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silvan

I've almost never used this, and I don't think I've used it since the stupid new 14-hour thing went into effect.

I'm trying to decide if I should let my logbook stand as I have it, or, um, consider alternative approaches.

I logged 13 hours of driving, and I actually did 13 hours of driving. The run normally takes 8.50 hours on the ultra conservative throw some extra line 3 on the fire because I have it to burn side, and I have a stack of pages showing 8.50 after 8.50 after 8.50.

There were no flashing sign boards, blinking call 511 lights, or other warnings, and I didn't hear anything on the FM radio. I ran smack into a seven mile backup that took FOUR HOURS to get through, even though, yes, I had the CB turned on. Thanks everybody.

As I understand it, this doesn't fall into some kind of category like if you try to drive extra due to snow in a place where it always snows, or traffic in a place that's always backed up, or where construction could be known ahead of time, etc. This was just an unpredictable fluke, and probably the longest backup of my 10-year career. It was still backed up just as bad when I came back through there a few hours later. I've never seen anything backed up that bad for that long, where they didn't have people flagging traffic and running you onto alternate routes or something. Tennessee has its head up its ass in this respect, IMHO.

So anyway, I came in under my 14, barely, but I did, I really did, no BS. I drove 13, which is 11 + 2 extra, "to complete the run." I showed 13 hours on the total column, circled it, and wrote "WRECK ON I-81 SB. RUN NORMALLY TAKES 8.5 HOURS. DROVE 13 HOURS TO COMPLETE RUN. DID NOT EXCEED 14 HOURS ON DUTY."

I think I can go with this, but I'd like a second opinion. I hate pushing the edges.

(I tell you what too, since I've been on this dedicated deal, it's been a long time since this old truck driver has kept his ass behind the wheel that long. I'm ready for a nap.)

Dawn · Joined: 31 Oct 2006 Posts: 323 Location: Indianapolis, In

silvan wrote: I've almost never used this, and I don't think I've used it since the stupid new 14-hour thing went into effect.

I'm trying to decide if I should let my logbook stand as I have it, or, um, consider alternative approaches.

I logged 13 hours of driving, and I actually did 13 hours of driving. The run normally takes 8.50 hours on the ultra conservative throw some extra line 3 on the fire because I have it to burn side, and I have a stack of pages showing 8.50 after 8.50 after 8.50.

There were no flashing sign boards, blinking call 511 lights, or other warnings, and I didn't hear anything on the FM radio. I ran smack into a seven mile backup that took FOUR HOURS to get through, even though, yes, I had the CB turned on. Thanks everybody.

As I understand it, this doesn't fall into some kind of category like if you try to drive extra due to snow in a place where it always snows, or traffic in a place that's always backed up, or where construction could be known ahead of time, etc. This was just an unpredictable fluke, and probably the longest backup of my 10-year career. It was still backed up just as bad when I came back through there a few hours later. I've never seen anything backed up that bad for that long, where they didn't have people flagging traffic and running you onto alternate routes or something. Tennessee has its head up its ass in this respect, IMHO.

So anyway, I came in under my 14, barely, but I did, I really did, no BS. I drove 13, which is 11 + 2 extra, "to complete the run." I showed 13 hours on the total column, circled it, and wrote "WRECK ON I-81 SB. RUN NORMALLY TAKES 8.5 HOURS. DROVE 13 HOURS TO COMPLETE RUN. DID NOT EXCEED 14 HOURS ON DUTY."

I think I can go with this, but I'd like a second opinion. I hate pushing the edges.

(I tell you what too, since I've been on this dedicated deal, it's been a long time since this old truck driver has kept his ass behind the wheel that long. I'm ready for a nap.)

Yes you did the right thing. The back up caused an unexpectided situation and caused you to run over your hours. Noting it on your logs is the best thing to do and log it as you did it.

Let me explain something for any situation. If you run over your hours of service for "any" reason, always log it as you did it and write down why.
DOT treats you like we treat your kids. Tell the truth up front and the punishment may be easier (notice I said maybe). They can't stand a liar and someone covering up an hos violation with a false log. False is much worse!
Now writting an exscuse every day or every other 2 weeks is not tolerated either. They don't like exscuses (believe me) but would rather you be upfront and tell the truth. Dont bs, they can smell it :lol:

Rev.Vassago · Joined: 04 Apr 2006 Posts: 5197 Location: Green Bay, WI

silvan wrote: I've almost never used this, and I don't think I've used it since the stupid new 14-hour thing went into effect.

I'm trying to decide if I should let my logbook stand as I have it, or, um, consider alternative approaches.

I logged 13 hours of driving, and I actually did 13 hours of driving. The run normally takes 8.50 hours on the ultra conservative throw some extra line 3 on the fire because I have it to burn side, and I have a stack of pages showing 8.50 after 8.50 after 8.50.

There were no flashing sign boards, blinking call 511 lights, or other warnings, and I didn't hear anything on the FM radio. I ran smack into a seven mile backup that took FOUR HOURS to get through, even though, yes, I had the CB turned on. Thanks everybody.

As I understand it, this doesn't fall into some kind of category like if you try to drive extra due to snow in a place where it always snows, or traffic in a place that's always backed up, or where construction could be known ahead of time, etc. This was just an unpredictable fluke, and probably the longest backup of my 10-year career. It was still backed up just as bad when I came back through there a few hours later. I've never seen anything backed up that bad for that long, where they didn't have people flagging traffic and running you onto alternate routes or something. Tennessee has its head up its ass in this respect, IMHO.

So anyway, I came in under my 14, barely, but I did, I really did, no BS. I drove 13, which is 11 + 2 extra, "to complete the run." I showed 13 hours on the total column, circled it, and wrote "WRECK ON I-81 SB. RUN NORMALLY TAKES 8.5 HOURS. DROVE 13 HOURS TO COMPLETE RUN. DID NOT EXCEED 14 HOURS ON DUTY."

I think I can go with this, but I'd like a second opinion. I hate pushing the edges.

(I tell you what too, since I've been on this dedicated deal, it's been a long time since this old truck driver has kept his ass behind the wheel that long. I'm ready for a nap.)

What you did was perfectly legal, and correct by the regs AS LONG AS you could have completed the run within 11 hours without the backup.

If you just drove an extra 2 hours for the day, but wouldn't have been able to complete the run within 11 hours, then you cannot use the adverse conditions exception. But, from the sounds of it, that was not the case.

Skywalker · Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 9:28 pm Post subject:

I agree with the others. You did it right. Besides....what else could you have realistically done under the circumstances? As long as you log it like you drove it, and put the notes in the remarks section, you should be ok.

If your logbook gets checked.... it will probably "freak out" the officer who reads it.....I mean, afterall....an "honest logbook"!!!

Dawn · Joined: 31 Oct 2006 Posts: 323 Location: Indianapolis, In

Skywalker wrote: I agree with the others. You did it right. Besides....what else could you have realistically done under the circumstances? As long as you log it like you drove it, and put the notes in the remarks section, you should be ok.

If your logbook gets checked.... it will probably "freak out" the officer who reads it.....I mean, afterall....an "honest logbook"!!!

He might even pat him on the back after he has a heart attack you think? l.o.l.
You would be suprised in how many drivers do log legal now because of all the news topics on truck drivers going to jail due to accidents etc.

I say thata boy!

terrylamar · Joined: 25 Apr 2006 Posts: 1409 Location: Austin, TX

I'm no legal eagle here, but I thought the rule was that you could drive one hour extra in adverse conditions as long as you don't go over your 14? I don't have my game book with me to look it up.

golfhobo · Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 5:47 am Post subject:

The REV said:

Quote: What you did was perfectly legal, and correct by the regs AS LONG AS you could have completed the run within 11 hours without the backup.

Which is EXACTLY what I've been saying for months now! Thank you, REV, for finally telling the TRUTH! :lol:

No need to argue, or try to "back out of it." Your CONCESSION is on record now! :wink:

golfhobo · Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 5:56 am Post subject:

Silvan said:

Quote: This was just an unpredictable fluke, and probably the longest backup of my 10-year career. It was still backed up just as bad when I came back through there a few hours later.

Just a couple of notes. 1) this is called the "Adverse driving conditions" exemption, which is different from an "emergency situation" exemption. And....

2) I sure hope your log doesn't show you "coming back thru there" in anything LESS than 10 hours later!!!!

Rev.Vassago · Joined: 04 Apr 2006 Posts: 5197 Location: Green Bay, WI

terrylamar wrote: I'm no legal eagle here, but I thought the rule was that you could drive one hour extra in adverse conditions as long as you don't go over your 14? I don't have my game book with me to look it up.

You get 2 extra hours, as long as you don't exceed your 14, and the entire run could have been completed had the adverse condition not existed. That means you could have made it to your destination. And the only sticking point is what contstitutes an adverse condition.

golfhobo wrote: The REV said:

Quote: What you did was perfectly legal, and correct by the regs AS LONG AS you could have completed the run within 11 hours without the backup.

Which is EXACTLY what I've been saying for months now! Thank you, REV, for finally telling the TRUTH! :lol:

No need to argue, or try to "back out of it." Your CONCESSION is on record now! :wink:

The major difference between your argument and the original poster's scenario is this little nugget:

Quote: As I understand it, this doesn't fall into some kind of category like if you try to drive extra due to snow in a place where it always snows, or traffic in a place that's always backed up, or where construction could be known ahead of time, etc. This was just an unpredictable fluke, and probably the longest backup of my 10-year career. It was still backed up just as bad when I came back through there a few hours later. I've never seen anything backed up that bad for that long, where they didn't have people flagging traffic and running you onto alternate routes or something. Tennessee has its head up its ass in this respect, IMHO.

They made an effort to know the route they were travelling, whereas you want to pretend that you have no duty to know the route you are travelling.

This is not what you "have been saying for months now". This is the correct way to use the adverse driving conditions, whereas you just want to use it for standard road construction that could have been well known in advance. :roll:

golfhobo · Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 7:18 am Post subject:

YOU said:

Quote: They made an effort to know the route they were travelling, whereas you want to pretend that you have no duty to know the route you are travelling.

Silvan said no such thing. They just travel the same route all the time. To a certain extent, so do we. I would think HE had the more prevalent responsibility to know the route HE takes ALL THE TIME.

Without warning, or signs, etc., (as he said,) he ran into a sudden "construction" backup. It happens to me, too. THIS is what I've been saying for months.

Are you now saying that HIS dispatcher wansn't "required" to check some allknowing list to see if there was a construction backup on his route before dispatching him? He runs the SAME routes all the time! How could HE or his dispatcher NOT know that this was coming? I'm SURE it was announced on the LOCAL AM radio station that morning.... that he SHOULD have been tuned to!

I run different routes some weeks, the same routes on others. I KNOW where the construction zones are if they show "signs" of becoming construction zones from week to week. But, I STILL run across one I didn't know about some weeks. I allow extra time for construction in MANY areas across the country. And I was NEVER really talking about MY situation.... cuz I run TEAM! I was referring to just THIS type of situation, even tho it is hard to believe it could happen on a dedicated run!

I was addressing the fmcsa rulings that would apply to someone like Silvan, when something like this happened to HIM! And I correctly stated the regs, that YOU have now confirmed.

In fact, YOU are being "two faced!" Where is your outrage that HIS dispatcher didn't check every website available, or make PHONE CALLS, before dispatching him on this run..... even JUST before dispatching him??

THAT is what YOU'VE been saying for months!!!

I made it clear MANY times that I had no NEED or INTEREST in just "extending" my line 3 hours! I SIMPLY stated that, an UNKNOWN "Adverse condition (road, weather, or traffic) qualified for the exemption for someone like Silvan to "complete his run" or get to a "safe shutdown" position.

It allows you TWO extra hours of driving, as long as you don't exceed your 14 hour duty clock. It IS the reg (specifically geared toward dedicated runs)... and YOU have now confirmed it (as if we needed you to.)

BTW..... Good Morning, Rev!! Glad you could join us! :lol:

Have you ever heard, or would you understand, the phrase: Discretion is the better part of valor? This would be a good chance for you to claim a bit of it. I have done so in the past, even YOU acknowledged it. This could be YOUR chance! :wink:

Rev.Vassago · Joined: 04 Apr 2006 Posts: 5197 Location: Green Bay, WI

golfhobo wrote: YOU said:

Quote: They made an effort to know the route they were travelling, whereas you want to pretend that you have no duty to know the route you are travelling.

Silvan said no such thing. They just travel the same route all the time. To a certain extent, so do we. I would think HE had the more prevalent responsibility to know the route HE takes ALL THE TIME.

Reading comprehension 101:

Quote: There were no flashing sign boards, blinking call 511 lights, or other warnings, and I didn't hear anything on the FM radio.

Quote: This was just an unpredictable fluke,

It was completely unplanned, and there was no notice. :roll:

Quote: Without warning, or signs, etc., (as he said,) he ran into a sudden "construction" backup. It happens to me, too. THIS is what I've been saying for months.

No, it isn't.

Quote: Are you now saying that HIS dispatcher wansn't "required" to check some allknowing list to see if there was a construction backup on his route before dispatching him? He runs the SAME routes all the time! How could HE or his dispatcher NOT know that this was coming? I'm SURE it was announced on the LOCAL AM radio station that morning.... that he SHOULD have been tuned to!

Obviously is wasn't, as Silvan said that the radio made no mention of it.

Quote: In fact, YOU are being "two faced!" Where is your outrage that HIS dispatcher didn't check every website available, or make PHONE CALLS, before dispatching him on this run..... even JUST before dispatching him??

THAT is what YOU'VE been saying for months!!!

No, it isn't. An effort was made to find out in advance, and there was no information on it.

Although you didn't let me down, as I expected you to come in this thread and whine and complain. :lol:

Quote: Have you ever heard, or would you understand, the phrase: Discretion is the better part of valor? This would be a good chance for you to claim a bit of it. I have done so in the past, even YOU acknowledged it. This could be YOUR chance! :wink:

Huh? :?

silvan · Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 6:59 pm Post subject:

golfhobo wrote: Silvan said no such thing. They just travel the same route all the time. To a certain extent, so do we. I would think HE had the more prevalent responsibility to know the route HE takes ALL THE TIME. I do know the route. I know where all the construction is. This wasn't construction. It was a truck rollover, apparently with some kind of nasty hazmat involved. Looking back, I see I didn't make that clear.

This was an insane backup. They had seven miles of traffic getting off at the exit, crossing over a four-lane highway, and back onto the Interstate. They were giving priority to the local street, and making the traffic trying to get through the Interstate wait. They were letting about 10 vehicles go, then shutting it down for about 10 minutes. It takes a long time to filter seven miles times two lanes through 10 vehicles at a time. That was the most absurd fuster cluck I've ever seen (wellll, the most absurd fuster cluck I've ever seen on a clear blue day in a relatively rural part of the world.) We never really stopped, but we were only rolling at an average 1.75 mph. It all became clear when I finally got to the exit. Roll about 10 carlengths, then sit for 10 minutes. Repeat.

I could have been warned hours in advance, but I wasn't. I don't call 511 unless I have some indication that it's necessary, eg. a blinking sign saying "ACCIDENT AT MM 23 SB, CALL 511 FOR INFO" or "TUNE RADIO TO 1620 FOR TRAFFIC INFO" or something.

There was nothing until I was so close to the exit that I might have rolled over if I tried to make it in that short a distance. I got hung out to dry.

It had been going on for 10 hours by the time I got there, so I COULD have been warned, but I wasn't. No fleet message, nothing on the CB until too late, nothing on the FM radio. Not that I am legally required to listen to either CB or FM anyway, unless there is a flashing "TUNE RADIO TO" sign, which there was not.

Most states would have put up a flashing portable sign for something that was going to run this long. Tennessee didn't. I've run into that kind of thing in the past in that state. Tennessee doesn't seem to be very good at handling this kind of situation.

Rev.Vassago · Joined: 04 Apr 2006 Posts: 5197 Location: Green Bay, WI

silvan wrote: I do know the route. I know where all the construction is. This wasn't construction. It was a truck rollover, apparently with some kind of nasty hazmat involved. Looking back, I see I didn't make that clear.

It was clear enough for me. :wink:

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