Should I haul fuel instead of chemicals in Madison, WI?

[Phreddo]

So, I've been pulling for Transwood since May. It's not bad, I like the tanker, but I haven't yet decided if this is the company for me.

I like a little variety of the open road, but I don't like things like having to wait 10 hours for a load (and still deliver on time ), being gone for 5-7 days at a time, and so on. I used to do DHL, so I know the town, but I'm not sure if I'd regret giving up the open road completely.

So my question is twofold.

First, would pulling fuel have more pros than cons?
Second, what companies operate in Madison, and how would I go about making contact?

For anyone who's made the switch, does route fuel delivery get boring? I passed on an opportunity to work for Saftey-Kleen because I just took the job at Transwood. Now I think the door has closed on that opportunity, and I'm having a little bit of regret about the road not taken. But I worry about wanderlust.

Either way, I guess I haven't stopped looking for the right company.

[rvrjr7]

i know Klemm Tank Lines has a terminal just west of Portage on 16

[Phreddo]

Well, I've started casting out some preliminary feelers.
My company has pros and cons, but I've had one or two instances where I had to run pretty illegal, or at least very tired. Now, they didn't say I -had- to run like that, but I did hear the word "refuse" so I decided not to risk it.
There have also been a couple of times where they've encouraged me to log it short to save hours.
Now, it's one thing if I take it on myself to take whatever liberties I may with my log book. It's quite another to schedule orders and deliveries on the idea that I can find some wiggle room in my logbook. I think I'm going to have to come clean and start hardballing these guys so I don't risk something that could end my career or at least cost me a lot of money.
I'm not blaming the company, I think I'm mostly too willing to try and be a good sport for the team and also make the big bucks. But this particular terminal, they seem to have their own established way of doing things, and I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to make that work with the way I've learned to work.
The short answer is that as long as I'm here I'm going to be giving up a bit of the hourly pay to stay on their schedule. I don't think I can get paid for demurge or whatever if I'm not on duty.
At this point, I think I'm just marking time until something better comes along.
I wound up putting in an online app at klemm, mostly with the idea that someone will contact me so we can chew the fat. I also see a Class B opening at Safety Kleen. I passed on an opportunity there before, but maybe this could be a foot in the door to drive class A.
I'm still not sure how I would feel about hauling fuel, especially if they got me working nights. Guess I'll have to wait and see.

[Orangetxguy]

Well, I've started casting out some preliminary feelers.
My company has pros and cons, but I've had one or two instances where I had to run pretty illegal, or at least very tired. Now, they didn't say I -had- to run like that, but I did hear the word "refuse" so I decided not to risk it.
There have also been a couple of times where they've encouraged me to log it short to save hours.
Now, it's one thing if I take it on myself to take whatever liberties I may with my log book. It's quite another to schedule orders and deliveries on the idea that I can find some wiggle room in my logbook. I think I'm going to have to come clean and start hardballing these guys so I don't risk something that could end my career or at least cost me a lot of money.I'm not blaming the company, I think I'm mostly too willing to try and be a good sport for the team and also make the big bucks. But this particular terminal, they seem to have their own established way of doing things, and I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to make that work with the way I've learned to work.
The short answer is that as long as I'm here I'm going to be giving up a bit of the hourly pay to stay on their schedule. I don't think I can get paid for demurge or whatever if I'm not on duty.
At this point, I think I'm just marking time until something better comes along.
I wound up putting in an online app at klemm, mostly with the idea that someone will contact me so we can chew the fat. I also see a Class B opening at Safety Kleen. I passed on an opportunity there before, but maybe this could be a foot in the door to drive class A.
I'm still not sure how I would feel about hauling fuel, especially if they got me working nights. Guess I'll have to wait and see.

Phreddo....I don't know how you feel about suggestions....but if your going to haul tanks, you do not let any dispatcher or manager run YOUR log book. There isn't a tank customer out there that doesn't understand load times, trip times and unload times.

If your hauling haz-mat, and feel forced to run illegal...And do so...then have an accident, you land yourself in jail, your dispatcher in jail, your manager in jail, the "Shipping Agent" where the product is loaded get's to join you...and they(LEO's) can even take a good long hard look at the consignee.

If it takes too long to load, the first person whom you should be explaining your HOS problem to IS THE SHIPPER! After that, you tell the dispatcher your expected ETA at the consignee...and if dispatch has a problem, you have him or her bring in the company "Safety Manager".

Wait time loading and unloading is tricky for tankers.
If your hauling "NON-HAZ", the shipper can decide if you can log loading time as "Sleeper berth" (most will), but only if you have zero responsibilities during the loading..or unloading.

With hazardous material, you have zero options. Once your unit is "On the rack" you are required by law to log it as on duty not driving, even if your truck sits on the rack for 24 hours. Time at a staging area, waiting to load or unload haz-mat can be logged sleeper berth, only if, the shipper, the consignee, and your employer all agree to it.

Lot's of times, if the rack has problems, the "shipper" is going to have you drop the trailer on the rack, then drive out to the staging zone, or leave the plant all together, to get you off the clock.
However...most plant operators don't know the regulations, like you should know them, and like the "shipper" is required to know them.

Don't let people play games with you. Jail can be a long time, if you don't watch your back .......always "CYA".
Transwood hauls for some extremely "Anal Retentive" companies, just like the rest of the "Tank" companies do. DuPont is one of them. If DuPont or SCJohnson were to catch you, or any Transwood driver, running illegal,(Remember...they have all the times on the loads) they would notify DOT, to "CYA" their own butts, at the same time they were dropping Transwood from their "Carrier" list.
If you have any doubts about something your "local" people are telling you, jump right to Omaha and the safety manager...don't play the games some flakes like to play.

Even hauling fuel...especially hauling fuel, you will have dispatchers telling you...."YOU GOTTA GET IT THERE!!!", when in fact...NO YOU DON'T.


In tanking, you are "Joseph Hazelton"...."YOUR THE CAPTAIN OF YOUR SHIP".

[Phreddo]

thanks for the comeback, been a while since i checked in here.
I think that once the idea of looking for a new job planted itself in my mind, it just continued to grow.
so i wound up removing myself from a situation, even though i was starting to get the hang of it. I had a couple instances where i got stalled at the shipper or consignee, and i wound up having to shut down 90 miles from home. I would be willing to bet a nickel that any of the other drivers would have just driven thru and logged it legal. me, i'm not willing to risk challenging the prepass and the electronic tolls. So I just ate it to preserve my clean record.

Then I got an interview with a mail hauler, and this was during a slow period, so i figured "why not?" My last loads i was hauling vans of drums, and they wanted me in Chicago by 6AM. No thanks, that pretty much sealed it. The only real bad thing i wound up doing was basically giving them 2 days notice, cuz i got the offer on a tuesday, and they wanted me to start on thursday.

So, yeah, I tried it, didn't mind it, but all I started to see was the hassle. This mail run is paid hourly, runs on a real tight schedule, and it's -gravy-. The worst part is that i have to start my backhaul at midnight.

As far as my old company goes, I have no desire to cause them problems. What I was hauling was mostly outside freight, not their regular bread and butter. They have a solid relationship with their primary customer, and I assume they have their understandings of how things work. I just decided it wasn't a good fit for me, especially compared to 4 days of work and 2 nights in the truck a week.

So, they weren't bad to work for, but most of my problems stemmed from a lack of communication. that is, a situation would arise, time would be short, and there would be nobody i could really call to resolve the situation. Seems kinda Mickey Mouse to me. Oh, and they do everything on paper, including itemizing mileage by state. Not sure how other tanker outfits do it, but this new company, they got electronic everything and auto-shift trucks. Normally i wouldn't be a fan of electronic logs, but my run ususally takes 9 hours, and i'm usually done within 11 hours, so i never have any reason or temptation to fudge anything.

Now i just need to figure out what to do with all this spare time

[belpre122]

Phreddo....I don't know how you feel about suggestions....but if your going to haul tanks, you do not let any dispatcher or manager run YOUR log book.

You're speaking gibberish to a lot of these folks Stan. Not only are they willing to run illegal (read as a criminal), they feel the need to trivialize and brag about it. Shameful, to say the least.

Now i just need to figure out what to do with all this spare time

Now you're talkin!!

I had a couple instances where i got stalled at the shipper or consignee, and i wound up having to shut down 90 miles from home. I would be willing to bet a nickel that any of the other drivers would have just driven thru and logged it legal. me, i'm not willing to risk challenging the prepass and the electronic tolls. So I just ate it to preserve my clean record.

Good for you Phreddo! Glad to hear things have worked out for you! BOL

[Phreddo]

well, we would all love to have a job where you get as much as you can for doing as little as you can, but sometimes you can't get that right away. i find that the company is willing to push you as hard as you're willing to go. generally i try to stand up to that, but if they insist, then i start looking for a new place to work.
My tanker experience pretty much showed me everything i needed to see to decide if i wanted to drive a tanker, and compared to this new job, i don't need to do it anymore. But at least I know i -can- do it if i ever need to again.
But we all just have to keep our noses clean, do our jobs, and keep our antennae up for the right opportunity. I felt i was in a good place for this job, but i did have to inconvenience my old company to make it happen, but i decided that it was too good of an opportunity to pass up, even though i feel the recruiter really pulled a fast one on me. I'll let it slide, but i won't forget it if this company doesn't pan out.

[SwervynMervyn]

Phreddo,

Are you driving for the mail hauler out of Waterloo? I worked for them a month back in 2007. It was the Christmas mail rush and the schedule was ridiculous. My starting times were never the same plus they would change it two times a day at least.

They said i was not flexible enough.....I said you have nice trucks and it's nice not having to keep a log book, but you can have this job.....so we had a mutual agreement to part ways.

[Phreddo]

I almost don't wanna say who i drive for until i get past my 90 day period for fear of getting bumped

These guys are out of Kalamazoo, and they actually are working with Sheehy helping to test their new software and tracking system.

[Phreddo]

So I made it past my probation and I'm now a full employee. Unfortunately for me, I'm starting to get a bit bored with this route. Well, really bored. I know I shouldn't complain in this economy blah blah blah, but the fact is that driving from Milwaukee(madison) to detroit and back twice a week on a strict schedule is starting to wear on me. The problem is that the money is just good enough to keep me on. But I'm definitely looking around for, well, something else. The problem is that this company doesn't have any other routes for me where I live, so its this or nothing.

I'm eyeballing a local company that hauls various types of fuel. They aren't a specific fuel hauler, ie they aren't like tied to one chain or whatever. But they seem to haul petro-chemicals of all sorts. I see they pull the gas tankers with multi-compartments, but they haul gas, diesel, ethanol, whatever burns.

They are a local company, day cabs, 100 (150?) mile radius, home every day, paid 20% or somesuch. 5 day work week, either a saturday or sunday included, I can pick my start time, and home every night.

I'm currently hauling mail to detroit, the hours are fine, the money is good, but it is BORING. My biggest concern is that this guy says his drivers average anywhere from 20% below to 20% above what I currently make, so I dunno how much of a cut I can afford if i wind up on the low side of that average.

What are any up or downsides to a company like this, and what is the real-life experience as far as the money goes?

I would be a real easy hire for this guy cuz i got 3 years in and all the goodies for tanker Haz, tanker, TWIC, and so on, and I have done tanker work before. I'm just not convinced about the money part. These people don't have any info online, and I feel odd pumping the guy for info cuz he always sounds like he's in a rush.

I've tried to do a little bit of number crunching, and even though my current job is only 4 days a week, a 5 day work week being home every night would probably result in only like 4-5 hours difference per week. That is, my duty hours total 41, but my total time out is like 68 hours a week, so minus sleep that's like 52 hours a week.

At this point i just feel like i'm probably going to find something to gripe about any job...

[Phreddo]

UPDATE
Well, time to put the rubber to the road. I submitted my app, and I got a callback, and I go on a ridealong tomorrow. Time to see what's so great about this fuel hauling thing I keep hearing about.

UP_UPDATE:
Went on a ridealong. Seems simple enough, but I'm feeling woozy. I dunno if its the heat or the fumes. Not to mention that months of hauling mail has probably made me very soft. I'm on the fence, I'd like to take the job, but I'm afraid that I may not be able to do the fumes. I'm normally not bothered by fumes, so I'm assuming it's gotta be the weather.

[Phreddo]

Fine, i'm talking to myself here.
i just put in notice with the cushy mail job to take a local fuel hauling job.
Anything special I need to know about passing the tests at the terminals?

[geargrinder]

If your hauling "NON-HAZ", the shipper can decide if you can log loading time as "Sleeper berth" (most will), but only if you have zero responsibilities during the loading..or unloading.

Time at a staging area, waiting to load or unload haz-mat can be logged sleeper berth, only if, the shipper, the consignee, and your employer all agree to it.

Ring, Ring... "Transwood Dispatch"

Chemical Plant, "This is Joe from ACME"

Dispatch, "Joe, how the heck are you - how's the golf game?"

Joe, "Hey Bob, thanks for asking, new clubs have done wonders for my shank"

Bob, "Well Joe, what can I do ya for, need a few more tanks cuz business is picking up?"

Joe, "It looks we have turned the corner."

Bob, "that's great, I see we have Tony Driver over there right now getting loaded. One of our most experienced drivers."

Joe, "That part of why I called. Maybe you should promote Tony into your legal department."

Bob, "Smart guy, that Tony!"

Joe, "Too smart for his own good, cuz I don't want him here anymore. In 20 years as a shipper and consignee I have never had a driver
ask me to approve how he's logging his time. Bob, that's your business not mine. This guy is an oddball, after sleeping for a few hours he went into the driver's break room. Been playing the Hostess vending machine like a penny slot. You sure he's right in the head.

Bob, "I'll have a talk with him to see what the problem is."

Joe, "That's not necessary, just send a different driver next time. We don't oil squeaky wheels around here, we just replace them."

Bob, "It's as good as done. You going to the Dew Drop In after work?"

Joe, "You bet, that new barmaid is a knock out!"

Bob, "I'll see you there, take care."

Joe, "by now"

[Orangetxguy]

Fine, i'm talking to myself here.
i just put in notice with the cushy mail job to take a local fuel hauling job.
Anything special I need to know about passing the tests at the terminals?

Don't smoke in the truck. Don't smoke inside the terminal fences, don't smoke while you load the truck, don't smoke while you unload the truck.

Other than that....ask questions, ask questions....then ask more questions.


Oh yeah....did I tell you not to smoke???


Hauling fuel is easy. Read the labels before attaching anything. Read the labels before starting anything....read the labels before opening anything.


Did I mention not smoking yet??

[Orangetxguy]

Ring, Ring... "Transwood Dispatch"

Chemical Plant, "This is Joe from ACME"

Dispatch, "Joe, how the heck are you - how's the golf game?"

Joe, "Hey Bob, thanks for asking, new clubs have done wonders for my shank"

Bob, "Well Joe, what can I do ya for, need a few more tanks cuz business is picking up?"

Joe, "It looks we have turned the corner."

Bob, "that's great, I see we have Tony Driver over there right now getting loaded. One of our most experienced drivers."

Joe, "That part of why I called. Maybe you should promote Tony into your legal department."

Bob, "Smart guy, that Tony!"

Joe, "Too smart for his own good, cuz I don't want him here anymore. In 20 years as a shipper and consignee I have never had a driver
ask me to approve how he's logging his time. Bob, that's your business not mine. This guy is an oddball, after sleeping for a few hours he went into the driver's break room. Been playing the Hostess vending machine like a penny slot. You sure he's right in the head.

Bob, "I'll have a talk with him to see what the problem is."

Joe, "That's not necessary, just send a different driver next time. We don't oil squeaky wheels around here, we just replace them."

Bob, "It's as good as done. You going to the Dew Drop In after work?"

Joe, "You bet, that new barmaid is a knock out!"

Bob, "I'll see you there, take care."

Joe, "by now"

That's funny! Really...it is.

How many chemical plants have you been in, where they asked you to stay inside the truck? How many chemicals plants have you been in, where they have the DOT regulation, as pertains to driver responsibilities posted, at the rack?

Some plants require the driver to stay in the cab. Some allow the driver to use the sleeper while staying inside the cab, while others require the driver to remain in the driver's seat. Still others require the driver to stand outside, by the trailer, while they load or unload the tank. Still other's require the driver to sit in the driver break room, while the tank is loaded or unloaded.

As a driver, you have to know what your company's policy is, as regards loading and unloading time, where the driver is not actually involved in the work process.

You also need to know the requirements of the individual plant or customer.

There is a fine line between what the DOT reg say and what the customer and company require. Knowing those requirements can save logbook hours, time, and aggravation.

Some plants relieve you of responsibility, during the loading and unloading process, while others do not. You need to know which does and doesn't.

With Phreddo deciding to hauling fuel, unless he is on a lunch break, he logs everything as on-duty not driving, when he is not driving.

[Mackman]

Don't smoke in the truck. Don't smoke inside the terminal fences, don't smoke while you load the truck, don't smoke while you unload the truck.

Other than that....ask questions, ask questions....then ask more questions.


Oh yeah....did I tell you not to smoke???


Hauling fuel is easy. Read the labels before attaching anything. Read the labels before starting anything....read the labels before opening anything.


Did I mention not smoking yet??

By LAW can you smoke in the truck when driving if you are hauling gas. I know its not safe but is thwere a law on the books about it??

[Skywalker]

You're speaking gibberish to a lot of these folks Stan. Not only are they willing to run illegal (read as a criminal), they feel the need to trivialize and brag about it. Shameful, to say the least.

It might sound like "gibberish" to some of them....but their days are numbered, and the numbers are getting lower and lower, and will soon reach "zero".

With the US DOT in league with the states....using GPS data to "audit" logbooks...along with the rest of the "timestamps"..... there will be a lot of drivers who will either get with the program, fall by the wayside and get jobs at "MickeyD's", or end up in jail..... The jailhouse lawyers can blather all they want...but having seen the results of how the program works and how it can shred logs....life is going to change for a lot of drivers.

You're right.... it is shameful. Whats even more shameful is how willing they are to play "lackey" for some dispatcher....thinking that doing "favors" will get them more miles and money..... Oh, some might make a buck or two more, but just let some little hiccup happen, like an accident...and they will find that in reality...both the company and their friendly dispatcher will look at them like they are dog****....and will commence to throw them to the wolves.....

[Orangetxguy]

By LAW can you smoke in the truck when driving if you are hauling gas. I know its not safe but is thwere a law on the books about it??

Yes there is Mack. It stipulates no less than 25 feet from the truck, loaded or empty. Many companies put a smoking restriction at 50 feet from the truck.

There are plenty of driver's out there, running under flammable placards(Fuels or Chemical), whom would have racked up numerous tickets, if cops were paying attention and pulling those smoking folks over.

I know several drivers in LA, the Bay Area and in the Seattle area, whom have received tickets for smoking in the truck. I know one guy who got fired, for smoking in the truck. He was caught by the regional manager and the company's president at the time.

[Phreddo]

Don't smoke in the truck. Don't smoke inside the terminal fences, don't smoke while you load the truck, don't smoke while you unload the truck.

Other than that....ask questions, ask questions....then ask more questions.


Oh yeah....did I tell you not to smoke???


Hauling fuel is easy. Read the labels before attaching anything. Read the labels before starting anything....read the labels before opening anything.


Did I mention not smoking yet??

Lucky me i haven't smoked in over 2 years. And, if I really had to, I could get the e-cig!

As far as where to stay while loading, yeah, it really depends on the consignee/shipper. Each place has its own policy. How I always logged it depended on if i wanted to get paid for my time or if i wanted to get home that day :/

But, yeah, I think this is probably the job I've been angling for since I started driving. Here's me hoping it works out!

[Orangetxguy]

Lucky me i haven't smoked in over 2 years. And, if I really had to, I could get the e-cig!

As far as where to stay while loading, yeah, it really depends on the consignee/shipper. Each place has its own policy. How I always logged it depended on if i wanted to get paid for my time or if i wanted to get home that day :/

But, yeah, I think this is probably the job I've been angling for since I started driving. Here's me hoping it works out!

Fuel is easy.

Know your compartment sizes, and where the scully over fill is set to disable.

Keep two buckets on your truck.

Keep tank charts in your clipboard or breifcase.

Never try to put more into a tank than it can hold.

When at the load rack, and loading....stay at your truck. Video will get your butt in a sling.