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littlestoney406
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:12 pm Post subject: Losing antifreeze? |
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| Got a 2001 Western Star with 3406E CAT. Having to add about a gallon of antifreeze everyday and no leaks. I'm thinking either head gasket or cracked head. Anyone have any ideas? |
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Maniac
Joined: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 626
Location: Northeast
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| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like it is internal, do an oil analysis ASAP if its in the oil pan you need to care care of it PRONTO, or risk losing the engine.
Could also be a cracked liner. |
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littlestoney406
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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I think that it has been doing this for maybe a week. It isn't my truck, but it's my girlfriends dad's. He hauls coal for himself and he doesn't want the downtime of it being in the shop a few days just for them to tell him what they think is wrong with it.
I'll let him know. |
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brian
Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 998
Location: over here
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| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| wouldnt take long for a shop to diagnose it, if he has a shop that will get him in right away, and he can`t wait around on this the longer it goes the more damage gets done. |
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littlestoney406
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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| That is true. He does most of the work himself, but something like that he was wanting to see if he could figure out the probably and maybe fix it himself without having to take it to the shop. He was asking me and head gasket or head was all that I could think of, but then again I'm still kinda learning heavy equipment stuff, I'm more of a car mechanic. |
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brian
Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 998
Location: over here
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| do you or him have the tools to do a leak down test? a compression test may lead ya in the general direction but a leak down test will damn near pin point it. |
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COLT
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 576
Location: FT ST JOHN
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| Excuse the dumb question, Have you considered 1 gal low when cold is full when hot? I have seen this gallon aday ritual before. :wink: |
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special k
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 247
Location: Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| If money is tight and it is steadily losing anti-freeze you can use some Irontite in the rad. I don't use those kinds of things but I know some guys that have bought some time using it. Keep a close eye on the oil for antifreeze contamination and pay attention when you start it to see if it leaking into the cylinder usually you get lots of whitish smoke. When that starts to happen you're gonna have to fix it soon. |
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KAIMIKAZEE
Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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i've got the same 3406e in my pete....
had the same problem a couple of months ago and it was a bad liner...
so decided to get a complete overhaul....
i too couldn't see any leaks and had to add a gallon every day.
comes out to be somewhere like $50-70 bucks a weeks just for antifreeze.
if your stacks are blowing bluish white smoke even after a long run than it's your liners, coolants getting internally into the oil
hope that helps.. |
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C3 Trucking
Joined: 07 Jul 2006
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:03 pm Post subject: 3406e |
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| It is most likely a bad liner seal. Pull off a valve cover & look under the cover. If you see green/gray jelly like goo that is the water/antifreeze boiled out of the oil. Pull pan & pressurized a full rad with a rad cap checker. cat has a real problem with the 3400 series liner seals. 4 or 5 O ring material changes, so far same problem. The C-15 which is really a 3406E with most of the problems solved now uses the same crevice seal at the bottom of the liner that Cummins has used for 30 years. the liners most likely to leak are #1 & #2. They all can leak. It may or may not take some time to see the water drops on the crank after you apply pressure to the rad. Don't use more than 13-14 lbs pressure. If you do an in-frame when you pull the liners check the block for pinholes in the seal areas. Very small & not many holes can be sealed with cat epoxy, Large or many holes the cat service truck will be happy to come out & bore & sleeve the block for $300.00 per hole. Secondary cause might be the oil cooler. If it is running good not likely the head gasket. If you pull the head timing pins will help a lot, 3/8" bolt will work if you are careful. If you wait to long the oil filter will plug & bypass showing low oil pressure. Change the filter, oil pressure comes back strong. water makes a poor lube & will start to eat the rod & main bearings. If you drain the oil & it comes out jello you are in big trouble. If you in-frame check the cam bearings if you do not replace the head. You and everyone who owns a 3400 series sooner or later. Hows that for a sucky answer |
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Mr. Bighead
Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 136
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| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:31 am Post subject: |
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If you're really lucky, you could just need an air compressor. You would probably already know if it was putting antifreeze in your air tanks. It can also leak antifreeze into the oil. If they pull the pan to check for leaking liners, they'll check the compressor too.
Of course, if you have anitfreeze in your oil, there's a good chance you could have bearing damage. |
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Porchclimber
Joined: 28 Oct 2006
Posts: 65
Location: British Columbia
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| Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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Antifreeze like oil finds it's own level.
Keep some on hand but don't add any just to see what happens.
Take a clear gallon jug and fill it with water and put your rad overflow hose in the jug with the engine running.
Any bubbles?
Another thing to check that has fooled many people is the small 3/16 line that supplies air pressure to the bunk heat/air switching valve.
For some reason that line is at full system PSI and the valve will bypass air into the coolant causing the system to overpressure.
There is no shutoff to the supply but if you take some vice grips and put something on the line to protect it then pinch the line off and check the overflow again for bubbles.
Before getting too excited about head gaskets etc. I'd try that first.
That's happened to me three times and I know of cases where dealerships have done the heads.
But then again if you have warranty and they want to do the heads. :D |
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Windwalker
Joined: 22 Oct 2005
Posts: 2822
Location: Holiday, FL
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| Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| I used to drive a 3406 a few years ago. Got to a delivery in CO and noticed a "wet line" on the ground as I backed into the dock. When I checked it out, the radiator was leaking out the overflow. It was fuel. The injectors seals in sleeves with o-rings. one of the o-rings broke and it was pumping fuel into the coolant. But, depending on which ring fails, it can also pump coolant into either the radiator or into the cylinder. A gallon a day is a lot to lose. |
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bob h
Joined: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 664
Location: Nb
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| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:03 am Post subject: |
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Windwalker wrote: I used to drive a 3406 a few years ago. Got to a delivery in CO and noticed a "wet line" on the ground as I backed into the dock. When I checked it out, the radiator was leaking out the overflow. It was fuel. The injectors seals in sleeves with o-rings. one of the o-rings broke and it was pumping fuel into the coolant. But, depending on which ring fails, it can also pump coolant into either the radiator or into the cylinder. A gallon a day is a lot to lose.
When the engine is running, the fuel is at a higher pressure than coolant... therefore you get fuel in the coolant, causes overflow (with a fuel smell). When the engine is shut down, residual pressure from the cooling system overcomes the now "near zero" fuel pressure and pushes its way into the fuel --- Coolant in the fuel can be devastating to fuel system components, especially fuel injectors. It is quite unlikely for coolant to get into the combustion chamber from the injector sleeve... it actually gets there indirectly from the contaminated fuel in the tank. |
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