Curious about leaving LTL Company for fuel Tanker Job

[TimberWolf]

I would just like to get the general feeling from some people about leaving my cushy union job for a fuel tanker job... Stop laughing...
I have been with UPS Frieght for 1 year now started right off as a city driver. When the Teamsters came in, in March/April I joined and felt pretty secure even as I saw the layoffs and bumps begin to happen. Right after I hired on our barn hired at least 20 more behind me, so I was lucky enough to be in the top 90% once the Teamster came on board. Garanteed 40 hours a week, which is what I have been getting for the last three months unfotunatley they have been on the docks with 7 other city drivers the highest in senority being an 8 year guy, then two 5 year guys, one 3 year guy, two one plus year guys, and one guy who hired on the day after me. I have seen a 13 year road driver bumped to city driving. My questions lie with in the realm of reality and fantasy. the fantasy of spending 25 years with UPS Frieght and leaving with a nice pension plus my own savings, and the reality of our economy and plain and simple operating a business.
My supervisor has told me it will most likely be at least one year if not longer before I get back into a truck on a consistent basis, my concern with this is that in 8 years if I make it that long I will still be vunerable to being bumped back to the docks. while I am in decent shape and exercise regulary I must say dock work is extremely hard work not something I envision myself doing in my 50's.
This past month I have spoken with at least 10 fuel drivers around my town from various companies all of them said they love the job, all of them said you will make at least $50 grand your first year if not more. I noticed some of them were at least 60 years of age with one who looked to be in his early 70's he told me this is an old mans job you can do it for many many years. So the next step was to send out my resume and in two weeks I was turned down by 3 comapnies for lack of experience in fuel hauling no interview or any conversation at all just a plain thanks but no thanks call us when you get experience hauling fuel. However one company has taken the time to interview me and has told me they would train me to haul fuel, The termional manager has a LTL background and is understanding of my current situation. SOOOO am I crazy to try this??
My gut is telling me go for it it cant be any worse then my current situation especially if a year goes by and I don't get to drive and then get laid off, Already been two + months since I have driven..
Lay it on my folks the good the bad and the ugly.....
is this crazy to want to make this change?

Timberwolf

[Snowman7]

Fuel jobs are good jobs so I wouldnt call it crazy. Just remember with any good job nobody ever quits so life at the bottom can be rough sometimes. It seems the worst thing about fuel is the hours as they run pretty much 7/24/365. So the new guy will get the weekends and holidays for years. As for UPSF I think you will be OK in another year or two. Once the election is over and people adjust to fuel prices you'll get back in a truck. UPSF is and will continue to grow, especially as smaller LTL's start folding. Your working for the 800lb gorilla of freight and they will keep expanding. Whichever way you go you're going to have to stick with something. There will be good times and bad over a 20-30 year career.

[hamboner]

I say go for the fuel job! Too many guys wait around for things at UPS hoping for the best and taking all the b.s. that comes with it. You will have a good job hauling fuel and a steady one at that! If you meet with a financial planner and invest ur savings wisely you can easily meet all ur retirement goals. Im 29 and single and I started contributing to my IRA at age 24 along with other investments. Never rely on someone else to provide ur retirement when you have the ability to invest in ur own future! I dont even have insurance at my current job and I am still able to provide for my retirement. I believe you will be much happier in a job that provides u more stability.

[teamster]

I hauled fuel for two years and then went on to upsf. I only quit the fuel thing because the hours got too hard with a new baby. Yes I was working nights, weekends, and holidays. After 6 months at upsf my boss from the fuel gig called and offered me a day shift and a weekend day off. I could not put my two weeks notice in fast enough at upsf. I love the job and it is very easy once you learn it. Pm me if you want to know more.

[BHG0069]

I pull chemical, but I talk to the fuel guys and 90% of them wouldn't pull anything else. Especially if you get one of the gigs that pays over $20 an hr.

[belpre122]

I pull chemical, but I talk to the fuel guys and 90% of them wouldn't pull anything else. Especially if you get one of the gigs that pays over $20 an hr.

Correct. And that is not all that difficult to find.

I got off of the phone a few minutes ago with the operations manager of the company that I work for.

I need to attend Security Awareness training for one hour on Thursday:

250 mile round trip in my (one week old) Toyota paid at .58 cents per mile. (and I said that I would never turn another wheel for CPM )

8 hours of straight pay for the 1 hour of training.

Regarding work Thursday evening? "Whatever you wanna do, it's up to you."

I wouldn't trade my fuel hauling job for anything.

[BHG0069]

I pull chemical, but I talk to the fuel guys and 90% of them wouldn't pull anything else. Especially if you get one of the gigs that pays over $20 an hr.

Correct. And that is not all that difficult to find.

I got off of the phone a few minutes ago with the operations manager of the company that I work for.

I need to attend Security Awareness training for one hour on Thursday:

250 mile round trip in my (one week old) Toyota paid at .58 cents per mile. (and I said that I would never turn another wheel for CPM )

8 hours of straight pay for the 1 hour of training.

Regarding work Thursday evening? "Whatever you wanna do, it's up to you."

I wouldn't trade my fuel hauling job for anything.

Damn thats not too bad there 8)

They only pay us the empty miles (.34) if we have to drive our POV for work.

My dispatcher called me in today to get a load pumped off 2 miles down the road. I get there and they can't hold the product. So I get paid 8 hrs for 1 hr worth of work.

Yea I'm in the same boat as you. If I ever did leave it would be to a local fuel hauling gig. NOTHING BEATS YANKIN A TANK :twisted:

Off to Texas tomorrow.

[Orangetxguy]

Hmmmmmmm.


Timber...Have you asked around about a fuel gig? Do you have an idea as to what the pay rate in your area is?

There isn't anything "hard" about hauling gasoline. All you need to do is use your eyes.......read the labels......trace the hoses.....and read the labels again..before you ever open a valve.

The big thing about fuel is the stress. Yeah I know...the guys whom haul fuel in markets that are not as congested as others will say that there is no stress...but I assure you..after having done 16 years of hauling fuel in one of the countries most congested markets..there is plenty of stress...which is why I took the walk, when it was offered. Being in Florida...you are automatically in a "Congested" market. If you have a problem handling stress...fuel may not be the gig for you.

As has already been pointed out..there are some really good paying fuel gigs out there...but in order to get the good "$$" your gonna have to put in your time at the cheap-o hauler. Which means that you will spend plenty of time at the bottom of the boards...because if you get lucky, and do get a gig at say...BP..your gonna start on weekend night ****d..at "El Cheapo" then at BP.

Not trying to discourage you..just being realistic.

[TimberWolf]

Thanks for all the reply's everyone.
I have done a fair amount of research on this paricular comany and the job requirements. The Company FRTL is strong and looks not to be going anywhere they are a subsidary of Patriot Holdings Inc. I talked with 3 of their drivers during my intial research and got two yeas and one nay, (fairly common in this industry) their equiptment looks fairly decent 02 to newer 6speed macks and 06/07 10 speed Freightliners. The pay rate is not to shabby, 4 to 6 weeks to train at $500 a week. Once you are on your own they give you 5 weeks of supplement pay while you begin slow starts at $500 a week plus your loads then progressively goes down a 100 a week. As I said all drivers I spoke with said you can easily make 50 grand. Right now at UPS freight I am at $19.18 and hour and have not seen any ot in the last 3 weeks, since union inception I have received a total of 23 hours Ot, this is for 3 months. Prior to the union I was getting 10 to 20 hours a week. Things have changed and I am not so sure it is for the better even moods have changed it is really strange but the air in this barn just seems so unhappy... Robotic if you will..
I would be driving nights in the Orlando area and East Coast FL from Daytona to Ft Pierce working weekends to start but within a year I will be able to get at least one weekend day off Fri/Sat or Sun/Mon so I am told. I also figure there are fewer idiots out at night so hopefully it will be easier to manage. My main concern is coming home alive, my wife is not to keen on this idea as the day I mentioned doing this type of work a tanker exploded on I75 south of Tampa, so getting her on board is important. As far as paying attention to detail I am not worried about that my parents gave me a great work ethic and most importantly common sense. So it seems as if it will be just a point of doing your job the same way every day, creating steps and sticking to them.

Hamboner my father is a retired Army colonel he helped me start my IRA in 1986 when I graduated from college I have been putting into it every year since then. I am one of the fortunate few who lives a very simple life when it comes to daily finacial reponsibilty, very low expenses and fairly decent cash flow. My wife is a GM and she brings home some decent cash.
Thanks again for all the replys and if I can get my wife to sign on I think I will make this change.

Timberwolf

I also figure there are fewer idiots out at night so hopefully it will be easier to manage.

Hmmm...have you ever driven in Orlando at night? That place is jammed 24/7...some of the worst traffic in the country is in Orlando. Lots of idiots in tricked-out cars and crotch rockets cutting you off. I've got family that live down there...Orlando is no picnic man no matter what time of day. Crime is pretty bad also. Lots of stick-ups and carjackings. You want to be delivering fuel at night in that area?

Sounds to me like you'll only be making more money by working more hours, which is OK I guess if that's what you really want to do. Personally, tho I'd find an hourly paying tanker job. The reason UPS isn't giving you overtime now is that the entire industry is slow so they've got to manage their expenses. Just like all these coolie carriers screaming at their drivers for idling the truck.

Have you looked at the total package? What about vacation and accrued personal time? Holiday pay? What does UPS charge for medical benefits vs the tanker outfit?

[feederfred]

I kind of have a unique perspective on your situation having spent over 30 years at UPS and now hauling fuel during my "retirement" years. I also worked part time hauling fuel in Southern California during my early days at UPS to make extra money. I worked for Wright, Powerine, Paramount Petroleum and part time at Chevron in Montebello CA. There are some very good outfits out there, but as someone on this board said, that just like freight, there's a lot of "low end" tanker jobs too. Fuel hauling is competitive like any other freight and some outfits (Cox comes to mind....) undercut and cut corners and push their drivers. Dangerous ? Not anymore than anything else, although some people will view it that way. Just triple check everything, take it slow and never get in a rush...And if you smoke, you may want to quit (just kidding..) You face a hard choice about UPS though and I don't envy you that choice. MANY times I hated Brown and wanted to bail. But I put my time in and bailed and got the pension. Thats not to say you should stay or you will. If you are young enough to start over and it won't hurt you financially, then go for it. If you leave UPS with 2 weeks notice, they'll re-hire you, but then you lose what seniority you have now. UPS (freight or Parcel Division) is not going away, they will just get bigger. And the economy WILL get better sometime soon. The question is: What do you REALLY want to do ? As I said, you have some tough choices to make. BOL, let us know what you decide. UPS is allright, but if your not happy....

[TimberWolf]

Hey Lebron, I have driven Orlando day & night for the past 5 years 4 with Commercial Carrier Corp and almost one with UPS Freight until being bumped to the docks. I know the city inside and out in fact just as well as I know Denver having grown up in that area. I am 45 years old with one adult child and one who thinks she is grown at 13. Most of my life I have taken an attitude of everything happens for a reason. (It IS What It IS)
As we all know sh.t happens in every area of our world at any given time you just need to be aware and hope/prepare for the best/worse.
My fear of staying with Brown is that in 5 or 10 years I could still be working the docks or subject to being bumped back, (not my cup of tea) These guys bust theirs ass's it is a young man's job. During my 3 months of dock work I have noticed my back pain has begun to increase slightly usually on my off days when I am not so active, I come home so fricking filthy at 3 am covered from head to toe in dirt and grime. While I am in the shower for 45 minutes getting clean I look back to the days when I was city driving and having to bump 20 docks and dealing with the wild loads like 3000lb palletts of old Crankshafts, of course who cant forget mansfield and their beautiful packing job of old tractor brake pads with two or three wraps of plastic sure to come apart on the first bounce again another 2 or 3000lb greasey pallet that needs to be picked up. I know every job has it good and bad points but as I get older I am looking to work easier and not harder, Ups Frieght seems like it will remain a hard working job well into the future. When I watch a 65 year old man lumping hoses and loving his job then that makes me question what I am doing now. I know my work ethic and abilities will move me to a higher level in a few short years at least with the ability to choose my hours and days off. I dont even get to do that now it is all on a bid system while I am still in the top 90% (two more people leave and then that is gone) I still get the last choices for hours and days off. As far as pension and future security goes I learned a long time ago to rely on myself for that even though the extra pension would be nice. I am looking at it like this; physical work is for the young while mental work is for the old. (older)
I am going to take the rest of the week to weigh out the pros and cons and make my decision over the weekend.
Thanks for all of your replys they were quite helpful.....

Timberwolf

[Orangetxguy]

Timber...since you are in the Orlando area...check out Eagle Transportation. They are a bunch of old "Amoco" hands that bought a bunch of "Amoco" equipment from BP, when BP, cut their jobs in 1999.

Talk with them. Get 2 years of clean work in with them, then you can start talking with BP. Eagle will probably start you out a little better than what you just described...and advance you quicker, pay wise.

You can always check out Loves and Pilot, after 6 month's with any fuel haul company. Loves is paying $20.40 an hour in Florida right now. Pilot is $19.35.

[TimberWolf]

Hey Orangetxguy, Thanks for the info.
Eagle wanted me to have some experience first, as did Energy Dispatch, and Gemini (they run for Loves). As far as BP I would love to pull for them however they are in the process of dismantleing their entire fleet in Florida plus all corporate stores as well. At some point all BP drivers in the Central Florida area will be unemployed once the company sells off the convenience stores to whom ever buys them. They have already begun breaking down some of the daily loads to other companies FRTL being one that does several BP Corporate stores now and working to get more, hence why I think they are willing to train me. The BP drivers who stay on to the end have an extremely nice severence package coming their way as do their store managers.
My thoughts were to get as you said 1 or 2 years safe driving and good habits and then begin to see if I could get on with Gemini (Loves) or Flying J, or Pilot.
I have already made my mind up and am going to make this change it feels right so hopefully it will turn out right...
I will keep you informed once I begin my training on the 28th of July.
Thanks again...

Timberwolf

[teamster]

Bp is doing the same thing in my area. They are getting a nice package when it is all over. I feel for those guys though. Good luck in your new job. I think you will like it. It might seem overwhelming at first, but pay very close attention to details and everything your trainer tells you. Biggest thing with fuel is check and then re-check all connections before opening a valve. Even if you open it and close it quickly you have already dropped enough to contaminate the tank-it flows very fast. Good luck.

[Drill]

I haul Fuel For APC, working weekends and nights is the way to go in this industry, Going to the loading racks during the day bites, atleast in Savannh and at Kinder Morgan in North Augusta. It usauly takes an hour to get loaded.
I to am looking to go to FRTL for a night position. They 10% night Differantal and 20% weekend differantial. It only takes 15 minutes to load at night

[belpre122]

I haul Fuel For APC, working weekends and nights is the way to go in this industry, Going to the loading racks during the day bites, atleast in Savannh and at Kinder Morgan in North Augusta.

Amen on that brother! I have turned down a "promotion" to day shift numerous times in the past couple of years. No way!

It usauly takes an hour to get loaded.

An hour or more here in Indy also. Working nights/weekends, my average time on terminal property is around 15-18 minutes. I get antsy if I pull up to the rack and have even one truck in front of me.

[Orangetxguy]

I haul Fuel For APC, working weekends and nights is the way to go in this industry, Going to the loading racks during the day bites, atleast in Savannh and at Kinder Morgan in North Augusta.

Amen on that brother! I have turned down a "promotion" to day shift numerous times in the past couple of years. No way!

It usauly takes an hour to get loaded.

An hour or more here in Indy also. Working nights/weekends, my average time on terminal property is around 15-18 minutes. I get antsy if I pull up to the rack and have even one truck in front of me.

LOL...you guy's would have hated the racks on Harbor Island in Seattle. I can remember many nights when the Texaco(now Motiva), Shell(now KinderMorgan) and Arco(now BP) racks all had double lines of trucks stacked out the gates and onto the streets, waiting to load. At 10 & 11 at night!!

As an hourly driver..I didn't let it bother me....in fact..most of us Arco drivers would let the percentage drivers go around us, because we knew they were getting shafted. We (the arco drivers) would just wait for the dedicated lane to clear, and use it. When Chevron moved their business over to the KinderMorgan rack...that helped the Arco rack immencely.

[belpre122]

LOL...you guy's would have hated the racks on Harbor Island in Seattle. I can remember many nights when the Texaco(now Motiva), Shell(now KinderMorgan) and Arco(now BP) racks all had double lines of trucks stacked out the gates and onto the streets, waiting to load. At 10 & 11 at night!!

As an hourly driver..I didn't let it bother me....in fact..most of us Arco drivers would let the percentage drivers go around us, because we knew they were getting shafted. We (the arco drivers) would just wait for the dedicated lane to clear, and use it. When Chevron moved their business over to the KinderMorgan rack...that helped the Arco rack immencely.

I pulled a load out of BP Indianapolis last weekend. I thought about ya Stan. Everyone has to wear the FRC (fire resistant clothing) now. My new FRC uniforms aren't in yet, so the company gave me a pair of coveralls to use for the next 2 weeks. Outside temp was 90 degrees. It was torture. At least I am able to take them off when I am done. The BP guys are required to wear FRC clothing at all times. Heck, it wasn't that long ago that those guys were wearing shorts and tennis shoes! When I pulled forward and walked over to get the BOL, I could hardly believe my eyes. There was a huge cooler full of ice and bottled water, with a note that said "help yourself!" It's been a long time since water tasted quite that good. I gotta hand it to BP, that was a nice gesture.

Rumors abound down here that the days are numbered for the BP drivers. Klemm has been running a lot of their loads and is hiring more drivers. Doesn't look good. A friend of mine just hired on at BP about 3 months ago, go figure.

BTW, my company just acquired 23 BPs in NW Indiana including 6 up on the toll road. I think I'll just stay down here in Naptown!

"Evans explained this agreement is the first BP Jobber Supplied Franchise agreement reached east of the Rockies following BP's announcement they would be moving most of its direct supplied marketing areas to jobber supplied."

[belpre122]

I have already made my mind up and am going to make this change it feels right so hopefully it will turn out right...
I will keep you informed once I begin my training on the 28th of July.
Thanks again...Timberwolf

Please keep us posted!

When you go out solo, NEVER hesitate to ask other drivers if you are not sure about something. Especially at the loading racks. They WILL help you.

Take your time. Always STOP and think for a moment before you open a valve, and reaffirm that you are hooked up correctly. (I can't tell you how many times that simple advice has saved my arse, especially when I was a rookie) Dropping diesel fuel into a gas tank (or vice versa), is called a cross-drop/trans-mix and at the very least, will ruin your day.

Don't forget rain gear. Ever. :wink:

BOL. I think that you are going to enjoy the job Wolf.