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golfhobo
Joined: 16 Oct 2005
Posts: 4227
Location: the 19th hole / NC
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:25 pm Post subject: '05 FL Columbia / Benz engine / lost it's PRIME??? |
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Okay, so they tell me that if I shut the truck off, it won't start - or is real hard to start. Something about losing it's PRIME. Been in the FL shop for days and they can't figure it out. New fuel pump didn't help. Using a "bypass" fuel line didn't help.
Any suggestions from the REAL mechanics???
If U can't help understand the problem.... how about this? If it accidentaly shuts off on me on my next trip... HOW would I manually prime it to get it started?
Thanks! |
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Birken Vogt
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 102
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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I can't say much but those Benz engines are very poorly understood by mechanics here in the states who were born and raised on the big 3 American ones. I think your best bet would be to find a Detroit Diesel shop with a mechanic who specializes in these at this point. Detroit is the one who is supposed to have the people capable of the service on these but even with them it is hit and miss....
Birken |
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bob h
Joined: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 670
Location: Nb
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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Birken Vogt wrote: I can't say much but those Benz engines are very poorly understood by mechanics here in the states who were born and raised on the big 3 American ones. I think your best bet would be to find a Detroit Diesel shop with a mechanic who specializes in these at this point. Detroit is the one who is supposed to have the people capable of the service on these but even with them it is hit and miss....
Birken
Engines are engines ;0) learn to fix 'em!
The ISX replaced the N14, the 3406E (C-15, C15) replaced the 3406 pushrod engine, the only 1 that's still the same is the S60, and it's hardly recognizable along side of the new ddec IV engine. Rumour has it the S60 is going away for the '10 emissions platform. All of the others have been changed-out by new/updated engines.
Cat, Cummins, and Detroit will all become optional engines in the near future.
Get used to the Truck OEM specific engines;
freightliner/sterling/star - MBE,
Navistar and Paccar both have a big-bore engine coming next year for their chassis.
Volvo and Mack of course have their own engines.
CAT and Mercedes both have drivelines (trans/diffs) for h/d trucks as well.
Peterbilt has also announced the introduction of production line hybrid trucks --- nothing's gonna be the way it used to be ... ever again, unfortunately.
There's my rant for the day... |
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Birken Vogt
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 102
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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Paccars engines will be rebranded Cummins for the time being anyway.
Birken |
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bob h
Joined: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 670
Location: Nb
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Birken Vogt wrote: Paccars engines will be rebranded Cummins for the time being anyway.
Birken
The '07 medium duty's are cummins engines with paccar badging... no more yellow-powered mediums. |
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golfhobo
Joined: 16 Oct 2005
Posts: 4227
Location: the 19th hole / NC
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| Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:50 am Post subject: |
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thanks for the replies. Actually FL took it to the Detroit place down the street. THAT's where the mechanics are still puzzling over it for 3 days now.
Wish me luck as I'll be taking it coast to coast this weekend, and it's REAL COLD out that way. If it shuts off, it won't restart. B-r-r-r-r !!!! |
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bob h
Joined: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 670
Location: Nb
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| Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:44 am Post subject: |
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golfhobo wrote: thanks for the replies. Actually FL took it to the Detroit place down the street. THAT's where the mechanics are still puzzling over it for 3 days now.
Wish me luck as I'll be taking it coast to coast this weekend, and it's REAL COLD out that way. If it shuts off, it won't restart. B-r-r-r-r !!!!
Will it start on ether?
If it's under warranty, and they cannot fix it... ask them for a can of ether... you know, just for the reaction ;0)
...you should consider all of this next time you go to buy a benz, all I hear about is mechanical issues and low power complaints... all to save a few bucks on a truck with no re-sale value. |
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Birken Vogt
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 102
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| Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:11 am Post subject: |
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The trouble with the Europeans and their products is that the mind set is more geared toward the institution be it the government or large company and the authority thereof. For instance I was taking an Allison transmissions class last spring from a guy who also taught Detroit Diesel and hence, Benz engines. He was talking about one thing, I think it was a fuel pump drive gear, that backed off its bolt and took out the motor commonly, due to a bad design. He brought this up with the company and they seemed taken aback that any grease knuckle mechanic should be able to tell their high class German engineers to do anything differently, after all, they were the ones with the fancy degrees! I have also noticied this with the new disc brakes of European design. They want all sorts of expensive special tools just to do regular service sometimes because they expect it will be taken back to them for service where here in the states we are used to a brake than ole Joe Bob can fix with nothing but a Budd socket, a pick, and a big pry bar. So my advice is before you buy anything European in origin, find out the details about service availability, cost, and track record.
Birken |
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bob h
Joined: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 670
Location: Nb
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| Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:20 am Post subject: |
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Birken Vogt wrote: The trouble with the Europeans and their products is that the mind set is more geared toward the institution be it the government or large company and the authority thereof. For instance I was taking an Allison transmissions class last spring from a guy who also taught Detroit Diesel and hence, Benz engines. He was talking about one thing, I think it was a fuel pump drive gear, that backed off its bolt and took out the motor commonly, due to a bad design. He brought this up with the company and they seemed taken aback that any grease knuckle mechanic should be able to tell their high class German engineers to do anything differently, after all, they were the ones with the fancy degrees! I have also noticied this with the new disc brakes of European design. They want all sorts of expensive special tools just to do regular service sometimes because they expect it will be taken back to them for service where here in the states we are used to a brake than ole Joe Bob can fix with nothing but a Budd socket, a pick, and a big pry bar. So my advice is before you buy anything European in origin, find out the details about service availability, cost, and track record.
Birken
i'm understanding that euro truck mans have already been using disc primarily for many years. don't forget that the american manufacturers are already pushing disc brakes here... hard.
furthermore... the old 16 1/2 x 7 brakes are going away shortly, larger brake shoe tables are required to meet NHTSA's new brake stopping distances. |
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Birken Vogt
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 102
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| Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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bob h wrote: i'm understanding that euro truck mans have already been using disc primarily for many years. don't forget that the american manufacturers are already pushing disc brakes here... hard.
The Europeans certainly have and they have been paying through the nose to get them serviced as well. But they are used to that so they apparently don't think much of it.
They are pushing them here but I have asked some mechanics about them and they say that they are nothing but trouble so far.
Quote: furthermore... the old 16 1/2 x 7 brakes are going away shortly, larger brake shoe tables are required to meet NHTSA's new brake stopping distances.
I have been informed that there will be some 16.5x10 or 11 drums available that meet the requirement, as well as the discs of course. What's the solution? I don't know but I do know that here shortly it will be a bad time to be buying new trucks.
Birken |
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stranger
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 12:07 am Post subject: |
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Has anyone thought to look at the check valve on the fuel water seperator at the fuel inlet line? I have seen these get stuck open, or get trash in them, and cause a lost prime condition.
We run 4 Mercedes engines, and all have had head gaskets before 200k miles, turbos on all four, idler pulleys, fuel rail leakage behind the plastic cover that reads Mercedes Benz on drivers side, exhaust leaks, oil filler tubes replaced (pre-EGR engines), and a busted clutch housing caused from too short motor mount bolts from the factory.
Ours do run quite well, pull good, and get around 6.75 to 7 mph, which is great for what we pull, and where we pull it.
I would hate to pay for the maintenance on these things though.
The EGR engines we use when ours are in the shop only get 5.8 to 6.3 MPG, and have less power. These engines are all going through head gaskets before 200k also, and the leasing company has around 100 of them I think. The EGR system has exhaust leaks also.
The engines have good low end grunt for a 12.8 liter, run out good, but lack severely in reliability.
The US version of the Mercedes engine is totally different from the European from what I understand. |
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Justruckin
Joined: 02 Dec 2006
Posts: 179
Location: SE Michigan
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| Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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My friend has the Mercedes in one of his 2005. It had a total power loss, and was getting difficult to start.
The problem was the fuel filter. There are "two" fuel filters on that motor. They changed it out and all was fine.
And that was after 5 days in the shop, 3 at Freightliner, and two at the Detroit shop, who put the truck on the dyno. That is when they discovered this second fuel filter.
My friend was pissed to say the least, a stinkin fuel filter that no one even knew was there! |
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bob h
Joined: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 670
Location: Nb
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:36 am Post subject: |
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Justruckin wrote: My friend has the Mercedes in one of his 2005. It had a total power loss, and was getting difficult to start.
The problem was the fuel filter. There are "two" fuel filters on that motor. They changed it out and all was fine.
And that was after 5 days in the shop, 3 at Freightliner, and two at the Detroit shop, who put the truck on the dyno. That is when they discovered this second fuel filter.
My friend was pissed to say the least, a stinkin fuel filter that no one even knew was there!
fuel inlet restriction test takes only a few minutes to perform... most technicians are smart enough to start with the basics --- that thing would have showed massive restriction. |
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Justruckin
Joined: 02 Dec 2006
Posts: 179
Location: SE Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:53 am Post subject: |
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bob h wrote: fuel inlet restriction test takes only a few minutes to perform... most technicians are smart enough to start with the basics --- that thing would have showed massive restriction.
I know, my buddy could not believe it went as far as it did. But like someone else said, there is not a heck of allot of knowledge regarding these Mercedes motors. And the truck was on a regular service schedule, and that one fuel filter was never changed in almost a year. It was the one put on at the factory! |
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bob h
Joined: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 670
Location: Nb
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:40 am Post subject: |
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Justruckin wrote: bob h wrote: fuel inlet restriction test takes only a few minutes to perform... most technicians are smart enough to start with the basics --- that thing would have showed massive restriction.
I know, my buddy could not believe it went as far as it did. But like someone else said, there is not a heck of allot of knowledge regarding these Mercedes motors. And the truck was on a regular service schedule, and that one fuel filter was never changed in almost a year. It was the one put on at the factory!
That's my point... you don't need to know anything about MBEs (which, I don't either) to know that inlet restriction and fuel pressure are primary steps in engine driveability diagnoses. The only people that end up in the scrape you just described are those who fail to check the basics.
The funny part is; next time they have a similar problem (or, any problem at all) with an MBE, they will immediately look for that fuel filter and change it WITHOUT any checks to warrant its replacement. |
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