Truck Nazi's

[jburd]

I heard last night that Swift just aqccuired a large portion of Werner.
Have any of you heard anything?
I guess ol' Jerry isn't satisfied with just Swift,Central,Central Refrigerated and anything else he might have his greedy paws into any more.
He wants the whole industry....a moyes monopoly is coming..

They really should put the brakes on him and others who hire 30 wannabe truck drivers a week,then can them after a few months and still try to collect tuition.
Out my class in June 2009, 26 made it thru and only 4 known are still driving. and at least 1 of them should not be.

[Dejanh]

Werner is much more stable company than Swift. It might be other way around....

[PA]

Werner is much more stable company than Swift. It might be other way around....

Agreed

[cdswans]

I haven't heard anything about Werner except for another older and similar rumor posted elsewhere but . .

I did hear a rumor 3 or 4 months ago . . I don't spread rumors . . that UPS was acquiring 5000 Swift and MSC trailers that were approaching retirement. Lo and behold, in the last few weeks, I've seen a dozen, or so, UPS tractors pulling Swift trailers. That's not too hard to figure out . . a lot of our customers now insist on Duraplate and none of the Txxxxx numbered Swift nor any of the MSC are Duraplate. It must have been a good deal for everyone.

As far as the health of Swift is concerned, one man's debt is another man's equity; it all comes down to your point of view. What really matters is cash flow and the ability to service debt. It seems to me that Swift is rolling along quite nicely. I believe there was an article posted here (CAD) that said Swift debt was selling for 27 cents on the dollar. While that sounds like a fire sale price, you have to consider why the seller was selling. There have been plenty of big bond (debt) houses that found themselves in deep do-do and needed to raise cash in a hurry and, if you're a speculator, why not try to buy at a fire sale price?

[cdswans]

. . They really should put the brakes on him and others who hire 30 wannabe truck drivers a week, LIKE ME then can them after a few months and still try to collect tuition.
Out my class in June 2009, 26 made it thru and only 4 known are still driving. and at least 1 of them should not be LIKE ME.

CFM is to Joesha-whatever as . . jburd is to Kevin?

The company that hired AN IDIOT LIKE ME is out of it's freakin' mind!

[VPIDarkAngel]

I heard last night that Swift just acquired a large portion of Werner.
Have any of you heard anything?
I guess ol' Jerry isn't satisfied with just Swift,Central,Central Refrigerated and anything else he might have his greedy paws into any more.
He wants the whole industry....a moyes monopoly is coming..

They really should put the brakes on him and others who hire 30 wannabe truck drivers a week,then can them after a few months and still try to collect tuition.
Out my class in June 2009, 26 made it thru and only 4 known are still driving. and at least 1 of them should not be.

Hmmmm, IF that's true, I'd like to know what portion they acquired. Personally, I doubt they'd do that. If anything, I'd say it'd be the other way around.
Also, doesn't Dick Simon run Central Refrigerated still? I didn' think the guys at Swift had anything to do with that outfit.

[Bumper]

Moyes's son in law runs Central Refrigerated. Simon has nothing to do with it since he gave...er...sold it to Moyes.

[jburd]

yeah Bumper,I heard it was his daught...so daughter or son inlaw it's all the same.Jerry's son has Central freight or a majority.All in the family.I reckon that's the way to go.

Rumors are everywhere and they change a little every time they're passed along.
Sooooooooo anyway I heard about the buyout or partial of Werner from another Swifty.

[boneebone]

I haven't heard anything about Werner except for another older and similar rumor posted elsewhere but . .

I did hear a rumor 3 or 4 months ago . . I don't spread rumors . . that UPS was acquiring 5000 Swift and MSC trailers that were approaching retirement. Lo and behold, in the last few weeks, I've seen a dozen, or so, UPS tractors pulling Swift trailers. That's not too hard to figure out . . a lot of our customers now insist on Duraplate and none of the Txxxxx numbered Swift nor any of the MSC are Duraplate. It must have been a good deal for everyone.

As far as the health of Swift is concerned, one man's debt is another man's equity; it all comes down to your point of view. What really matters is cash flow and the ability to service debt. It seems to me that Swift is rolling along quite nicely. I believe there was an article posted here (CAD) that said Swift debt was selling for 27 cents on the dollar. While that sounds like a fire sale price, you have to consider why the seller was selling. There have been plenty of big bond (debt) houses that found themselves in deep do-do and needed to raise cash in a hurry and, if you're a speculator, why not try to buy at a fire sale price?

UPS is leasing the trailers from Swift, they did not purchase the trailers and most of the trailers were in long term storage when UPS made the deal.

[jonp]

UPS is leasing the trailers from Swift, they did not purchase the trailers and most of the trailers were in long term storage when UPS made the deal.

One of the rumors going around the Pageland, SC Wal-Mart Distribution Center is that us express is losing so much money on that business having underbid Swift to get it that they will not renew their contract and UPS is going to try and take it over.

[Copperhead]

It is relatively easy for publically traded companies to be "bought" by another company. Swift could easily buy a portion of Werner, or visa versa, by just buying up a large chunk of the publically traded stock. You don't have to buy equipment to buy a company. When a company buys another, they are not interested in the day to day running of tractors and trailers, they are interested in controlling customer bases and direction the company operates. The more stock you control, the more you can manipulate the operation of a company. If true that Swift bought into Werner, I would bet that Swift could care less about tractors and trailers.

[AC120]

This fanciful tale--that Swift is buying Werner or buying part of Werner--has been circulating for years. I first heard it in 1992. But ask yourself: if--IF!--it were true, how would "another Swifty" be privy to the info? Management would announce it. Financial sources, the ATA, and trucking magazines would take note. "Swifties" would get a Qualcomm message.

Bear in mind that Swift is not publicly traded and hasn't been since 2007. Stock was sold between 1990 and 2007. Swift Transportation is highly leveraged, which means it owes money. Werner (NADAQ:WERN if you want to look it up) is debt-free. Do you think that an outfit that is in debt is going to buy one that isn't? The story makes as much sense as "I did 80+ MPH in my Swift trainer truck while the trainer was asleep."

Just for grins, here's another story that circulated in the early 90's: JB Hunt (Old man Hunt) was caught banging his secretary on his desk. In one variation, his wife caught them and threatened to shoot them. In another, she joined them on the desk. This meant (somehow) that JB Hunt (the man) was ruined and was going to sell his company for pennies on the dollar to Jerry Moyes. If you believe stuff like this, you'll believe anything.

[jburd]

Well I asked the guy who told about the buy into Werner and he said Swift bought the son's interest in the company and that the old man ws still hanging on to his part.

[jonp]

This fanciful tale--that Swift is buying Werner or buying part of Werner--has been circulating for years. I first heard it in 1992. But ask yourself: if--IF!--it were true, how would "another Swifty" be privy to the info? Management would announce it. Financial sources, the ATA, and trucking magazines would take note. "Swifties" would get a Qualcomm message.

Bear in mind that Swift is not publicly traded and hasn't been since 2007. Stock was sold between 1990 and 2007. Swift Transportation is highly leveraged, which means it owes money. Werner (NADAQ:WERN if you want to look it up) is debt-free. Do you think that an outfit that is in debt is going to buy one that isn't? The story makes as much sense as "I did 80+ MPH in my Swift trainer truck while the trainer was asleep."

Just for grins, here's another story that circulated in the early 90's: JB Hunt (Old man Hunt) was caught banging his secretary on his desk. In one variation, his wife caught them and threatened to shoot them. In another, she joined them on the desk. This meant (somehow) that JB Hunt (the man) was ruined and was going to sell his company for pennies on the dollar to Jerry Moyes. If you believe stuff like this, you'll believe anything.

Can a company with debt buy one without? Of course it can. Thats what leverage is about. How better to bolster your sheet than to add a cash cow to it? Also, if Swift was intending to take a majority interest in Werner or any public company then it has to file a notice of intent with the SEC.

[AC120]

Actually, leverage is about using borrowed money, which would mean increased debt for Swift. In 2005, Moyes leveraged his buyout of Swift stockholders to the tune of $2.74 billion, PLUS an additional $332 million in Swift debt (that's three billion borrowed dollars). I have no idea what debt service on principal, interest, and fees is costing him every year, but it's a huge chunk of what comes in--hard to see him adding to that burden. If Moyes can get his hands on money that easily these days, I'd like to see him restore the pay and benefits he cut in April.

Re: cash cow. I don't see that. The increased costs of getting a part of Werner by borrowing money would eat up the cash and the cow. It's a lot harder to get money these days than it was when Moyes took Swift private.

In contrast, Werner Enterprises doesn't even have to think about debt service. By the way, CL Werner has four sons who are with him in the business and the family owns about 40% of the company. I doubt that one of Werner's sons would sell his shares to Moyes and not to his own family.

Again, it sounds like the Swifty who told the story to jburd was just recycling old gossip and blowing smoke.

[jonp]

Actually, leverage is about using borrowed money, which would mean increased debt for Swift. In 2005, Moyes leveraged his buyout of Swift stockholders to the tune of $2.74 billion, PLUS an additional $332 million in Swift debt (that's three billion borrowed dollars). I have no idea what debt service on principal, interest, and fees is costing him every year, but it's a huge chunk of what comes in--hard to see him adding to that burden. If Moyes can get his hands on money that easily these days, I'd like to see him restore the pay and benefits he cut in April.

Re: cash cow. I don't see that. The increased costs of getting a part of Werner by borrowing money would eat up the cash and the cow. It's a lot harder to get money these days than it was when Moyes took Swift private.

In contrast, Werner Enterprises doesn't even have to think about debt service. By the way, CL Werner has four sons who are with him in the business and the family owns about 40% of the company. I doubt that one of Werner's sons would sell his shares to Moyes and not to his own family.

Again, it sounds like the Swifty who told the story to jburd was just recycling old gossip and blowing smoke.

I'm well aware of what an LBO is. I was speaking in the broader sense here as Moyes, unless he did a massive stock placement to raise the cash thereby taking his company public he has to borrow the money or he could use an investment bank to borrow on Werner to help buy it. If the service on the resulting debt is less then the cashflow = cashcow or at the least a source of revenue to pay down his own debt while gaining him a greater footprint in the otr market. That makes sense to me. He would add a debt free source of cash to pay his own debt down. Read "Barbarians At The Gate"
If the family owns 40% then that leaves 60% dosn't it. All moyes has to do is get 41% to overide the 40.

[jonp]

Also, I agree with you about blowing smoke. This sounds like another driver rumor to me although with a public company you never know. It could happen.

[VPIDarkAngel]

yeah Bumper,I heard it was his daught...so daughter or son inlaw it's all the same.Jerry's son has Central freight or a majority.All in the family.I reckon that's the way to go.

Rumors are everywhere and they change a little every time they're passed along.
Sooooooooo anyway I heard about the buyout or partial of Werner from another Swifty.

Central Freight (the o/o trucks pulling doubles), or Central Refrigerated (the black, white, and red trucks pulling reefers)?

[AC120]

I'm well aware of what an LBO is. I was speaking in the broader sense here as Moyes, unless he did a massive stock placement to raise the cash thereby taking his company public he has to borrow the money or he could use an investment bank to borrow on Werner to help buy it. If the service on the resulting debt is less then the cashflow = cashcow or at the least a source of revenue to pay down his own debt while gaining him a greater footprint in the otr market. That makes sense to me. He would add a debt free source of cash to pay his own debt down. Read "Barbarians At The Gate"
If the family owns 40% then that leaves 60% dosn't it. All moyes has to do is get 41% to overide the 40.

:-) We're on the same page. "Barbarians At The Gate" has been on my reading list for years. Thanks for the heads up on it--I'll get a copy. I'll bet Moyes would LOVE to get his hands on that 60%. Here come the Swift-Werner jokes! I can't think of any right now. But . . . ah, you know the stuff we all hear out here.

[Copperhead]

Bear in mind that Swift is not publicly traded and hasn't been since 2007.

I thought the original post was about Swift buying into Werner, not the reverse. Swift not being publically traded would be a non issue. Werner is publically traded. The Werner family may have 40% ownership of stock being traded, but that leaves 60% for others. Could care less if Swift or the Caliph of Baghdad buys up those shares. Just stated that a publically traded company always runs the risk of having an outside entity, that doesn't have their best interests at heart, buy up a controlling interest and influencing business decisions.