ABF 2 yr program

[WOLF RIVER]

Has anyone gone through ABF's 2 yr program or commitment? I am enrolled at our local tech school for my cdl class. After which I would have to go to ABF 3 week course. Ive talked to the local ABF manager about working for them- via email. Right now the door is cracked open not slammed in my face. Monday I will call him personally and ask him the same questions. But I kinda wanted some first hand info. What is this 2 yr commitment for taking a 3 week class. Is it just as simple as you will work for us or what? I am looking for a local postion or hub to hub. Sounds like it is possible.

Thanks in advance. Oh I also found out this am that the school I am going to has some earlier openings. I was signed up to start 02/18/08 they have openings for 01/10/08!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bigdaddyjollyrob]

Take the 1/10 class and get the ball rolling.You will be glad you did. I'm currently in CDL School at the Teamsters Training Academy and ABF is a union company.My head Instructor worked there fo 30 yrs and loved it. I dont know what the 3wkclass 2yr commitment is. My guess is like most companies its they will train you to get your cdl or new grad orientation for 3wks but then want a 2yr commitment from you to work for them. Union jobs start out at 17-18+hr then go up to $22+ hr in that 2 yrs.You will be home everynight or day if you get into line haul and will most likely be off weekends. Happy New Year. If you have any other questions or dont get an answer to this one look for Cold Frosty Mug he's union and has alot of info for us newbies.

[ben45750]

if you get into line haul and will most likely be off weekends.

The only ABF line-haul drivers that get weekends off are guys at the top of the seniority list, I mean top 5-10%. ABF runs their line-haul the same as Roadway and Yellow.

I'm not trying to burst your bubble but I spent a year with Roadway and I know what it's like. Your cell phone will become your best friend, because believe me your going live by the phone. It's going to wake you up when your exhausted and it's not going to ring when your ready to go.

The good ole' brotherhood of Teamsters, don't get me started. When things get slow the greed gets higher. When your fellow brother with higher seniority starts seeing his pay check get smaller he will start screaming "layoff time!". Instead off sticking together through the rough times like "brothers" they would rather see you sit at home and starve making nothing so they can afford to pay for their toys.

I don't know? Maybe I wasn't cut out for the teamsters? I do know that year with roadway was one of the most depressing years of my life.

Ask your trainer that worked for ABF how many retired buddy's from ABF he has.

[bigdaddyjollyrob]

if you get into line haul and will most likely be off weekends.

The only ABF line-haul drivers that get weekends off are guys at the top of the seniority list, I mean top 5-10%. ABF runs their line-haul the same as Roadway and Yellow.

I'm not trying to burst your bubble but I spent a year with Roadway and I know what it's like. Your cell phone will become your best friend, because believe me your going live by the phone. It's going to wake you up when your exhausted and it's not going to ring when your ready to go.

The good ole' brotherhood of Teamsters, don't get me started. When things get slow the greed gets higher. When your fellow brother with higher seniority starts seeing his pay check get smaller he will start screaming "layoff time!". Instead off sticking together through the rough times like "brothers" they would rather see you sit at home and starve making nothing so they can afford to pay for their toys.

I don't know? Maybe I wasn't cut out for the teamsters? I do know that year with roadway was one of the most depressing years of my life.

Ask your trainer that worked for ABF how many retired buddy's from ABF he has.

Thanks for the correction about wekends. What company do you work for now?How do you like them? What would be the best place for newbies to look to get started? Thanks

[Grumman]

For the first time in a long time, ABF has laid off this year as well as last. Most of the lower people didn't make it to November this year. As far as the road goes (which is what I did out of 086) you are on a call block which starts every three hours 12, 3, 6, 9, 12, etc. You are subject to call for the first hour 12-1, 3-4, 6-7. If they don't call you in that first hour then you are safe until the next block two hours later. Usually they really can't tell you when you'll be called so you have to sit and maintain a state of readiness cause when you are called you usually have two hours until you have to hit the window. So there is no going off and doing things while you are at home. They'll call your cell and/or your house phone and they better be able to get ahold of you. AS for time off it is ATO. 24+10 for 6 dispatches, 48+10 for 12 dispatches, 72+10 for 18 dispatches and you can bank them. Typically you'll go out and come back with a layover in between, or possible 3 dispatches, with the last being to your domicile. You'll work the extra board until you have enough senoirity to get a bid. Out of a big break bulk that might take 15 years. There are a lot more details, however you do make good money and benefits, but you do work for it. You can't really get better than ABF in the LTL industry and they typically don't layoff. They plan their growth slowly. They don't hire a ton of drivers like YRC and then lay them off right away. This last two years have been extremely difficult on the whole industry. If you can get in and handle the lean times you should come out alright. There are quite a few retiring in the next couple of years.

[bigdaddyjollyrob]

For the first time in a long time, ABF has laid off this year as well as last. Most of the lower people didn't make it to November this year. As far as the road goes (which is what I did out of 086) you are on a call block which starts every three hours 12, 3, 6, 9, 12, etc. You are subject to call for the first hour 12-1, 3-4, 6-7. If they don't call you in that first hour then you are safe until the next block two hours later. Usually they really can't tell you when you'll be called so you have to sit and maintain a state of readiness cause when you are called you usually have two hours until you have to hit the window. So there is no going off and doing things while you are at home. They'll call your cell and/or your house phone and they better be able to get ahold of you. AS for time off it is ATO. 24+10 for 6 dispatches, 48+10 for 12 dispatches, 72+10 for 18 dispatches and you can bank them. Typically you'll go out and come back with a layover in between, or possible 3 dispatches, with the last being to your domicile. You'll work the extra board until you have enough senoirity to get a bid. Out of a big break bulk that might take 15 years. There are a lot more details, however you do make good money and benefits, but you do work for it. You can't really get better than ABF in the LTL industry and they typically don't layoff. They plan their growth slowly. They don't hire a ton of drivers like YRC and then lay them off right away. This last two years have been extremely difficult on the whole industry. If you can get in and handle the lean times you should come out alright. There are quite a few retiring in the next couple of years.

Thanks for all the info,I graduate at mid-end of feb,when is the best time to try and get on with them? which union shop will give a newbie a shot,yellow,roadway,abf,usf holland or new penn? Thanks Happy New Year

[WOLF RIVER]

What I did is - I filled out a online application and also faxed a cover letter and resume to the local terminal manager and also the corporate offices. In that letter I stated I was currently enrolled and I expect to graduate on --/--/08. I was asking them to give me the oppertunity to work for them as a dockworker during school and them after my graduation to allow me to become part of the _______ team as a company driver. Beleave it on not it has had a better response than I thought it would. Most all of the companines list whats available for jobs online. Also somone on here applied every month until he got hired. Just dont stop until you get what you want.

It seems as if you can put up with the on call "part time" for a while after that you would be in pretty good shape. My question is how long does the - on call last and since you are really only working part time but hired as a full time employee I would assume your full beneifits would still be there????

What I am looking for is long term I am currently 37yrs old and I should have looked into planning my retirement years ago. Right now with the housing market in a slump my current trade (carpenter) isnt paying crap. So if I can stick it out for 25 yrs and shut up I should be in good shape.

HAPPY NEW YEAR AND GOOD LUCK

[ben45750]

if you get into line haul and will most likely be off weekends.

The only ABF line-haul drivers that get weekends off are guys at the top of the seniority list, I mean top 5-10%. ABF runs their line-haul the same as Roadway and Yellow.

I'm not trying to burst your bubble but I spent a year with Roadway and I know what it's like. Your cell phone will become your best friend, because believe me your going live by the phone. It's going to wake you up when your exhausted and it's not going to ring when your ready to go.

The good ole' brotherhood of Teamsters, don't get me started. When things get slow the greed gets higher. When your fellow brother with higher seniority starts seeing his pay check get smaller he will start screaming "layoff time!". Instead off sticking together through the rough times like "brothers" they would rather see you sit at home and starve making nothing so they can afford to pay for their toys.

I don't know? Maybe I wasn't cut out for the teamsters? I do know that year with roadway was one of the most depressing years of my life.

Ask your trainer that worked for ABF how many retired buddy's from ABF he has.

Thanks for the correction about wekends. What company do you work for now?How do you like them? What would be the best place for newbies to look to get started? Thanks

I work for Advantage Tank lines hauling fuel, it's not a bad job but you still have all the crap you have with any trucking company.

I just wanted you know the negatives that come with a Union job. I will admit the pay can be great, it's probably one of the best paying gigs you can get but it does come with a lot of negatives. The goal is the get enough seniority so you can get a bid run, but most of the bid runs are no better than the extra board. A bid run really just means you go to one place instead of running everywhere on the extra board. Even on a bid run your still pretty much on call and you run when the freight is available. You pretty much have to hold the top bid for a location to really know when your start time is.

As far as a good place for a new driver in LTL. Conway in my opinion is the place to be. I worked for Conway for close to a year but when things slowed down I made the mistake of leaving and going to Roadway. I should have stayed with Conway. Conway runs a daytime city P&D, night time linehaul Monday through Friday.

Another good thing to look at when your choosing a company, look at their stock prices and their stock price history. Look to see who has the best profits and you will find who has freight and who doesn't. You can also see with the stock prices who has growth and who doesn't. When you pick a company you want to pick a company thats growing and who has a good market share. Just like buying stock when your looking for a job, you want to pick a winner not a loser.

As far as getting your CDL through a teamster training, I would think that you are getting great training, probably better training than most. I think you have made a great choice in getting your training but keep an open mind on your options for your future in truck driving.

[WOLF RIVER]

good point on the stocks. My brother in a investment banker - hes getting a call right now

[Snowman7]

What I did is - I filled out a online application and also faxed a cover letter and resume to the local terminal manager and also the corporate offices. In that letter I stated I was currently enrolled and I expect to graduate on --/--/08. I was asking them to give me the oppertunity to work for them as a dockworker during school and them after my graduation to allow me to become part of the _______ team as a company driver. Beleave it on not it has had a better response than I thought it would. Most all of the companines list whats available for jobs online. Also somone on here applied every month until he got hired. Just dont stop until you get what you want.

It seems as if you can put up with the on call "part time" for a while after that you would be in pretty good shape. My question is how long does the - on call last and since you are really only working part time but hired as a full time employee I would assume your full beneifits would still be there????

What I am looking for is long term I am currently 37yrs old and I should have looked into planning my retirement years ago. Right now with the housing market in a slump my current trade (carpenter) isnt paying crap. So if I can stick it out for 25 yrs and shut up I should be in good shape.

HAPPY NEW YEAR AND GOOD LUCK

How long it takes is impossible to predict. It will vary from company to company, terminal to terminal, and even year to year based on the economy. If they land a good account out of your terminal it will create more work, but if they lose one it will hurt production. When you are in the bottom 50% you will always be on pins and needles. You will have good times and bad for 15 years or so. Seniority means everything and effort means nothing. You are totally helpless to control your own fate. When things are going well bank your money because it will change. If you like your current job, next year some one will bump you. Once you think you've made it they change the system. IE close your terminal, or reroute the freight, or the company goes under, or the company gets sold. Union LTL pays well when you are working but it is very fickle and can be very cruel. You are just a number and they dont care whether you eat or starve. And as Ben pointed out your brothers who are higher than you dont care either. Teamster LTL positions were once very good jobs but over the last 20 years countless companies have folded or been bought out. YRC and ABF are the last ones left and both are the targets of constant buyout rumors from DHL, UPS, and FedEx. Its all a guessing game as to the next ten years. Your success will be more luck than anything else. Right place right time right company. YRC is having a hard time right now and has thousands layed off. Check their stock price for the last 18 months. I'm warning you because its not all gravy. Wasting your life sitting by the phone for a call that never comes when the bills are piling up will really take a toll on your mental health. I have been there with both Yellow and Conway (Conway is non union BTW). I am currnetly at UPS Freight and I love my job and the pay but one change in operations and I could get boned and be right back to square one, begging for work. Trust me when I tell you you're never high enough on the seniority ladder until the day you start receiving your pension. And that day never comes for many who have tried. Ask Ben who tried to stick it out with Roadway, or Smooth, who like me, worked for Yellow. I share that dream job goal with you and I wish all of us all the luck in the world. Guys like FeederFred made it, maybe some of us will too!

[WOLF RIVER]

Just out of curiosity does anyone know what conway pays??? Im really searching to find that local job home daily or every other -- kinda the needle in the haystack but I might as well start now as opposed to later

[ben45750]

FeederFred made it, maybe some of us will too!

I'd give a left testicle just to land a job with UPS Package as a Feeder driver.

[ben45750]

Just out of curiosity does anyone know what conway pays??? Im really searching to find that local job home daily or every other -- kinda the needle in the haystack but I might as well start now as opposed to later

Conway was at .38 cpm and $18.50/hr to start and .52 CPM and $22.50/hr top pay. 5 1/2 years to top.

Those were the numbers 2 years ago when I was there.

[Snowman7]

Just out of curiosity does anyone know what conway pays??? Im really searching to find that local job home daily or every other -- kinda the needle in the haystack but I might as well start now as opposed to later

"home daily" wont be the problem, its "home every day, all day" that's the problem.

[WOLF RIVER]

I was just sending a email to my buddy that is a feeder driver at ups - hes also the union steward asking him if UPS is "on call" because that really seems like it would such. Yes I have many side jobs being a carpenter. But I really cant start and stop every 3 hours and oops Im really sorry but now I have to go to work and your front door will just have to get reinstalled in a a day or 2. But hey put a trap over it and it will be fine. My problem is it seems most OTR companines are just lying ?????'s.

[Snowman7]

I was just sending a email to my buddy that is a feeder driver at ups - hes also the union steward asking him if UPS is "on call" because that really seems like it would such. Yes I have many side jobs being a carpenter. But I really cant start and stop every 3 hours and oops Im really sorry but now I have to go to work and your front door will just have to get reinstalled in a a day or 2. But hey put a trap over it and it will be fine. My problem is it seems most OTR companines are just lying ?????'s.

Thats why its better to be laid off then slow. When its slow you have to be available in case they call and you have two hours to show up. Your on call the whole week to get 1-2 days and cant really do anything else.

Unless you're extremely lucky you can forget about feeder at UPS Parcel. they get those jobs after years in a part time dock slot and then years in a package delivery car. Rarely hire from the outside.

Hopefully your wife has a good job cause its almost impossible to make it thru the first couple years. I can pretty much guarantee you will be laid off alot at Yellow/Roadway. Conway is a little better but also difficult (they laid me off but it varies by terminal), I would try UPS Freight. Its worked out great for me. Plus UPS already bought us so thats not an issue and were growing.

[bigdaddyjollyrob]

Thanks for all the info. I'm keeping an open mind and have started getting accepted by some companies,ATS specialized,CFI, I talked to Conway and was told to come see them once I had my cdl or I could do there training in 2008.They told me I'd work the dock then shuttle driver before getting p&d or line haul. Thats fine with me $18.50 beats my current $15hr. I'm also looking into tanker jobs, most dont hire newbies but have found a few.Still looking for more. Talked to local taner guys who said get CDl then walk in the door,your new and they can train you,no bad habbits yet. So I will.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Happy New Year. Old dominion is hiring in my stated for dockworkers part time. I think I'm going to give them a call.There hours wont interfer with my cdl schooling but it will mess up my unemployment. Better in the long run I think.

[bigdaddyjollyrob]

if you get into line haul and will most likely be off weekends.

The only ABF line-haul drivers that get weekends off are guys at the top of the seniority list, I mean top 5-10%. ABF runs their line-haul the same as Roadway and Yellow.

I'm not trying to burst your bubble but I spent a year with Roadway and I know what it's like. Your cell phone will become your best friend, because believe me your going live by the phone. It's going to wake you up when your exhausted and it's not going to ring when your ready to go.

The good ole' brotherhood of Teamsters, don't get me started. When things get slow the greed gets higher. When your fellow brother with higher seniority starts seeing his pay check get smaller he will start screaming "layoff time!". Instead off sticking together through the rough times like "brothers" they would rather see you sit at home and starve making nothing so they can afford to pay for their toys.

I don't know? Maybe I wasn't cut out for the teamsters? I do know that year with roadway was one of the most depressing years of my life.

Ask your trainer that worked for ABF how many retired buddy's from ABF he has.

Thanks for the correction about wekends. What company do you work for now?How do you like them? What would be the best place for newbies to look to get started? Thanks

I work for Advantage Tank lines hauling fuel, it's not a bad job but you still have all the crap you have with any trucking company.

I just wanted you know the negatives that come with a Union job. I will admit the pay can be great, it's probably one of the best paying gigs you can get but it does come with a lot of negatives. The goal is the get enough seniority so you can get a bid run, but most of the bid runs are no better than the extra board. A bid run really just means you go to one place instead of running everywhere on the extra board. Even on a bid run your still pretty much on call and you run when the freight is available. You pretty much have to hold the top bid for a location to really know when your start time is.

As far as a good place for a new driver in LTL. Conway in my opinion is the place to be. I worked for Conway for close to a year but when things slowed down I made the mistake of leaving and going to Roadway. I should have stayed with Conway. Conway runs a daytime city P&D, night time linehaul Monday through Friday.

Another good thing to look at when your choosing a company, look at their stock prices and their stock price history. Look to see who has the best profits and you will find who has freight and who doesn't. You can also see with the stock prices who has growth and who doesn't. When you pick a company you want to pick a company thats growing and who has a good market share. Just like buying stock when your looking for a job, you want to pick a winner not a loser.

As far as getting your CDL through a teamster training, I would think that you are getting great training, probably better training than most. I think you have made a great choice in getting your training but keep an open mind on your options for your future in truck driving.

Thats one of the things that I dont like,I dont have time to wait by the phone to see if maybe I can work. I'll try it out due to joining the union but my mind/options are wide open.Thanks

These are all very good points. Other things to consider:

LTL isn't really growing like it used to. This is for several reasons. One is that LTL (moreso than truckload) is heavily tied to the domestic US economy, which has been slow of late and shows little sign of picking up. And in being so tied to the US economy, it is much more affected by all the outsourcing and plant closings that go on. Third is that other modes of transporation (truckload, intermodal, parcel, 3PL's, etc) have become competitors to LTL carriers in recent years. This is especially true in truckload which suffers from chronic overcapacity...made worse by many TL companies buying too many trucks to beat the 2007 emissions. When truckload is at or over capacity, freight spills over onto the LTL carriers. When truckload is under capacity, TL carriers start trying to run LTL freight. But unless they're working with a 3PL and consolidating truckloads, this isn't very profitable to a TL carrier - espcially with the new HOS. But it's better than the alternative, which is hauling air. Eventually this situation will reverse if/when the economy picks up.

Now, the flipside of that coin is that for the LTL carriers that do survive, there is no new competition. Can you name an LTL carrier that's entered the market in the last 15 years? With escalating land prices, increased local/city/state regulations/etc, it is very difficult to get a hub/terminal/breakbulk system up and running. Not like truckload where someone with a used Swift truck is a new competitor.

Also, UPS and FedEx have spent billions to buy into LTL which raises the stakes in the game. These companies have huge international parcel networks that they can leverage against other carriers to get more freight. UPS can go to a customer and say "Look, I'm already handling your ground and air shipments, I'll give you a discount if you give me your LTL." POOF! Goodbye SAIA, Conway, Yellow, ABF, etc.

If I were trying to get into the biz, I'd be looking at either UPS Freight or FedEx Freight or FedEx National LTL. Because of their deep pockets and big parcel networks, those two companies are your best bets for long-term stability. FedEx bought Watkins (now FedEx National LTL) with the main intention of going after Yellow, Roadway's, and ABF's long-haul freight. Not saying the big union outfits are going under, but their higher costs mean it's gonna be harder for them to compete going forward. And unless you have alot of seniority...20% of nothing is still nothing when you're sitting by the phone not working. Now another issue is that many LTL carriers are top-heavy with baby-boomer drivers getting ready to retire. This is especially true of the unionized companies. So for a guy in his 30's, there's room to move up the ladder as men above you retire.

The bottom line is that there will be more consolidations in LTL. The big guys will get bigger and the smaller players will either be gobbled up or out of business. The industry will always pay heads-and-shoulders above truckload because of the presence of the Teasmters. With large terminal networks and stable workforces, it's fairly easy to organize an LTL carrier. That's why the non-union LTL's pay close to the unionized ones.

[bigdaddyjollyrob]

My Interview went great with ABF. The TM approved my application and is now sending it off to Arkansas for final approval. I should hear back in 2-4 wks, He said to continue to do landscaping on the side because at this time its slow and at the start I will work a few days a week and will then goto Fort Smith for Schooling. He said In this business sometimes its about great timing and persistence. He said I was very persistent and respectful every-time I called him and he told me to called back. (Persistence goes a long way) Thats why he's giving me a shot. I thanked my union school director and my cousin & his friend for putting in a good word for me at ABF .It worked! I brought the TM copies of my Drivers License,Driving record,Med card,Graduation certificate and BCI. He told me to come here and work hard, be on time and he will be happy. Now the waiting game begins. I turned down a straight job this afternoon so to not burn that bridge if something happens in the future and I need some work. Patience paid off or will pay off. KNOW I NEED TO BE MORE PATIENT AND WAIT FOR THE CALL. I'm calling my old boss back to find out when the season is starting and to fill him in on what's going on. He sent word to me that I can work when ever I need It and If I don't find work before hand come help him out. I'll keep you guys posted.
I will continue to look for a full-time driving position. I'm currently working for Graylawn Foods as a fueler and yardman. I bump the dock every-night several times a night in different trucks. The job is great the pay sucks but I get to practice every night and get paid. I'm enjoying the experience.