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Roadie · Joined: 17 Jul 2007 Posts: 104 Location: Salt Lake City

I have been reading and hearing alot about different schools across the country. I have to wonder what it is with the attitude of most. Seems that most schools are very strict and militaristic in the way they operate. IE:
DO NOT be late, you'll get booted
Call all Instructors MR. Smith, etc
Yelled at by "instructors" when not quite getting something

They seem to forget YOU are the customer paying for their service. Is this indicative of the trucking industry?

Don't get me wrong, I am not "whining". I can tolerate about anything, had a career in the military. Been there, done that, don't need that to make me perform. In fact I would guess it has the opposite of the desired effect on most people.

I have been an instructor in the motorcycle world, and would NEVER dream of yelling at a student struggling, that makes a bad situation worse. Late? Yes, if we have already covered an hour of material in a 4 hour class, they need to reschedule, but they CAN reschedule, not just sent home. MR Roadie? Nahh, a relaxed environment is a better learning environment. Besides, I am no better than my students, not on a pedestal above them and no need to prove it.

Yes, I am in a school right now, very relaxed atmosphere, very respective of their students, they make allowances and work with students to get them thru.

There is a choice, maybe some schools should realize that.

Cheers

rjallen · Joined: 29 Jul 2007 Posts: 64 Location: Kalispell Montana

Roadie

Even among different schools of the same chain, attitudes can vary wildly. Some of it just comes down to different attitudes. I too have a background in the military and have trained hundreds of folks in other endeavors, not truck driving. Its the same though.

As a former cop and combat veteran, I believe its a macho thing with some. Justifies their vision of themselves.

The Sage I and my wife are now attending is very laid back and the instructors though out the chain of schools can be restricted or suspended from teaching. I know. I saw it done. The owner are very serious about maintaining a professional yet casual atmosphere.

Rick

Twilight Flyer · Joined: 13 Nov 2002 Posts: 5662

Quote: DO NOT be late, you'll get booted

That should go without saying. Your job as a driver is to deliver the freight safely and on-time. Screw that up and you're going to get booted.

Quote: They seem to forget YOU are the customer paying for their service

Actually, you are not a customer, you are a student. You are paying for schooling in the same way that a college kid pays for their regular 2 or 4 or more years. You are learning a trade and it is their job to teach you correctly and fail those that will not cut it as a driver. I don't necessarily agree with doing so in a military-like atmosphere, but you have to remember that they aren't offering you a service...they are your teacher.

Roadie · Joined: 17 Jul 2007 Posts: 104 Location: Salt Lake City

[quote="Twilight Flyer"] Quote:
Actually, you are not a customer, you are a student. You are paying for schooling in the same way that a college kid pays for their regular 2 or 4 or more years. You are learning a trade and it is their job to teach you correctly and fail those that will not cut it as a driver. I don't necessarily agree with doing so in a military-like atmosphere, but you have to remember that they aren't offering you a service...they are your teacher.

I have to disagree. A student IS the customer. A student, regardless of what school or training, is paying for the service of that school to provide a good learning environment and impart the knowledge of the subject matter experts. I am paying to be taught a trade, yes, but not paying to be abused in ANY way. There are many schools that come and go, and that attitude is alot of it.
An instructors job is to impart knowledge, and teach skills necessary for the student to perform and demonstrate NOT to decide who can "cut it" and who can't. That is the employers job. THEY will judge work ethic and attitude.

Colts Fan · Joined: 10 Aug 2007 Posts: 561 Location: Indianapolis, IN

[quote="Roadie"] Twilight Flyer wrote: Quote:
Actually, you are not a customer, you are a student. You are paying for schooling in the same way that a college kid pays for their regular 2 or 4 or more years. You are learning a trade and it is their job to teach you correctly and fail those that will not cut it as a driver. I don't necessarily agree with doing so in a military-like atmosphere, but you have to remember that they aren't offering you a service...they are your teacher.

I have to disagree. A student IS the customer. A student, regardless of what school or training, is paying for the service of that school to provide a good learning environment and impart the knowledge of the subject matter experts. I am paying to be taught a trade, yes, but not paying to be abused in ANY way. There are many schools that come and go, and that attitude is alot of it.
An instructors job is to impart knowledge, and teach skills necessary for the student to perform and demonstrate NOT to decide who can "cut it" and who can't. That is the employers job. THEY will judge work ethic and attitude.

Agreed. This is not college. We pay a crap load for these services. I never paid such a price for a college course. SAGE has the right attitude.

Twilight Flyer · Joined: 13 Nov 2002 Posts: 5662

Quote: An instructors job is to impart knowledge, and teach skills necessary for the student to perform and demonstrate NOT to decide who can "cut it" and who can't. That is the employers job. THEY will judge work ethic and attitude.

By the same token, here's a real-world situation. Your young daughter had a brain tumor and requires surgery. Would you rather the college decide whether that would-be doctor can cut it or would you rather have the hospital judge him while your daughter is under the knife?

This is really no different. You're not going to school to ride a desk or a computer terminal. You're in school to learn a trade where you are piloting an 80,000 pound missile down a highway at 65 mph, where one wrong move can cost someone their life.

As I said, I don't agree with a military-like atmosphere, but going to school to be a truck driver shouldn't be a walk in the park, either. It should be tough, with heavy emphasis on safety and to a lesser extent, timeliness due to the nature of the job.

Roadie · Joined: 17 Jul 2007 Posts: 104 Location: Salt Lake City

Twilight Flyer wrote: Quote: An instructors job is to impart knowledge, and teach skills necessary for the student to perform and demonstrate NOT to decide who can "cut it" and who can't. That is the employers job. THEY will judge work ethic and attitude.

By the same token, here's a real-world situation. Your young daughter had a brain tumor and requires surgery. Would you rather the college decide whether that would-be doctor can cut it or would you rather have the hospital judge him while your daughter is under the knife?

As I said, I don't agree with a military-like atmosphere, but going to school to be a truck driver shouldn't be a walk in the park, either. It should be tough, with heavy emphasis on safety and to a lesser extent, timeliness due to the nature of the job.

Every company has some type of training period, some longer than others. That is the time to figure out if the driver will fit into their view of what they want for a driver.

Agreed, the school should be tough in a thorough sort of way in regards to safety and yes, even timeliness, as that can affect other students drive times. This can be done without all the attitude thrown in however. One of the main objectives of a school is to create a learning environment where the student will retain as much as possible. If the student is constantly worried about doing the wrong thing and getting yelled at, he/she will concentrate on that rather than learning the material and the reasons why certain things must be done in a certain way for safety sake.

LA to Cleveland · Joined: 13 Jul 2006 Posts: 65 Location: Southern California

ICS · Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 157 Location: New York

I also agree with the laid back attitude in school to a point. The school That i went to cost me 8G's 18 weeks 5 days a week 8-5 during the class room stuff 8-3:30 during yard and road time. When you are going to be late you have to call. if you miss class you have to make that time up either during weekends or lunch or afternoons. Our instructors are great teachers all with different styles. If someone needs more work on a certain area they get extra help. soon after i signed up I found out the graduation happened s before the road test, that scarred me a bit. but after graduating they allow you to come back and practice all you want on whatever you want NO CHARGE. The one thing a learned while teaching martial arts is that just because you are good at something it wont make you a good teacher. Teaching is a skill set all its own. If teachers are making people uncomfortable in anyway that isn't a teachers fault that is the fault of administration.

Fozzy · Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 2460

I'll tell you from experience that students get really mad when they get left behind to watch videos for 5 hours while myself and his classmates drove out the gate as he was sauntering into the building 20 minutes after he or she was supposed to be there.. the other classmates enjoyed the extra driving time at the expense of the late student. It usually only took once to get the mindset that when I say the truck will be leaving the yard at 0800.. you better be here. Teaching these newbies that there is no such thing as "fashionably late" in trucking is usually their first wake up call to the realities of trucking.

dle · Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 732 Location: Texas

Customer - Yes
Student - Yes

You are both.

As a student learning a profession you are expected to perform at a certain level -- a professional one. You are expected to be on time (just like being at a job), you are expected to be prepared for the day, you are expected to show respect for yourself, your fellow students and your instructor.

As a customer you expect and deserve to be treated with respect. As a customer you are expected to show respect to other customers and to the staff of the business.

As a customer who is a student you expect and deserve training.

lurchgs · Joined: 03 Feb 2008 Posts: 83

First, Fozzie, please accept my condolences. All honor and respect are due any member of the military, and our love goes to the families ofthose who fall.

I think, as a teacher, your attitude is correct. If the instructor says "this is the way it is", any student better have a good explanation for not meeting that expectation. If he can't do it, he needs to be elsewhere - maybe a different school, maybe a different career.

The entire class (I don't care if it's just one other student) should not be inconvenienced by the thoughtlessness of one student. Tardiness, disrupting class, etc., are all indications of disrespect - not only of the instructor, but any other students as well.

The instructor lays down the rules. A good one can lay down stiff rules an still maintain a friendly relationship with the students. Lay the rules down, stick to them fairly, and never raise your voice. If a student doesn't get something, see that he gets additional instruction. If the CLASS doesn't get something, it's time to revamp your lesson plan.

I've spent the better part of my life watching one of the best teachers I know impart his knowledge of physics to college students. He can even teach football players and blonde bimbettes.

It's also true, as somebody else here pointed out - just because you know a lot about a subject doesn't mean you will make a good teacher. I know a few things about this and that, and I've tried to teach employees.. it took me a while, but I learned that I am a *terrible* teacher.

I have zero problem calling somebody "Mr." or "Miss", or "Mrs." even if they are half my age. It's a sign of respect, and by dint of their knowledge - which they are trying to impart to me - they are deserving of respect (well, until they prove otherwise).
Of course, I am deserving of respect, as well. If I have a problem getting something right, yelling like a drill sergeant won't help. To me, it's a sign that the individual in question has a.. shall we say, lack of expertise. Rather than learn alternative methods of getting his point across, he blames the student. Not a good thing.

ok - I've rambled on and on and parked my rig in the cornfield. I should stop now and maybe see about getting some help.

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