Timing????

[bob h]

well the mechanic got back to me...

he pulled the manifold off and one of the cylinder thinging is full of oil #3 if i remember correctly...

looks like a blown piston if u ask me...but luckily it's still under warranty...
the guy says cat will pay for what ever the damage is, but what about the labor??he's trying to talk me into paying the labor....or from $55 to $20 some an hour...he'll work with me...

what do you guys think????

it's still in full waranty and i told him that it wasn't like i neglected the motor...if he tries to make me pay for some portion of the labor what would you say if you was in my situation????

First of all let me get this out of the way.. LMFAO!!!!!... ok now. Granted I'm fairly new on here but I graduated #2 in my class from Universal Technical Institute out in Phoenix. I had the Auto/Diesel/Industrial program and aced everything, only missed one question in the two years of school, and while going to school I worked for I-10 International as a Technician.

Smoke:
White = Water
Black = Fuel
Blue = Oil

It doesn't matter what type of engine.. thats laws of science crap. If you're blowing white smoke out of the breather and/or stacks its water burning in the combustion chamber (cylinder)

he pulled the manifold off and one of the cylinder thinging is full of oil #3 if i remember correctly...

looks like a blown piston if u ask me

Ok.. first off Oil in the cylinders is typically (not always) caused by bad rings. Being that your engine was overhauled this past spring thats probably not the cause but if the piston rings weren't seated properly, or the sleeves or it could be a bearing/seal in your turbo blowing oil.

If it was a blown piston believe me you'd know. You'd hear a loud clanking from the moment you start the engine till the rod came thru the block and took out your highpressure oil pump, fuel pump, filters, etc... Trust me... I had a Coca-cola driver that drove his truck into I-10 with that same problem... he turned it off and the last 2-3 gallons of oil came pouring out onto the ground. So its NOT a blown piston. Rings.. maybe.

But back to the smoke. White smoke is water burning. Possibly headgasket crack allowing water into the chamber.

3406E doesn't have a high pressure oil pump... maybe that was the one question you didn't ace?

White smoke IS NOT necessarily caused by coolant/water.

A "blown piston" does not always destroy the cylinder block... it can be as mild as a hole through the crown puffing compression into the crankcase. Most of the pistons that I've ever replaced were still primarily intact.

[bob h]

bob h


well the mechanics told me that after the head came off, the injectors seemed okay...

they told me that the reason that they wanted Cat to come over was to make sure this situation doesn't happen again...

they never had a engine failure in such a short time after overhaul...

the reason why i'm adding coolant (.5 gallon every 30k miles) is because i have a leaky coolant valve for my heater. which i never had time to replaced...nothing major...

"Why would they have Cat over??? is it because they don't want to be liable for the repairs, or is it just to prove it to me that it's not their fault??

anyways Cat is charging like $80/hr. to come over, and i told them that i'm not paying for it. they told me i don't have to "if" it's not my fault...how could it be my fault????

They would know if it was overfueling (which was doubtful) as soon as they saw the piston.

I've seen major engine components fail during the road test just following an in-frame... CAT is no exception --- quality control.

The likely reason that CAT sent a guy over would be to ensure that this was a warrantable failure. I don't believe you're at much risk here. As long as basic maintenance was followed (oil, filters, etc). But, their main concern was probably fuel injectors, oil pressure, and engine temp data.

[KAIMIKAZEE]

The likely reason that CAT sent a guy over would be to ensure that this was a warrantable failure. I don't believe you're at much risk here. As long as basic maintenance was followed (oil, filters, etc). But, their main concern was probably fuel injectors, oil pressure, and engine temp data.[/quote]




so in other words, the shop is pretty confident that they're not at fault...
and that it's Cat's fault??

[bob h]

The likely reason that CAT sent a guy over would be to ensure that this was a warrantable failure. I don't believe you're at much risk here. As long as basic maintenance was followed (oil, filters, etc). But, their main concern was probably fuel injectors, oil pressure, and engine temp data.

so in other words, the shop is pretty confident that they're not at fault...
and that it's Cat's fault??[/quote]

70,000? I think that CAT's at fault... at least, from the outside looking in ;0)

[KAIMIKAZEE]

70,000? I think that CAT's at fault... at least, from the outside looking in ;0)[/quote]



cool well maybe now i can rest assure until Thursday 11-29 that's when i'll find out who get's the bill...

[BA]

receipts, what receipts are you referring to...oil change. or overhaul invoice?????

Both, along with the warranty documents

[BA]

10,000 miles of "drive it like you hate it" works well to seat in the rings.


What's the point of discussing compression testing?... the cylinder head is already off --- #3 has (had) low compression...

I totally agree with "10K-drive it like you hate it" Treating a diesel like a baby is the worst thing you can do for it.

Yes the head is off now so a compression test is worthless, but prior to teardown it should have been done. The purpose of me mentioning it would have helped isolate the cause of the smoke if there was any question as to what it was.

[KAIMIKAZEE]

well well well....

the cat guy scanned the ecu and everything seemed fine...

he's 90% sure that it's the injector, "BUT", "BUT" he also found out something tooo...

the mechanics misplaced the injectors, he's saying that you can't just stick the injectors into what ever hole, you have to program the serial # on the injector onto the ECU...

i asked him if this had contributed to the injector failure, and he said that it could...but 15 minutes later after the shop manager talked to him he said that misplacing the injectors couldn't have been the cause for the failure....

what do you guys think... do i have a case... you should've seen the look on the shop managers face when the cat guy told them about the screw up.(misplacing the injectors)

[bob h]

well well well....

the cat guy scanned the ecu and everything seemed fine...

he's 90% sure that it's the injector, "BUT", "BUT" he also found out something tooo...

the mechanics misplaced the injectors, he's saying that you can't just stick the injectors into what ever hole, you have to program the serial # on the injector onto the ECU...

i asked him if this had contributed to the injector failure, and he said that it could...but 15 minutes later after the shop manager talked to him he said that misplacing the injectors couldn't have been the cause for the failure....

what do you guys think... do i have a case... you should've seen the look on the shop managers face when the cat guy told them about the screw up.(misplacing the injectors)

The injector, as I had mentioned earlier. But, wasn't there a second scored cylinder?

Any good technician knows that fuel injectors must stay in order for re-installation.

I assume the injector had failed? And he was not blaming the e-trim codes for scoring the cylinder... right?

Also, codes do not cause injector failure... you don't have much of a tech if he has told you that...

[BA]

Yes Bob, he mentioned somewhere that cyl #2 was also scored. He also said the shop tested the injectors and said they were fine? hmm...

KAIMIKAZEE...did you actually see the scored cyl's? If so, what did the rep say? Will they cover P&L for the repair?
IMO (as a 4 wheeler wrench), if the injector is proven to be the cause of the failure, it doesn't look good if they weren't replaced during the inframe...sorry to be the one to say this.

Maybe they'll at least cover the parts? Don't hesitate to ask...

[bob h]

...again, my question is; were the injectors tested in the "running" engine or, were they tested on the bench?

[BA]

...again, my question is; were the injectors tested in the "running" engine or, were they tested on the bench?

Based on his last response...bench tested :?:

[KAIMIKAZEE]

...again, my question is; were the injectors tested in the "running" engine or, were they tested on the bench?

Based on his last response...bench tested :?:

no...no test was done...supposedly this guy had 30 years looking at Cat engines...

i pretty much lost when he said he was 90% sure by looking at the crown of the piston it was a faulty injector...

bunch of crap if you ask me...

so i'm just waiting for the bill right now...how much do you guys think the bill will be...

changing 2 pisons, 2 liners and a injector...plus labor at $55/hr...

[bob h]

...again, my question is; were the injectors tested in the "running" engine or, were they tested on the bench?

Based on his last response...bench tested :?:

no...no test was done...supposedly this guy had 30 years looking at Cat engines...

i pretty much lost when he said he was 90% sure by looking at the crown of the piston it was a faulty injector...

bunch of crap if you ask me...

so i'm just waiting for the bill right now...how much do you guys think the bill will be...

changing 2 pisons, 2 liners and a injector...plus labor at $55/hr...

Wait a minute; why did they do 2 cylinder kits if there was only 1 bad injector? Maybe that injector was so bad that it caused damage to #2 cylinder because it was nearby?

This guy with supposedly 30 years of cat experience also told you that etrim codes could damage a fuel injector... until the shop manager corrected him. A true failure analysis tech is NOT going to give you any 90 nothing bull$h1t - he will tell you YES or NO... without any doubt.

P.s. - there's a big difference between 30 years experience... and one year's experience 30 times over...

[bob h]

...again, my question is; were the injectors tested in the "running" engine or, were they tested on the bench?

Based on his last response...bench tested :?:

no...no test was done...supposedly this guy had 30 years looking at Cat engines...

i pretty much lost when he said he was 90% sure by looking at the crown of the piston it was a faulty injector...

bunch of crap if you ask me...

so i'm just waiting for the bill right now...how much do you guys think the bill will be...

changing 2 pisons, 2 liners and a injector...plus labor at $55/hr...

$3,500 ... but, I'm probably being nice ;0)