Truck Driving Jobs

PorkChop81 · Joined: 29 Jul 2007 Posts: 33 Location: Virginia

Ok, I drive a dully w/ a 50ft car trailer. I make runs from Jersey to FL and back a couple times a month. I have a buddy that wants to get into this biz and I'm wondering if he's riding/driving how we can log this? Currently I log ALL non on/driving hrs as OFF, never any sleeper. So far I haven't had any issues or questions with this. BUT...being that there would be another driver, could I still log OFF even when the truck is moving with him driving? I'm sure this is going to peak some smartass comments and I know better, but I had to ask. Just wondering with 2 people, if you could still simply log off duty with both people and be ok!

Thanks for the readying yet another dumb question!

chop

VitoCorleone99 · Joined: 23 May 2006 Posts: 352 Location: Detroit

If you're in a hotel or something, you would both be showing off duty, but if one driver shows driving the other would have to account for being in the truck. If you're in the truck, you are either driving or in the sleeper. Those are your only two options, according to the law.

What can you get away with? I don't have a clue. Maybe some team drivers can help there, but the regs are very clear on a team driver riding in the passenger seat.

Bandit102 · Joined: 22 Nov 2006 Posts: 242

I pulled a 3 car trailer with a crewcab ford for a couple of years. You'd better not let the DOT know if you are catching your naps in that truck. Its not legal. There HAS to be a sleeper with certain dimensions, mattress, etc. in order to log sleeper. You CANNOT team a truck with no sleeper. If one driver is not in the SLEEPER, he's on duty as long as that truck is moving, no matter who's driving it.

Uturn2001 · Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:42 pm Post subject:

Quote: If you're in the truck, you are either driving or in the sleeper. Those are your only two options, according to the law.

Sorry, but you are only partially correct. You can also log On duty Not driving. This is what you are suppose to log if you are riding in the passenger seat.

Uturn2001 · Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:43 pm Post subject:

FMCSA REGS SLEEPER BERTHS

VitoCorleone99 · Joined: 23 May 2006 Posts: 352 Location: Detroit

Uturn2001 wrote: Quote: If you're in the truck, you are either driving or in the sleeper. Those are your only two options, according to the law.

Sorry, but you are only partially correct. You can also log On duty Not driving. This is what you are suppose to log if you are riding in the passenger seat. I meant to say "either working or in the sleeper." Correction noted.

Cat6869 · Joined: 10 Nov 2007 Posts: 101

PorkChop81 wrote: Ok, I drive a dully w/ a 50ft car trailer. I make runs from Jersey to FL and back a couple times a month. I have a buddy that wants to get into this biz and I'm wondering if he's riding/driving how we can log this? Currently I log ALL non on/driving hrs as OFF, never any sleeper. So far I haven't had any issues or questions with this. BUT...being that there would be another driver, could I still log OFF even when the truck is moving with him driving? I'm sure this is going to peak some smartass comments and I know better, but I had to ask. Just wondering with 2 people, if you could still simply log off duty with both people and be ok!

Thanks for the readying yet another dumb question!

chop

If you are on the truck you are either in the sleeper, driving or on-duty not driving.

1) if you are off duty you are NOT on the TRUCK @ all@
2) if you are in the sleeper you are in the sleeper (does not mean you are sleeping, just the fact your body is in the sleeper.
3) if you are behind the wheel, you are on line 3 "driving".
4) if you are sitting in the passenger seat while "someone" is driving the truck, you are on-duty not driving.

If you are training and the driver is behind the wheel you "must" log line 4 time.

I hope this helps somewhat?

headborg · Joined: 06 Nov 2007 Posts: 1105

you can be a team co-driver and be riding in the passenger seat and logging -- Off duty; there's no rule preventing this. But, this is a quick way to end up with ticket for --false logging. Example- you roll thru a scale house and you're showing as being "in the sleeper"- but they see you in the "jump seat"---there's a quick ticket. With the new HOS rules- this could become a new "hot topic". Or, if your co-driver gets pulled over for something- you need to be - in the right area of the truck- because your log book is required to be current to the "last change of duty status"-- this includes coming out of the sleeper berth and jumping in passenger seat. Only a trainer performing
"training duties" is required to log "on duty- not driving' when in the jump seat.

VitoCorleone99 · Joined: 23 May 2006 Posts: 352 Location: Detroit

headborg wrote: you can be a team co-driver and be riding in the passenger seat and logging -- Off duty; there's no rule preventing this. But, this is a quick way to end up with ticket for --false logging. Example- you roll thru a scale house and you're showing as being "in the sleeper"- but they see you in the "jump seat"---there's a quick ticket. With the new HOS rules- this could become a new "hot topic". Or, if your co-driver gets pulled over for something- you need to be - in the right area of the truck- because your log book is required to be current to the "last change of duty status"-- this includes coming out of the sleeper berth and jumping in passenger seat. Only a trainer performing
"training duties" is required to log "on duty- not driving' when in the jump seat.
No, actually you can't log "off duty" if you're in the truck.

Found here.

Quote: Question 13: What is the duty status of a co-driver (truck) who is riding seated next to the driver?

Guidance: On-duty (not driving).

Pursuant to this definition:

Quote: On duty time shall include:...

(4) All time, other than driving time, in or upon any commercial motor vehicle except time spent resting in a sleeper berth;

headborg · Joined: 06 Nov 2007 Posts: 1105

VitoCorleone99 wrote: headborg wrote: you can be a team co-driver and be riding in the passenger seat and logging -- Off duty; there's no rule preventing this. But, this is a quick way to end up with ticket for --false logging. Example- you roll thru a scale house and you're showing as being "in the sleeper"- but they see you in the "jump seat"---there's a quick ticket. With the new HOS rules- this could become a new "hot topic". Or, if your co-driver gets pulled over for something- you need to be - in the right area of the truck- because your log book is required to be current to the "last change of duty status"-- this includes coming out of the sleeper berth and jumping in passenger seat. Only a trainer performing
"training duties" is required to log "on duty- not driving' when in the jump seat.
No, actually you can't log "off duty" if you're in the truck.

Found here.

Quote: Question 13: What is the duty status of a co-driver (truck) who is riding seated next to the driver?

Guidance: On-duty (not driving).

Pursuant to this definition:

Quote: On duty time shall include:...

(4) All time, other than driving time, in or upon any commercial motor vehicle except time spent resting in a sleeper berth;

thanks for the update; Guidance--- times chance.

so; The driver that once challenged it- claiming:

395.8
(1) OFF-DUTY. Except for time spent resting in a sleeper berth, a continuous line shall be drawn between the appropritate time markers to record the period(s) of time when the driver is not on duty, is not required to be in readiness to work, or is not under any responsiblity for performing work.

That doesn't work anymore?

or the another driver who successfully argued the passenger seat was part of the Sleeper under 393.76(b)(2)?
.....A sleeper berth installed on or after January 1, 1953 must be located IN THE CAB or immediately adjacent to the cab....

See, that used to be the only way you could stagger back from the Bar---drunk off your ass and climb into your truck--the cops would set and watch for the dumb drivers who just partied at Southern Comfort--Conley, Ga and climbed into their trucks Driver Seat---because the rules used to read---the driver's seat was the only seat that's ON DUTY or preparing to be Driving. The rule of that day was always climb into your truck--drunk on the passenger side.

Also, unless they've revised the definition of "on duty"---does it still read?:

395.2 On Duty Time means all time from the time a driver begins to work(meaning the start of his/her 14hour 'clock')or is required to be in readiness to work until the time the driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work......
If, you haven't started your 14hour work clock or 'shift'--you haven't came on duty---yet.

I was reading the other day where teams were asking DOT this very question; about stopping at a rest area---if it interruped the co-driver's 8hr
sleeper berth break( wife needed to pee ) the DOT stated the rules were
not that Draconian and they understood that from time to time people do come out of the sleeper for potty breaks, etc. They also asked if, co-driver could log combination off-duty/ sleeper for a full 10hrs( while the truck was moving) and DOT said yes!

and last but not least; the OP stated he was driving a duelly pickup truck pulling a car hauling trailer.......unless the combination exceeds 26,000 pounds--he's not even defined as a CMV-----and doesn't need a CDL (there's still a big gray area here)
since there's no need for CDL's--- I'd just say he's your cousin or brother-in law and is just along for the ride.

VitoCorleone99 · Joined: 23 May 2006 Posts: 352 Location: Detroit

Do I think you're in a "state of readiness" for work if you're in the passenger seat jamming some Creedence? No, I don't think so. Common sense would suggest not. Common sense also has little to do with the laws that regulate us.

The rule does contain the text that you quoted, and the definitions also contain various details including item #4. While I'm sure we're all in favor of finding gray areas when they suit us, that definition leaves no gray area. The definitions are inclusive, so failing to meet one definition of "on duty" doesn't exempt a driver who meets a different definition of the same term. The guidance takes it one step further and spells out the answer in no uncertain terms.

Does that mean you get a ticket? Roll the dice if you want to, I suppose. I live in a world where 99 out of 100 cops wouldn't care, but the one cop who checks my log will have just caught his wife screwing his brother the night before he stops me.

I won't even pretend to know what a truck, a 50' trailer, and a set of cars would weigh. If there's no CDL and no log involved, then I guess the whole conversation could be irrelevant. Concerning team drivers that do keep logs, however, it wouldn't be too smart to log something in a manner that is explicitly forbidden by the regulations.

headborg · Joined: 06 Nov 2007 Posts: 1105

Vito, I do agree- the "guidance" question #13 clearly spells out a very basic situation- based on a very simple question. If the question had involved more detail---like the 2 "guidance" questions involving communication with the driver during his rest period by various electronic means- the answer might have been very different.

I would go by the rule exactly as it's written.

example 1; a team driving a CMV with sleeper- one driver drives 30 minutes to the next rest area- then they switch off, and that driver jumps into the passanger seat- and they keep switching off every hour or so (I know this is a stupid scenario) but; in this case both drivers have came on-duty and now they both would have to log on-duty, not driving each time they hit the passenger seat.

example 2;
a team driving a cmv with sleeper- one driver relieves the other at the end of her 11 hrs driving; that driver goes "off duty"( maybe at the T/S first- then straight to the sleeper) the truck rolls 4 hrs down the road--- the co-driver wakes up and wants a cig and sandwitch-- she makes 2 and jumps in the passenger seat. That can't count as "on duty"---
this is the exact thing Teams were up in arms over----a stupid rule--that would completely make a team operated truck- one driver a prisoner in the sleeper for 8hrs straight.

VitoCorleone99 · Joined: 23 May 2006 Posts: 352 Location: Detroit

It's certainly not a sensible rule, but "exactly as it is written" includes the definitions, which are a part of the regulation (as opposed to the guidance). The definition is black and white.

The driver in example 2 would be best advised to log sleeper berth the whole time in order to comply with the regulation. As a practical matter, one could explain that she left the sleeper to have a sandwich for a few minutes and intended to return to the sleeper in short order. One could not explain away a log entry showing a status (off duty) that is in direct violation of the rules as they are written.

Either way, it makes no difference to me. I take my breaks wherever and whenever I want to. Leave that team stuff for people with a real work ethic.

headborg · Joined: 06 Nov 2007 Posts: 1105

well If you wanted to complicate the situation- how about this one:

Team drivers driving a CMV- bobtail the truck to Wal-mart for "personal use"- the "10-ton taxi" rule, now the DRIVER of the truck by Law can Log-
OFF DUTY while driving the tractor---now, under that narrow interpatation of the rule- if the co-driver was riding 'shot-gun' they would have to be logging-
"on duty, not driving" while the driver is OFF DUTY-----

see how that's a laugh.

But, you're right about best practice is to always show 'in-sleeper' when not driving and the truck is moving. Any other would mess up the 8hr sleeper berth provision.

VitoCorleone99 · Joined: 23 May 2006 Posts: 352 Location: Detroit

I'd actually be interested to hear their take on that one. Given the FMCSA's proclivity to make simple things complicated, they would likely say that the truck in that instance is not considered "moving" even as it rolls down the highway. That's about as logical as anything else they do.

Edit to add a more likely line from the lawyers:
The truck, as a "personal conveyance," is no longer a CMV until its use as a personal coveyance has concluded. Therefore neither driver is "in or upon a CMV."

I think I could be a fed if I had to. :lol:

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