When are disc brakes going to be the norm?

[Birken Vogt]

I am certain that an 18 speed tranny is more expensive than a 5 and 4, that halogen lights are more expensive than standard headlights, that radial tires are more expensive than bias ply.

The only reason I did not get them on my tractor, is that that they are not available yet, and there is no where to fix them.

I think that those that say they don't want them probably also said they would never buy a touch tone phone, a color TV or get ABS on their car.

It is the future.

In the fire service, with which I am involved, there are plenty of people with more money than brains (other people's money) who will go and spend it on the latest greatest invention all the time. Then there are mechanics who have to fix it. The howls of complaint are deafening. Maybe it can work right, some day, but it hasn't happened yet.

Birken

[RockyMtnProDriver]

Maybe it can work right, some day, but it hasn't happened yet.

Birken

Actually, it does work and has happened.

I don't know of a car anymore that has drum brakes on it. Maybe on the rear on real cheap cars, but most of them have discs on all four wheels.

The technology is exactly the same, what has to happen is extensive field study on them. And that will happen the more vehicles are built with them.

I am sure some of the components will not work as well as hoped at first, but that is with everything.

The end result will be worth it, just like it was with discs and ABS.

It WILL make them safer in the event of a panic stop.

[bob h]

Maybe it can work right, some day, but it hasn't happened yet.

Birken

Actually, it does work and has happened.

I don't know of a car anymore that has drum brakes on it. Maybe on the rear on real cheap cars, but most of them have discs on all four wheels.

The technology is exactly the same, what has to happen is extensive field study on them. And that will happen the more vehicles are built with them.

I am sure some of the components will not work as well as hoped at first, but that is with everything.

The end result will be worth it, just like it was with discs and ABS.

It WILL make them safer in the event of a panic stop.

you speak of this technology like it's some elusive wonder advancement. you are aware that this equipment is on the road now?, and has been for years in urban buses, coaches, (fire trucks, as per birken) etc... do some research, talk to the people who are working on these systems NOW, they will fill you in on the "low maintenance" cost/intervals of these systems; squealing, pulling, shuddering, pulsating, adjustment, seizing, short life, incompatability of components, finding parts, etc... i'm hearing that when linings are replaced... everything else has to be replaced to make it work decent... if it ever works again like when it was new. i can see that all of your research has come from the manufacturers side where they've told you how trouble-free and reliable these systems are, btdt, i've already watched those presentations from arvin-meritor and bendix.


light-duty stuff? most of the cars/pick-ups that come through my shop have drums in the rear (at least that i notice)... i'll take a look in my adjacent automotive shop to verify as most of their gear is 2000 and newer.

the only rear disk systems that i recognize are the ones we have to service; pads, rotors, sliders, and quite often calipers on the rear disk systems (as they have seized pistons, or are frozen on the sliders). usually they have seized park brake mechanisms, they never even bother to fix those because they've already put too much $ into the service brake repair........ what if those same vehicles had drums in the back? 30 bucks for a set of premium shoes... a park brake cable (IF it is never used)........... see you in 5 years..... don't feed me garbage about how great rear disks are in cars/ lt trucks, i see them daily.

as i've alreay stated; yes, they're coming. ...am i as excited about it as you are? NO, i have enough to do around here without doubling my brake maintenance or tripling my brake repair costs. i just have trouble understanding your passion for this topic; i don't know of many O/Os that are hoping their cost of operating goes up susbstantially... best of luck convincing everyone that this is what they want ;0)

[RockyMtnProDriver]

you speak of this technology like it's some elusive wonder advancement. you are aware that this equipment is on the road now?, and has been for years in urban buses, coaches, (fire trucks, as per birken) etc... do some research, talk to the people who are working on these systems NOW, they will fill you in on the "low maintenance" cost/intervals of these systems; squealing, pulling, shuddering, pulsating, adjustment, seizing, short life, incompatability of components, finding parts, etc... i'm hearing that when linings are replaced... everything else has to be replaced to make it work decent... if it ever works again like when it was new. i can see that all of your research has come from the manufacturers side where they've told you how trouble-free and reliable these systems are, btdt, i've already watched those presentations from arvin-meritor and bendix.


light-duty stuff? most of the cars/pick-ups that come through my shop have drums in the rear (at least that i notice)... i'll take a look in my adjacent automotive shop to verify as most of their gear is 2000 and newer.

the only rear disk systems that i recognize are the ones we have to service; pads, rotors, sliders, and quite often calipers on the rear disk systems (as they have seized pistons, or are frozen on the sliders). usually they have seized park brake mechanisms, they never even bother to fix those because they've already put too much $ into the service brake repair........ what if those same vehicles had drums in the back? 30 bucks for a set of premium shoes... a park brake cable (IF it is never used)........... see you in 5 years..... don't feed me garbage about how great rear disks are in cars/ lt trucks, i see them daily.

as i've alreay stated; yes, they're coming. ...am i as excited about it as you are? NO, i have enough to do around here without doubling my brake maintenance or tripling my brake repair costs. i just have trouble understanding your passion for this topic; i don't know of many O/Os that are hoping their cost of operating goes up susbstantially... best of luck convincing everyone that this is what they want ;0)

Do you actually read posts before you reply to them?

1. You have no idea how I do my research.

2. I was referring to Class 8 trucks, not fire trucks, body jobs, etc.

3. I have not owned a single personal vehicle in the last 15 years that has had rear drum brakes as I do not buy inferior products. I have also not had one single problem with any one of them with the braking system other than regular maintenance.

4. You confuse passion with knowledge.

5. I get excited about skiing and back country hiking, not trucks. Please stop reading things into my posts that are not there.

Yes, disc brakes on large trucks will cost more. As I am sure Air Bags, ABS, seat belts, safety glass, crumple zones, etc. etc. have raised the price of cars and light trucks. And everyone one of them has made cars safer in the event of a crash. And I am sure that everyone one of them was meet with resistance by manufactures and the buying public.

You seem to forget about the human cost.

Significantly shorter stopping distances is the benefit of disc brakes and that is the reason why the will become first available and then once widely used, they will become mandatory.

[csramsey640]

They did a special on the History channel Modern Marvals, about the tractor trailer truck. They specifically brought that up, and Dana or Raysbestos, etc brought up that a disk brake will not hold as much heat, and that in order to make them both function THE SAME, meaning full stopping, and brake fading, the rotor would have to be very very large which would be less economical due to the lost energy in rotating mass.

He said they have done extensive testing on tons of different variations, and until something major happens, the norm will be the drum brake.

[RockyMtnProDriver]

oops

[RockyMtnProDriver]

They did a special on the History channel Modern Marvals, about the tractor trailer truck. They specifically brought that up, and Dana or Raysbestos, etc brought up that a disk brake will not hold as much heat, and that in order to make them both function THE SAME, meaning full stopping, and brake fading, the rotor would have to be very very large which would be less economical due to the lost energy in rotating mass.

He said they have done extensive testing on tons of different variations, and until something major happens, the norm will be the drum brake.

I would like to have seen that program.

[csramsey640]

It was pretty decent, it started with day 1 truck, and went through all of the updates along the way. Then it went into the future.

It showed some company that is trying to make a auto-pilot truck that will follow close behind a manned truck I dont think that one will see the market anytime soon.

Cool thing, some old timer said back in the day, he would climb some of the mountain passes in the Rockies, at around 7-9mph. The truck got so hot the drivers would stand on the step with one foot and try to get some air.

[RockyMtnProDriver]

Cool thing, some old timer said back in the day, he would climb some of the mountain passes in the Rockies, at around 7-9mph. The truck got so hot the drivers would stand on the step with one foot and try to get some air.

I use to haul A&B Trains up in the hills and I can remember going up this 8% 8 mile grade. I had a Ford LT 9000 with a 350 Cat and I could be as heavy as 120,000 lbs depending on the load.

It was in second or third gear, I had the throttle lock all the way out running about 1800 rpm, and the 60's where bent all the way back. Probably going about 12 mph.

The 60's you say??

They where the little corner windows on the doors that you could point out so you could run with the windows down. If you bent them all the way back, then they would force air into the cab to keep it cool. So, when you where going 60 mph, that was your air conditioning.

If you so choose, you could put your feet up on the dash, keep one eye on the road and read the paper.

Ah, back in the day.......

[bob h]

you speak of this technology like it's some elusive wonder advancement. you are aware that this equipment is on the road now?, and has been for years in urban buses, coaches, (fire trucks, as per birken) etc... do some research, talk to the people who are working on these systems NOW, they will fill you in on the "low maintenance" cost/intervals of these systems; squealing, pulling, shuddering, pulsating, adjustment, seizing, short life, incompatability of components, finding parts, etc... i'm hearing that when linings are replaced... everything else has to be replaced to make it work decent... if it ever works again like when it was new. i can see that all of your research has come from the manufacturers side where they've told you how trouble-free and reliable these systems are, btdt, i've already watched those presentations from arvin-meritor and bendix.


light-duty stuff? most of the cars/pick-ups that come through my shop have drums in the rear (at least that i notice)... i'll take a look in my adjacent automotive shop to verify as most of their gear is 2000 and newer.

the only rear disk systems that i recognize are the ones we have to service; pads, rotors, sliders, and quite often calipers on the rear disk systems (as they have seized pistons, or are frozen on the sliders). usually they have seized park brake mechanisms, they never even bother to fix those because they've already put too much $ into the service brake repair........ what if those same vehicles had drums in the back? 30 bucks for a set of premium shoes... a park brake cable (IF it is never used)........... see you in 5 years..... don't feed me garbage about how great rear disks are in cars/ lt trucks, i see them daily.

as i've alreay stated; yes, they're coming. ...am i as excited about it as you are? NO, i have enough to do around here without doubling my brake maintenance or tripling my brake repair costs. i just have trouble understanding your passion for this topic; i don't know of many O/Os that are hoping their cost of operating goes up susbstantially... best of luck convincing everyone that this is what they want ;0)

Do you actually read posts before you reply to them?

1. You have no idea how I do my research.

2. I was referring to Class 8 trucks, not fire trucks, body jobs, etc.

3. I have not owned a single personal vehicle in the last 15 years that has had rear drum brakes as I do not buy inferior products. I have also not had one single problem with any one of them with the braking system other than regular maintenance.

4. You confuse passion with knowledge.

5. I get excited about skiing and back country hiking, not trucks. Please stop reading things into my posts that are not there.

Yes, disc brakes on large trucks will cost more. As I am sure Air Bags, ABS, seat belts, safety glass, crumple zones, etc. etc. have raised the price of cars and light trucks. And everyone one of them has made cars safer in the event of a crash. And I am sure that everyone one of them was meet with resistance by manufactures and the buying public.

You seem to forget about the human cost.

Significantly shorter stopping distances is the benefit of disc brakes and that is the reason why the will become first available and then once widely used, they will become mandatory.

it depends on the author... i read as much as i can stomach

1. i did not indicate that you did any research, i was referrring to your expressed opinions

2. i did not refer to body jobs, don't load my post. btw; trucks, buses, coaches, fire trucks, etc all borrow technology from one another, that's why i brought it up

3. so, you're inferring that all of us that are reading this thread, and is driving a passenger vehicle with rear drum brakes, are operating inferior vehicles??? - that's a bold comment to direct at this forum. my tacoma has drums, and it stops fine

4. knowledge has a source, talk is hearsay

5. gfy

[Porchclimber]

I thought the English guy Allen50h said all his english friends that were imported to Canada to warm seats were surprised that brake systems here were so poor.
You might think if that were the case the technology for those superior braking systems would not be in use in Canada and at least Manitoba where all the undercover englishmen are.
With those people behind a wheel I want to make sure they have good brake systems that don't have too many moving parts.

[allan5oh]

Wow, you should really give it a rest.

[One]

This is a bit of an old topic, but I feel rather than starting the same discussion all over, Ill add my 2cents here:

Disc brakes do offer more stopping power than drums according to test and our experience. Some class 7 trucks in the us (like straight trucks) have them, but manufacturers are having a hard time figuring out a good way to apply them. From what I understand there are 2 different mechanisms for moving the brake calipers using compressed air and neither are without problems. One is a threaded caliber and the other I forgot. Hydrolic application is unpractical due to the nature of the brake fluid. It may be that you could stop a truck once from highway speeds with cold brakes better, but try going down a mountain fully loaded with them!!! There is less mass in the discs to absorb heat and more importantly- less area to dissipate the heat! They would have the same contact to the rim which serves as a heat sink, but less area across the disc itself.
Also, brake shoes tend to be bigger than pads, allowing for longer life and resilience.
I dont think disc brakes are a good option on vehicles as heavy as we have them here in the US. I dont know how it is in Europe, but if im not mistakes, the weight limits are more stringent there than here and we all know what a difference 20k lbs. can make going down a 9% grade :shock: