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newbieTrucker
Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 9:27 am Post subject: concerning off duty time ? |
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I just have an interesting question about bobtailing , if your off duty / out of drive time for the day and are in or around a place of interest and obviously your truck is your only mode of transportation are you allowed to drive or vice versa if your done with your delivery and have some time is that counted toward your hours for the day and if so will the DOT stations still require you to stop in.
I know this question sounds kind of silly and theres an obvious answer to it , but i just want to see the response i get . |
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thebaldeagle655
Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 272
Location: Wichita Falls, Tx
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 10:31 am Post subject: |
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The HOS "Driving" line must be used any time you are "driving". As such, it does not matter whether you are loaded, unloaded or whatever. If you are on your "10 or 34 hour break" and you drive a commercial vehicle and you are required to log it (ie. more than 150 miles radius or other exempt status) then you not only must log it but it does count against your total.
I disagree with the law in that as you say, while on our time off this basically requires you to either sit in a truck cab all weekend or get a taxi. I feel that a little leeway here by the FMCSA would actually result in a bit more rest for us the drivers BUT as we all know, some of us would try to claim they were off-duty and drive several hundred miles and abuse any loophole we were given.
I know that a lot of drivers do use their trucks to go places while off-duty and don't show it on the log BUT, get in a wreck and see what happens!! You are taking a risk that may not be worth it if you do drive during out of hours times! |
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Rev.Vassago
Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 5172
Location: Green Bay, WI
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 10:46 am Post subject: |
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thebaldeagle655 wrote: The HOS "Driving" line must be used any time you are "driving". As such, it does not matter whether you are loaded, unloaded or whatever. If you are on your "10 or 34 hour break" and you drive a commercial vehicle and you are required to log it (ie. more than 150 miles radius or other exempt status) then you not only must log it but it does count against your total.
Better recheck that. Ever hear of the "personal conveyance" exception? |
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flood
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 545
Location: tennesse
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 11:20 am Post subject: |
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Rev.Vassago wrote: thebaldeagle655 wrote: The HOS "Driving" line must be used any time you are "driving". As such, it does not matter whether you are loaded, unloaded or whatever. If you are on your "10 or 34 hour break" and you drive a commercial vehicle and you are required to log it (ie. more than 150 miles radius or other exempt status) then you not only must log it but it does count against your total.
Better recheck that. Ever hear of the "personal conveyance" exception?
good call Rev... but if i remember it right ONLY an o/o can used it. ie your truck not company truck, i don't know if a lease driver can. |
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Rev.Vassago
Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 5172
Location: Green Bay, WI
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 11:29 am Post subject: |
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flood wrote: good call Rev... but if i remember it right ONLY an o/o can used it. ie your truck not company truck, i don't know if a lease driver can.
Nope - anyone can use it if their company has released them from duty. And you cannot be pulling a trailer. |
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flood
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 545
Location: tennesse
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| cool thx i knew o/o's could didn't know if i could use it |
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golfhobo
Joined: 16 Oct 2005
Posts: 3830
Location: the 19th hole / NC
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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Rev.Vassago wrote: thebaldeagle655 wrote: The HOS "Driving" line must be used any time you are "driving". As such, it does not matter whether you are loaded, unloaded or whatever. If you are on your "10 or 34 hour break" and you drive a commercial vehicle and you are required to log it (ie. more than 150 miles radius or other exempt status) then you not only must log it but it does count against your total.
Better recheck that. Ever hear of the "personal conveyance" exception?
Yeah!.... It's right next to the "Adverse Conditions exception!" :wink: |
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Rev.Vassago
Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 5172
Location: Green Bay, WI
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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golfhobo wrote:
Yeah!.... It's right next to the "Adverse Conditions exception!" :wink:
I was waiting for that. :lol: |
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kc0iv
Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 1081
Location: Kansas City, MO
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 6:37 am Post subject: |
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Rev.Vassago wrote: flood wrote: good call Rev... but if i remember it right ONLY an o/o can used it. ie your truck not company truck, i don't know if a lease driver can.
Nope - anyone can use it if their company has released them from duty. And you cannot be pulling a trailer.
Nothing in the rules that says you can't pull a TRAILER. Only says it can't be loaded.
kc0iv |
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Rev.Vassago
Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 5172
Location: Green Bay, WI
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 8:05 am Post subject: |
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kc0iv wrote: Rev.Vassago wrote: flood wrote: good call Rev... but if i remember it right ONLY an o/o can used it. ie your truck not company truck, i don't know if a lease driver can.
Nope - anyone can use it if their company has released them from duty. And you cannot be pulling a trailer.
Nothing in the rules that says you can't pull a TRAILER. Only says it can't be loaded.
kc0iv
Quote: Question 26: If a driver is permitted to use a CMV for personal reasons, how must the driving time be recorded?
Guidance: When a driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work, time spent traveling from a driver's home to his/her terminal (normal work reporting location), or from a driver's terminal to his/her home, may be considered off-duty time. Similarly, time spent traveling short distances from a driver's en route lodgings (such as en route terminals or motels) to restaurants in the vicinity of such lodgings may be considered off-duty time. The type of conveyance used from the terminal to the driver's home, from the driver's home to the terminal, or to restaurants in the vicinity of en route lodgings would not alter the situation unless the vehicle is laden. A driver may not operate a laden CMV as a personal conveyance. The driver who uses a motor carrier's CMV for transportation home, and is subsequently called by the employing carrier and is then dispatched from home, would be on-duty from the time the driver leaves home.
A driver placed out of service for exceeding the requirements of the hours of service regulations may not drive a CMV to any location to obtain rest.
While it does say that a laden CMV cannot be used for personal conveyance, neither can a dispatched one. If DOT stops you, you are going to have to be able to prove that you are not under dispatch, because if you aren't, you are not relieved of all work and responsibility of performing work. How are you going to do that when you are dragging a trailer around? |
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kc0iv
Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 1081
Location: Kansas City, MO
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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Rev.Vassago wrote: kc0iv wrote: Rev.Vassago wrote: flood wrote: good call Rev... but if i remember it right ONLY an o/o can used it. ie your truck not company truck, i don't know if a lease driver can.
Nope - anyone can use it if their company has released them from duty. And you cannot be pulling a trailer.
Nothing in the rules that says you can't pull a TRAILER. Only says it can't be loaded.
kc0iv
Quote: Question 26: If a driver is permitted to use a CMV for personal reasons, how must the driving time be recorded?
Guidance: When a driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work, time spent traveling from a driver's home to his/her terminal (normal work reporting location), or from a driver's terminal to his/her home, may be considered off-duty time. Similarly, time spent traveling short distances from a driver's en route lodgings (such as en route terminals or motels) to restaurants in the vicinity of such lodgings may be considered off-duty time. The type of conveyance used from the terminal to the driver's home, from the driver's home to the terminal, or to restaurants in the vicinity of en route lodgings would not alter the situation unless the vehicle is laden. A driver may not operate a laden CMV as a personal conveyance. The driver who uses a motor carrier's CMV for transportation home, and is subsequently called by the employing carrier and is then dispatched from home, would be on-duty from the time the driver leaves home.
A driver placed out of service for exceeding the requirements of the hours of service regulations may not drive a CMV to any location to obtain rest.
While it does say that a laden CMV cannot be used for personal conveyance, neither can a dispatched one. If DOT stops you, you are going to have to be able to prove that you are not under dispatch, because if you aren't, you are not relieved of all work and responsibility of performing work. How are you going to do that when you are dragging a trailer around?
Two points Rev.
1. The first part you quoted "The type of conveyance used from the terminal to the driver's home" doesn't define only Bobtail. And as you said the vehicle CAN NOT be laden.
In addition for D.O.T. to not include pulling a trailer goes against the phrase "laden". How else can a driver pull an unladen trailer.
2. Proving you are not under dispatch would be easy for those that have Q-Com. A call to dispatch would prove you have been relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work. In addition if you are keeping your log up-to-date (last duty status) your log would show your are your own time relieved from work and show you are on line 1 (OFF DUTY).
Nope REV this is one time you are wrong. Which doesn't happen very often.
kc0iv |
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Markk9
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 38
Location: PA
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: While it does say that a laden CMV cannot be used for personal conveyance, neither can a dispatched one. If DOT stops you, you are going to have to be able to prove that you are not under dispatch, because if you aren't, you are not relieved of all work and responsibility of performing work. How are you going to do that when you are dragging a trailer around?
The company I drive for states we are relieved of duty on the QualComm, when we report empty at the final drop before TAH. I have been stopped in PA and NY and both times had zero problems. In my logbook I flag the time and put relieved of duty. At the time I was pulling an empty trailer.
Unladen means no load, you may pull an empty trailer. But as stated by others you can't be under dispatch, getting your next load.
Mark |
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Rev.Vassago
Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 5172
Location: Green Bay, WI
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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kc0iv wrote:
2. Proving you are not under dispatch would be easy for those that have Q-Com. A call to dispatch would prove you have been relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work. In addition if you are keeping your log up-to-date (last duty status) your log would show your are your own time relieved from work and show you are on line 1 (OFF DUTY).
And for those of us who don't have qualcomm? |
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Markk9
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 38
Location: PA
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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Rev.Vassago wrote: kc0iv wrote:
2. Proving you are not under dispatch would be easy for those that have Q-Com. A call to dispatch would prove you have been relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work. In addition if you are keeping your log up-to-date (last duty status) your log would show your are your own time relieved from work and show you are on line 1 (OFF DUTY).
And for those of us who don't have qualcomm?
A call to your company, or if given a ticket, a letter from your company would work. If you are the company, then you have your Bills and paper work.
You are not going to fight this out with the cop writing the ticket, but the DA after you request a court date.
I received a log book ticket in NJ for the being on line 1, went to court and gave the DA a copy of the FMCSA’s guidance questions and he dropped and case and told the trooper to reread the rules.
Mark |
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thebaldeagle655
Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 272
Location: Wichita Falls, Tx
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry guys, did a search on the questions and the HOS regulations and didn't find the info that was posted that shows me wrong.
THANKS |
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