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banditt11
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:07 pm Post subject: Detroit 60 randomly will not start |
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| I have a 2000 FLD 120 Freightliner with the Detroit series 60 engine. Lately It will just spin over at normal rpm but will not start until I give it a bit of ether. Then at times it will start just like a brand new truck. No matter how much fuel in the tanks or no specific time before it will not start. I have tried to figure a pattern but it is just to random and often. Truck exibits no problems while I drive it. I am planning to take it to Freightliner Thursday. Just thought you folks might have an idea on this. |
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bob h
Joined: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 675
Location: Nb
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: Detroit 60 randomly will not start |
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banditt11 wrote: I have a 2000 FLD 120 Freightliner with the Detroit series 60 engine. Lately It will just spin over at normal rpm but will not start until I give it a bit of ether. Then at times it will start just like a brand new truck. No matter how much fuel in the tanks or no specific time before it will not start. I have tried to figure a pattern but it is just to random and often. Truck exibits no problems while I drive it. I am planning to take it to Freightliner Thursday. Just thought you folks might have an idea on this.
so, when it does this, it will absolutely not start without a sniff of "death in a can"?
how long do you crank?
any fault codes show up?
does the tach move during crank?
does it run rough or smoke after it does start?
could this happen after the vehicle has sat for only an hour or so? |
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banditt11
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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Hello Bob and thank you for a response.
so, when it does this, it will absolutely not start without a sniff of "death in a can"?
*** that is correct.
how long do you crank?
***Anywhere from 5 to maybe 8 seconds. I stop for a second and then do the same thing.
any fault codes show up?
***No fault codes although the "check engine" green light comes on as I work the starter then goes off immediately when I let off the starter.
does the tach move during crank?
*** good question I have not noticed that. But will check.
does it run rough or smoke after it does start?
***no rough running or smoke. Everything is as if it started normally.
could this happen after the vehicle has sat for only an hour or so?
***That is the kicker, There is no real pattern to follow. It is really random. Like today I get in the truck this morning and it just spins over normal short of starting. I then add the ether and it starts fine. I drive a couple hours and shut it off for about a half hour and same thing. I go around the building to reload and sit maybe a half hour and it starts right up like normal. Thanks for any thoughts on this. |
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bob h
Joined: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 675
Location: Nb
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:12 am Post subject: |
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banditt11 wrote: Hello Bob and thank you for a response.
so, when it does this, it will absolutely not start without a sniff of "death in a can"?
*** that is correct.
how long do you crank?
***Anywhere from 5 to maybe 8 seconds. I stop for a second and then do the same thing.
any fault codes show up?
***No fault codes although the "check engine" green light comes on as I work the starter then goes off immediately when I let off the starter.
does the tach move during crank?
*** good question I have not noticed that. But will check.
does it run rough or smoke after it does start?
***no rough running or smoke. Everything is as if it started normally.
could this happen after the vehicle has sat for only an hour or so?
***That is the kicker, There is no real pattern to follow. It is really random. Like today I get in the truck this morning and it just spins over normal short of starting. I then add the ether and it starts fine. I drive a couple hours and shut it off for about a half hour and same thing. I go around the building to reload and sit maybe a half hour and it starts right up like normal. Thanks for any thoughts on this.
you can safely crank for 30 seconds, but i don't think it will matter in your situation, i was suspecting fuel drain-back... but i don't think so anymore.
...sounds electronic, you'll have to have someone monitor data stream on a scanner/laptop to see what's missing (while it's acting up); it is likely a missing engine position/speed signal.
if you want a very random, uneducated silver bullet, you could try replaceing the TRS (timing reference sensor located near the crank in the bottom of the gear case) it provides engine speed signal to the ecm, and might be the cause of your problem, the SRS (synchronous reference sensor located by the air compressor) could cause the same complaint, maybe you could unplug each and check for damaged terminals, etc.. but i would recommend getting it scanned to be sure, as this sensor replacement idea is a shot in the dark |
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banditt11
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Bob. Yeah I got to thinking about just changing certain things in hope it would fix it. In the end though I just took it to Freightliner and let them have at it, hey whats 88 bucks an hour huh! . I will let you know what they find as soon as I get it back.
Frank |
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sidman82
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 410
Location: Long Island,NY
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Try new batteries. My truck was doing something similar. There was not enough voltage in my batteries to send proper signal to ECM. After new batteries problem gone. Give it a shot before you bring it to dealer. |
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banditt11
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| The batteries I have are not even a year old. They definitly spin the engine up. Although I have a coworker that did have a problem like that and bought new batteries and replaced some ground wires and it straightened his truck right out. |
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banditt11
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:12 am Post subject: |
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Looks like Bob is the winner! Just got a call from Freightliner and they said I needed The TRS and the SRS plus 3 fuel lines which showed signs of wear. Now to guess the bill :roll: Thanks for the input on this folks :wink:
Frank |
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bob h
Joined: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 675
Location: Nb
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| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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banditt11 wrote: Looks like Bob is the winner! Just got a call from Freightliner and they said I needed The TRS and the SRS plus 3 fuel lines which showed signs of wear. Now to guess the bill :roll: Thanks for the input on this folks :wink:
Frank
odd that both sensors would fail at the same time... did either have metal filings on the tip? |
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banditt11
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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I thought about that too Bob but was just glad to get the truck back and be done with the problems I was having. As for the metal filings I did not get an answer on that as it was a Saturday that I picked it up and the desk guy was busy answering the darn phone. I just paid and left. :roll:
Thanks again for your feedback on my question Bob. Much appreciated.
Frank |
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stranger
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:30 am Post subject: |
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I would bet on metal shaving on the sensors, either from the bull gears, or the accessory drive bearings going bad and dropping metal in the pan.
Check for looseness in the accessory drive pulley with the belt off. Oil leakage around the accessory drive will also be a sigh of bad bearings.
Or, the sensor could have just been bad, or if metal was present, it could just be normal build up from age and miles.
Glad it is fixed. |
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bob h
Joined: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 675
Location: Nb
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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I would bet on metal shaving on the sensors, either from the bull gears, or the accessory drive bearings going bad and dropping metal in the pan.
Check for looseness in the accessory drive pulley with the belt off. Oil leakage around the accessory drive will also be a sigh of bad bearings.
exactly.
or..., a good tech will find the chunks in the pan while draining the engine oil
Or, the sensor could have just been bad, or if metal was present, it could just be normal build up from age and miles.
the filings can mess up the sensor's signal
metal build-up from "age and miles" should be removed by oil/filter changes
Glad it is fixed.
""
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banditt11
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Ok I just got back with the Freightliner repair facility that did my repair for the no start problem. It was explained to me that the SRS sensor was not sending a signal because of bad windings in the sensor. It was noted there was no noticable metal on that magnetic sensor and that it was specifically the winding inside and was told in all probability that constant heat for as old as it was was the reason for failure. As for the other sensor (TRS) they replace it as a precaution. That is fine with me as the parts only ran 60.00 and 44.00 respectivly. Better safe than sorry far as I'm concerned. :wink: |
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stranger
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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Good deal. If one was bad then the other probably was not far behind.
Glad to hear there was no noticeable metal. Sounds like you are good to go. |
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Blue Heeler
Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 39
Location: south of I 40 in NC
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| I have a Star with the Detroit 60 that when ever it feels like it, it takes about 20+ seconds to crank. this ONLY happens after the truck sits over night. some mornings it starts like it cant wait to run, & some mornings it is a bear to start. temp. has nothing to do with it. 20* or if it sits until late afternoon in the summer @ 90*. I was thinking about the fuel loosing it's prime but it's done it for over 2 years & has not gotten any worse. |
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