SAME SEX MARRIAGE

[ssoutlaw]

Totally against it. Goes against God, the Bible, Laws of humanity. Our Kids these days are screwed up enough without being taught that homosexuality is ok. Its not ok. Its perverted.

So, Trkntxn,

Where is your moral indignation against pedophiles getting married??

I have not seen any ballot initiatives or state Constitutional Ammendments prohibiting sexual predators from getting married??

Thats a whole different thread, stay on track Useless....lol :P

[trkntxn]

Useless Where does this thread ask about sexual predators? Thought it was taking a survey on Same Sex Marriages. Which Im 100% against. Definetly against them adopting kids. You seemed pissed about my last reply on the subject. Not apologizing because thats where I stand. Im against homosexuality. As far as your sexual predators marrying statement. Ill tell you where I stand on that. I think a bullet between the eyes would be too good for them. Hope this doesnt upset you. Have a good day.

[Fozzy]

Totally against it. Goes against God, the Bible, Laws of humanity. Our Kids these days are screwed up enough without being taught that homosexuality is ok. Its not ok. Its perverted.

All those are personal opinions and are fine as self choices. The problem (for you anyway) is that we live in America were God, The Bible and the laws of humanity, come second to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. No one is stopping you from having an opinion, but you get to keep your opinions to yourself and of course to your home. Your rights end at the tip of someone else's nose.

[Useless]

Useless Where does this thread ask about sexual predators? Thought it was taking a survey on Same Sex Marriages. Which Im 100% against. Definetly against them adopting kids. You seemed pissed about my last reply on the subject. Not apologizing because thats where I stand. Im against homosexuality. As far as your sexual predators marrying statement. Ill tell you where I stand on that. I think a bullet between the eyes would be too good for them. Hope this doesnt upset you. Have a good day.

Trkntxn:

I'm not "pissed" about your reply at all....I just think that the priorities of the anti-ga movement are woefully misplaced. I also have serious problems with using any constitution, Unites States, or on the State level, to grant one group of law abiding citizens rights, while denying those same rights to law abiding gay people, simply because it rubs some people the wrong way.

The purpose of any Constitution, at the State or Federal Level, is to ennumerate the rights of The People, and to identify and restrict the powers of governments.

With the exception of the 18th ammendment, which was an abyssmal failure, our constitutions have never been used for ordaining a social order, or a societal preferance.

That's why so many of out U.S. Contitutional Ammendmants begin with the words "Congress shall make no law".

In any event, you have failed to address my question that I posed to you; Where your priorities are concerned, and, for that matter, your religious beliefs are concerned, why is banning gay marraiges more important than banning the rights of pedophiles, rapists, child molesters, and sexual predators to be leagaly married??

Obviously, so-called "Good Christians" DO see the issue of gay marraige as being more important, because their have been no outcrys or demands for sex offenders to be barred from marraige!!

The majority of sexual predators are HETEROSEXUAL, not homosexual!! This issue is nothing more than legalized homophobia at work here.

[Useless]

Totally against it. Goes against God, the Bible, Laws of humanity. Our Kids these days are screwed up enough without being taught that homosexuality is ok. Its not ok. Its perverted.

Fozzy Wrote:
All those are personal opinions and are fine as self choices. The problem (for you anyway) is that we live in America were God, The Bible and the laws of humanity, come second to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. No one is stopping you from having an opinion, but you get to keep your opinions to yourself and of course to your home. Your rights end at the tip of someone else's nose.

Useless Response: (With Pun Intended!!)

Fozzy:

While I agree with you in most resects regarding this matter, I will disagree on the part of your statement that I highlighted.

The very purpose of The 1st Ammendment was to ensure freedom of religion, the practice thereof, and free speech.

I don't think that Trkntxn should be told to "keep his opinions to himself", or within the confines of his home. His right to free speech is just as protected as yours or mine, or anybody else's.

As far as trying to take his theocratic beliefs, and have them enacted as laws?? That is woefully misguides and wrong.

The arguement that "We are a Christian Nation" is as fallacious as it is absurd. The very purpose of The First Ammendment was to ensure that we would NOT be a nation of Christians, or Jews, or Muslims, or Hindus, or any or Reformed Parking Meteritarians.

The Treaty of Tripoli, signed by Thomas Jefferson, and Ratified by 2/3's of The Senate, explicitly states that we are NOT a Christian nation.

FOUNDED upon Judeo-Christian Beliefs? Perhaps, to some extent, we were!!

GOVERNED by Judeo-Christian Beliefs??

The 1st Ammendment expressly forbids that, as well it should!!

[Fozzy]

More of what I was referring is that an adult can lead whatever life and subject their minor children to their silliness until of course the children grow old enough to escape. I guess that's not true for homosexuals and basically proves the point of the thread.

You have the right to ACT as nutty and have every nutty opinion that you like an it can in fact be LAW in your own home, this does not mean that you can leave your home and expect any of your rules to be relevant to anyone outside of the home. For some reason there is a huge segment of the public that seems to forget that.

[Useless]

More of what I was referring is that an adult can lead whatever life and subject their minor children to their silliness until of course the children grow old enough to escape. I guess that's not true for homosexuals and basically proves the point of the thread.

You have the right to ACT as nutty and have every nutty opinion that you like an it can in fact be LAW in your own home, this does not mean that you can leave your home and expect any of your rules to be relevant to anyone outside of the home. For some reason there is a huge segment of the public that seems to forget that.

I agree with you completely here!! 8)

The notion that gay parants will warp the minds of their adopted child is as absurd as it is asinine. Thirty years ago, those same myopic arguement was being played in the theater of interracial marraiges.

Now, we have the idea of a child in need of love, care, and guidance being adopted by a gay couple, and that is perceived as being wrong. Yet, the idea of a chiled being viewed by so-called "parents" who view their child as the consequence of a night's wild romp in the sheets is somehow acceptable??

Go Figure!!

The "Problems" faced by children being able to properly adjust growing up with two parents of the same sex will come from the same sources as they did thirty years ago; the myopic "Christians", spewwing their homophobic hatred and self righteous indignations "In the nane of The Larrdd"!!

Remember the song??

"......Go ahead and hate your nieghbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend,
Do it in the name of Heaven,
You can justify it in the end!

There won't be any trumpets blowin'.
Come The Judgement Day,
Or the bloody morning after,
One Tin Soldier rides away".....

[trkntxn]

Ok Usless You asked why I would think banning homosexual marriages would be more important than pedofiles, rapists, etc. I never said it was more important, However I had never lumped them in the same catagory. Never really thought about it that way to be honest. I will give my views on it, and from reading your earlier post, I know youre not going to agree. My view- I dont think gays should be allowed to be married period. Call me old fashioned thats how I feel. I feel them ADOPTING kids should not be allowed. I do believe 1 man/1 woman family. I do feel kids will be warped or misguided somehow being raised by homosexuals. Not my idea of normal. Again just my opinion. A rapists or hetrosexual pedofile , let me think here, I cant honestly think of no reason they should not be allowed to be married. If they find someone willing to overlook their perversions.I think they should be jailed, and watched closely afterwards, But to not be allowed to marry, I dont see why.I know its probably a double standard here, But thats just my opinion. And everybody knows what they say about opinions, everyone has one. I guess Im old fashioned, I do try to some what live my life based on Christian values, Although I do have my faults. Instead of going to church today I went and ate a big breakfast , and am now just being lazy . Damn I didnt realize I got so long winded here.

[Useless]

Ok Usless You asked why I would think banning homosexual marriages would be more important than pedofiles, rapists, etc. I never said it was more important, However I had never lumped them in the same catagory. Never really thought about it that way to be honest. I will give my views on it, and from reading your earlier post, I know youre not going to agree.

Useless:
You are absolutely correct, Trkntxn, we will not agree!!

No, you never said that banning pedophiles and rapists from getting married was not as important, although, as we will soon discover by virtue of your own words and writting, banning gay marraige IS more important to you!!

Also, exhibited by the fact that The Christian Right led the charge to ammend state constitutions to forbid gay marraiges between two consenting adults who pose no threat to anyone, other than the self righteous senses of the HypoChristian Right, all while doing absolutely NOTHING to prohibit perverts, pedophiles, and rapists from marrying!!

Trkntxn:
My view- I dont think gays should be allowed to be married period. Call me old fashioned thats how I feel. I feel them ADOPTING kids should not be allowed. I do believe 1 man/1 woman family. I do feel kids will be warped or misguided somehow being raised by homosexuals. Not my idea of normal. Again just my opinion.

Useless:
Your opinion are your Constitutional Right; you are entitled to them. We are talking about matters of laws and Constitutionalities, as well as children who are preyed upon by perverts, not simple matters of opinions.

Trkntxn:
A rapists or hetrosexual pedofile , let me think here, I cant honestly think of no reason they should not be allowed to be married.

Useless:
Okay, so a consenting person who loves another consenting person of the same sex should not be allowed to marry, although they present absolutely no threat to children,or anyone else but the emotional sensations of self righteous Christian Homophobes.

Gottcha'!!

A RAPIST??? A HETEROSEXUAL PEDOPHILE??

THEY should be allowed to marry??

That's OKAY by YOU??

Trkntxn:
If they find someone willing to overlook their perversions.I think they should be jailed, and watched closely afterwards, But to not be allowed to marry, I dont see why.

Useless:
My mother was quite willing to overlook my father's perversions, Trkntxn!! She even helped him along with them!!.....only problem was, neither she nor my father ever bothered ask to me what I thought about it!!

She was also very gracious about overlooking the perversions of her present Good Christian husband, as well!! So unconcerned was she, that she kept HIS perversions a secret as well!!

But, then again, She wasn't the one being raped, was she??!!

Trkntxn:
I know its probably a double standard here, But thats just my opinion.

Useless:
No, there isn't, as you say, PROBABLY a double standard, there id DEFINITELY a double standard; A rather glaring and tawdry one, at that!! Yes, it IS your opinion, Half Baked, and hypocritical though it may be!!

Trkntxn:
And everybody knows what they say about opinions, everyone has one. I guess Im old fashioned,

Useless:
Beats Hell out of having to think, doesn't it, Trkntxn??


Trkntxn:
I do try to some what live my life based on Christian values,

Useless:
No suprise there!! Many Christian think the same way you do!! Hell, both my parents were Good Christians, Too!!

So is my mothers present husband!! And SERIOUSLY, Trkntxn, they BOTH condemm homosexuality, like "Good Christians" should!!

Perhaps "Good Christian Values" might also explain why the pastor of the church, where they are considered to be "The salt of the Earth, Pillars of The Church, Pillers of the community, AND, where they were very active working with........you guessed it, CHILDREN!!....maybe THAT would explain why The PASTOR treated us like DIRT when we walked into his office, and presented police reports, as well as documents and files from Child Protective Services in several different counties, dating back 25yrs. AND a file from Adult Protective Services in one county, where he molested a 21 yr. old grandson who had Downe's Syndrome!!

Ahh, Yes!!! NOW, I REALLY understand, Trkntxn!!

GOOD CHRISTIAN VALUES!!!

That would also explain why, when we tried to make an appointment with the pastor's superiors, as well as members of the Church Board, they REFUSED to return our phone calls or to speak with us....untill they receives a phone call from a police detective, one of my attorneys, AND a rather troublesome phone call from the news department to a local television station, guess what these good Christian people decided to do??

They TRANSFERRED the Good Christian Pastor!!

So, when you talk about your opinions, your admitted double standards, and your Good, Old Fashioned, CHRISTIAN VALUES, your willingness to accept rapists and pedophiles to marry, (as long as it's okay with the spouse!!....as for the CHILDREN under the control and predatory assaults against them??

....oh, that's right, your Good, Old Fashioned VALUES!!!

Children should be seen and not heard!!

ESPECIALLY while they are being raped and assaulted by the pervert who's spouse was "Okay with it all?!!

Yep, Trkntxn!!!

Good, Old Fashioned Christian Values at their very best!!

Trkntxn:
Although I do have my faults. Instead of going to church today I went and ate a big breakfast , and am now just being lazy .
Damn I didnt realize I got so long winded here.

No, Trkntxn, I think that you are wrong there!!

I think that The Good Lord chose you, and to use you as A Devine Instrument....to make my points for me, and to help others understand that while I DO believe in a Highest Power, and I DO accept tHe Divinity of Jesus Christ, (although there never was a dude named "Jesus", his name would have been "Yesshua" I see Christianity as a world of perverse co-dependance and mind controll.....

Thank You!!

Peace,
Useless

[Slimland]

I have never replied to this thread, just for the fact. That I have always felt it entraping.. For Example:

trkntxn
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:09 am Post subject:
Ok Usless You asked why I would think banning homosexual marriages would be more important than pedofiles, rapists, etc. I never said it was more important, However I had never lumped them in the same catagory. Never really thought about it that way to be honest. I will give my views on it, and from reading your earlier post, I know youre not going to agree. My view- I dont think gays should be allowed to be married period. Call me old fashioned thats how I feel. I feel them ADOPTING kids should not be allowed. I do believe 1 man/1 woman family. I do feel kids will be warped or misguided somehow being raised by homosexuals. Not my idea of normal. Again just my opinion. A rapists or hetrosexual pedofile , let me think here, I cant honestly think of no reason they should not be allowed to be married. If they find someone willing to overlook their perversions.I think they should be jailed, and watched closely afterwards, But to not be allowed to marry, I dont see why.I know its probably a double standard here, But thats just my opinion. And everybody knows what they say about opinions, everyone has one. I guess Im old fashioned, I do try to some what live my life based on Christian values, Although I do have my faults. Instead of going to church today I went and ate a big breakfast , and am now just being lazy . Damn I didnt realize I got so long winded here.

The above..

Here we have IMOP a opinion ie belief, that Gays should not marry, basicaly because it goes against Nature, God, etc...

But a Pediphile, Rapist, or anyother kind of, and diffrent forms of EVIL, can..

There is no diffrence!! Sins are Sins,, are they not? So in people's eye's we put the tally on sins.. "This sin is worst than the other" when God IMOP says sins are sins.. And the penalty for Sin "singular" is death.. for the sins are a fruit of the Sin, ie unbelief..
Dont worry, I wont go through it all again

But my point is-- I find myself leaning towards Useless and Fozzy's remarks.. :?

If people want to be in bed with each other, what buisness is it, but thier own..

Lets look at something-- King David-- A Murderer, Adultery, worry, doubt. etc. But all in all, a man who God loved!! Why? Faith

King Solomon-- Towards his old age, practiced paganism, and Idolatry.. But is refrenced in Hebrews as a man of Faith..

Gedion-- A doubter, and a coward, but in the end a man of Faith

And Lot-- Who soul was Vexed because of Sodom and Gomorrah-- and Had sex with his 2 daughters.. But still a man of Faith..


So lets take the plank out of our eye's, before we take the splinter out of there's.. For in the end, IMOP it is who you put your Faith in, than what you do!

[Fozzy]

Over all of these conversations I still cannot see how some people say that homosexuality is against nature when it occurs in many species in nature.

[Useless]

Over all of these conversations I still cannot see how some people say that homosexuality is against nature when it occurs in many species in nature.

[color=indigo]You are right about homosexuality occuring in nature, Fozzy!!

Man, this is getting scary!! I have found myself agreeing with both "Sheepdancer" and YOU!! :shock:

At the same time, I don't spend a lot of time worrying about whether it is a matter of genetics, as some argue, or nature, as you suggest, or the result of events in a person's life that result in an altering of the brain's "hard wiring".

As I have stated before, speaking as a Victim of violent sexual abuse, perpetrated at the hands of my "ex-father", with the cooperation of my "ex-mother", I should be EXTREMELY homophobic.

Speaking as a Survivour of violent sexual abuse, perpetratedat the hands of my ex- father, with the co-operation of my ex-mother, combined with the gay nurses that I worked with, (they were the BEST!! Examples of compassion and caring, they fought like Hell for their patients!!) I find it impossible to be homophobic.

Christians claim that homosexuality is an "abomination in the Eyes of The Lord"; I say "If that truely is the case, then let The Lord be the Final Judge; as for me??

In The Eyes of The Highest Power and The Heavens, I have enough of my own Spiritual work to do.

[Fozzy]

Honestly, I do not care if it is genetic or it is a choice for some. It really does not matter in the least and really shouldn't matter at all in a free country. But as long as some self proclaimed (yet bogus in actions) religious gang is out there to make sure that they are observed being "religious enough" by their sheepish Klan members.. this will not end. It's always strange to see these people in action...

[trkntxn]

Ok Useless. Im throwing in the towell. I never realized a same sex marriage survey would go this far. You know where I stand, Maybe its the way I was brought up to believe. You honestly make some good points. When you brought up gay male nurses, it made me think for a second, My wife is a nurse, who is friends with a gay male nurse where she works. I have to admit he is a decent guy. Ive met him numerous times. He knows I dont approve of it, However Im never rude to him and treat him with the same respect I would anyone else. That being said, I was reading what you said happened to you as a kid at the hands of your parents. Im serious when I say that even though I dont know you , Im truly sorry that happened to you. And especially having no where to turn. No kids should have to endure any of that. It robs them of their innoncence. And I will agree . There are many so called Christians who are basically the scum of the earth. On the other hand there are many Christians who are truly good God fearing people. And I will say even some terrible ones are high up in the churches, look at all these priests these past few years. Well I just finished a very long day I got to go get some sleep.

[Slimland]

Well that sucks, a good debate all done..