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danske
Joined: 04 Jun 2007
Posts: 101
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:52 am Post subject: Limits to LEO Waking Up Sleeping Team Partner?!? |
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Are there any limits to LEO(eg. Ohio State Highway Patrol :evil: ) waking up a sleeping(Off Duty, In Sleeper) team partner during a traffic stop? Yes, I am sure the answer there are NO limits, but the following incident has always bothered me. I am sure that I will get plenty of sea lawyers to respond here! :twisted:
When I was driving team in the 90's, my partner was stopped by OSHP on I70 about 2am. He was sighted for failure to maintain lane control. Yes, it was early in the morning and he had been driving for 1 or 2 hours. Funny thing was OSHP had 2 or 3 other trucks stopped that the same time on both sides of the Interstate, so OSHP was out in force.
During this stop, the Highway Patrolman entered the truck from the passenger side, pulled back the sleeper curtain, and shined a flashlight directly into my eyes to wake me. The first thing I was aware of was a bright light and "May I see your driver license?". I presented my license(I don't remember where it was in the truck) and I got it back after the stop. Needlessly to say my sleep was disturbed that night! :shock:
So, my question is there any limits to LEO/DOT disturbing a sleeping team partner? Again, probably not. I am sure that LEO has the right to identify all drivers/passengers in a vehicle whether commerical or private, but was the above really necessary? When a truck is pulled in for a DOT inspection, is it common for the off duty driver to woke up? How would it effect his/her 10 hour break?
BTW, we were back in Ohio the same week and we had time to stop at the County Courthouse. My partner had to wait sometime, but he spoke to the local judge for only a few minutes. The judge dismissed the charges because they were issued by OSHP!! Apparently, the judge did not have much love for the State cops. |
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Uturn2001
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 4653
Location: East Central IL between the corn and the beans
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:11 am Post subject: |
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Quote: How would it effect his/her 10 hour break?
If you are on your 10 hour break and get inspected then guess what. You get to start your break all over again because you have to log that inspection as On Duty Not Driving. The only "exception" to this would be if you already had at least 8 hours in the sleeper then you could go ahead and take over for your partner after the inspection and then take a 2 hour break at some point before the end of your shift and then go back to a 10 hour break.
Beyond that, LEO's can perform inspections of a CMV and/or it's driver(s) at any time they want to. |
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Rev.Vassago
Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 6001
Location: The other side of the coin
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 7:01 am Post subject: |
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Uturn2001 wrote: The only "exception" to this would be if you already had at least 8 hours in the sleeper then you could go ahead and take over for your partner after the inspection and then take a 2 hour break at some point before the end of your shift and then go back to a 10 hour break.
The opposite would also hold true. As long as you had at least 2 hours in the sleeper, you could take an additional 8 hours to get the entire 10 hour break. So there is no reason to "start your break all over again". |
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Uturn2001
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 4653
Location: East Central IL between the corn and the beans
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 7:58 am Post subject: |
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Quote: The opposite would also hold true. As long as you had at least 2 hours in the sleeper, you could take an additional 8 hours to get the entire 10 hour break. So there is no reason to "start your break all over again".
I fail to follow your reasoning here.
If you follow the assumption that the driver in the bunk just came off a 10 hour driving shift, then he would have to have at least 8 in the sleeper before he could drive more than 1 hour, assuming that he is still within the 14 hour window. After a full driving shift, anything less than an 8 hour break in the sleeper would not count for anything. |
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Rev.Vassago
Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 6001
Location: The other side of the coin
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:11 am Post subject: |
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Uturn2001 wrote: Quote: The opposite would also hold true. As long as you had at least 2 hours in the sleeper, you could take an additional 8 hours to get the entire 10 hour break. So there is no reason to "start your break all over again".
I fail to follow your reasoning here.
If you follow the assumption that the driver in the bunk just came off a 10 hour driving shift, then he would have to have at least 8 in the sleeper before he could drive more than 1 hour, assuming that he is still within the 14 hour window. After a full driving shift, anything less than an 8 hour break in the sleeper would not count for anything.
I wasn't aware that being pulled out of the bunk by DOT constituted driving. :roll: In the case of being forced to go "On Duty, Not Driving" because of a DOT stop, a split sleeper break will work just fine, even if the short period is on the front end.
I think there's some diapers that need to be changed. |
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scooter823
Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Posts: 98
Location: NC
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| Hey Rev. why does it seem that you always have to be putting somebody down, you must have a miserable life stuck in that truck waiting on that next HHG load. get a life. |
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Rev.Vassago
Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 6001
Location: The other side of the coin
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:29 am Post subject: |
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scooter823 wrote: Hey Rev. why does it seem that you always have to be putting somebody down,
You mean like you just did? |
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scooter823
Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Posts: 98
Location: NC
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| Yes, just like that. you bring out the best in people :D |
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Rev.Vassago
Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 6001
Location: The other side of the coin
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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scooter823 wrote: Yes, just like that. you bring out the best in people :D
I wasn't aware that I was talking to you. |
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scooter823
Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Posts: 98
Location: NC
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Do you not realize your on a public forum. :roll: |
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ben45750
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 1754
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Scooter, your better off to just ignore the resident troll. |
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Uturn2001
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 4653
Location: East Central IL between the corn and the beans
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Rev just can not handle being wrong about anything and must make stupid childish remarks. This is the reason he has been banned from several forums.
The regs state that if you use the split sleeper you must have 8 consecutive hours in the sleeper berth followed by an additional 2 consecutive hour break at some point during your shift. By your reasoning, a driver could have a 10 hour break, drive 11 hours, take a 2 hour break, drive 10 more hours and then take his 8 hour sleeper and be in compliance.
Secondly where do you come up with this forced to drive crap. No where did I say that. I suggest you go back and read what I posted before, and then go back an read the regulations again. All of them including the FAQ's and the interpretations. |
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Rev.Vassago
Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 6001
Location: The other side of the coin
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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Uturn2001 wrote: Rev just can not handle being wrong about anything and must make stupid childish remarks. This is the reason he has been banned from several forums.
Please list the "several forums" I have been banned from.
Quote: The regs state that if you use the split sleeper you must have 8 consecutive hours in the sleeper berth followed by an additional 2 consecutive hour break at some point during your shift.
No, that is not what the regs state at all. They state that a split sleeper berth must be a combination of a break that is greater than 2 hours, and a break that is greater than 8 hours. It does not state in which order the breaks need to be taken.
Quote: By your reasoning, a driver could have a 10 hour break, drive 11 hours, take a 2 hour break, drive 10 more hours and then take his 8 hour sleeper and be in compliance.
No, that is not what I stated at all. I do contend, however, that a driver can have a 10 hour break, drive 11 hours, take a 2 hour break, be on duty, not drivingfor 30 minutes (for the DOT roadside stop), take an additional 8 hour break, and be in compliance for driving 11 hours.
Quote: Secondly where do you come up with this forced to drive crap. No where did I say that.
Forced to drive? What the heck are you talking about? You stated:
Uturn2001 wrote: If you follow the assumption that the driver in the bunk just came off a 10 hour driving shift, then he would have to have at least 8 in the sleeper before he could drive more than 1 hour,
To which I responded:
Rev.Vassago wrote: I wasn't aware that being pulled out of the bunk by DOT constituted driving.
Nowhere in the original poster's question was there anything about the driver who was in the bunk needing to drive.
Quote: I suggest you go back and read what I posted before, and then go back an read the regulations again. All of them including the FAQ's and the interpretations.
I have read them. Have you? |
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danske
Joined: 04 Jun 2007
Posts: 101
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't think my post would take this direction, but the comments have been helpful.
Now that I think of that roadside stop in Ohio, my involvement was less than 5 minutes. All that was required of me was my license and maybe a look at my logbook. The rest of the traffic stop was handle by my partner. I think all that would be require to show in MY logbook would be to flag the roadside stop. Since that was less than 15 minutes, I could stay on line 2 "Sleeper Berth" and my DOT break would not be interrupted.
The real effect of traffic stop was my sleep was disturbed which could have effected my safety as a driver. Also, I was left with the impression that Ohio State Highway Patrol is not the most professional law enforcement organization. |
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danske
Joined: 04 Jun 2007
Posts: 101
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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All your comments got me thinking about different situations and legal definitions.
One would be when does a driver's beginning of duty start? For instance, I arrive a customer property at 10pm and go to bed. At 6am, I am asked to move the truck to a dock, it takes me 5 minutes, and I return to the sleeper until the trailer is loaded/unloaded. At 9am the loading/unloading is finished and I leave the customer property. What time did I start work in my logbook, 6am or 9am? No, I don't want the answer every truckdriver and his mother would use(Which would be 11am because he drove 10 miles down the highway to the truckstop and waited several hours for dispatch to his next load :wink:) ; What time did I LEGALLY start my 14 hour clock?
Second, when am I "DRIVING" and when am I "ON-DUTY(Not Driving)"? If I am asked to reposition several trailers for a customer on their property and it takes me more than 15 minutes, can I LEGALLY log this time as "ON-DUTY(Not Driving)"? Again, I don't want the answer every driver would give(eg. Drop and Hook this trailer for that one and all the other work never happened :wink: ). So, can I LEGALLY move my truck after my 11 hours of driving if I performing this duty on a customer's property? I know if the customer asked me to move my truck and trailer out of a dock but I could use their property for my break, you bet I would do it safely!
So those are some "What if's". I know what I would do, but want would DOT or a lawyer(We don't have any lawyers here do we? :lol: ) make of this? |
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