Truck Driving Jobs

Skywalker · Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:32 pm Post subject:

ScottieFL wrote: Hey, Sky, it's good to hear from you! I went to CFI as my first company largely because of your advice and I really appreciate and thank you for it. You've helped me a lot. CFI paid me well as a student driver, just like Prime has.

I wish it would've worked out at CFI for me. I was too green for CFI and my CFI finisher was too green to help me. CFI's a great company. But things have a way of working out for the best, if you follow your heart and let them.

Scottie... I appreciate the kind words. I met you and conversed with you enough to form the opinion that you are not a fool and have a brain to work with. I just wish things had worked out diferently for you at CFI, because you wouldn't be reading this.... or not even discussing this.

Quote: And yes, my opinions have changed since my earlier posts. They may change again. Just like the rest of you, I'm gonna make my own decisions, for better or worse. And I promise to report back here and let you know what happens.

We all have free will, and we use it as its our perjorative to do so....

Quote: I want to point out that the title of my post also asks for info about Gainey. I don't mind folks bashing Prime, but it would be nice to get some info about Gainey, too, good or bad.

I've heard good and bad about Gainey....but its years since I have even spoken to one of their drivers...so i can't even comment on them.

Good Luck Scottie!

Rawlco · Joined: 25 Jan 2006 Posts: 1160 Location: Central Maine

I don't know what prime is paying their lease operators but the scam is that it isn't enough. The reason that so many companies offer this lease purchase scam is to line their own pockets. A lease operator will work harder and break rules to move the freight and do it cheaper than a company driver. This scam benefits only the large company, not the individual driver.

I'll break down a few numbers for you.

Fuel $3.00 per gallon, 6 miles per gallon = $0.50 per mile. That is also being generous because you may get poorer fuel economy. 2700 paid miles per week plus 10% out of route, deadhead, unpaid miles SO you are buying fuel for 3000 miles for about $1500 total per week.

Truck payments at $600 per week average that is $0.22 per paid mile on a weekly basis. Consider that ANY hometime or vacationtime or short mile weeks will not mean a lower weekly payment and you could raise that number to $0.25 per paid mile for the truck payment alone.

Driver wage should be at least $0.50 per mile. You can earn in the mid 40 cent per mile range with a year of experience at many carriers. As a self employed person you are responsible for a larger portion of the social security type payroll taxes, and you have no benefits which would cost about a nickel per mile.

So the three big ticket items come to $1.25 per mile, and I doubt that prime or any other lease company is paying more than $0.90 per mile plus a $0.25 fuel surcharge meaning you are already losing $270 per week.

Now let's consider some of the other costs. You will be responsible for tires and oil changes at least, and those will come to about $0.05 per mile. You should also put aside $0.05 to $0.10 per mile into a maintenance rainy day savings account. Rebuilding engines and transmissions costs a lot of money and financing them for a truck that you don't own is usually not a good plan. Thats another $300 to $500 per week An owner operator that I have conversed with bought a 2003 truck with 300,000 miles on it last year. Over the course of ONE YEAR he spent $25,000 in maintenance/repair to the truck. With the downtime that caused him the repair costs came to about $0.25 per mile in addition to the $0.20 per mile truck payment. Replacing worn out parts isn't cheap.

Tolls, lumpers, idleair, parking fees, and other incidental expenses can add up quick. Sure they will claim to pay tolls and lumpers but there will always be times that they can wriggle out of payment. Plan on another $100 per week. Add in bobtail insurance, workers comp insurance, and whatever else the company charges you for and figure $200 to $300 total incidental expenses per week. You may think that is high, but it is always better to plan on high expenses. Put whatever is left over from this budgeted incidental expense category into that maintenance rainy day savings account.

What have we left out: There are several expenses that MAY or MAY NOT apply to some lease purchase programs: trailer payment, business liability insurance (separate from truck), licenses, permits, accounting and legal fees, etc. This could come to $0.10 to $0.25 per mile depending on a lot of factors.

So to review
$0.50 per mile, $1500 per week, Fuel
$0.07 per mile, $200 per week, fuel for uncompensated miles, idling, etc.
$0.25 per mile, $600 per week, Tractor payment
$0.50 per mile, $1500 per week, wages, payroll taxes, insurance/benefits
$0.15 per mile, $400 per week, maintenance and rainy day fund.
$0.07 per mile, $200 per week, incidental expenses.
Total
$1.55 per mile, $4400 per week total expenses.

So now that we know how much it costs let's look at revenue possibilities.
Lease purchase programs pay $0.90 per mile plus fuel surcharge usually, coming to $1.25 total per mile for 2700 paid miles per week for a grand total of $3375 total revenue. This means a loss of $1025 per week. Take that out of the operators wage and the operator is left with $475 per week before taxes making a whopping $0.17 per mile. This is less than HALF of what they could make as an entry level company driver.

You might say that you will drive more miles per week. If you can drive 3500 paid miles per week (unlikely) the increased fuel cost and maintenance will raise your total expenses to about $5200 per week ($1.50 per mile) and the revenue to $4375 so you are losing $825 now, or getting only $0.23 per mile to drive the truck. I guess that is close to what some companies start you out at. :roll:

If you are still wanting to try out being an owner operator with no long term commitment go and rent a truck from Ryder or Penske and lease on with a reputable company that pays $1.50 or more per mile. The companies that pay well don't need to dangle a lease-purchase scam to attract drivers.

Longsnowsm · Joined: 29 Dec 2005 Posts: 561

Rawlco,

I just went out to Prime's site. They appear to have changed things around both on the site and their lease setup.

This is from their site:
Quote: How much does Prime pay?

Tanker: Prime pays 70% of the actual rate we bill the shipper. For the period 4-2005 until 4-2006 the total revenue average was $1.4394 per mile.

Flatbed: Prime pays 72% of the actual rate we bill the shipper. Prime guarantees that all miles will be paid at no less than .80? for all miles. The guaranteed earnings only represent a portion of the total revenue. For the period 4-2005 until 4-2006 the total revenue average was $1.3681 per mile.

Refrigerated: Prime pays 72% of the actual rate we bill the shipper. Prime guarantees that all miles will be paid at no less than .81? per mile for teams & .85? per mile for solo for all miles. The guaranteed earnings only represent a portion of the total revenue. For the period 04-2005 until 04-2006 the total revenue average was $1.3491 per mile.

Now you have to note that the total revenue number they state for the specific division is NOT what the driver gets paid. The driver gets his percentage of that pay and these are all based on averages for the times stated. So the $1.4394 = $1.00758 for the driver per mile for tanker, $1.3681 = $.985032 for flatbed, and $1.3491 = $.971352 for refer.

So these lease operators are dependent on Prime to get good paying loads, and these numbers are an average so some will pay less, some more.

Prime says if they can get the shipper/reciever to pay the tolls, parking, etc that they pass that along to the driver, but if the shipper/reciever doesn't pay them then they only pay a percentage of the costs to the driver.

Prime says that if they don't have a load in your area that they will pay the driver to deadhead to a location where there is a load, but Prime does not say what they will pay you to deadhead. So it doesn't say if they are only going to pay fuel, fuel plus wear and tear, fuel plus driver pay... It just doesn't say.

The truck lease at Prime according the the web site:

Quote: Tanker: Starting at $693 per week, truck payments will vary based on the specification and age of equipment. This includes physical damage insurance, Qualcomm and other safety equipment, if equipped. As the truck ages the payment will drop slightly.

Flatbed: Starting at $679 per week, truck payments will vary based on the specification and age of equipment. This includes physical damage insurance, Qualcomm and other safety equipment, if equipped. As the truck ages the payment will drop slightly.

Refrigerated: Starting at $742 per week, truck payments will vary based on the specification and age of equipment. This includes physical damage insurance, Qualcomm and other safety equipment, if equipped. As the truck ages the payment will drop slightly.

So based on these numbers we can get a better idea what it costs per mile to just turn the key.

Fingerprinting a load and lumpers they say the following:
Quote: What does Prime pay for loading / unloading and lumpers?

The greater of the following: a) $1.50 per thousand, b) 2 cents per piece, c) the amount we bill the customer, or d) $60 minimum. You may be reimbursed $20 for using a pallet jack and allowed up to $35 to assist in unloading (when loads are not floor loaded).

So this does not appear to take into account lumpers, as these rates wouldn't cover the lumper fees that I have seen many here quote.

All of this info is from their FAQ on the website. There is a lot of information that is missing just as most of us who have looked into these things can attest to as being the norm.

ScottieFL, Like the others said we are not bashing Prime, we are bashing the lease operations at ALL companies that participate in these schemes. You name the company that is offering the lease and we will look and the numbers, but in the end if they don't add up it will get the "Two Thumbs DOWN!" In the past this has been the case with Prime's lease, and nothing that I am seeing right now would change that perception without a lot more details that fill in the cash flow gap. BOL

Longsnowsm

satch · Joined: 16 Sep 2006 Posts: 29

since you are getting all this great advice and info from qualified seasond vets how about laying some on me and tell me about your expierence training with prime. i plan on driving for them very soon as a companey driver. but with great apprehension. what can i excpect?

Longsnowsm · Joined: 29 Dec 2005 Posts: 561

I just found Prime's information on the FSC:

Quote: Prime will pay drivers 100% of all fuel surcharges paid by customers. Prime also compensates independent contractors even if a sufficient fuel surcharge is not levied. Prime' Fuel Guard offers almost total protection to the operator from fuel market fluctuations. Don't let the high cost of fuel keep you off the road - Partner with Prime and keep your fuel costs down!

So they don't say how much the FSC is, and just imply they will cover the difference if the FSC paid by the shipper/receiver is not enough. So who know what the means for sure or if it does cover the difference in the cost of the fuel paid by the driver. This is all rather ambiguous so who knows what that actually translates to for the bottom line.

Longsnowsm

ScottieFL · Joined: 08 Feb 2006 Posts: 112

Satch, I would have to say that I have learned more about "real" truck driving from Prime than CFI.

The best thing about CFI is their week of "boot camp" school at a community college in Neosho, MO. And CFI even paid me for that week! I learned so much more there than I did at my CDL school.

The best thing about Prime's training (for me, at least) was the 64,000 miles I spent with my very good Prime trainer, on the road, driving team. This is where I truly learned how to truck.

Yes, I was with my Prime trainer for 5 months. It would have been less than that, but he went home for 4 weeks during this time and we were down 1 week with a breakdown. Nevertheless, I learned that I could do this job and I learned how to do it.

CFI only gives you three weeks with a "finisher" and this, IMHO, is not enough. It sure wasn't for me, anyway.

I would not drive company for Prime. You only get 22 cpm to start. Yeah, they say 30 cpm, but 8 cpm of that is Per Diem, which is a tax deduction you can and should take yourself.

If you're gonna drive company, go with someone that pays straight mileage, like CFI. But only to go CFI if you truly, honestly know how to drive a semi already. Three weeks is not a long enough on the road training period, IMHO.

ScottieFL · Joined: 08 Feb 2006 Posts: 112

Very interesting thing happened to me today at Prime. I went to get my company truck. I looked at the only two they said they had available on their lot.

The cigarette lighter had fallen out of the dash in the first one, with its wire dangling out on the floor. The inside smelled like someone had vomitted an entire carton of cigarettes in the cab. It was dirty and smelly.

The cigarette lighter was OK in the second one, but the interior was in the same kind of smoky mess.

I don't smoke.

I said "I'm not driving those trucks." They said they had no other company trucks available. I immediatly went upstairs to my dispatcher and told him I was leaving Prime to accept a better lease offer with another company (Gainey, though I didn't tell him the company's name).

My dispatcher immediately called the leasing department and they immediately OK'd me for a lease instead. I told my dispatcher I'd let him know tomorrow (Tuesday) if I was still interested.

A half-hour later, I passed my final skills at Prime (took me 15 minutes to alley dock, lol, but I got it in there straight as a string!).

I'm leaning toward Gainey after today's escapades, but I hate to lose another week and I hate to take my fourth physical this year and yet another road/skills test at a new company. I will expound on the Gainey lease for your perusal in my next post.

duck · Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:35 pm Post subject:

Either way it's still a lease and not your truck tho you will pay like it is.

I completly understand on the smoking thing - if you don't smoke - having to live in an ashtry - understand telling them NO!

ScottieFL · Joined: 08 Feb 2006 Posts: 112

The Gainey lease appears to be a little better than Prime. All these figures are monthly approximates, based on a new 2006 or 2007 truck:

Monthly payment: $3200 Prime, $2350 Gainey

No Money Down at both companies.

Insurance & Other Incidentals: $430 Prime, $600 Gainey

Fuel Surcharge: Both companies are about the same. But you pay for refer fuel at Prime, Gainey doesn't run refers.

Ownership of Truck: Not to much of a chance with Prime; in five years with Gainey, I'll own the truck.

Prime says they pay 72% of the load, which I've personally seen to equal about 92 cpm or so. Gainey pays 90 cpm.

Both leases are "Walk Aways." Prime pays you bonus money for completing your lease, Gainey does not.

The one big negative in Gainey's lease is that you actually pay $6,000 down for your truck. It's taken out in 25 cpm increments from your paycheck, per week, until it's paid back. That's a hefty chunk, about $675 a week, for 9 weeks. You can pay this upfront, too, and avoid the deduction, which is what I'm strongly thinking about doing. You also get this money back at the end of your lease (it's like a security deposit) or you can use it as your down payment to buy your truck at the end of 5 years.

Now bear in mind, this is based on what Gainey has said to me. I'm never driven for them, so I don't really know. At least I've driven with Prime and I know what the deal is there. I would be taking a risk by trying Gainey, but even if the lease deal is as bad as Prime's, at least I'd own the truck at the end of five years. And if Gainey fibbed to me, well, at least I can quickly go back to the honest sharks at Prime.

I think Prime might have more freight to haul, though, because refers can haul cool or dry freight.

Leaning toward Gainey, folks, what say you?

yoopr · Joined: 01 Dec 2004 Posts: 12865

You say you won't drive for Prime as a company driver yet you will consider them as a Lease Driver?

Good Luck with whatever you do.

Saskabush · Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:10 pm Post subject:

I am doubtful that a worn out five-year-old truck would really be of much value to you...

At the end of the lease, what are you really buying?

duck · Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:14 pm Post subject:

.....and at what price considering what you have already paid in monthly lease payments combined with the final payment that is probably due?

ScottieFL · Joined: 08 Feb 2006 Posts: 112

Duck, Gainey says there is no final payment due at the end of their 5-year lease.

And Sask, lol, your statement could apply to any truck purchase. At the end of any four or five year truck purchase, who would want any worn out four or five-year-old truck? No one would buy any truck using that logic.

Yoopr, check my earlier posts in this thread about Prime's company pay - 22 cpm is not much to work for and even someone with only 7 months experience like me can do much better at even Swift, which pays starting drivers 26 cpm.

dollarshort · Joined: 16 Feb 2006 Posts: 528 Location: South Central PA

You said after you threw a fit about the 2 company trucks you refused to drive they immediately approved you for a lease. :roll:
Wow! are you ever lucky to get approved into such a premium program on such short notice. :lol:
Did you ever think that just because you walked into the office breathing on your own is the reason you were approved? From what I hear "qualified" drivers are beating the door down to get into Success Leasing to sign on the dotted line. :?

ScottieFL · Joined: 08 Feb 2006 Posts: 112

Lol, I didn't throw a fit. Folks on this board throw fits. :wink:

Why do you think I'm leaning toward Gainey?

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