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kc0iv · Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 1113 Location: Kansas City, MO

Windwalker wrote: You know, it would actually be very easy to set up a type of field-strength meter and triangulation type of receiver at the weigh stations around the country. Without a lot of investment, they could pin-point illegal radios as the guys come into the scale. Not just the illegal ham radios, but the poosted power radios that started life as a legal radio. The FCC does a lot of "going by ERP" these days. (Effective Radiated Power) It would be entirely possible to set up a couple of antennas at the perimeter of the scale property and pin-point any truck coming into the scale. Even going down the road past the scale. Look what they've done with radar detectors. I believe it's coming. Only a matter of time.

Windwalker,

I think it would be pretty hard on 27MHz. The problem would be the phase shift at that freq. would be so small it would require some pretty good equipment. Second problem would be the size of the antenna for it to have the directivity to detect this phase shift. Plus the transmitter would have to be transmiting while in this very narrow field.

Using "ERP" could show someone in the area was transmitting illegal but it would still require checking each transmitter to determine which one was illegal. One possibility would be to require every trucker to "key" his/her transmitter while it was at a given distance from the scale house. But with "Pre-Pass" not many go through the scale house. Again this would require some pretty good equipment.

As far as radar detectors these have the advantage of operating at a very high frequencies. They are detecting the heterodyne oscillator used in the mixer circuit. Since the mixer creates three different signals one of which is the sum of the frequency. Since the tuned ciruit in a radar detector requires a very wide tuned circuit (or like most just a diode) they pass this heterodyne signal. Then using this signal the "detector-detector" sees this signal. Or they detect the beat frequency oscillator directly. Even these "detector-detector" can be defected by using a different mixer circuit. Or as some do just turning of the detector when a etector-detector" is seen.

As many would like the FCC to stop the illegal operation I just don't see it happening. Yes they will catch a few but as the old saying says "the cat is out-of-bag". As much as some disaprove many hams support this type of pperation by doing the mods on these radios. One has to remember this has been going on since the 60's.

kc0iv

RadioRay · Joined: 15 Dec 2004 Posts: 165 Location: North Carolina

And *we*, the other licensed folks are the ones who are being 'punished' for it. I won't get into what I think ought to be done with/to licensed hams who assist in this illegal operation :evil: Here's where I think this going.
*If* drastic action is not taken now, little by little, more and more, people will "fill up" the 10 Meter band with unlicensed activity. Then there will become a demand for more of "them funny channels". And the unscrupulous builders will provide them. We will find these clowns on
12 Meters (some already are there), and, years out, they will be on 15 Meters and so on. In my discussions with Riley (yes, I 'kinda' know him since his home town is 30 miles from me), we have talked about this very thing. This is when he told me that *something* is in the works to combat such a thing. Drivers will not like it, that's probably true--at least the ones who love the "export" radios. It will involve a specific ban on such equipment in trucks, maybe getting DOT agents into the act, allowing states to share fines (in order to encourage the DOT and state oficers to get involved---I don't know, but something is "up". I feel sure, from what I am told, that there is something going to be done. The legal obstacles and wrangles have to be worked out.

What we DO know is, the trucks are NOT to be operating outside the 40 channels and that includes that which is "OURS" (the ham bands). Drivers have the option of becoming licensed, of course, and we DO encourage that because mobile ham and trucking ARE a good fit!!! :D

73

feederfred · Joined: 22 Jun 2006 Posts: 281 Location: Nevada

Nope, Brown doesn't have any restrictions on what we use. I run a Magnum S380 (4 finals) and a Texas Star 350HD, no problem. I know tons of FedEx people with a lot bigger set ups. As far as enforcement by the FCC, it's a joke. Take a look at their website. They NO LONGER routinely take complaints about CB radios. As far as export radios, the shops out here and on the net are full of them. "Radio inspectors", at the scale...sure, just what we need. Why not solve some real problems ? Seems there's a little jealousy involved here.

RadioRay · Joined: 15 Dec 2004 Posts: 165 Location: North Carolina

Here's the problem with that. If drivers with both companies are, indeed, operating illegal radios and amps, sooner or later, they are going to have a problem *If* they talk on 10 Meters without license. You see, both "brown" and FedEx received letters about drivers operating on 28.085. Both companies promised that they would stop it and responded to FCC's official correspondence with assurances that this would not happen again. They also assured FCC that they put into place a company policy against "10 Meter" radios or amps in their trucks. Now. If the drivers stay OUT of the ham bands, they probably won't have trouble. But if a driver gets reported to FCC AGAIN, then there's gonna be trouble both for the company AND the driver. That's when the polite warning will stop and enforcement WILL begin! :shock: I even have a copy of FexEx's company policy against "export" radios. UPS assured the Special Counsel for
Amateur Enforcement (FCC) that there was a policy now in place that restricted their trucks to strictly FCC-approved CB radios. I'll be sure to let my "friends" in certain places know that this policy is apparently not being followed along with a copy of this thread.

There is NO jealousy going on here. This is a matter of Federal law and the rights and privileges of other spectrum users. The Amateur Radio operators studied and took tests for the privilege of using various bands and modes with the expectation that such operation would be unfettered with unlicensed, untrained and unauthorized stations on their bands! The folks who just went out to Joe's Truck Stop and CB Shop didn't. The hams will not receive letters for operating on the 10 Meter band. The drivers who DO operate on 10 Meters can receive fines of up to $10,000 PER occurance IF they get caught after being warned NOT to talk out of band. Once again, most of us don't care what the CB folks do on 11 Meters--until they start venturing into the ham bands. Then it does become a matter of our concern.

As to FCC's "non-enforcement"? Maybe a glance at this will show that they aren't so much a "joke" as you might think.

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FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION ENFORCEMENT BUREAU SOUTH CENTRAL REGION Dallas Office 9330 LBJ Freeway, #1170 Dallas, Texas 75243 September 12, 2006 Jimmie Dewayne Richards Case Number: EB-06-DL-122 Irving, Texas Document Number: W20063250005 WARNING FOR UNLICENSED OPERATION The Dallas Office received information that you were operating a station in the Citizen Band (CB) with excessive power. On August 8, 2006, agents from this office inspected your station. The inspection of your station showed that you were using a Cobra 200 GTL DX transceiver. This transceiver has not been certificated by the FCC for use at a CB station. Thus, any operation of this station would be in violation of 47 U.S.C. S 301. Pursuant to Section 95.404 of the FCC's Rules ("Rules"), you do not need an individual license to operate a CB station, provided you operate your CB station in accordance with the Rules. Pursuant to Section 95.409 of the FCC's Rules, you must use an FCC certificated CB transmitter at your CB station. Use of a transmitter which is not FCC certificated voids the authority to operate the station. Therefore, any person operating a CB transmitter that is not FCC certificated or that has been modified internally or who attaches an external radio frequency power amplifier (linear amplifier) to a CB transmitter is by rule an unlicensed operator and is subject to severe penalties. The FCC presumes that you have used a linear or other external RF power amplifier if it is in your possession or on your premises. The FCC also presumes that you have used a linear or other external RF power amplifier if there is other evidence, such as on-scene monitoring equipment or power measurements that suggest you have been operating a CB station with excessive power. Violation of these Rules also voids the authority to operate a CB station. In addition, the Rules prohibit communicating or attempting to communicate with any CB station more than 250 kilometers away or installing a fixed antenna more than 60 feet above the ground or more than 20 feet higher than the highest point of the building or tree on which it is mounted. USE OF A NON-CERTIFIED CB TRANSMITTER, A MODIFIED CB TRANSMITTER, A POWER AMPLIFICATION DEVICE, OR IMPERMISSIBLY HIGH ANTENNA IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. You are hereby warned that operation of radio transmitting equipment without a valid FCC authorization or license is a violation of Section 301 of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended, and may subject the operator to substantial monetary fines, in rem arrest action against the offending radio equipment, and criminal sanctions including imprisonment. Because unlicensed operation creates a danger of interference to important radio communications services and may subject the operator to severe penalties, this warning emphasizes the importance of complying strictly with these legal requirements. Section 302(b) of the Act provides "No person shall manufacture, import, sell, offer for sale, or ship devices or home electronic equipment and systems, or use devices, which fail to comply with regulations promulgated pursuant to this section." Section 2.803(a)(1) of the Rules provides that "...no person shall sell or lease, or offer for sale or lease (including advertising for sale or lease), or import, ship or distribute for the purpose of selling or leasing or offering for sale or lease, any radio frequency device unless: (1) In the case of a device subject to certification, such device has been authorized by the Commission in accordance with the rules in this chapter and is properly identified and labeled..." The Cobra 200 GTL DX transceiver is not authorized by the Commission and as such you are warned that you may not sell or lease, or offer for sale or lease (including advertising for sale or lease) the Cobra 200 GTL DX transceiver. You have ten (10) days from the date of this notice to respond with any evidence that your station is now in compliance with the Rules. Your response should be sent to the address in the letterhead and reference the listed case and document number. Under the Privacy Act of 1974, 5 U.S.C. S 552a(e)(3), we are informing you that the Commission's staff will use all relevant material information before it to determine what, if any, enforcement action is required to ensure your compliance with FCC Rules. This will include any information that you disclose in your reply. You may contact this office if you have any questions. James D. Wells District Director Dallas Office Attachments: Excerpts from the Communications Act of 1934, As Amended Enforcement Bureau, "Inspection Fact Sheet", July 2003 Jimmie Dewayne Richards 3201 Dartmouth Dr. Irving, Texas 75062 TX 04508466 DOB 11-09-1954 47 C.F.R. S 95.404. 47 C.F.R. S 95.409. 47 C.F.R. S 95.404. See 47 C.F.R. SS 95.409, 95.411. 47 C.F.R. SS 95.408, 95.413. 47 U.S.C. S 301. See 47 U.S.C. SS 401, 501, 503, 510. 47 U.S.C. S 302a(b). 47 C.F.R. S 2.803(a)(1)
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There are some more against CB operators including "freebanding", amplifiers, non-approved equipment, fines to truck stops for selling "10 Meter radios. While FCC used[/] to be pretty inactive WRT CB, it is not so now because there have been so many complaints, and they are actually going after violators more than before! Even those base stations truckers fuss about so much!

The use of the "10 Meter" band by truckers without license is against the law. Period. And I am happy to hear that FCC IS in the process of doing something about it. It has nothing to do with "jealousy" or just being against the trucking industry. It is about right and wrong, and the privileges [i]earned by licensed people. Those who want such privileges they are stealing from others now may earn them, too, instead of filching them! :)

RR

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kc0iv · Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 1113 Location: Kansas City, MO

RadioRay,

After reading the last 6 months of FCC Amateur Radio Enforcement Logs (http://www.arrl.org/news/enforcement_logs) it would appear there are far more complaints about hams than there are for these illegal radios. What I find disturbing is the number of licensed hams that use illegal equipment or operate in portions of the amateur bands for which they are not licensed. Many of these complaints are by Extra Class who should know better.

While there has always been some complaints there seems to be many more the last few years. Without doing a study two things appear to be a leading causes for these increases. (1) The change from the requirement to appear before the FCCs for testing. I know there are many exams given that just are not real test. Yes they answers are right but I have seem testers tell the guy "are you sure you want to submit this -- Or do you want to go back to your seat and look at these some more". Hint you going to fail this test if you submit it like it is.

(2) The reduction in the requirement of knowing the material for the class of license. When you can go down and buy a book or download it on the web and have both the questions and answers (including the detractors) all one has to do is memorize the material.

Until hams get their act together how can they complain about illegal radios and illegal operation by CBers? To come on here and complain really isn't being honest.

I for one have refused to take the Extra Class test because I feel it is a joke. I should have taken years ago but I never thought it would come down to the level it has. I'll just keep my Advanced Class which I took before the FCCs. All one has to do is look at the number of Extra Class and it's not hard to see the test has been made easier. And I won't get into the reduction of the code requirement.

kc0iv

RadioRay · Joined: 15 Dec 2004 Posts: 165 Location: North Carolina

I absolutely agree with you on all points! The one difference I would postulate is that there are about 600,000 licensed hams in the US. Since CB radio is mostly unregulated (but STILL under the same rules it always was), there is no fair comparison between the two services. However, to say, well, the hams are getting 'X" number of violations from FCC while CBers are getting none is not an accurate picture of the situation--and I don't know how to come up with one under the current enforcement situation. It is not also not fair to indicate by the number of hams who DO get lettered somehow exonerates or justifies the number of actual CB violations that don't get reported. Just because CBers are not getting lettered, it doesn't mean that they are not breaking the law because of
Congress' lack of foresight and FCC's lack of funds.

The only way I could put forth my position on this is to say, yes, there ARE 3-4 ham NAL's or warnings each week on ARRL Letter or other enforcement logs. So that is about 9-12 a month---out of 600,000. If FCC were actually enforcing CB violations as they should, the numbers of CBers being lettered would PALE in comparison to that of the hams. 3-4 per week versus 600,000 who DO obey the rules really isn't all THAT bad. And many of those letters are because hams do somewhat police the bands of violators to keep the bands clean. :wink:

I also agree that the Amateur bands are being "dumbed down". This is the result of an "entitlement" mentality fostered by the dangerous liberal factions in this country with their social nonsense and experimentation. Everybody now screams "RIGHTS" RIGHTS, RIGHTS", and I am "special" so rules don't apply to me. Like you, I refused to advance beyond Advanced :) because of the dumbing down of the rules and exams, and also because of the code issue. And, of course, if you are against these things, you are "elitists", "stuck-up", or "just an old, 50+ year old buzzard that is irrelevant in today's society. That is a label so well-worn by the new generations so soft and used to having everything handed to them on a silver platter. They never had to really WORK for a darned thing, so why should they have to study for an Amateur license?

On complaining about illegal operators with illegal operators, I believe it IS appropriate to come here and let people know that what they are doing is WRONG. True, Amateur Radio is not perfect and has its misfits (like the would-be ham Gerritsen), to ignore ONE wrong [i}because of[/i]
another is also wrong. If the group that is regarded as not technically savvy and not required to know that their activity is wrong, then how are they to know at all? *Some* drivers, having had it explained to them, will
say, "WHOA! I didn't know this was illegal; I'll stay off those 'channels'"! And if it stops 1, 2, 3, or 20 drivers from filching the ham bands, it is worth it, I think! And, like the rogue hams, *some* will say, "I bought this here radio with them channels, and I'm gonna use 'em!" These are the ones who must be forced to stop that activity. Two wrongs don't make a right. If it is wrong on ham bands, it is just as wrong on CB. :D
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kc0iv · Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 1113 Location: Kansas City, MO

RadioRay wrote: I absolutely agree with you on all points! The one difference I would postulate is that there are about 600,000 licensed hams in the US. Since CB radio is mostly unregulated (but STILL under the same rules it always was), there is no fair comparison between the two services. However, to say, well, the hams are getting 'X" number of violations from FCC while CBers are getting none is not an accurate picture of the situation--and I don't know how to come up with one under the current enforcement situation. It is not also not fair to indicate by the number of hams who DO get lettered somehow exonerates or justifies the number of actual CB violations that don't get reported. Just because CBers are not getting lettered, it doesn't mean that they are not breaking the law because of
Congress' lack of foresight and FCC's lack of funds.

The same thing can be said about CBers. The majority of CBers operate in a legal manner. Only a small number have "kickers" and even fewer operate out-of-band. How many is anyones guess. The same can be said about hams. I'm sure illegal operations are alot higher than you think in the ham bands.

To blame congress is wrong. It was the FCCs that done away with the license of CB not congress. It was the FCC that allowed the import of linears. It was the FCC that allowed import of radios capable of operation outside of legal bands. About the only thing the FCC got right was the was a somewhat requirement on installation of 10 meter coils in amps.

There are very few of CBer that don't know what they are doing is wrong and/or illegal. What they know is the chance of getting caught is not much. What you see is companies write memos because some FCCer wrote a letter and that's as far as it goes. They respond to the FCC with a copy of their memo and put a copy in the file to cover their behind. As was said by another poster both UPS and FEX got such a letter but their drivers are still using illegal equipment. Lets face it the operation of the trucking companies as far CB operation is concern is a long way down on the food chain.

I think in most cases the same goes for the FCC. Some ham files a complaint about hearing a illegal operation. So the FCC writes a "form letter" with a thank-you to the ham. End of that complaint. Maybe a few time every of often they make a token action in a couple of cities and write a few warning. Big deal!!

But let a network show a bare breast (which was beyond their control) and boy do they go nuts. Big fines and threat of station license. Why? Because thoundands of people wrote letters. You don't have that kind of responce because of illegal operations on the ham or CB bands.

I think we have beat this horse about as far as we can.

Have a great day.

kc0iv

RadioRay · Joined: 15 Dec 2004 Posts: 165 Location: North Carolina

On a different and final(?) note, you might enjoy this little bit of info. Seems there was a steel company whose driver was caught jabbering on 10 Meters. It turns out that the OWNER is a licensed ham!!! When he got "his" letter, he was really MAD :evil: and called the driver in for a "meeting". The driver didn't just get his a$$ chewed out, the company owner/ham chewed around the edges and let it FALL out!! I'm told that the owner REALLY put a scolding on him!! :D :D This is according to you-know-who, Special Counsel for Amateur Enforcement!
I would've LOVED to have been a little mouse listening to THAT meeting! 8) This one hasn't been published, but I imagine it will show up in a week or two on ARRL enforcement log. :lol:

73

RR

Clay51 · Joined: 25 Feb 2006 Posts: 76

Last time I checked the regs, cw transmissions are legal on any frequency on the hf amateur bands with the exception of the 60 meter band.

Hope the FCC continues to crack down on the illegal radios.

Did a casual run for a company once, and found the regular driver had a converted 10 meter radio in the truck. Should have taken a hammer to it.

kc0iv · Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 1113 Location: Kansas City, MO

Clay51 wrote: Last time I checked the regs, cw transmissions are legal on any frequency on the hf amateur bands with the exception of the 60 meter band.

Hope the FCC continues to crack down on the illegal radios.

Did a casual run for a company once, and found the regular driver had a converted 10 meter radio in the truck. Should have taken a hammer to it.
Last time I checked the regulations there is no 60 meter band used by amateur band.

Second question is how could you tell the radio was a converted 10 meter radio and not a legal ham band radio?

kc0iv

RadioRay · Joined: 15 Dec 2004 Posts: 165 Location: North Carolina

kc0iv wrote: Clay51 wrote: Last time I checked the regs, cw transmissions are legal on any frequency on the hf amateur bands with the exception of the 60 meter band.

Hope the FCC continues to crack down on the illegal radios.

Did a casual run for a company once, and found the regular driver had a converted 10 meter radio in the truck. Should have taken a hammer to it.
Last time I checked the regulations there is no 60 meter band used by amateur band.

Second question is how could you tell the radio was a converted 10 meter radio and not a legal ham band radio?

kc0iv

Uh, reference the 60 Meter band. Those are the 5 MHZ "channelized" frequencies with a 50 watt ERP rating. They are designed to be shared with government agencies such as FEMA and hams in an emergencies. If you go to QRZ, you will read where ARRL has petitioned FCC to allow full 100 watt ERP and a change in one frequency to get away from a gov't digital operation that seems to always be on the air. I never have used those frequencies because I don't want to accidentally exceed the ERP requirements. NTIA has filed no objection to the changes, and when/if these changes are approved, then I might try it. 8)

73

RR

kc0iv · Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 1113 Location: Kansas City, MO

RadioRay wrote:

Uh, reference the 60 Meter band. Those are the 5 MHZ "channelized" frequencies with a 50 watt ERP rating. They are designed to be shared with government agencies such as FEMA and hams in an emergencies. If you go to QRZ, you will read where ARRL has petitioned FCC to allow full 100 watt ERP and a change in one frequency to get away from a gov't digital operation that seems to always be on the air. I never have used those frequencies because I don't want to accidentally exceed the ERP requirements. NTIA has filed no objection to the changes, and when/if these changes are approved, then I might try it. 8)

73

RR

Thanks for the info RR. That is a new one on me. I hadn't heard about this one. I don't see much use of adding a new antenna. I think I'll just keep what I have.

kc0iv

Clay51 · Joined: 25 Feb 2006 Posts: 76

Ray,

Agree with you about 60 meters. My FT-857D will set the power to 50 watts, but the ATAS 120 will not tune that low.

Don't seem to hear much activity there anyway.

RadioRay · Joined: 15 Dec 2004 Posts: 165 Location: North Carolina

I decided not to mess with 60 Meters, either because of all the restrictions. I felt that getting the 50 watt maximum precisely wasn't worth the trouble. :D Now if they change that soon (and ARRL is proposing it) then I might go there. :D

73

Crete_drvr · Joined: 04 Sep 2006 Posts: 169

feederfred wrote: I run a Magnum S380 (4 finals)

That's a damn good radio. I like my Galaxy 93T better though.

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