How well do you believe the Bible?

[Slimland]

I just clicked on a link about whether or not the end is near, and the guy said that the first recorded words of Jesus were (paraphrasing) [Jesus entered Gallilee and said,] "The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand, repent all ye and be saved."

Now, he MAY have had good intentions as to wanting the crowd to repent and save their souls.... but he was WELL OVER 2000 years off on his prediction/claim!

If you can't believe Jesus.... well.... who CAN you believe?

Apparently some people (including Michelle Bachmann who wants to be the leader of the Free World,) believe that the world (and mankind) is only 6,000 years (and ONE WEEK) old.... and that man walked with dinosaurs! If that is so, we've already existed 50% longer than we had up to the point that a man named Jesus said it was all just about to end.

That's a HECKUVA "margin of error."

I think I'll put my money on the Mayans (who never HEARD of the Bible) who give us until next year! Maybe NOT!

Did Jesus not also say that the Kingdom of God, is within you?

Was He not talking about the Pentecost when the Holy Spirit was to dwell in those who believe..?
So it was at hand, and it was and is here, but in those who believe in Him. I believe that is what he meant.. I could be wrong, but I don't think so..


Matthew 19

23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”
26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
27 Then Peter answered and said to Him, “See, we have left all and followed You. Therefore what shall we have?”
28 So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife[k] or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and the last first.

What sticks out here to me is the word REGENERATION, and IMOP that didn't happen until the Pentecost.

Mark 9
1 And He said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power.”

And here, IMOP he is talking of the same thing, for when the Spirit dwelt in the Apostle's then they were able to heal, and other works.. So they were alive, when the Kingdom of God came, but it was and is within us.


Luke 17
20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’[d] For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”
22 Then He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23 And they will say to you, ‘Look here!’ or ‘Look there!’[e] Do not go after them or follow them. 24 For as the lightning that flashes out of one part under heaven shines to the other part under heaven, so also the Son of Man will be in His day. 25 But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. 26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; 29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.
31 “In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back. 32 Remember Lot’s wife. 33 Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. 35 Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. 36 Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.”[f]
37 And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?”
So He said to them, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”

Here He says it is within you, and then he says “The days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it."
So the difference is the Kingdom of God within you, and the Days of the Son of Man, thus the return..

Note, I am not stating this as fact, just stating it as the way I understand it when I read it..

Good to see you also Hobo..!

[JewelsnTools]

Slim,
I know. I'm a nuisance!
You mentioned something about "witchcraft years"---no, I'm not gonna sling guilt at you for that. In fact, I was hoping you could tell me more about Wiccan/pagan beliefs. There are many old, old religions that honored the Divine Feminine, and many of them are now considered pagan.
The bible mentions wizards who "peep and mutter", and that the Israelites weren't supposed to "suffer a witch to live". Great. Wonder who really put that in there... Anyway, considering all the trouble the RCC went through to murder/burn/destroy all who opposed their man-crazy hierarchy, I'd like to read some of what you discovered over there in witchcraft land!
I'm still hoping someone who recognizes the MANY biblical references to Kundalini comes on here! There was Genesis' tree, Moses' staff & later copper serpent-on-a-pole, Gideon's pot breaking, Jael serving Sisera "stake", Elisha getting a "double portion" of Elijah's anointing, and how the Teacher mentions how He was to be lifted up like the serpent on the pole!
So, more on witchcraft if you can bear it, and if anyone knows ANYTHING AT ALL about Kundalini, Shaktipat, darshan, deeksha, ashrams, or sufi grinding, PLEASE CLUE ME IN!!! Especially some of the more esoteric meditation techniques...hint, hint....
Jewels

[Windwalker]

Jewels, I'd be a bit careful when it comes to Shaktipat. I've spoken to a few people, over the years, that got to know it, and all of them did not have much to say about it that was good. Virtually all of them said that it is not a good experience. Not something they were ever going to try again. A few said it left them suicidal for a time. In one case, it was 3 years (and 4 suicide attempts) before Dennis was himself again. Be careful where you tread.

On another note... I found something that I thought was very interesting.

We have "The Holy Trinity", where we believe in 3 persons in one God. But, looking at some of the definitions from Ancient Hebrew, something a bit different actually comes across. They often referred to God as "Adonai". At first glance, it translates to "My Lord". But, the singular form of it is "Adoni", and "Adonai" is plural.

Jews also call God Adonai, Hebrew for "Lord" (Hebrew: אֲדֹנָי). Formally, this is plural ("my Lords"), but the plural is usually construed as a respectful, and not a syntactic plural. (The singular form is Adoni ("my lord"). This was used by the Phoenicians for the pagan God Tammuz and is the origin of the Greek name Adonis. Jews only use the singular to refer to a distinguished person.)

Alternatively, Adonai and other names of God may be written in the plural form to point out that this one God embodies all of the many Gods that were worshipped by the ancestors of the Israelites and concurrently by the surrounding peoples.

Since pronouncing YHWH is considered sinful, Jews use Adonai instead in prayers, and colloquially would use Hashem (The Name). When the Masoretes added vowel pointings to the text of the Hebrew Bible in the first century CE, they gave the word YHWH the vowels of Adonai, to remind the reader to say Adonai instead.

Then, I came across something else that I found interesting.

The identification of the goddess Asherah (Asherat) as his consort somewhere within the original Jewish faith leads to some explosive conclusions about the identity of the Jewish/Christian God of the Cosmos, the one Monotheistic God with whom we are so familiar from western religion.

But before looking at Asherah, and what she means to the identity of Yahweh, it is worth taking a look at another goddess, Ashteroth. Her significance will become evident a little later.

Referred to as an "abomination" in 2 Kings, Ashteroth was an important deity in the Near East pantheons.

• To the Sumerians she was IN.ANNA (Anu’s beloved) and is an important character in the Sumerian Epics
• To the Assyrians and Babylonians she was Ishtar
• Ashtoreth was her name for the Canaanites
• To the Greeks - Aphrodite
• The Romans - Venus
• The most important equivalent however is the Egyptian goddess Hathor

Hathor was the wife of Horus, the God of War.

Hathor is identified with the symbol of the cow, and statues of her in the 26th Dynasty (572 - 525 BC) in Egypt actually depict her as a cow.

Asherah, (whose name means "she who walks in the sea") supposedly consort of the supreme god El, was also referred to as Elath (the goddess). According to the Ugarit tradition, whose clay tablets contain the earliest known alphabet, she was consort of El, and mother of seventy gods. She is also associated with Baal and is supposed to have interceded to her husband, the supreme god, on Baal’s behalf, for the building of a palace - in order to grant him equal status with other gods.

In the cuniform tablets of Ras Shamrah (Circa 1400 BCE) the head of the Pantheon was El; his wife was Asherat-of-the-sea (Asherah). After El, the greatest god was Baal, son of El and Asherah.

Curiously, Baal’s consort is his mother, Asherah. In the Lebanon traditions Baal is equated with Jupiter.

The History of Jehovah - Secret Identity of Israel's Yahweh Revealed!

It seems that even today, when we say we believe in "monotheism", we actually worship far more than just one deity. In fact, we are still worshipping the whole pantheon. And, people that have studied this far more carefully are able to see much of the Sumerian Pantheon in the Jewish Bible. Not by names, but by actions and orders from God. It would seem that at various times, God contradicts himself, but it may be a different deity within the realm of "God". And, while the names are different, there are very strong correlations between Sumerian Pantheon, Greek Pantheon, Egyptian Pantheon, Hindu Pantheon, etc. Even among the Native American Pantheon, there are deities with characteristics very common to other parts of the world.

So, for those of us that think of ourselves as "Christians", when we pray to God, how many deities are we trying to talk to? And, how many of those deities would be for answering our prayers, but for being "VETOed" by the rest of them? We might believe that there are only 3 persons in one God, but how many deities might be sitting in the wings and adding their two-cents when we ask God for something?

[JewelsnTools]

Thanks for the concern, WW. It hit where you sent it! From what I've found, this is precisely what I've been looking for. Our living, active, powerful connection to the Source of All--immediate, intimate, consuming, directing, constant communion between my Creator and me. I'm so amped I can't take it!!! This sounds more like the Holy Spirit's influence than just squeezing my eyes closed and saying, "I believe". Still, I appreciate the warning..

Have you seen where the actual letters of the Tetragrammaton aren't "YHWH", but "IEVE"? Pronounced "EE AY Vay"? For all the years I read, studied, loved on, and revered the bible, I never ONCE investigated it for myself. I just accepted it because those whom I loved and looked up to acted like it was "holy". In all my years as a follower of Christ, I never ONCE thought there might be a hidden, esoteric meaning to the scriptures-- I just parroted what I'd heard about how "God" was one being...in three different forms. Sort of like water. Or, like us: spirit, soul, and body. Thanks for the Hebrew plurality lesson. The Teacher said that God is Spirit, and they that worship must do so in spirit and in truth. How do we do that when we don't know the truth?? Just what's been handed down. It's an inside job. We each have to find the truth for ourselves.
Whew...that just poured out!

You ever wonder why the bible speaks of how "male and female, created he them"---and how that creation was said to have been after his "image"? Maybe this Asherah makes that concept make more sense. If the Source of All contains both male and female attributes, it only makes sense that there would have been a feminine counterpart to god, at some point. This Asherah fits the bill, nicely. That would make the "Trinity" more like God the Father, God the Mother, and God the Son, right? Any idea when and how Jesus was deified? How some are actually saying that Mary was a deity??? And there's even still a question about Christianity being a monotheistic religion????

It's interesting that you brought up Hathor---it seems like that's who the golden calf at the foot of Mount Sinai was sacred to. When we start reading it for what it is, we're going to be surprised at just how much information is packed in there!!!

The answer to the question of how many "deities" might be contributing to the answer Christians receive in response to their prayers would be an interesting one. First, you'd have to get a generally accepted definition for the concept of "deities". Then, "prayer". Finally, you'd have to find a group of people who were willing to refrain from mentioning how often those prayers were vetoed--- because of how, why, what, and to whom they'd prayed!

It's frightening to discover some of the history and reasons behind the bible we have been given. It's also frightening to discover how it's been tampered with, and how the "keys" to reading it properly have been purposefully left out. And it's easier to just clutch those old, hallowed pages and claim inerrancy. The problem is that they "who loved not the truth" don't even recognize who's being spoken of there..

[JewelsnTools]

Just read that link. That was incredible...thanks!!

[Windwalker]

Thanks for the concern, WW. It hit where you sent it! From what I've found, this is precisely what I've been looking for. Our living, active, powerful connection to the Source of All--immediate, intimate, consuming, directing, constant communion between my Creator and me. I'm so amped I can't take it!!! This sounds more like the Holy Spirit's influence than just squeezing my eyes closed and saying, "I believe". Still, I appreciate the warning..

According to Hindu beliefs (mythology????), there are deities that are "Pranksters", and some that would do harm to mankind. I don't have the names of either of those deities on hand. But, it is possible that some of the things we seek or try is not to our benefit, or the benefit may well hidden. Just like some medications will heal some people, but can kill others. The shaktipat may be one of these, and I can't tell you whether it will do "to you" or "for you".

Have you seen where the actual letters of the Tetragrammaton aren't "YHWH", but "IEVE"? Pronounced "EE AY Vay"? For all the years I read, studied, loved on, and revered the bible, I never ONCE investigated it for myself. I just accepted it because those whom I loved and looked up to acted like it was "holy". In all my years as a follower of Christ, I never ONCE thought there might be a hidden, esoteric meaning to the scriptures-- I just parroted what I'd heard about how "God" was one being...in three different forms. Sort of like water. Or, like us: spirit, soul, and body. Thanks for the Hebrew plurality lesson. The Teacher said that God is Spirit, and they that worship must do so in spirit and in truth. How do we do that when we don't know the truth?? Just what's been handed down. It's an inside job. We each have to find the truth for ourselves.
Whew...that just poured out!

I've also come across things that suggest Yahweh is not "GOD, the Most High". But, in fact, another Son of the Most High GOD. To this day, the Jewish People have a practice that worships "El Shadai", The Most High. But, that may not be Yahweh. Then, a couple of other things I never thought about before... The "ancients" (pre-Hebrew cultures) did not have Angels. For that matter, the concept of "Angels" with wings didn't come up until about 700 BC. Prior to that, they were "Messengers". And, in the time of Enoch, they were "Watchers". The word "angel" is actually derived from another word that translates into Messengers. Some 200+ of these "Watchers" chose to mate with human women and have children with them. That choice was their "fall". Also, Enoch does give their names, and that is also interesting. Nearly every one of their names ends in the letters "EL", which means "GOD". And, it seems that "mating with a human" was not wrong. But, it had to be done with the consent of both the Gods in Heaven and the human on earth. ("Does she appreciate your gaze.")

Sumerian Pantheon does not have a term for Watchers, Messengers, or Angels. Instead, they have Gods and "Lessor Gods". They also have mortals that were deified. (Just as Enoch was taken into Heaven to keep him away from the Fallen Watchers and Nephillim.) It's very possible that their "Lessor Gods" are the same as our Angels.

You ever wonder why the bible speaks of how "male and female, created he them"---and how that creation was said to have been after his "image"? Maybe this Asherah makes that concept make more sense. If the Source of All contains both male and female attributes, it only makes sense that there would have been a feminine counterpart to god, at some point. This Asherah fits the bill, nicely. That would make the "Trinity" more like God the Father, God the Mother, and God the Son, right? Any idea when and how Jesus was deified? How some are actually saying that Mary was a deity??? And there's even still a question about Christianity being a monotheistic religion????

Just read last night, how the kings of ancient Sumeria were chosen. Up until now, all I've had stated, before the flood, the kings were "chosen by the Gods" to rule. Leadership was not handed down from father to son. Instead, there was a ritual where by the "would-be king" proved himself to be fit to rule.

There were "priestesses" in the temples that represented Goddesses. And, since it was said that the God Dumuzi "sated" his wife's sexual desire by "performing" 50 consecutive times without a break, that is what the "would-be king" also had to do.... Every year. (The average man has a "down-time" or "recovery time" required before he can "perform" again.) That was also a time in man's history when a woman was held in just as high regard as a man. If a man's daughter was chosen to be a priestess in the temple, it was cause for celebration. A truly joyous ocassion. It wasn't until after the flood that women and female deities were suppressed.

It's interesting that you brought up Hathor---it seems like that's who the golden calf at the foot of Mount Sinai was sacred to. When we start reading it for what it is, we're going to be surprised at just how much information is packed in there!!!

I've still got a long way to go in my research. It takes a while to find things, then I find myself reading it over several times to really understand what I'm reading. It's looking like the Hebrews picked out what they wanted and left the rest behind.

The answer to the question of how many "deities" might be contributing to the answer Christians receive in response to their prayers would be an interesting one. First, you'd have to get a generally accepted definition for the concept of "deities". Then, "prayer". Finally, you'd have to find a group of people who were willing to refrain from mentioning how often those prayers were vetoed--- because of how, why, what, and to whom they'd prayed!

The idea of a "counsel" of Gods listening to our requests comes from the point where one of the "Lessor" Gods (I don't have his name on the tip of my tongue) complained that he was not mated with anyone, and there was no one for him. He asked permission of the Gods to be mated with a human woman, and she was deified after that. By today's standards, that might be an angel that came down to earth and married a human woman. But, it was not wrong to do so if you had permission for that, and the woman was receptive. It seems that the "fallen angels" resorted to a form of rape without the consent of the Gods.

It's frightening to discover some of the history and reasons behind the bible we have been given. It's also frightening to discover how it's been tampered with, and how the "keys" to reading it properly have been purposefully left out. And it's easier to just clutch those old, hallowed pages and claim inerrancy. The problem is that they "who loved not the truth" don't even recognize who's being spoken of there..

And, I'm still looking. (We need a BOOKWORM smiley)

[JewelsnTools]

According to ANY religion/belief system/mythological tradition, there are "pranksters", and some of them are known as harmful. Religions, as offered to the masses, are a lot like that. Like trying to get full on a dinner of cotton candy.. In order to keep the warning accurate, however, you'd have to say something more like, "the Holy Spirit" shouldn't be sought because She might do me harm. That's Who Kundalini is the spiritual equivalent of, not a multiplicity of prankster "deities"! Believing that someone was listening when I prayed did a lot more damage than this ever could.
Like what you said, WW, 'bout how "angels" were a more recent invention. I didn't know that there was a time when interspecies mating was "okay"---where's that bookworm smiley?? It's only because of our belief in the uniqueness of YHWH that the others were relegated to "angels". So, when the "watchers" decided to come down and create monster hybrids, mankind came to know that YHWH was NOT unique... but they just got called "angels". At least that's what it looks like...
Where did you find that about the one who complained about not having a mate?? Sounds like the "opposite" version of a myth I once read. There, the woman wasn't deified because of the coupling, the "god" was shamed! I'd like to read your source material, WW, if you'd PM it to me! The idea of the sort of morality that would condone exploitative behavior coming from a council of gods is just what got us where we presently are.. Does it ever feel like we're "cattle", to be bred and herded as "they" see fit?
Jewels

[Windwalker]

You'll find a whole wealth of information here:

The Watchers - Nephilim


And, when you're done with that, there's more. But this should give you a start.

[JewelsnTools]

Windy, you are THE MAN!!
My mouth actually watered when I saw all of that!! Wooooohooooo!!
Thanks~
Jewels

[Slimland]

When I get a chance Jewles I will answer your question.. I have been busy so it might be a while, but who knows.. Hey WW, when I get a chance I will look at your links also..

[JewelsnTools]

Fully understood and accepted, Slim. When--and if---you get a minute or two that will be just fine. Thanks..

Oh, and WW? You have absolutely NO RESPECT for my very human need for SLEEP!! I was up until the wee hours with that one!

[hardhead1965]

Jesus came to fulfill the law, remove religious condemnation from man's hand. Then religion comes in and makes new laws to enslave people into satisfying man. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John1:1) ****** God's word or the bible tells us all we need to know. The flesh and the law will satisfy man but only a relationship with Jesus will set a man free and provide salvation.

[golfhobo]

hardhead said:

Jesus came to fulfill the law,

No... I'm pretty sure the scriptures say he came to save mankind. Moses's "law" did not MANDATE that Jesus come. In fact, other than the prophesy of his coming, the fulfillment of Old Testament Jewish Law was limited to obeying the 10 Commandments given by the Jewish God.

remove religious condemnation from man's hand.

I am unaware of any scripture that says that condemnation WAS in "man's" hand. Vengeance is MINE, sayeth the Lord. Even Jesus absolved Pontius Pilate of his own condemnation. Jesus himself REFUSED to condemn ANY man during the time he walked on the Earth.

Then religion comes in and makes new laws to enslave people into satisfying man.

Religion existed for centuries BEFORE Jesus was born. Religious "laws" had enslaved man for centuries before Jesus arrived. Jesus came (according to legend) to FREE mankind from religious laws and give him a direct connection to his (so-called) creator. But, I agree with you that religion is designed to "enslave" mankind to other men who SAY they are a conduit to the creator.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John1:1) ****** God's word or the bible tells us all we need to know.

No, it doesn't. I'm 55 years old, the son of a very GOOD and devout Baptist preacher, and I am not "satisfied" with the "knowledge" imparted to me in the Bible. Who are YOU to say that it should be sufficient for me? Oh yeah... because the MEN who actually WROTE it told you so?

The flesh and the law will satisfy man

Can you tell me what this means? I'm not terribly satisfied with the flesh. And I SURE ain't a fan of laws. You want to know what satisfies me? KNOWLEDGE. So... am I a freak of nature? Or does your scripture LIE? I am supposedly a creation of your God, yet I am neither satisfied by flesh NOR the [Judaic] Law. And before you even think it... I have lived under Christian law most of my life, and am not "satisfied."

but only a relationship with Jesus will set a man free and provide salvation.

This is the core belief of Christian religion(s). A theology promulgated ONLY by followers of the Christian religion. At one time, more than 90% of your God's creation disagreed with this "radical" new belief. 2000 years later, 80% still disagree. Buddhist monks, who dedicate their lives to "spiritual connection and service" don't agree with you... and you would say they are bound for some kind of eternal burning hell because of their OWN "devout" faith in their creator.

As a student of religious diversity, human sociology, and intellectual progressivity.... I have found that there are only TWO enclaves of religious belief that are responsible for ALL the war and destruction since the beginning of recorded history.... the Christians and the Islamist extremists.

Well, that's not entirely true. Even before Christ, God's "chosen people," the Jews believed they had a mandate to KILL infidels in the name of their own God. [Not that others didn't claim the same right.]

The "riddle" of human aggression and mystical obsession predates even the Torah. The phenomena of "idolic" worship predates even the existence of the Jewish people. And the proven existence of a thinking brain in homo sapiens predates both of them... AND their claims of creation.

No... I'm afraid that just coming on here and quoting the Bible to ME is not going to fly. You are not the first, nor the best. In fact... the point I wanted to make was that... only the "simplest" of God's creation (or wherever we came from) resort to such "fundamentalist" propaganda. On a par with the Taliban as I see it.

If I walk into a restaurant and ask what do you have to eat, and the proprietor tells me that "the sustenance of life is the body and spirit of the holy God," I know that the cook has quit and gone home. And I end up with a sub from Subway.

[Windwalker]

What do you think, Hobo... Hardhead does a great deal more talking than reading? He could learn a whole lot if he read more.

[mitchno1]

haha i notice some of you people involved in the reading of obamas book as well in this forum oh for reality LOL

[golfhobo]

What do you think, Hobo... Hardhead does a great deal more talking than reading? He could learn a whole lot if he read more.

I think I am always "too harsh."

Hardhead didn't "talk." He quoted scripture! THIS is what bothers me. I don't care if someone comes in here and says, "the bible teaches that..." or "religions have always taught that..." or even, "I believe that..."

I object to anyone quoting scripture as if it is "infallable" and somehow "proven" as fact. It IS not! Christianity is a "faith based" religion. The Bible can ONLY be accepted as the true "Word of God" if one believes in a Christian or Judaic Religion! People who come on here and quote it as if it has the "authority" of TRUTH... show how small and limited their narrow minds ARE!

We can't get TWO people on the street to agree about politics.... but, we can find millions who believe in just ONE "exclusitory" religion?

[golfhobo]

haha i notice some of you people involved in the reading of obamas book as well in this forum oh for reality LOL

Haven't read either of them yet. What am I missing?

[mitchno1]

Haven't read either of them yet. What am I missing?

nothing i supose just be enjoying xmas booze like me i hope

[Windwalker]

nothing i supose just be enjoying xmas booze like me i hope

And, you have a very Happy New Year as well.

[mitchno1]

will be doing that as you should know and same to all you blokes have a good one