Failure in a lease programs.....

[Cluggy619]

Maybe someone here can clear this up for me. Why would anyone lease with a company, and not put their truck to work when the company doesn't?

Is there a clause in the contract preventing you from doing this?

If a company fails to give you the miles, wouldn't you find loads yourself anyways, even if it's not with the company?

Isn't there a board where you can minimize the deadheading, or time waiting?

How about a minimum miles per week clause that the company has to provide?

I ask these questions because everytime someone trys a least program out, they fail at it. I know if I was paying for a truck thru one of these programs, it would be making me money. Whether the company profitted by it or not.

But that just me. Any info?

[century451]

Your a propriatary entity to that company when you lease to them.

[driver67373]

Maybe someone here can clear this up for me. Why would anyone lease with a company, and not put their truck to work when the company doesn't?

Is there a clause in the contract preventing you from doing this?

If a company fails to give you the miles, wouldn't you find loads yourself anyways, even if it's not with the company?

Isn't there a board where you can minimize the deadheading, or time waiting?

How about a minimum miles per week clause that the company has to provide?

I ask these questions because everytime someone trys a least program out, they fail at it. I know if I was paying for a truck thru one of these programs, it would be making me money. Whether the company profitted by it or not.

But that just me. Any info?

You also are hauling THEIR trailer WHICH means you can't use it for hauling someone else's freight.

[geomon]

The only way would be if there is a clause in your contract with your carrier where any freight you find from outside sources (brokers etc) is booked under their authority and you/they have worked out a % of the load fee that they receive for this. I don't think there are a lot of companies that offer this as it is most likely a pain for them.

[Cluggy619]

I'm sorry....maybe I'm not getting this...

My money pays for the lease.

My money pays for the fuel.

My money pays for other things like insurance thru them, maintnance fee, etc.

Yes, it may be their trailer hooked up to the tractor, but it's my money paying for that tractor.

Why is it I must suffer with low pay again? Because it's their company that tricked thousands of drivers to sign on, then not put them to work?

Nobody signs on a lease program thinking they are going to be waiting in a truckstop for a load...usually, the company has promised that they would be taken care of.

And lets face it. Their are loads out there that can be paid under the table, can't they?

I'm all for doing the right thing, but when a company puts the screws to ya, you do what you can to survive, right?

[Cluggy619]

You also are hauling THEIR trailer WHICH means you can't use it for hauling someone else's freight.

And why not? If your company is not giving you the loads, why not use their trailer? Or better yet, unhook their trailer, and haul someone elses.

This is a dog eat dog world, and I'm not starving because some punk kid dispatcher only making $9/hour, deciding why should you make more than he is. This is every drivers problem.

But a lease program is different. You PAY for the priviledge of getting top miles. You pay out of your pocket to drive their truck, and these punks rather you sit. To me, that BS. You better believe if I'm paying for the truck, it's going to make me money, contract or no. Am I right?

[Uturn2001]

Ok how about this.

It is illegal to haul freight under some one else's authority that is not authorized by the person or company that holds that operating authority.

It is also considered theft to use someone's property without their permission, and if you go and get a load on your own and use the company's trailer to do it you do not have their permission and therefore it can be considered theft.

Finally it is usually written into the LP agreement and/or the operating lease that states you can not haul freight using the company equipment that the company has not obtained.

Then add to it that there is usually a clause in the LP contract that says that you may not lease the truck to another carrier until the truck is paid in full, or something of that nature.

When you take the sum of all of this it is why so many of us say it is really stupid to finance your truck from the same people who control your freight.

[Cluggy619]

Ok how about this.

It is illegal to haul freight under some one else's authority that is not authorized by the person or company that holds that operating authority.

It is also considered theft to use someone's property without their permission, and if you go and get a load on your own and use the company's trailer to do it you do not have their permission and therefore it can be considered theft.

Finally it is usually written into the LP agreement and/or the operating lease that states you can not haul freight using the company equipment that the company has not obtained.

Then add to it that there is usually a clause in the LP contract that says that you may not lease the truck to another carrier until the truck is paid in full, or something of that nature.

When you take the sum of all of this it is why so many of us say it is really stupid to finance your truck from the same people who control your freight.

I answer the last statement first. I agree, and after reading the failed messages on this board, would never sign a lease porgram with any company.

As to the rest, pleast list where these laws are written, then we are done with this thread.

[geomon]

It is illegal to haul freight under some one else's authority that is not authorized by the person or company that holds that operating authority.

Nuff said....

Other than that, you need to ask the carrier if they have a special provision that allows that...

I'll wiat for "Mr FMCSA regs" (the good Rev) to find the paragraphs that pertain to this. I would assume that would apply as well to an O/O leased on.

[Mr. Ford95]

My question is, why would a company intentionally keep you from getting miles?? If your not making money, they aren't making money either if your sitting all the time. If your sitting, that means you have very little money to pay them for the lease which means they are losing money. Yes it could be the dispatchers fault so change dispatchers. If that doesn't fix it, maybe it's you. Are you turning down loads?? Sometimes it is the entire company that is the problem. Don't always believe that they are keeping you from getting good miles on purpose, that would be bad business on their part and is just plain stupid.

We need to remember in a Fleece Purchase Scam and that is what they are PEOPLE. The way the company is making their money is by releasing the same truck over and over to different drivers til they trade it in. That and also going after the drivers that turn them in for all the money owed them for not completeing the lease after not giving them any miles. I have serveral friends that ended up oweing PRIME 10-15K for breaking their leases because PRIMES starved them out of the trucks to give them to another driver.

[Cluggy619]

My question is, why would a company intentionally keep you from getting miles?? If your not making money, they aren't making money either if your sitting all the time. If your sitting, that means you have very little money to pay them for the lease which means they are losing money. Yes it could be the dispatchers fault so change dispatchers. If that doesn't fix it, maybe it's you. Are you turning down loads?? Sometimes it is the entire company that is the problem. Don't always believe that they are keeping you from getting good miles on purpose, that would be bad business on their part and is just plain stupid.

First, I never sign a lease with any company. Here in Texas, tractors are becoming available as truckers re-tired(or are just plain tired of the BS) fairly cheap. So before I would ever sign a lease, I would run my own.

Second. The company is making money. You are paying them for the truck. They don't care if you make a profit, as long as they take their payment. And to understand this, you have to go thru all that they take from the driver on a weekly basis. Hell, you can buy your own rig for that. So why lease? The company sell you on a idea that by leasing their truck, you will make more money. It's all BS, which is why I asked these questions.

And I know that the law, if it evers get posted, states that your not suppose to use their equipment. So where is the laws protecting that driver when the company leaves him/her out to dry? No where to be found. So why not use the truck? Your paying for it, and the company is failing to uphold their end of the deal that got you to sign. You have to make a profit.

Now me, legal or illegal, I'd use the truck. Setup my own network in case the company leaves me out to dry. And what about the company? What can they do, cancel the lease? Make a mark on your DAC? That might even help you on the next company...it proves your NOT going to sit around while dispatch has their finger picking their butt. Your going to work, wether they like it or not. Maybe that alone will inspire them to give you enough work so that you can't do that very thing.

What do you think?

[Cluggy619]

We need to remember in a Fleece Purchase Scam and that is what they are PEOPLE. The way the company is making their money is by releasing the same truck over and over to different drivers til they trade it in. That and also going after the drivers that turn them in for all the money owed them for not completeing the lease after not giving them any miles. I have serveral friends that ended up oweing PRIME 10-15K for breaking their leases because PRIMES starved them out of the trucks to give them to another driver.

My point exactly...so why not use the truck? The company says no? SCREW THEM. Your paying for it. Use it.

[geomon]

I know what you're saying and it sounds logical...if it were only legal which I dont' think it is.

You need your own authority to do what you're saying and you will need insurance to get that authority ;and to get that insurance you need to show proof of ownership or the lien holder...that is where I believe you will hit a brick wall.

It almost sounds like some of these carriers are in the truck leasing business and just run freight as a sidelight... :?

[Useless]

Why not haul use the truck to haul the freight anyway??

Regardless of what you think is "fair", if you have ANY type of accident while in transit, major or minor, you'll find that you have NO insurance coverage, and you will have to answer to state AND federal authorities for your violations. The same would apply if you are stopped by any law enforcement authority.

The company you leased from can be sued, the broker, (if there is one) the shipper, AND the consignee could also face liability exposure as well.

Now, to add a little frosting to the cake, even if all goes "well", the party who retained your services would be under NO LEGAL OBLIGATION to pay you for your services, because you were operating outside the law in the first place!!

The fact that they retained your services could also place them in legal jepordy with state and local officials as well.

Oh, one more little problem; you may be leasing the truck, but the company still owns and controls the asset, and the trailer as well; so, you would be well advised to have plenty of money put away for a good criminal defense lawyer, because of the illliegal and unauthorized use of the companies asset, the company you lease from may well request that the state and/or federal authorities place you in a special housing program under intense supervision. The will provide you with shelter, clothing, food, and medical atttention, but you won't get many miles. At the same time, you won't have to worry about paying off that lease!!

The IRS will also be wanting to ask you why you neglected to inform them of your activities and income as well!!

But, really?? What do I know??

I've only been operating companies (including manufacturing companies who used trucking companies to haul freight!!) for a little over two decades, so I'm sure that you know more than I do, Cluggy!!
:wink:

[fireman932003]

Hey Cluggy, I will be over to your house later to get your trailer. I have some freight over at your neighbors house to haul. That's ok right? After all, I am paying for the truck, right?

[Bigmon]

If you're gonna go broke with a lease you might as well use their truck for all it's worth, in my opinion. I know trash haulers that haul extra trash on the side for cash. I know car haulers that haul extra stuff in the trunk of cars. Seems to be standard practice where I am.

i think cluggy is just stirring the pot and you all gave in to him.

[Useless]

i think cluggy is just stirring the pot and you all gave in to him.

Perhaps, but Cluggy seems to enjoy demonstrating his collassal ignorance, and I think that there are times when he just can't help himself!!!!

Who knows?? Maybe he can get his good buddy Spencerain a cushy job like the one he claims to have!!

[Cluggy619]

i think cluggy is just stirring the pot and you all gave in to him.

Perhaps, but Cluggy seems to enjoy demonstrating his collassal ignorance, and I think that there are times when he just can't help himself!!!!

Who knows?? Maybe he can get his good buddy Spencerain a cushy job like the one he claims to have!!

I am stiring the pot. And all of you are right. Of course I have no legal means to use leased equipment for my own runs. no insurance coverage, no authority to run my own freight. Same as all of those who have done the lease programs with so many companies.

Their should in place to prevent companies from hanging their drivers out to dry when they join these lease programs. Causing drivers to become bankrupt by this means should illegal as hell. Anywhere else, this would be considered fraud. Companies like this should be made to pay the drivers back, but instead, we take the role of "we can't do anything, we are just drivers." It's BS, and if anyone has the power to change things, it's us.

So how do we get things started? WE JUST DID! :wink: