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RebelDarlin · Joined: 06 Jul 2007 Posts: 1633 Location: Illinois

Fozzy wrote: Slimland wrote: I think the whole point here is the fact that it is there buisness.. Not any one elses but there's.. They have a right to refuse or accept..

This is correct, but it is also not very good business to turn away customers for BS reasons that they gave. This is no different than not doing business with blacks, Jews, Mexicans etc. It's just bad business.

But it's their business and they have the right to refuse service on whatever criteria they determine. If they run it into the ground by refusing to deal with things they find offensive, so be it!

Slimland wrote: A lot of people talk how religious people push there views on every one.

Because its just a fact...

Representing your beliefs is NOT the same as pushing them on someone. So far in this Country, we still all have the right to stand up for what we believe in.

Slimland wrote: And now we see the oposite. So how many wars will be faught in the name of Homosexuality..

That's just a foolish and insulting statement. but some people will say anything to try and make their points have some merit.

It isn't foolish or insulting. Any time one group, whatever it is, tries to force their beliefs or opinions on another group it eventually leads to a fight. The battlefield right now is the court system, and our freedom is the only casualty because the Courts are trying to dictate what our moral view should be.

RebelDarlin · Joined: 06 Jul 2007 Posts: 1633 Location: Illinois

[quote="Fozzy"] RebelDarlin wrote: Since most Christians aren't bound to Jewish Law, I still don't see how bringing that into this issue is relevant in any way.

Because it is the standard (tired) excuse almost always given and referred to in these cases?

Why does the photog need any excuse? That's what is sad, is that she feels the need to even have to use religion as an excuse. Why can't she just refuse to do something that she doesn't want to do?

RebelDarlin wrote: The issue at hand is a business owners right to refuse service, for whatever reason they see fit. Quit trying to turn it into something else.

Fozzy wrote: And I stated that I did not believe that the photog should be sued... just that the photog is almost certainly breaking more of these supposed religious rules than the people that they are complaining about as is the norm in these cases.

As is the human condition, we can only do what we can rationalize in our own minds. We are all imperfect. And I didn't see anything saying the photog was complaining about anyone, they just chose not to take the job.

RebelDarlin wrote: Hypocritcal??? How about the lesbian seekeing legal redress to assert that her right to not feel discriminated against is more important than the photographers right to not be involved in an ILLEGAL ceremony?

Fozzy wrote: Illegal? In what way? To whom? There is no legal ceremony going on here.. but there is blatant hypocrisy, which these supposed religious types so good at.

That's the point, there is no LEGAL ceremony going on. Same sex marriages are NOT LEGAL. Just because they call it a commitment ceremony doesn't change the fact that they are having a wedding. You try to tell them they aren't "married"! So why should a business owner be forced to provide any kind of service for it?

RebelDarlin wrote: I choose not to associate with drug users, is that discrimination? You bet it is!!!

Fozzy wrote: I'd love to hear how these people can be compared to drug dealers in any way. The point is that this photog is claiming that they cannot or will not provide a service based on their religious rules when everyone knows that it is pure 100% Bull.

The point is we all have the right to choose who and what we associate ourselves with. You belive that religion is 100% bull and that is your right, but that doesn't negate anyone elses right to believe differently! Until same sex marriages are made legal, they are ILLEGAL! And calling it a commitment ceremony doesn't change the fact that these couples believe themselves to be "married" and have and will continue to use them to get the same benefits that married couples have.

RebelDarlin wrote: Same sex mariages are not LEGAL so why should anyone be forced by the law to participate in them in any way?

Fozzy wrote: Photogs do not "participate" in anything. They take pictures. If the photog was a professional, they would have taken the gig.. Again, I do not think that this is an offense worth being sued over.. just another blatant case of "do as I say not as I do" hypocrisy.

They don't participate??? Some photogs "stage" the whole wedding to get the best shots. They have to understand what is going on in order to provide the best shots. So how would this photog know what was going on at a commitment ceremony? Oh yeah, it's just another wedding! and the photog didn't tell them to "do as I say" they simply chose not to be involved!

RebelDarlin wrote: Calling it a commitment ceremony is an attempt to subvert the law and no law abiding citizen should be forced to participate in it.

Fozzy wrote: Thats just convoluted nonsense. There is no legal ceremony going on here in the least.

Exactly!! It is a mockery of a legal ceremony! I have been to 2 "Commitment Ceremonies" in the last year. They are weddings! And just an FYI, around here at least they don't want anyone that they don't know at these ceremonies, including the photographer. As a matter of fact they try to keep them out of the public as much as possible. The general consensus of my Gay friends is that this Lesbian was out to make a point and probably called every photographer until she found one to make her point with. Don't be foolish enough to believe that there aren't Gay Activists who are just looking for a fight. The majority of them just want to be left alone to live their lives out of the spotlight.

Slimland · Joined: 27 Dec 2005 Posts: 1611 Location: Texas

Fozzy wrote: Slimland wrote: I think the whole point here is the fact that it is there buisness.. Not any one elses but there's.. They have a right to refuse or accept..

This is correct, but it is also not very good business to turn away customers for BS reasons that they gave. This is no different than not doing business with blacks, Jews, Mexicans etc. It's just bad business.

Slimland wrote: A lot of people talk how religious people push there views on every one.

Because its just a fact...

Slimland wrote: And now we see the oposite. So how many wars will be faught in the name of Homosexuality..

That's just a foolish and insulting statement. but some people will say anything to try and make their points have some merit.

Quote: This is correct, but it is also not very good business to turn away customers for BS reasons that they gave. This is no different than not doing business with blacks, Jews, Mexicans etc. It's just bad business.

Agreed But it is still there buisness.

Quote: Because its just a fact...

Maybe so on some points, but still no diffrent than you or I pushing what we believe in a discussion topic of someone of a diffrent faith!

Quote: That's just a foolish and insulting statement. but some people will say anything to try and make their points have some merit. [/quote]

How is it foolish Fozzy? What is the diffrence-Beside's the subject?
We have seen wars faught for Religion, Land, Disagreements etc.. I see no diffrence, Like I said a tool for man to use-- to impress there desire's upon another.. That is what War is all about.

Fozzy · Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 2460

Slimland wrote: How is it foolish Fozzy? What is the diffrence-Beside's the subject? We have seen wars faught for Religion, Land, Disagreements etc.. I see no diffrence, Like I said a tool for man to use-- to impress there desire's upon another.. That is what War is all about.

Trying to imply that homosexuality, has had, or could ever have the influence to start the actual wars and wholesale slaughter that religion has in the short history of mankind is almost as stupid as the buffet religious types that use it as a defense for their bigotry every single day. To imply this especially since the recent circumstances in my life was either horribly blatant stupidity or yet another classless low blow by someone who thinks it will bolster support by other buffet types.. Either of these is something that I have grown accustom to in this venue.

My son was supported and well loved by a few relatives and friends who happen to be homosexuals.. he was killed by the same logic and barbarism that the buffet religious types historically love to use to condone their actions.. Same behavior.

Have a good life... I hope your beliefs make you continue to feel superior to those you hate...

Karnajj · Joined: 01 Sep 2005 Posts: 1107 Location: Cincinnati

Fozzy wrote: Why do I have this strange feeling that this "christian" photog works on the Sabbath, wears makeup, and wears clothing made of mixed fabrics... I'll also bet that she has taken photos of illegitimate children and other couples who live in sin without ANY commitment to each other... More BS to gain attention. I do not think they should be sued.. they should just be ashamed of themselves as usual.

Typical knee-jerk Fozzy reaction.

How the hell do you know what went through their minds when they decided to turn down the job? Have you become a mind reader in your bitter old age? And since when did you become the goto guy on what the definition of "professional" is? Your constant attacks on Christianity border on the pathetic. You couldn't turn down an oppotunity to spew your hate any more than a drunk can turn down a drink. And what the f*ck is your point in saying that some gays and lesbians supported you in your recent troubles? Who cares? Is their support any better than someone else's? Are you so bitter that you won't even accept a kind word from someone because they are Christian? Pathetic.

Slimland · Joined: 27 Dec 2005 Posts: 1611 Location: Texas

Fozzy wrote: Slimland wrote: How is it foolish Fozzy? What is the diffrence-Beside's the subject? We have seen wars faught for Religion, Land, Disagreements etc.. I see no diffrence, Like I said a tool for man to use-- to impress there desire's upon another.. That is what War is all about.

Quote: Trying to imply that homosexuality, has had, or could ever have the influence to start the actual wars and wholesale slaughter that religion has in the short history of mankind is almost as stupid as the buffet religious types that use it as a defense for their bigotry every single day. To imply this especially since the recent circumstances in my life was either horribly blatant stupidity or yet another classless low blow by someone who thinks it will bolster support by other buffet types.. Either of these is something that I have grown accustom to in this venue.

My son was supported and well loved by a few relatives and friends who happen to be homosexuals.. he was killed by the same logic and barbarism that the buffet religious types historically love to use to condone their actions.. Same behavior.

Have a good life... I hope your beliefs make you continue to feel superior to those you hate...

Ok I have to edit this cause, I went to answer this and did, just in my mind.. Forgot to type it down, after hitting the submit button, realized I didn't say anything. :?

Quote: Trying to imply that homosexuality, has had, or could ever have the influence to start the actual wars and wholesale slaughter that religion has in the short history of mankind is almost as stupid as the buffet religious types that use it as a defense for their bigotry every single day.

My point Fozzy was it was there buisness.. You brought in the religious bigotry crap.. I was playing your game.. Just like WE used to do, I meant NO harm by it..
Maybe your not quit ready to be back in the debate area's! You seem to take this too personaly, and every comment on religion, polotics, or war. You seem to get a little testy and personal..

Quote: To imply this especially since the recent circumstances in my life was either horribly blatant stupidity or yet another classless low blow by someone who thinks it will bolster support by other buffet types.. Either of these is something that I have grown accustom to in this venue.

Case and point in the above.. Fozzy you know me better than that, You know that I like to argue and debate, wether I am the for or against..
This had NOTHING to do with you, or any of yours. It was for the sake of argument. So if you felt or where Offended, then I Apologize-- that was not my intention.

Quote: My son was supported and well loved by a few relatives and friends who happen to be homosexuals.. he was killed by the same logic and barbarism that the buffet religious types historically love to use to condone their actions.. Same behavior.

Again Both points have been proved, a tool for man to use..
As for Homosexuals you and I both have been down this road of discussion. I have Nothing against them, it is there life.. I might not agree with there lifestyle, but I do not judge them. AGAIN it was for the sake of argument. And Again maybe your not ready to argue yet. Your taking it personaly.

Quote: Have a good life... I hope your beliefs make you continue to feel superior to those you hate..

This is what sums it up Fozzy.. I don't hate, you read into it and took it personaly.. For what 3 almost 4 years we have talked and argued, Never in my remembrance have you or I took it personaly.. Why Now? No need to answer I know why.. So I do not hold it against you, I know your heart achs, and that my friend I take into consideration. Fozzy again I apologize for offending you, it was not my intention.. I was just doing what I do, fishing for my fish.. You just got caught, and IMOP wernt ready..

Sincerely
Slimland

RebelDarlin · Joined: 06 Jul 2007 Posts: 1633 Location: Illinois

Fozzy wrote: Slimland wrote: How is it foolish Fozzy? What is the diffrence-Beside's the subject? We have seen wars faught for Religion, Land, Disagreements etc.. I see no diffrence, Like I said a tool for man to use-- to impress there desire's upon another.. That is what War is all about.

Trying to imply that homosexuality, has had, or could ever have the influence to start the actual wars and wholesale slaughter that religion has in the short history of mankind is almost as stupid as the buffet religious types that use it as a defense for their bigotry every single day. To imply this especially since the recent circumstances in my life was either horribly blatant stupidity or yet another classless low blow by someone who thinks it will bolster support by other buffet types.. Either of these is something that I have grown accustom to in this venue.

My son was supported and well loved by a few relatives and friends who happen to be homosexuals.. he was killed by the same logic and barbarism that the buffet religious types historically love to use to condone their actions.. Same behavior.

Have a good life... I hope your beliefs make you continue to feel superior to those you hate...

Talk about low blows! Fozzy you started this and now you're going to play the 'my son just died' card. That's a low blow! No one here said anything that would warrant that last attack.

I don't know how far out in the sticks you live, but in Chicago hate crimes against Gays and Lesbians are an almost daily occurence. It is a war! And my homosexual friends don't appreciate the activists such as this lesbian, adding any more fuel to the fire. It's stupid and selfish. Her demanding that photographer provide a service for her commitment ceremony is no different than somone demanding she go back in the closet. If she wants the right to live her life as she chooses she should allow other people to do the same! There is a vast difference between equal treatment and special treatment and using being homosexual to force people to do something against their beliefs is just as wrong as any other group insisting everyone live their way. And that includes you!

And when did the current war become a religious war? I must have missed that news brief! I also didn't see anyone except you say anything about hating anyone.

This discussion was about legal rights, you're the one making blanket accusations.

Twilight Flyer · Joined: 13 Nov 2002 Posts: 5654

Quote: It isn't foolish or insulting. Any time one group, whatever it is, tries to force their beliefs or opinions on another group it eventually leads to a fight. The battlefield right now is the court system, and our freedom is the only casualty because the Courts are trying to dictate what our moral view should be.

On a lighter note, I must admit that the thought of the 69th Gay Brigade, dressed up in pink camos and carrying loaded Gucci man-purses, got me to chuckling.

:lol:

On a more serious note, everybody take a step back and a couple deep breaths. No need to let things get personal.

RebelDarlin · Joined: 06 Jul 2007 Posts: 1633 Location: Illinois

Maybe we should just have the Fab 5 come in and redecorate in a Zen theme, just to make everyone relax a bit more. :wink:

Slimland · Joined: 27 Dec 2005 Posts: 1611 Location: Texas

Twilight Flyer wrote: Quote: It isn't foolish or insulting. Any time one group, whatever it is, tries to force their beliefs or opinions on another group it eventually leads to a fight. The battlefield right now is the court system, and our freedom is the only casualty because the Courts are trying to dictate what our moral view should be.

On a lighter note, I must admit that the thought of the 69th Gay Brigade, dressed up in pink camos and carrying loaded Gucci man-purses, got me to chuckling.

:lol:

On a more serious note, everybody take a step back and a couple deep breaths. No need to let things get personal.

That would be an interesting site. :shock:

I dont' know if it was all meant to be personal, But givin the circumstances-- I understand and do not hold it against Fozzy. He IMOP is still a friend that I can disagree with, and Hope when time heals the wounds, he comes back to play.!

Slimland

RebelDarlin · Joined: 06 Jul 2007 Posts: 1633 Location: Illinois

Slim,

Losing a child is one of the hardest things any one can ever go through. You lose a part of yourself. Your world is turned upside down and inside out and it's hard to understand why the rest of the world is just going on as if nothing happened. Things that you wouldn' think twice about before, set off a reaction that sometimes, even you don't understand.

I hope at some level Fozzy knows this was never a personal attack against him or his family and friends. And most especially not about his son. I don't think there is anyone on this board that would sink that low, especially not you.

This one involved the 2 big No No's, religion and politics and those are topics that people very often take very personally, even when it isn't meant that way.

Reb

Slimland · Joined: 27 Dec 2005 Posts: 1611 Location: Texas

Quote: RebelDarlin wrote: Slim,

Losing a child is one of the hardest things any one can ever go through. You lose a part of yourself. Your world is turned upside down and inside out and it's hard to understand why the rest of the world is just going on as if nothing happened. Things that you wouldn' think twice about before, set off a reaction that sometimes, even you don't understand.

I hope at some level Fozzy knows this was never a personal attack against him or his family and friends. And most especially not about his son. I don't think there is anyone on this board that would sink that low, especially not you.

This one involved the 2 big No No's, religion and politics and those are topics that people very often take very personally, even when it isn't meant that way.

Reb

I can understand Fozzy real well in this area-- I lost one of my Twin Boys a month before he turned 3 years old.. Though it was his heart and not war, none the less it hurt. So my prayers to Fozzy and his family. That is one reason I didnt' take it personaly. The other is I think Fozzy has argued with me enough to understand me. :wink:

golfhobo · Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:38 pm Post subject:

AW.... what the heck... I'll jump in here! :roll:

edited.

Slimland · Joined: 27 Dec 2005 Posts: 1611 Location: Texas

Quote: golfhobo wrote: AW.... what the heck... I'll jump in here! :roll:

edited.

Well what did you feel bad for that post? I read it-- I thought it was a little harsh towards Fozzy, even for you! You musta been in a mood, BUT I don't think you should delete it, but fix it a little. :wink:

RebelDarlin · Joined: 06 Jul 2007 Posts: 1633 Location: Illinois

Slimland wrote: Quote: RebelDarlin wrote: Slim,

Losing a child is one of the hardest things any one can ever go through. You lose a part of yourself. Your world is turned upside down and inside out and it's hard to understand why the rest of the world is just going on as if nothing happened. Things that you wouldn' think twice about before, set off a reaction that sometimes, even you don't understand.

I hope at some level Fozzy knows this was never a personal attack against him or his family and friends. And most especially not about his son. I don't think there is anyone on this board that would sink that low, especially not you.

This one involved the 2 big No No's, religion and politics and those are topics that people very often take very personally, even when it isn't meant that way.

Reb

I can understand Fozzy real well in this area-- I lost one of my Twin Boys a month before he turned 3 years old.. Though it was his heart and not war, none the less it hurt. So my prayers to Fozzy and his family. That is one reason I didnt' take it personaly. The other is I think Fozzy has argued with me enough to understand me. :wink:

I understand too, I lost my youngest son at the age of 7 weeks to SIDS. He would be 20 now, and if he followed family tradition he would probably be in Iraq serving his Country. All things happen for a reason, whether we understand it or not.

Reb

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