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tracer
Joined: 17 Mar 2007
Posts: 232
Location: Guelph, ON, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:04 pm Post subject: Over-sensitive steering |
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I know a few people brought up steering problems but I'm at a loss with my 2004 International 9400. It drives great on a perfectly straight road, but as soon as the road surface tilts (like when you're in a curb lane), the truck just steers itself in the direction of the tilt. Most of the time when I'm in the curb lane I have to keep my steering wheel turned to the left. If I take my hands off, the steering wheel returns to the central position and the truck starts drifting towards the ditch.
"Your alignment is perfect", I was told more than once by technicians in various Ontario, Canada shops. I did all the axles twice, plus had caster adjusted on top of that... all to no avail. The tires are fairly new (installed them in June 2007), and I just had the truck thoroughly checked out for wear and tear in kingpins, tie rods, and improper tightening of wheel bearings. I was also told the steering box had defects.
What can cause this over-sentivity of the steering? I personally tend to think it's either the steering box or the wrong size tires (the original tires were low profile 295s; and now I have larger diameter 22.5).
I called a couple of shops for a quote on a steering box and it's 700 bucks minimum with the exchange.... plus labor.
Do you guys think replacing the gear box can help make the steering normal again or would it be just a waste of money? The truck has only 219,000 miles and the steering box is Sheppard M100.
Thanks! |
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COLT
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 576
Location: FT ST JOHN
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:29 am Post subject: Re: Over-sensitive steering |
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tracer wrote: I'm at a loss with my 2004 International 9400. It drives great on a perfectly straight road, but as soon as the road surface tilts (like when you're in a curb lane), the truck just steers itself in the direction of the tilt. Most of the time when I'm in the curb lane I have to keep my steering wheel turned to the left. If I take my hands off, the steering wheel returns to the central position and the truck starts drifting towards the ditch.
Why do you think this is abnormal ? |
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nickbtubas
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 608
Location: Kansas Flatlands
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| sounds normal to me. the weight of the truck is just following where gravity is pulling. and in this case its going down towards the curb. you should only test the alignment on a straight, FLAT and LEVEL roadway. |
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allan5oh
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2233
Location: jackassville (winnipeg, mb)
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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It's possible your steering box is adjusted too loose.
Is there a lot of free play in the steering shaft? |
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tracer
Joined: 17 Mar 2007
Posts: 232
Location: Guelph, ON, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:43 pm Post subject: Re: Over-sensitive steering |
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COLT wrote: Why do you think this is abnormal ?
Because this is not the only truck I ever drove. I have something to compare to.
nickbtubas wrote: ... sounds normal to me. the weight of the truck is just following where gravity is pulling
that's why they invented "caster" - to prevent the truck from being unruly on the road. i talked to company drivers in the yard who drive the same model (International 9400 or 9200) and mostly people said their trucks didn't pull to the side as bad as mine.
allan5oh wrote: It's possible your steering box is adjusted too loose. Is there a lot of free play in the steering shaft?
I'd say - yes. With the engine off, I can grab the steering shaft near the steering box and it turns back and forth quite a bit. I can even see the wheels to start turning. On my previous truck (Freightliner Columbia) I don't think I was able to turn the wheels with my bare hands when the engine was off. My steering box (Sheppard M-100) is not adjustable. |
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allan5oh
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2233
Location: jackassville (winnipeg, mb)
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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Well what I'm talking about is looseness between you're steering wheel and tires. If you can move the tires easily.. probably not it.
How does the truck do in ruts? |
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tracer
Joined: 17 Mar 2007
Posts: 232
Location: Guelph, ON, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:47 am Post subject: |
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allan5oh wrote: How does the truck do in ruts?
It follows them. And I have to steer hard to keep the truck on track. |
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special k
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 254
Location: Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| What do you mean "the steering box had defects" ? If the pitman arm is moving up and down you'll have wandering issues. How much caster are you running? usually the more caster you have the less the truck wants to wander. You can run engine oil in the steering box. I know when I went to 15w40 from ATF the steering effort went up and it seemed to tighten up the steering a tad. Some trucks are more apt to do this than others. My T-600 did the same as your's. Sometimes the movement comes from the rear suspension moving around. My Pete with the Air Trac doesn't ride as good as the 8-bag but it also doesn't wander or head for the ditch on a high crowned road. Good luck. |
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allan5oh
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2233
Location: jackassville (winnipeg, mb)
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| good point special k, check the torque arms. Made a huge difference on my truck. |
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tracer
Joined: 17 Mar 2007
Posts: 232
Location: Guelph, ON, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Sorry, I made a mistake. It should have read, "... the steering box had no defects". Thanks for the tip about the arms. I'll have them checked. |
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tracer
Joined: 17 Mar 2007
Posts: 232
Location: Guelph, ON, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:29 pm Post subject: Latest update |
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I went to Shop #4 to test my steering and ... finally ... someone did find something! Carrier Trucks, an International dealer in Woodstock, Ontario was able to determine that the steering gear was out of the recommended specks by measuring the oil pressure inside and how much movement was transmitted through the gear when I turned the wheel.
I'm in New Jersey and I found a shop that will give me a factory-remanned steering box for $555 plus $250 labor for dismantling/installation. I'll also ask them to adjust the steering wheel turns... Right now I have 2 turns to the right and 2.5 to the left
I'll report here if anything will change in my steering after I get the new box. |
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special k
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 254
Location: Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| I hope that solves your prooblem but something doesn't sound right here. Some trucks have steering stops on each spindle that set the max angle each wheel can turn. It's possible one has been played with. They can centre the steering box but usually that only gets out of whack if there is major repairs done to the truck. Like a new steering box being put in or maybe a pitman arm or drag link.You can get the steering wheel cocked a few degrees off by miss aligning the splines when doiong a steering shaft U-Joint but that doesn't usually cause your problem. IMO As far as Carrier goes I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them and I wouldn't take my wheelbarrow to them to get fixed. |
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tracer
Joined: 17 Mar 2007
Posts: 232
Location: Guelph, ON, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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special k wrote: I hope that solves your problem but something doesn't sound right here.
As Jack Nicholson said in the movie Chinatown, "Well, when you're right you're right; and you're right!"
Just drove back from the International dealer (New Jersey) with the new steering gear under the hood. Cost me $1,000 with labor... But the only thing that has changed is steering has became tighter. It's not as easy as it used to be to turn the steering wheel. But:
1. the truck still pulls to the right in the curb lane
2. the steering wheel does 2 turns to the right (to the max) and 2 3/4 to the left (was 2.5 before)
3. the steering wheel now sits at an angle even when I drive on a perfectly straight - no crown - road.
As soon as I pulled in the Flying J, I called the Service Dept back and told them to expect me back first thing tomorrow morning. The thing is I had asked them more than once - "Please make sure the steering wheel makes the same amount of turns in each direction." They couldn't do even that.
I'm afraid to think what the REAL REASON for the truck wandering might be ... Since the steering box didn't fix it, must be one of those poker like thingies that trasfer the turning motion from the steering gear to the wheel :withstupid: |
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bob h
Joined: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 675
Location: Nb
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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tracer wrote: special k wrote: I hope that solves your problem but something doesn't sound right here.
As Jack Nicholson said in the movie Chinatown, "Well, when you're right you're right; and you're right!"
Just drove back from the International dealer (New Jersey) with the new steering gear under the hood. Cost me $1,000 with labor... But the only thing that has changed is steering has became tighter. It's not as easy as it used to be to turn the steering wheel. But:
1. the truck still pulls to the right in the curb lane
2. the steering wheel does 2 turns to the right (to the max) and 2 3/4 to the left (was 2.5 before)
3. the steering wheel now sits at an angle even when I drive on a perfectly straight - no crown - road.
As soon as I pulled in the Flying J, I called the Service Dept back and told them to expect me back first thing tomorrow morning. The thing is I had asked them more than once - "Please make sure the steering wheel makes the same amount of turns in each direction." They couldn't do even that.
I'm afraid to think what the REAL REASON for the truck wandering might be ... Since the steering box didn't fix it, must be one of those poker like thingies that trasfer the turning motion from the steering gear to the wheel :withstupid:
They will need to reset the axle stops. Then, re-adjust the relief poppets in the steering gear.
When the steering is turned all the way in each direction, you might hear a hissing noise that indicates you are at the end of steering travel. When this occurs, the steering knuckle stop adjustment should be abt 1/8" away from the stop pad on the I-beam.
When you're on the other side of the crown, does it then pull to the left?? |
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tracer
Joined: 17 Mar 2007
Posts: 232
Location: Guelph, ON, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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Yep, when I'm on the other side of the road - the truck tries to go into that other ditch :) not the one on the right. Well, I just came back from the dealer. They re-centered the steering wheel and checked again everything on the front end - at least they confirmed again that I have no damaged components on the front end :lol:
So, what the heck - I gave them another 3 bills to replace the steering shaft. They said the one I have on my truck (long and thin) has been known to cause problems. And I have been wanting to replace that sucker for a long time because it was so flimsy and had some freeplay. The steering feels much tighter now, but the truck is still not perfect. The drift in the direction of the crown remains (pulls to the right in the curb lane; to the left - in the hammer lane).
2 possibilities still remain: (1) try to adjust the CASTER more and (2) switch to the original tires that came on the truck from the factory (295 low profile).
Thanks to everyone for the comments! |
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