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danj_otr · Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:07 pm Post subject: 34 Hour Restart & DOT Regs

The reason why I bring this topic up is because of the fact that there is a lot of chatter on the radio about issues such as the 34 hour reset rule.

Some say, and it is what I was taught:
If you take 34 hours off on either line 3 or 4 it is subject to a legal reset regardless of where you are located.

Others say, and it is what I disagree with:
You have to take your 34 hour reset at your home terminal.

Now, as I have looked through the Regs book on HOS. I have read through a number of different issues and it appears, to me, that they are vague at best.

Am I the only one who feels this way, and is there any publications that have the current regs that put it in a light that does not portray the law as having a gray area?

Uturn2001 · Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:33 pm Post subject:

Well first off, taking 34 hours on lines 3 and 4 will get you into a bunch of trouble fast. :P :P

Line 3 is driving and line 4 is On duty not driving. I think you meant lines 1 an 2. (at least on a standard US log book)

Quote: (e)(2)(viii) Any period of 7 or 8 consecutive days may end with the beginning of any off-duty period of 34 or more consecutive hours.

Not too sure what is vague about that. Says nothing about being at home or at your home terminal or anything.

And then there is this from the FAQ's

Quote: G-1. May a driver spend part of his or her 34-hours of consecutive off-duty time in a sleeper berth?

Yes, provided the 34-hour period is consecutive and not broken by on-duty or driving activities.

Seems pretty straight forward to me.

The reason you hear so much disinformation on the Cb is two-fold. The first is people who never research anything for themselves and 2. Thos who do know better but delight in being idiots and leading everyone who will listen to them astray.

Anyway, while I do agree that there are some FMCSA regs that can be a little confusing in and of themselves, if you take the time to look up the FAQ's and also the guidences provided for many of those regs things do become a lot more clear.

tndieselgrl · Joined: 01 Sep 2005 Posts: 534 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma

Well, first off you can't take 34 hours off on lines three or four, I'm assuming you're talking about lines 1 and 2 :wink:

I have a book around here somewhere that I think shows it a little clearer, but I'm in the middle of packing, so god only knows which box it's in....

But. I've taken many a 34-hour restart, and almost never has it been at a terminal, and I don't think I've ever taken it at my "home" terminal. I've had my logs looked at by DOT with no problems, and never carried a logbook violation for any company I've worked for.

EDIT - Dangit man, I was sitting here clicking post when you said what I did :wink:

danj_otr · Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:36 pm Post subject:

Sorry Had a blonde moment there :) It's been a while since I looked at a log book :?

Yeah, all my point was to bring attention to some of the laws that are not as specific as they should be. I used the 34 hour rule because of the amount of time I hear chatter on the CB about it that's all :)

Uturn2001 wrote: Well first off, taking 34 hours on lines 3 and 4 will get you into a bunch of trouble fast. :P :P

Line 3 is driving and line 4 is On duty not driving. I think you meant lines 1 an 2. (at least on a standard US log book)

Quote: (e)(2)(viii) Any period of 7 or 8 consecutive days may end with the beginning of any off-duty period of 34 or more consecutive hours.

Not too sure what is vague about that. Says nothing about being at home or at your home terminal or anything.

And then there is this from the FAQ's

Quote: G-1. May a driver spend part of his or her 34-hours of consecutive off-duty time in a sleeper berth?

Yes, provided the 34-hour period is consecutive and not broken by on-duty or driving activities.

Seems pretty straight forward to me.

The reason you hear so much disinformation on the Cb is two-fold. The first is people who never research anything for themselves and 2. Thos who do know better but delight in being idiots and leading everyone who will listen to them astray.

Anyway, while I do agree that there are some FMCSA regs that can be a little confusing in and of themselves, if you take the time to look up the FAQ's and also the guidences provided for many of those regs things do become a lot more clear.

Skywalker · Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:44 pm Post subject:

danj_otr wrote: Yeah, all my point was to bring attention to some of the laws that are not as specific as they should be. I used the 34 hour rule because of the amount of time I hear chatter on the CB about it that's all :)

Actually, if one reads the regulations without putting any personal inflection, interpretation, or opinions into the reading they are quite straight forward.

Simply stated: 34 consecutive hours off duty, without or without sleeper berth periods....gets you a reset of your 70 hours. Doesn't matter where it occurs, you can even be hanging by your heels over a well.... :shock:

There is an old saying that goes like this, and any military veteran will recognize it: Don't believe anything you hear, and only half of what you see with your own eyes.

Turn the CB lawyers off.....99% haven't a clue, literally.

What you need to do is get one of the FMCSR books that includes the "interpretations" and "guidance" sections that you do not have in the small pocketbook you have now. The book with the guidance and interpretations is what the DOT uses.... 8)

danj_otr · Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:12 pm Post subject:

Yeah, I keep the FMCSA Bible in the pocket in the drivers door for those occasional readings when I wasn't doing anything.

You make a good point though. You have to read it for what it is. Sometimes, though, you have to wonder and that is what will get you in trouble at times!

tndieselgrl · Joined: 01 Sep 2005 Posts: 534 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma

Skywalker wrote: What you need to do is get one of the FMCSR books that includes the "interpretations" and "guidance" sections that you do not have in the small pocketbook you have now. The book with the guidance and interpretations is what the DOT uses.... 8)

I received this one in Arrow's orientation. While I like having the pocketbook sized one for ease of carry, the one with the interpretations are worth their weight in gold.

Purchase it here

danj_otr · Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:09 pm Post subject:

Perfect! I will get one along with the standard reading material :)

Skywalker · Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:55 pm Post subject:

tndieselgrl wrote: Skywalker wrote: What you need to do is get one of the FMCSR books that includes the "interpretations" and "guidance" sections that you do not have in the small pocketbook you have now. The book with the guidance and interpretations is what the DOT uses.... 8)

I received this one in Arrow's orientation. While I like having the pocketbook sized one for ease of carry, the one with the interpretations are worth their weight in gold.

Purchase it here

Hey, :D :D Thanks for posting the picture and the link!! I tried to remember the link and couldn't. It was on my old laptop that crashed :sad: I'm going through some tanker training up here in Kingsport, TN and Superior gave us all the new copy that you show in the picture here.

These things are worth their weight in gold no doubt!! Any driver who doesn't have one leaves themselves open to being misguided or taken advantage of.

And the beauty of this book is that it is not written in "legalese", but written in standard english.

tndieselgrl · Joined: 01 Sep 2005 Posts: 534 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma

No problem! If more drivers actually understood the laws, more of us would stop making silly errors that could be easily avoided. :wink:

danj_otr · Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:49 pm Post subject:

That is the whole point I was trying to make :)

Alot of the laws that are there are not always the written the best. I have to do more looking into the laws so I can get a better understanding and so that if I run into a log violation that I know is farse, then I can have a better chance at fighting it.

I had a 14 hour violation when I was with Swift that I was never able to clear. I had gotten stuck on 140 heading to Klamath Falls, when I had ignorantly pulled my chains off BEFORE climbing the final hill before heading into town. Of the chains I had, I had 3 break on me, and I ended up chaining up one drive and one trailer tire (2 is better than none).

I then was towed up the hill and was told by OSP to get to the Wagon Wheel truck stop in Klamath Falls. So, under their direction, I did just that. Swift was aware of that, and after fighting with them over the issue, they still pinned me with it citing that I did not get a business card from the OSP Trooper that was there with me.

I went over my 14 by 1 hour (I spent 3 hours stuck), and still was legal, and it was stated as so on my logs... If I would have really pushed the issue and read up on the legalities, I would not have had this issue.

NevadaJim · Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 251 Location: Las Vegas

I haven't started yet but trying to bone up on the reg and logging, so bear with me on this. Can someone give a quickie explanation on what the 60/70 and 7/8 mean. I'm having a problem understanding when the 34 hours has to start. Does this mean that I'm sitting on my ass for 34 hours every week, at some point? I guess what I'm asking is what has to happen for me to be forced to sit on my thumb for 34 hours.

Rev.Vassago · Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:55 am Post subject:

NevadaJim wrote: I haven't started yet but trying to bone up on the reg and logging, so bear with me on this. Can someone give a quickie explanation on what the 60/70 and 7/8 mean.

You cannot drive after you have accumulated 60 hours in 7 days (if the carrier does not operate 7 days a week), or 70 hours in 8 days (if the carrier operates every day of the week). This means that, even if YOU don't run every day of the week, but the carrier has trucks on the road every day of the week, you go by the 70/8 rule.

Quote: I'm having a problem understanding when the 34 hours has to start.

It can start whenever you want it to. It is not mandatory, but must consist of Sleeper Berth, Off Duty, or any combination of the two.

Quote: Does this mean that I'm sitting on my ass for 34 hours every week, at some point? I guess what I'm asking is what has to happen for me to be forced to sit on my thumb for 34 hours.

It is not mandatory, but is a way to reset your 60/70 hour clock to zero.

Part Time Dweller · Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:29 am Post subject:

Rev.Vassago wrote: NevadaJim wrote: I haven't started yet but trying to bone up on the reg and logging, so bear with me on this. Can someone give a quickie explanation on what the 60/70 and 7/8 mean.

You cannot drive after you have accumulated 60 hours in 7 days (if the carrier does not operate 7 days a week), or 70 hours in 8 days (if the carrier operates every day of the week). This means that, even if YOU don't run every day of the week, but the carrier has trucks on the road every day of the week, you go by the 70/8 rule.

That's funny, listening to the BBR's one would think 60/70 is the average speed you log going through any big city and 7/8 is what you log on line 1 or 2 when you sit in the dock for that long. :P

NevadaJim · Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 251 Location: Las Vegas

Rev.Vassago wrote: NevadaJim wrote: I haven't started yet but trying to bone up on the reg and logging, so bear with me on this. Can someone give a quickie explanation on what the 60/70 and 7/8 mean.

You cannot drive after you have accumulated 60 hours in 7 days (if the carrier does not operate 7 days a week), or 70 hours in 8 days (if the carrier operates every day of the week). This means that, even if YOU don't run every day of the week, but the carrier has trucks on the road every day of the week, you go by the 70/8 rule.

Quote: I'm having a problem understanding when the 34 hours has to start.

It can start whenever you want it to. It is not mandatory, but must consist of Sleeper Berth, Off Duty, or any combination of the two.

Quote: Does this mean that I'm sitting on my ass for 34 hours every week, at some point? I guess what I'm asking is what has to happen for me to be forced to sit on my thumb for 34 hours.

It is not mandatory, but is a way to reset your 60/70 hour clock to zero.

So if I drive 69 hours in 8 days then I don't need a 34 restart? Or is there a restart every 8 days regardless. Can the restart be avoided or is it mandatory every 70 hours? I'm assuming the 70 hours means 70 hours of driving time.

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