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SteveBooth
Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 3501
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| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:33 am Post subject: |
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Keep in mind that anyone can file a patent. The product does not have to work at all. It can even be a patent on a Startrek Transporter. Just as long as you don't try and copy it. Companies like this one file a patent or have one pending because people believe that if you have a patent then it must work.
If there is ANY device that could boost mileage on a truck that worked then EVERY SINGLE TRUCK MANUFACTURER would buy one for each new truck just to increase their sales. It's as simple as that. |
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headborg
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 1221
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| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:59 am Post subject: |
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SteveBooth wrote: Keep in mind that anyone can file a patent. The product does not have to work at all. It can even be a patent on a Startrek Transporter. Just as long as you don't try and copy it. Companies like this one file a patent or have one pending because people believe that if you have a patent then it must work.
If there is ANY device that could boost mileage on a truck that worked then EVERY SINGLE TRUCK MANUFACTURER would buy one for each new truck just to increase their sales. It's as simple as that.
Or, the major oil companies would buy the idea, and lock it up for years to protect their sales. |
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SteveBooth
Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 3501
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| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Yup, your right. Wasn't there an old movie about someone who solved the engery crisis and the oil company was trying to kill the person or something? I remember it was pretty good. |
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gmh
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 391
Location: Southern Maryland
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:32 am Post subject: Ideal Gas Law |
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The reason the fuel ignites is due to the ideal gas law (and since no elements of Avogadro's law will apply, it's a little easier to look at the combined gas law:
pV=nRT
p=pressure
V=volume
n is amount of a chemical
R is a constant
T=temperature.
In a four stroke engine, just look at TDC and BDC. n and R drop out. Going from BDC (let's say fuel and air go in here) to TDC: p goes up, V goes down. p goes up more than V goes down, T has to rise to compensate. At some point, T is high enough for fuel to burn. Pistons move. Truck moves. We get paid. (well, you, since I'm not driving yet) |
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heavyhaulerss
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 587
Location: north alabama
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:46 am Post subject: |
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The reason the fuel ignites is due to the ideal gas law (and since no elements of Avogadro's law will apply, it's a little easier to look at the combined gas law:
pV=nRT
p=pressure
V=volume
n is amount of a chemical
R is a constant
T=temperature.
In a four stroke engine, just look at TDC and BDC. n and R drop out. Going from BDC (let's say fuel and air go in here) to TDC: p goes up, V goes down. p goes up more than V goes down, T has to rise to compensate. At some point, T is high enough for fuel to burn. Pistons move. Truck moves. We get paid. (well, you, since I'm not driving yet)
what language is this ???? :? :lol: |
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gmh
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 391
Location: Southern Maryland
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:58 am Post subject: |
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heavyhaulerss wrote: The reason the fuel ignites is due to the ideal gas law (and since no elements of Avogadro's law will apply, it's a little easier to look at the combined gas law:
pV=nRT
p=pressure
V=volume
n is amount of a chemical
R is a constant
T=temperature.
In a four stroke engine, just look at TDC and BDC. n and R drop out. Going from BDC (let's say fuel and air go in here) to TDC: p goes up, V goes down. p goes up more than V goes down, T has to rise to compensate. At some point, T is high enough for fuel to burn. Pistons move. Truck moves. We get paid. (well, you, since I'm not driving yet)
what language is this ???? :? :lol:
Hehe. Chemistry. It was my one time major in college. By the fourth year, it didn't make any sense to me either and I switched to economics. :)
To put it in English:
When you squeeze a gas, it shrinks and/or it gets warmer. Squeeze it enough, and it will combust. Like diesel in an engine. |
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bob h
Joined: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 670
Location: Nb
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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gmh wrote: heavyhaulerss wrote: The reason the fuel ignites is due to the ideal gas law (and since no elements of Avogadro's law will apply, it's a little easier to look at the combined gas law:
pV=nRT
p=pressure
V=volume
n is amount of a chemical
R is a constant
T=temperature.
In a four stroke engine, just look at TDC and BDC. n and R drop out. Going from BDC (let's say fuel and air go in here) to TDC: p goes up, V goes down. p goes up more than V goes down, T has to rise to compensate. At some point, T is high enough for fuel to burn. Pistons move. Truck moves. We get paid. (well, you, since I'm not driving yet)
what language is this ???? :? :lol:
Hehe. Chemistry. It was my one time major in college. By the fourth year, it didn't make any sense to me either and I switched to economics. :)
To put it in English:
When you squeeze a gas, it shrinks and/or it gets warmer. Squeeze it enough, and it will combust. Like diesel in an engine.
Maybe what you meant to say is ; "squeeze it enough, and it will heat up the air charge enough to cause an 'introduced flammable' to combust". |
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heavyhaulerss
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 587
Location: north alabama
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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squeeze it enough, and it will heat up the air charge enough to cause an 'introduced flammable' to combust".
_________________
like i said .i never was good at foreign laguages |
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gmh
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 391
Location: Southern Maryland
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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bob h wrote: gmh wrote: heavyhaulerss wrote: The reason the fuel ignites is due to the ideal gas law (and since no elements of Avogadro's law will apply, it's a little easier to look at the combined gas law:
pV=nRT
p=pressure
V=volume
n is amount of a chemical
R is a constant
T=temperature.
In a four stroke engine, just look at TDC and BDC. n and R drop out. Going from BDC (let's say fuel and air go in here) to TDC: p goes up, V goes down. p goes up more than V goes down, T has to rise to compensate. At some point, T is high enough for fuel to burn. Pistons move. Truck moves. We get paid. (well, you, since I'm not driving yet)
what language is this ???? :? :lol:
Hehe. Chemistry. It was my one time major in college. By the fourth year, it didn't make any sense to me either and I switched to economics. :)
To put it in English:
When you squeeze a gas, it shrinks and/or it gets warmer. Squeeze it enough, and it will combust. Like diesel in an engine.
Maybe what you meant to say is ; "squeeze it enough, and it will heat up the air charge enough to cause an 'introduced flammable' to combust".
Not sure if I meant to say that or not. I don't know that the introduction of a heat air charge makes a flammable combust or not. I thought the air and fuel were in somewhat homogenious mixture, so the entire thing is heated via the volume/pressure change.
But I'm also not sure if that matters much :) |
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allan5oh
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2233
Location: jackassville (winnipeg, mb)
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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In a gas engine they are.
In a diesel like ours, the air is compressed about 18:1. Then the diesel is injected, and ignites as soon as it's injected. There is no "mixture" in the common sense. |
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gmh
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 391
Location: Southern Maryland
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:24 am Post subject: |
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allan5oh wrote: In a gas engine they are.
In a diesel like ours, the air is compressed about 18:1. Then the diesel is injected, and ignites as soon as it's injected. There is no "mixture" in the common sense.
Any good reference material (particulaly online) to illustrate what happens when during the cycle on a diesel vs. a gas engine? I'm also curious over what length of time the diesel is injected, when in relation to piston position, how you avoid flame propogation back through the injector.
Thanks. |
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headborg
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 1221
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:17 am Post subject: |
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gmh wrote: bob h wrote: gmh wrote: heavyhaulerss wrote: The reason the fuel ignites is due to the ideal gas law (and since no elements of Avogadro's law will apply, it's a little easier to look at the combined gas law:
pV=nRT
p=pressure
V=volume
n is amount of a chemical
R is a constant
T=temperature.
In a four stroke engine, just look at TDC and BDC. n and R drop out. Going from BDC (let's say fuel and air go in here) to TDC: p goes up, V goes down. p goes up more than V goes down, T has to rise to compensate. At some point, T is high enough for fuel to burn. Pistons move. Truck moves. We get paid. (well, you, since I'm not driving yet)
what language is this ???? :? :lol:
Hehe. Chemistry. It was my one time major in college. By the fourth year, it didn't make any sense to me either and I switched to economics. :)
To put it in English:
When you squeeze a gas, it shrinks and/or it gets warmer. Squeeze it enough, and it will combust. Like diesel in an engine.
Maybe what you meant to say is ; "squeeze it enough, and it will heat up the air charge enough to cause an 'introduced flammable' to combust".
Not sure if I meant to say that or not. I don't know that the introduction of a heat air charge makes a flammable combust or not. I thought the air and fuel were in somewhat homogenious mixture, so the entire thing is heated via the volume/pressure change.
But I'm also not sure if that matters much :)
yeah; there's a big difference....what you & I are thinking in terms of is what's know as the OTTO Cycle---the way a gasoline or jet fuel works......where the air/fuel is combined first then ignited with a spark---
the diesel combustion system seams very simple---- allowing just about anything that will burn to be used from peanut oil to diesel. I too would be interested in how/when exactly the fuel is injected in relationship to piston position, how the fire/explosion is prevented from traveling back into the fuel rail, and how much remaining chamber space is remaining when the pistons are at TDC? Assuming the fuel is injected exactly when the piston is TDC? otherwise, it too would be getting "compressed' during the compression stroke(along with the chamber air), which would seem to problematic---resulting in severe timing problems. |
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allan5oh
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2233
Location: jackassville (winnipeg, mb)
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:57 am Post subject: |
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http://auto.howstuffworks.com/diesel.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine
The fuel injector pressure is rather substantial, even in older engines. I'm sure the injector is closed by the time max pressure has occured. |
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gmh
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 391
Location: Southern Maryland
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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allan5oh wrote: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/diesel.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine
The fuel injector pressure is rather substantial, even in older engines. I'm sure the injector is closed by the time max pressure has occured.
Thanks for the links. There went an hour of my life. (to read those two pages as well as other interesting links that branched off from there) |
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bob h
Joined: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 670
Location: Nb
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:53 am Post subject: |
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allan5oh wrote: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/diesel.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine
The fuel injector pressure is rather substantial, even in older engines. I'm sure the injector is closed by the time max pressure has occured.
Maximum combustion chamber pressure is far lower than the fuel injector's "valve opening pressure". |
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