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Westcoast driver
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:11 pm Post subject: How to interpret brake test |
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I confess that I've been driving for years and I still have questions about brake tests.
I have a question about the pre-trip air leakage test. Let's say I've got the system fully charged (~120 psi), I shut off the engine, and apply the brakes. The air pressure drops from 120 psi down to 85 psi, and stabilizes there. Is that when I start timing the system for air loss? Is it okay that the air pressure dropped down to 85 pounds after I applied the brakes? (A 35 pound air drop before "stabilizing"). |
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Orangetxguy
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 1471
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: How to interpret brake test |
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Westcoast driver wrote: I confess that I've been driving for years and I still have questions about brake tests.
I have a question about the pre-trip air leakage test. Let's say I've got the system fully charged (~120 psi), I shut off the engine, and apply the brakes. The air pressure drops from 120 psi down to 85 psi, and stabilizes there. Is that when I start timing the system for air loss? Is it okay that the air pressure dropped down to 85 pounds after I applied the brakes? (A 35 pound air drop before "stabilizing").
A 35# drop is pretty drastic. Should only be 5-10#. Is it possible that you have bad gladhand gaskets?? If they are in so-so shape will allow air out, until all the pods have finished moving, then will seal off. |
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Westcoast driver
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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Orangetxguy,
I want to thank you for your answer. Your explanation makes very good sense to me. Sometimes it seems that the simplest explanations are the ones that I overlook.
I'll tell you a little more about why I asked. I work as a "transfer driver" -- transfering garbage from a garbage "transfer station" to a landfill. We pull a 48-foot tarped van -- with a walking floor that walks the garbage out.
I drove the "spare truck" (The truck with the problems) for three days, and after dumping at the landfill air would leak out of my brakes as I went downhill. If I stomped the brakes to the floor then they would stop losing air. Also the air dryer doesn't work well on that truck and I would stop and bleed the water out of the tanks whenever the brakes started to act up (I also bled the air tanks in the morning and evenings too).
Last Wednesday, when I did the pre-trip in the morning, the brakes didn't pass the air loss test. So I bled the tanks again, checked the gladhands (Took them off and put them back on), and charged the system back up. This time the brakes held air -- but they would lose 30 to 35 lbs of pressure before they would stabilize.
And the truck has other problems. It's a Volvo and it has electrical problems in the dash console -- the lights don't work and sometimes the guages don't work either. And when I performed the low air warning test the buzzer didn't come on. So I "failed" the brakes on my vehicle inspection.
And an annoying but less dangerous problem was that the backing horn and backing lights were somehow wired to the brakes. When the brakes were applied you could hear a "Beep..beep..beep.." and the backing lights would come on. And of course when this would happen at a stop light people would see the backing lights come on and hear the horn -- and they would frantically try and get around me. I figured that sooner or later I was going to get a ticket for the white backing lights shining back in peoples faces when I was going downhill on the freeway and putting on the brakes.
So on Wednesday, when it started to rain, and I knew I was going to be in heavy traffic I told my boss that I would rather take the day off than drive that truck. He told me angrily to park it and go home. I did.
Then I got a call at home and I was told that I was suspended for a week, without pay, for having refused to drive the truck. They checked out the truck and as far as they were concerned it passed. And they argued that the dash of a Volvo is a single unit and they would have to replace the whole thing to fix the problems, and since it was just a "spare truck" they weren't going to spend the money on it. Also when they did the brake test they were able to get a red light to come on for the low air warning. Maybe that was my mistake and I missed that but I think that all of the other problems justified my asking not to drive it.
I would have quit if it weren't for the fact that this job has been really easy reliable work and this is my third year doing it. I've been driving for over thirteen years and this is one of the better jobs I've had. And it sounds like the brake problems might be fixed very easily and cheaply.
The brand new Volvo I had been driving was being worked on because the pump that ran the walking floor wasn't working right. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they have that fixed and I can drive that truck when I finally get to go back to work tomorrow. |
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gmh
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 391
Location: Southern Maryland
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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Screw that. I'd run from that frickin' company. They sat you at home for a week because you didn't want to drive an unsafe POS? You do know that if those brakes cease working on the road, it is your ass on the line as well as their's, especially if you noticed something wrong?
I understand you have to eat, but I'd be looking for a new employer. |
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lurchgs
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 83
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| could you run the truck by an inspection site and get it declared OOS? Just curious |
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jorlee
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 101
Location: Scranton, North Dakota
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Westcoast driver"]
And an annoying but less dangerous problem was that the backing horn and backing lights were somehow wired to the brakes. When the brakes were applied you could hear a "Beep..beep..beep.." and the backing lights would come on. And of course when this would happen at a stop light people would see the backing lights come on and hear the horn -- and they would frantically try and get around me. I figured that sooner or later I was going to get a ticket for the white backing lights shining back in peoples faces when I was going downhill on the freeway and putting on the brakes.
quote]
Does that sound awfully familiar. Beeping with brakes, turnsignals, and the headlights. Took a while to find the problem since all the lights would work right, even though it would beep, with them. Took me a few weeks to find, due to it coming and going. |
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bikerboy
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 195
Location: Southern Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| That problem with the backup buzzer coming on with the brake lights, sounds like a bad ground problem somewhere in the wiring. |
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mdgardner963
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 156
Location: California
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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Even more over the volvo's has a short in the dash they were all recalled also if you have that big drop i would think of a bad pod if the rubber glad hands are all ok. ( i carry rubber spares) If a company made you take a week off because of a problem they may be in vioation of dot rules i would check it out.
Many times i stood up and called a POS a POS and refused to drive it. Most not all will fix it and some will even be happy you found a problem.
I drove with Mike Lowery for about 2 weeks befor i told them were they could put there truck.. to many good companies out there OTR and Local to put up with bad equipment..
Sometimes you have to teach a lession to them, Its an excellent idea to have a dot bear or station look over junk.. Tell them everything you told the company and they will give the company greef and not implicate you in the process. :twisted: |
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mdgardner963
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 156
Location: California
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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Even more over the volvo's has a short in the dash they were all recalled also if you have that big drop i would think of a bad pod if the rubber glad hand. ( i carry rubber spares) If a company made you take a week off because of a problem they may be in vioation of dot rules i would check it out.
Many times i stood up and called a POS a POS and refused to drive it. Most not all will fix it and some will even be happy you found a problem.
I drove with Mike Lowery for about 2 weeks befor i told them were they could put there truck.. to many good companies out there OTR and Local to put up with bad equipment..
Sometimes you have to teach a lession to them, Its an excellent idea to have a dot bear or station look over junk.. Tell them everything you told the company and they will give the company greef and not implicate you in the process. :twisted:
the Bottom line is you are the driver and the one who will do the time no matter what else you are responable.. |
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kc0iv
Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 1084
Location: Kansas City, MO
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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mdgardner963 wrote: Even more over the volvo's has a short in the dash they were all recalled also if you have that big drop i would think of a bad pod if the rubber glad hand. ( i carry rubber spares) If a company made you take a week off because of a problem they may be in vioation of dot rules i would check it out.
Many times i stood up and called a POS a POS and refused to drive it. Most not all will fix it and some will even be happy you found a problem.
I drove with Mike Lowery for about 2 weeks befor i told them were they could put there truck.. to many good companies out there OTR and Local to put up with bad equipment..
Sometimes you have to teach a lession to them, Its an excellent idea to have a dot bear or station look over junk.. Tell them everything you told the company and they will give the company greef and not implicate you in the process. :twisted:
the Bottom line is you are the driver and the one who will do the time no matter what else you are responable..
If a D.O.T. inspector inspects your rig they will fill out an inspection report and your name will be on the report along with either/or tractor number/ trailer number. In addition what they find the D.O.T. may put you out-of-service,until the repairs have been complete, or they may simply give the company "X" number of days to make the repairs and send them a copy showing the repairs have been made.
Plus just because you claim the company has poor equipment doesn't mean D.O.T. is going to do a site inspection or increase truck inspections at the scale. It doesn't work that way.
kc0iv |
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mdgardner963
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 156
Location: California
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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kc0iv wrote: mdgardner963 wrote: Even more over the volvo's has a short in the dash they were all recalled also if you have that big drop i would think of a bad pod if the rubber glad hand. ( i carry rubber spares) If a company made you take a week off because of a problem they may be in vioation of dot rules i would check it out.
Many times i stood up and called a POS a POS and refused to drive it. Most not all will fix it and some will even be happy you found a problem.
I drove with Mike Lowery for about 2 weeks befor i told them were they could put there truck.. to many good companies out there OTR and Local to put up with bad equipment..
Sometimes you have to teach a lession to them, Its an excellent idea to have a dot bear or station look over junk.. Tell them everything you told the company and they will give the company greef and not implicate you in the process. :twisted:
the Bottom line is you are the driver and the one who will do the time no matter what else you are responable..
If a D.O.T. inspector inspects your rig they will fill out an inspection report and your name will be on the report along with either/or tractor number/ trailer number. In addition what they find the D.O.T. may put you out-of-service,until the repairs have been complete, or they may simply give the company "X" number of days to make the repairs and send them a copy showing the repairs have been made.
Plus just because you claim the company has poor equipment doesn't mean D.O.T. is going to do a site inspection or increase truck inspections at the scale. It doesn't work that way.
kc0iv
I think you may have mis understood what i was saying.. I ment if the company is some how punishing you for not driving the bad equipment then you may have some recourse. IN any event the driver is always ALWAYS responsable for any defects. All i was saying if you flag down a dot inspector and tell him the problems you are having then at least you might not get the ticket.. And more over if your not sure then at least you have some defense better then none at all... |
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kc0iv
Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 1084
Location: Kansas City, MO
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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mdgardner963 wrote: kc0iv wrote: mdgardner963 wrote: Even more over the volvo's has a short in the dash they were all recalled also if you have that big drop i would think of a bad pod if the rubber glad hand. ( i carry rubber spares) If a company made you take a week off because of a problem they may be in vioation of dot rules i would check it out.
Many times i stood up and called a POS a POS and refused to drive it. Most not all will fix it and some will even be happy you found a problem.
I drove with Mike Lowery for about 2 weeks befor i told them were they could put there truck.. to many good companies out there OTR and Local to put up with bad equipment..
Sometimes you have to teach a lession to them, Its an excellent idea to have a dot bear or station look over junk.. Tell them everything you told the company and they will give the company greef and not implicate you in the process. :twisted:
the Bottom line is you are the driver and the one who will do the time no matter what else you are responable..
If a D.O.T. inspector inspects your rig they will fill out an inspection report and your name will be on the report along with either/or tractor number/ trailer number. In addition what they find the D.O.T. may put you out-of-service,until the repairs have been complete, or they may simply give the company "X" number of days to make the repairs and send them a copy showing the repairs have been made.
Plus just because you claim the company has poor equipment doesn't mean D.O.T. is going to do a site inspection or increase truck inspections at the scale. It doesn't work that way.
kc0iv
I think you may have mis understood what i was saying.. I ment if the company is some how punishing you for not driving the bad equipment then you may have some recourse. IN any event the driver is always ALWAYS responsable for any defects. All i was saying if you flag down a dot inspector and tell him the problems you are having then at least you might not get the ticket.. And more over if your not sure then at least you have some defense better then none at all...
I agree the DRIVER is responsible for DRIVING a defective piece of equipment. His/Her only recourse is to NOT drive the equipment. Once he/she drives off the lot any action is his/hers. Worst case would be to have an accident. The driver will receive the ticket. Not the company.
Second would be be placed out-of-service. Where the driver gets to honor of setting at some scale waiting for a service truck to come and make the repairs or for a tow truck to haul it to the repair shop. In either case the driver lost money. And the company more than likely issue the driver a service failure.
As I said before if D.O.T. does an inspection and finds a defect he/she is going to issue a ticket. And if it bad enough the driver will get the honor of paying a nice fine. The ticket goes to the driver not the company. It will be up to the company if they want to reimburse the driver. In some states the ticket has to be paid before the driver can leave the inspection location.
And you won't have any excuses once you leave the lot.
I know this as a fact. I had a ticket for a trailer I was pulling (I was an O/O) but I was pulling a company trailer. The company said they would take care of it. About a two month later I had the highway patrol show up at my house with a warrant for my arrest. I was taken to the court house and had to pay the fine before I could leave.
As I said before. The driver has only one recourse is to NOT drive the equipment.
kc0iv |
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mdgardner963
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 156
Location: California
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: As I said before if D.O.T. does an inspection and finds a defect he/she is going to issue a ticket. And if it bad enough the driver will get the honor of paying a nice fine. The ticket goes to the driver not the company. It will be up to the company if they want to reimburse the driver. In some states the ticket has to be paid before the driver can leave the inspection location.
And you won't have any excuses once you leave the lot.
I know this as a fact. I had a ticket for a trailer I was pulling (I was an O/O) but I was pulling a company trailer. The company said they would take care of it. About a two month later I had the highway patrol show up at my house with a warrant for my arrest. I was taken to the court house and had to pay the fine before I could leave.
As I said before. The driver has only one recourse is to NOT drive the equipment.
kc0iv[/color] [/quote]
Not true if the company has owner responsabilty they get the ticket your off the hook.. When i drove for Mike Willams fuel they had one i never got a ticket for anything at all.. so it really depends on what who and how.. I have went to a scale house and told them what was happening at one company i worked the company got a ticket i got a big thank you for it. Never the less anything that happens in an unsafe truck is the drivers fault once he/she moves it.. I do agree with that heck i even watched one guy call the highway patrol they cam and did a complete inspection in the yard.. Thats why i said Get a DOT bear one that drives call him in and have a chat.
to many people drive and do understand bottom line its always the drivers fault once moved.. There are many many many ways to get around driving the equipment even better yet even more ways to get a bad company in trouble. Class of 1972. :twisted:
Think outside the box... I do agree with what you said but i do disagree on the way to get a problem solved there has to be recourse.
For that driver listen if the company is treating you badly pm me i got tons of connections i can get you a decent job. I just know people i do not recruit or even want to never accepted any money for helping as well or even refering. Personaly i would be running from a company who did not care about the equipment.. But thats not to say things just get missed.... :twisted: |
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