Another Brake Question....... need help ASAP!!

[RockyMtnProDriver]

Complacency kills a lot of people.

That, and overconfidence in their equipment.

That to.

A common thread in all professions such as medicine, law, education, engineering, aviation, fire fighters, stock brokers to just name a few, is that they constantly strive to get better at their chosen fields. And more often than not it is done by reviewing what they know and taking courses in things that they do not.

We want to be recognized as a profession, we want to be paid like professionals, and we want to be treated like professionals should be.

But what I see, is that once a person has their license, and some miles and time under their belt, they seem to think that they do not need to go back and revisit what they have learned, nor do they think they think they should be checked to see if they can still perform their job at even a basic level.

Just imagine sitting in an 747 and finding out that he pilot has not been brought up to speed on the new navigation equipment they have in the plane, or that they have not spent time in a simulator in years. Most people would walk right off the plane, including all the truck drives if they had any common sense.

And yet we still have the attitude that just because I could do it, I still can do it.

Not only should we welcome training, but we should demand it. And until we do, we will remain a workforce of mostly amateurs.

Professionalism is not how you do what you do, it is how you view what you do.

[ssoutlaw]

Complacency kills a lot of people.

That, and overconfidence in their equipment.

That to.

A common thread in all professions such as medicine, law, education, engineering, aviation, fire fighters, stock brokers to just name a few, is that they constantly strive to get better at their chosen fields. And more often than not it is done by reviewing what they know and taking courses in things that they do not.

We want to be recognized as a profession, we want to be paid like professionals, and we want to be treated like professionals should be.

But what I see, is that once a person has their license, and some miles and time under their belt, they seem to think that they do not need to go back and revisit what they have learned, nor do they think they think they should be checked to see if they can still perform their job at even a basic level.

Just imagine sitting in an 747 and finding out that he pilot has not been brought up to speed on the new navigation equipment they have in the plane, or that they have not spent time in a simulator in years. Most people would walk right off the plane, including all the truck drives if they had any common sense.

And yet we still have the attitude that just because I could do it, I still can do it.

Not only should we welcome training, but we should demand it. And until we do, we will remain a workforce of mostly amateurs.

Professionalism is not how you do what you do, it is how you view what you do.

A driver is also not a mechanic. Just like people who drive cars, most don't know squat about how a car works, does that make them dangerous? No, well some yes...lol A pilot does not know how a plane works, but should know about the equipment needed to reach his destination! I don't think a driver needs to be a mechanic, that's why we have repair shops. All a driver needs to know is basic stuff like, air pressure, how to hook up air lines, and the dangers of losing air pressure, you know BASICS. This way if a problem arises he may stop to call for or get repairs. Teach a driver of anything how the whole thing works, and I think you will have some that are more dangerous...lol

[allan5oh]

If a driver has a better understanding of the air brake system, the benefits are many:

- Increased production
- Less downtime
- Better description of problems to mechanics (instead of "brakes need adjusting")

There are even more benefits to an owner/operator.

BTW, rocky, is a driver required to do air system tests like the pretrip, or is it just to get that endorsement?

[COLT]

ROCKY, THEY ... ONLY KNOW, WHAT THEY NEED TO KNOW, NOT! ASK ROCKY HOW MANY DRIVERS DIED THINKING THEY KNEW WHAT THEY DID'NT KNOW, SMARTAZZ SS OUTLAW. IGNORENCE IS BLISS... B.C. Air is the best on the books.

[RockyMtnProDriver]

If a driver has a better understanding of the air brake system, the benefits are many:

- Increased production
- Less downtime
- Better description of problems to mechanics (instead of "brakes need adjusting")

There are even more benefits to an owner/operator.

BTW, rocky, is a driver required to do air system tests like the pretrip, or is it just to get that endorsement?

Allan,

An air brake endorsement in BC is a 20 hour course, of which 16 hours is in the classroom (theory) and 4 hours is a practical. In the practical they are shown an Air Only pretrip and then given a few hours to practice it. Then they must show that they can do it by themselves. Of course, a few errors are allowed, it does not have to be perfect in other words.

Once they pass that assessment (the vast majority of schools that teach it also have the assessment authority) they have to go to the local MVB and take a written test. After they pass that then they will be give a type 15 endorsement which allows them to drive anything with air brakes that their license will allow. So a class 5 license will let them drive a single axle dump truck with air brakes. If you want to get a higher license, say a class three (dump trucks), class two (buses) or a class one (tractor/trailer) then they will need to perform a pretrip as part of the driving exam. They will have to do the air brakes again at that pretrip as part of the pretrip.

And Colt is exactly right. British Columbia has the most comprehensive air brakes requirements in North America.

It comes clear why once you drive in the mountains here. 16 mile long grades that run from 6 to 8% are not very forgiving. And we even have some that are 12%. Many of them are single lane roads that have no barricades on the cliff side.

By the way if any of you have ever driven over the Rogers Pass (many, many flatlanders think of it as the big Kuhona) I consider it no more than a minor annoyance. Get onto Hwy 3 that runs from Hope BC to the Crowsnest Pass just east of Lethbridge Alta. Now you are talking mountain passes. This was where I learned to drive trucks. I use to run A-trains on that road daily. And to add one more thing to that. This is where we train our students. The very first mountain passes they go over are some of the toughest ones in North America.

[ssoutlaw]

ROCKY, THEY ... ONLY KNOW, WHAT THEY NEED TO KNOW, NOT! ASK ROCKY HOW MANY DRIVERS DIED THINKING THEY KNEW WHAT THEY DID'NT KNOW, SMARTAZZ SS OUTLAW. IGNORENCE IS BLISS... B.C. Air is the best on the books.

Let me say this first, I was not putting Rocky down. The majority of readers here are from the states, and we don't have the type of terrain you friends to the north of us do. I'm sorry but you don't have to know how to fix a truck to drive one safely! Would it be a good Idea, YES, but not necessary! As far as your RUDE PROFANE comment, is this typical of our brother drivers north of us???? By your comment COLT you think you are better than we are because you Canadians have to have a 20 hr class to get your license??? Well if I drove in a country or area that has little services and am in BF Egypt, then it might behoove me to learn how to be a mechanic grease monkey. I suggest colt, you take your microwave oven apart and put it back together and take a class to learn how to operate it correctly so you don't kill yourself or start a fire!!! That was an ill attempt at humor but the same thing none the less!!!!
Obviously rocky did not take this as an attack, as it was not one, just an opinion from another country, but you show your childish nature and speak out of turn, and think your way is the only way. I have been all over my country and Canada in the last 30 years, with no formal experience on how to be a grease monkey. 20 hrs of a class doesn't make someone an expert, or safer for that matter, so jump off your high horse and come back to earth. Colt you have proved there are idiots in Canada, just like in the USA!!!!

[COLT]

GOOOF,.... Some people drive trucks, some people DRIVE trucks. dumb azz.

[RockyMtnProDriver]

i bet that if you go to your truck right now... press in the yellow and red buttons (trailer attached)... and then drain your primary reservoir to zero..... .....neither the yellow, nor the red button will pop out

We have an Air Brakes course running this weekend and I went down this morning to see what would happen if I did this.

With both the Primary and Secondary tanks on the tractor full, and with the trailer tank also full, I supplied both the tractor and the trailer. (pushed both dash valves in to release the spring brakes).

I shut off the supply to the wet tank, disconnected both the supply and the primary from the wet tank, then drained the Secondary tank. Nothing happened. That is, of course, because blended air is suplying the trailer.

I then drained the Primary tank. When the pressure got down to about 50 psi, the trailer spring brakes applied and when it got down to about 40 psi the trailer spring brakes applied. This was with 100 psi in the trailer tank.

I have a PP7 trailer supply dash valve installed on the air board.

I am going to test it on one of my tractors when I have a trailer hooked to it this week to see if the same thing happens. Every once in a while my air board does not do the same as a tractor/trailer.

[RockyMtnProDriver]

Obviously rocky did not take this as an attack, as it was not one, just an opinion from another country, but you show your childish nature and speak out of turn, and think your way is the only way. I have been all over my country and Canada in the last 30 years, with no formal experience on how to be a grease monkey. 20 hrs of a class doesn't make someone an expert, or safer for that matter, so jump off your high horse and come back to earth. Colt you have proved there are idiots in Canada, just like in the USA!!!!

I do get off of my high horse (out of the tractor). Usually it is when flatlanders come into BC, burn their brakes off because they have no idea how an air brake vehicle works or how to use the brakes properly, and I get to a wreck and they have burned themselves to death. On one hill in particular, on exactly the same corner on that hill, I have seen 8 men die because they did not know how brakes work, or how to work brakes. And every one of them was a long time truck driver. Most of them had been all over Canada and the states. A few of them with 20 years or more driving under their belts.

And all of them died for the same reason. They did not understand what they where doing, or the impact of poor decisions or lack of a proper education.

Without knowing how brakes work, it is only a matter of time before a person wrecks. It is not IF, it is WHEN.

[COLT]

JUST LIKE YOU SAY, TIME TO GO HOME, LITTLE BOY...SS

[COLT]

.... You are my Hero sis Outlaw... your The Man...

[ssoutlaw]

Obviously rocky did not take this as an attack, as it was not one, just an opinion from another country, but you show your childish nature and speak out of turn, and think your way is the only way. I have been all over my country and Canada in the last 30 years, with no formal experience on how to be a grease monkey. 20 hrs of a class doesn't make someone an expert, or safer for that matter, so jump off your high horse and come back to earth. Colt you have proved there are idiots in Canada, just like in the USA!!!!

I do get off of my high horse (out of the tractor). Usually it is when flatlanders come into BC, burn their brakes off because they have no idea how an air brake vehicle works or how to use the brakes properly, and I get to a wreck and they have burned themselves to death. On one hill in particular, on exactly the same corner on that hill, I have seen 8 men die because they did not know how brakes work, or how to work brakes. And every one of them was a long time truck driver. Most of them had been all over Canada and the states. A few of them with 20 years or more driving under their belts.

And all of them died for the same reason. They did not understand what they where doing, or the impact of poor decisions or lack of a proper education.

Without knowing how brakes work, it is only a matter of time before a person wrecks. It is not IF, it is WHEN.

That high horse comment was not directed at you Rocky! I think the misunderstanding we are having is I took it as you need to in essence learn how the whole brake system works like a mechanic would know. I wasn't saying that a driver doesn't need to know about brake air pressure needed etc. to safely make it down a long and steep grade in all types of weather, this should be taught to the driver during training!!!! Just like the comment I made about the pilot must know enough to make the trip safely, he doesn't have to know why the navigation equip. works, just understand how to use it, see what I am getting at?



As for you colt, buy the way the name fits you like a glove, think about it!!
You come on this board and throw insults and profane language, no matter how you choose to spell it, you are just like some of the YOUNG DUMB PUNKS we have here in the states, You sound like Rocky's " yes man BOY"...lol Grow up a little, with an attitude like yours you must be the QUEEN of the Canadian bigmouths....lol Don't just start of with the crap that comes out of your mouth, debate the issue a little to make sure there is no misunderstandings before you judge another driver!!!!

[ssoutlaw]

.... You are my Hero sis Outlaw... your The Man...

You are definitely the QUEEN of the Canadian bigstrappers

[RockyMtnProDriver]

That high horse comment was not directed at you Rocky! I think the misunderstanding we are having is I took it as you need to in essence learn how the whole brake system works like a mechanic would know. I wasn't saying that a driver doesn't need to know about brake air pressure needed etc. to safely make it down a long and steep grade in all types of weather, this should be taught to the driver during training!!!! Just like the comment I made about the pilot must know enough to make the trip safely, he doesn't have to know why the navigation equip. works, just understand how to use it, see what I am getting at?

I kind of figured that is what you meant. And I agree, that the pilot does not need to know how the navigation equipment works, but I do think he has to know enough about how an airfoil works, in case the engine fails, or how to navigate by the stars if his navigation equipment fails.

I would equate air brakes much more to an airfoil than I would to an engine. I have no idea how a Spring Brake Modulator Valve looks inside one, but I do know that if it does not work I will loose a significant portion of my braking ability in the event of an emergency stop. So I know how to check it out to make sure it is working. The same goes for the Tractor protection system, the dual air system, etc.

Air Brakes needs to be seen less as a braking system, and more like a safety system.

No point having a fire extinguisher if you do not know how to check to see if it charged, or how to use it properly.

If any of those 8 guys had stopped in Cranbrook to take an 8 hour Air Brakes refresher course and then put into practice what they had seen in my course before they headed West over the big hills, none of them would have died on that day for the reasons they died for.

[heavyhaulerss]

marcel look on this page & look up topic park brake by heavyhaulerss. i had the same prob. lot's of info there. you may not need now, but good read.. glad you got taken care of..

[scania]

OK heres some background info.... i was DOT'ed in VA about 6months ago, i was shut down because DOT said i had a bad tractor protection valve, he had me push both brakes in with red airline unhooked and let air leak out, and the buttons were suppose to pop out, only the trailer brake did, so i had TA come out and give me new tractor protection valve and i was on my way............. i havent been DOT'ed since but the other day i went to test it and it still didnt work.(only trailer would pop out) I bought a rebuilt MV-3( i think thats what it is) and replaced the tractor valve and the seal... Now they both pop out, but when i press just the tractor brakes button pump down air, the button still doesnt pop out(although the buzzer does come on) my question is, is it suppose to???? and any suggestions on how to fix?

the tractor protection valve done what it's supposed to,isolated and set trailer emergency brakes,after all trailer reservoir air been exhausted.

[RockyMtnProDriver]

the tractor protection valve done what it's supposed to,isolated and set trailer emergency brakes,after all trailer reservoir air been exhausted.

The Tractor Protection Valve is to protect the Tractor from air loss, not the trailer.

It shuts down the air going to the trailer so the tractor can still have a supply of air to keep the Spring Brakes from creeping on, and to ensure their is air to the foot valve so it can be used to stop.

The trailer brakes apply long before the air has been exhausted in the trailer air tanks. If all you have is service brakes on the trailer, then it dynamites the brakes with the action of the relay-emergency valve. If you have Spring brakes on the trailer, then it vents the air from the spring chambers which will apply the spring brakes.

[Windwalker]

Rocky... Haven't seen you on here in a while. Good to see you back, and hope you plan to stick around for a while. Are you still working, training other drivers?

[allan5oh]

Holy smokes! Rocky is back!

Glad to see him here as well. I should take his course some time in the near future. This prairie boy needs some training!

[RockyMtnProDriver]

Rocky... Haven't seen you on here in a while. Good to see you back, and hope you plan to stick around for a while. Are you still working, training other drivers?

Thanks Guys.

I have been busy with business. Ya, still training and fighting the good fight.

I will be poking around the site when I have time.

Rocky