How well do you believe the Bible?

[Twilight Flyer]

The Bible is a largely fictional tome with some elements of truth. While there are certain elements which can be supported through the sciences, there were no talking snakes, talking / burning bushes, or talking donkeys.

And you know that how?

Consider the ramifications of believing that something written by hundreds of prophets (authors) over thousands of years is nothing more than an elaborate fictional work. That alone simply doesn’t fly.

However, more importantly is that you stating your belief that it is fiction is no different than a believer stating his belief that it is the word of God. However, a believer believes it to be the word of God primarily because the spirit has testified that it is true, while a non-believer does not have the same spirit testifying that it is not. Of course, you can argue that point if you like, but it does not change the fact that in the end, you have no more physical proof that it is false than a believer has physical proof that it is true.

That’s where faith comes in. One either has it, or one doesn’t. Eventually, everyone will find out if they were right or wrong.

[Windwalker]

The Bible is a largely fictional tome with some elements of truth. While there are certain elements which can be supported through the sciences, there were no talking snakes, talking / burning bushes, or talking donkeys.

And the people in Mexico can argue that there are no "Northern Lights". They don't exist. Yet, those of us that have been to the northern USA and Canada can tell that we have seen them many times. I have never seen the sun shine for more than 24 hours straight, but do I believe that there are places on this earth where that does happen every year? Yes. Just because I do not get to see it, does not mean it does not happen.

While it does have some truth to certain parts of it, and while there are some things to be gained from studying it, it was largely co-opted by man for the purpose of empowering the few to reign and rule over the masses.

Actually, even if you take GOD out of it (and you can do that. Really. It's done every day. ), it is still a reasonably accurate record of one segment of mankind's existence on this earth. If it were not, Archeology would not be using it to locate places to dig for artifacts.

The ancient city of Sodom was destroyed by fire and brimstone. Today, they've found the location and there is evidence of great heat. There is natural glass found in the sand. Know how much heat it takes to do that? It's also found at nuclear test sites. But, there were no nuclear weapons back in the days when the city was destroyed. Where did all that heat come from? And, how did one man know it was time to leave town?

Even if you take GOD out of it, there is still far more truth to it than you seem to give it credit for.

[Twilight Flyer]

Feels like a good time to resurrect this thread because the topic is extremely relevant today.

How many of you believers are watching what is happening today in relation to the prophecies regarding the last days in Revelations, Ezekiel, Daniel, etc.

On the natural front, have you ever seen such a run of large tremblers than we have seen in the past couple months. Haiti, Chile, Japan, Indonesia, Turkey, even LA got hit with a smaller 4.4 the other day.

Have you ever seen such wild and violent weather, nationwide, that we have experienced over the past few months? Sure, we have had some big storms, but I don’t remember a time when they were coming one right after another like they have this year.

On the political front, our government is ready to pass a bill with no vote, utterly circumventing the Constitution and the freedoms this country was founded on. It’s the biggest power grab this country has ever seen and firmly sets us in the realm of a dictatorship. I would challenge ANY liberal to support the passing of a bill that the people of this country are overwhelmingly against (over 70% at the last poll I saw), with no vote. You know that if it were a different issue and a different president, you would be beside yourself with rage. How you can watch this travesty unfold and still support your president and your government is absolutely beyond me.

Our government has turned against Israel, siding with her enemies in all things political. People can make of that what they will, but it will only lead to one thing. If we continue to turn our back on Israel (one of our country’s greatest allies), Israel will eventually tell us to bugger off and take care of things in their own way. They will take out Iran, plain and simple. Imanutjob came out again two days ago and again stated that Israel would be annihilated. Israel has gone on record stating they will not allow Iran to have nuclear weapons. Russia has gone on record stating they will back Iran. If Israel hits Iran, Russia will come south. In Ezekiel, that’s referred to as Gog of Magog and will be one of the biggest Biblical end-times prophecies to come to pass.

Now I already know that the non-believers are going to scoff at that and frankly, that’s your right. But it doesn’t change the path this country is on and the path the world is on. If things continue to happen the way they are happening on the world stage, those Biblical prophecies will happen because there is no other choices before the players in the game.

We are on the cusp of some of the greatest calamities – political and natural – that history has ever seen. Make of it what you will, but the smart money is on the inevitability of the wheels that are now in motion.

[matcat]

If things continue to happen the way they are happening on the world stage, those Biblical prophecies will happen because there is no other choices before the players in the game.

There is nothing that can be done to stop it, it is exactly as it is supposed to be.

[Twilight Flyer]

There is nothing that can be done to stop it, it is exactly as it is supposed to be.

Exactly.

However, non-believers will not see it that way, even though many will agree that we have come to a point where there is no other alternative. They will see it as an inevitability of the political and world stage and claim that there simply is no other way. Americans will revolt because of our desire to remain free. Israel will take out Iran because of their desire to not be annihilated. Russia will go against Israel because of their desire to support their ally. China will involve themselves (and their 200 million man army) in the conflict simply because it will be their opportunity to emerge on top.

All of this will happen because countries and citizens have set their courses and locked themselves in and a lot of non-believers will agree with it. However, ask them if they find it a little odd that all of this has been prophesied in a book several thousand years old that they do not believe in.

Crickets.

Can we change our course? Sure we can – people from the highest government officials to the lowest common peasant still have freedom to choose their actions and thus, the consequences (major and minor) of those actions. But will we change our course? Not likely. And if we do not, I wonder if the chorus of “we told you so” does much to change the hearts of man?

[GMAN]

Try as they may, non believers have NEVER been able to disprove the Bible. My Bible teacher in elementary school used to tell us that every time someone tried to disprove the Bible they wound up proving what was written as truth.

Whether you believe in God or not, we can see the prophesies of the Christian Bible as coming to pass. Things started to fall into place once Israel once again became a state in 1948. If we fast forward to today we can see the prophesies being revealed. I will paraphrase some things that I remember being mentioned as being signs of the last days.

-Israel becomes a nation (this generation will not pass)
-Wars and rumors of wars.
-Changes in climate. Unexplained and strange weather. (earthquakes, fires,
floods, severe storms, etc., )
-Men turning to men and women turning to women (homosexuality)
-Children disrespecting their parents.
-There are a number of other events that have and are taking place that are
mentioned in the prophesies.

The best that I can tell the United States is not mentioned in the Revelations. That tells me that for the final prophesies to come to pass that the U.S. must fall. The United States has been the largest economic force in the world with the strongest military might the world has seen. It is next to impossible for another military to destroy this country without destroying itself. For America to fall there needs to be an economic crisis of monumental proportions. Events need to be put in place to encourage Americans to trade their freedom for security. For decades our government has been chipping away at our freedoms. With 9/11 there was an introduction of a national police force and the patriot act which further eroded our freedoms.

If you look at what is happening to this country at this time in history, you need to wonder if this country is on the verge of falling. We have our first dictatorship with a president and congress who has decided to rule without thought to what the people want. In the past a president was known as a leader. This president wants to rule. No matter what a dictator calls himself, a dictator is still a dictator. We need to follow the money on their decisions. I don't believe this country can or will survive under any other system other than a representative republic. We don't live under a democracy, but a representative republic. The people are strongly against the policies of this administration. It is the only time that I can remember in my lifetime where a president and congress have conspired to work so diligently against the will of the people.

Events are being put in place. We need to do what we can to circumvent what these people are doing to our country. What they are doing is treasonous. Dictatorships of the past have all followed the same mantra. They pit one group against another. It is primarily the rich against the poor. Hitler, Stalin and others have all used the same tactics. They get to the youth at an early age so that they can brainwash them and rewrite history to reflect their view of the world. They get the cooperation of the media to suppress any opposition. Fortunately for us, we have some alternative media where we can get the truth. That is the only saving grace to our time in history.

You don't have to believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God, but if you read Revelations and Daniel you can get a pretty good idea of what is to come. You can't help but wonder how all these things could have been foretold thousands of years ago.

[Jackrabbit379]

I never knew this thread was here. I guess I've over-looked it. I just went through the thread, and to answer Windwalker's question... I believe in the Bible. I believe it is God's Holy word. I am a Christian. I accepted Christ as my Savior when I was 9 years old. I am Southern Baptist. Saying that, I will also tell you that I am not perfect. I (we) have a sinful nature. I say things that I shouldn't. I curse at times. I am short tempered, and there have been times that I have said or done things that I did without thinking.

A lot of people will say, 'the Bible was written by men'. True, but the prophets, the disciples, and writers were inspired of God. 2 Timothy 3:16 - All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;


I also believe that there is a reason why we have all these weather disasters. Some may say, "Would God really destroy these people, and countries, etc? Why would God do such a thing." I think about Revelation 2:4-5 - Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love. 5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent.
I reckon that applies to us, 2000 years later. I also think about the Israelites, when they made the golden calf, after they were rescued from Egypt.
Exodus 32:9-14 - "I have seen these people," the LORD said to Moses, "and they are a stiff-necked people. 10 Now leave me alone so that my anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them. Then I will make you into a great nation."
11 But Moses sought the favor of the LORD his God. "O LORD," he said, "why should your anger burn against your people, whom you brought out of Egypt with great power and a mighty hand? 12 Why should the Egyptians say, 'It was with evil intent that he brought them out, to kill them in the mountains and to wipe them off the face of the earth'? Turn from your fierce anger; relent and do not bring disaster on your people. 13 Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Israel, to whom you swore by your own self: 'I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and I will give your descendants all this land I promised them, and it will be their inheritance forever.' " 14 Then the LORD relented and did not bring on his people the disaster he had threatened.

As far as the politics goes, and where our country is going? I have no idea. I don't know what's going to happen. I can't keep up with it all. There are so many things that is trying to get passed it's unreal. I think, Congress, (or whoever is in charge of impeaching) should impeach Obama before he ruins this great nation. I'm sure I will get some flack for saying that, but I think the standards, all the great things this country was founded on is going out the window. I'm praying that God will keep this nation together, and keep it from falling apart.

[GMAN]

As far as the politics goes, and where our country is going? I have no idea. I don't know what's going to happen. I can't keep up with it all. There are so many things that is trying to get passed it's unreal. I think, Congress, (or whoever is in charge of impeaching) should impeach Obama before he ruins this great nation. I'm sure I will get some flack for saying that, but I think the standards, all the great things this country was founded on is going out the window. I'm praying that God will keep this nation together, and keep it from falling apart.

This country has largely turned it's back on God. We have murdered millions of babies in this country. We call it abortion, but it is killing an innocent life, nonetheless. We are taught in the Bible that unless we work we should not eat, but we have allowed the government to encourage non productive behavior where others we reward and feed those who are unwilling to take care of themselves or their families. We have allowed our government to dictate how and where we can worship. We can't even put a nativity scene in our yards or in a public park without the ACLU and the government getting involved. The constitution states that the government may not infringe on our right to worship, yet they do. The Bible calls homosexuality an abomination, but we now allow homosexuals to marry and hold positions of responsibility. Adultery and promiscuity is rampant and we seem to have an epidemic of pedophiles running loose. Many are associated with churches. Children no longer honor their parents and parents no longer discipline their children (spare the rod and spoil the child).

Prayer can change people and the hearts of men. It can change our country. I would not want to rely on congress to change things. They seem to be determined to destroy the foundation of this country. America is unlike any other country that has ever existed. God blessed this country for several centuries. There have been trials, but with God we came through and prospered. We have now turned our backs on God. God will not bless this country if we do not worship and put him first. I heard a minister mention once that he thought that God has taken his hand off America. I think that perhaps he was right.

This congress is not going to impeach Obama. They are all in bed together. It is about power and the move toward a one world government. The U.S. has stood in the way of this from happening. For things to move forward America will need to fall or become like much of Europe and many of the other industrialized nations with their dependence on government.

[Windwalker]

I never knew this thread was here. I guess I've over-looked it. I just went through the thread, and to answer Windwalker's question... I believe in the Bible. I believe it is God's Holy word. I am a Christian. I accepted Christ as my Savior when I was 9 years old. I am Southern Baptist. Saying that, I will also tell you that I am not perfect. I (we) have a sinful nature. I say things that I shouldn't. I curse at times. I am short tempered, and there have been times that I have said or done things that I did without thinking.

A lot of people will say, 'the Bible was written by men'. True, but the prophets, the disciples, and writers were inspired of God. 2 Timothy 3:16 - All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;


I also believe that there is a reason why we have all these weather disasters. Some may say, "Would God really destroy these people, and countries, etc? Why would God do such a thing." I think about Revelation 2:4-5 - Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love. 5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent.
I reckon that applies to us, 2000 years later. I also think about the Israelites, when they made the golden calf, after they were rescued from Egypt.
Exodus 32:9-14 - "I have seen these people," the LORD said to Moses, "and they are a stiff-necked people. 10 Now leave me alone so that my anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them. Then I will make you into a great nation."
11 But Moses sought the favor of the LORD his God. "O LORD," he said, "why should your anger burn against your people, whom you brought out of Egypt with great power and a mighty hand? 12 Why should the Egyptians say, 'It was with evil intent that he brought them out, to kill them in the mountains and to wipe them off the face of the earth'? Turn from your fierce anger; relent and do not bring disaster on your people. 13 Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Israel, to whom you swore by your own self: 'I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and I will give your descendants all this land I promised them, and it will be their inheritance forever.' " 14 Then the LORD relented and did not bring on his people the disaster he had threatened.

As far as the politics goes, and where our country is going? I have no idea. I don't know what's going to happen. I can't keep up with it all. There are so many things that is trying to get passed it's unreal. I think, Congress, (or whoever is in charge of impeaching) should impeach Obama before he ruins this great nation. I'm sure I will get some flack for saying that, but I think the standards, all the great things this country was founded on is going out the window. I'm praying that God will keep this nation together, and keep it from falling apart.

Welcome aboard. Be sure to join us in June of 09...

The whole point of the thread was not to discredit the Bible. Instead, it was to look at our own preception of it. Do we take it chapter and verse, word for word? Or do we understand that there may have been changes in the meanings of some parts, and even parts left out as things were translated from one language to another. We also have to look at the level of technology of the authors of the Bible, and the wording and explanations they had available to them, to explain what happened in and around their society. We all grew up with the picture of the waters of the Red Sea, a huge wall of water on either side of a pathway across the bottom of the sea. Not accurate. Archeology now has the evidence that it was not the Red Sea, but some 70 miles north at the Reed Sea. But, both bodies of water enjoyed exactly the same spelling in the language of the Hebrews at he time of Exodus.

The Biblical "Time Frame" is also out of step. According to Biblical experts, the Flood of Noah happened in November of 2345 BC. Yet, while archeology and geology both confirm that the flood certainly did happen, the physical evidence (clay deposits near the tops of mountains that could only have gotten there by flood waters.) states that it happened in 2845 BC. While the Bible would have us believe that the flood was universal and only Noah and his family survived the flood, a colony of Cro-Magnon survived into the 15th century AD on the Canary Islands. (Cro-Magnon reigned upon the earth from 40,000 BC to 8,000 BC in the rest of the world. Then, modern man, "our species" took over.) They were about slaughtered by the Spanish in the second half of the 15th century. So, the Flood of Noah could not have affected the entire world. And, if you think about it, a flood caused by rain does not do much to the sediment at the bottom of a lake. So, even raining for 40 days and 40 nights would not have brought the clay up to the tops of the mountains.

However, recently, science has uncovered evidence that a comet struck the earth some distance east of Madagascar. While they can not say just how large the comet was, computer models of a comet striking the Pacific one hundred miles west of San Francisco would produce enough heat to incinerate the city, and generate a tsunami that would destroy about one half of the earth's population. That would be for a comet about 3 miles in diameter. They come smaller, but they also come larger. It would make the one tsunami (this century) that killed thousands along the Asian Coastline look like a ripple on a pond.

The comet that struck the earth happened about 4800 years ago. Now, do the math. About 2845 BC that the clay deposits were left near the tops of mountains by a flood. Plus 2000 years AD. About 4800 years ago. Scientifically, that's close enough to be in the same church, same pew, same preacher, and the same service. Now, look at the location of the Canary Islands. They have an entire continent between them and the impact zone. All they got was weeks of rain. So, Noah and his family were not the only survivors. They were simply the only survivors in the "known world". It would also explain how a flood could cover mountain tops, when there is not enough water in the whole world to raise the ocean above the waist of the Statue of Liberty.

And, it does not end there. There are many more instances where science agrees, and even corrects the timing of the Bible, but this is enough to chew on for now.

[Slimland]

A simple point of debate, Slim....

As we discussed once (with my Dad's help,) the Apocrypha and other books were not "cannonized" because they simply didn't rise to the level of "certification" that the other books did.

This is NOT "putting GOD in a box." It is, if anything, putting MAN'S writings in a box.

ANYONE could have written anything they wanted, and claimed it was "inspired" or truthful.

The books that are included in the Holy Bible are the ones that could be "certified" as being true to gospel, and inspired by God (and mostly written by his apostles.) If the Catholics are good at ANYTHING.... it is research and authentication!

This does not mean that I wouldn't find something interesting in the Apocrypha.... IF I ever took the time to read it. I am only saying that I don't find that the "cannonized" version of the Bible necessarily puts GOD in a box.

I think those who rely on "other writings" are searching for something they can't FIND in the Bible. I have no problem with that. I like to read Plato and Socrates.

In general though, I agree with you that MAN can never understand the enormity of GOD.... IF there is such a being.

In truth, however.... I believe that ALL history is "revisionist." ALL writings are perspectively biased. ALL "theories" are just that.

Anyone who lives their life based on what they were TOLD to believe, has already surrendered FREE WILL.... and risks losing at least SOME part of their potential.

I know this thread is old, but I just seen it since I have been gone.

Yes we did talk of this Hobo, but I am remembering that in the new test, that I believe it was Peter, Jude, and a few of the others who quoted from the book of Enoch which is in the Apocrypha.
Example:

Jude 1

14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”

Thus in my opinion these men who decided to take away from the word because something didn't fit there test I guess didn't see this. But what do I know it is just my opinion.

Good to talk to ya again!

[geeshock]

The Bible is a largely fictional tome with some elements of truth. While there are certain elements which can be supported through the sciences, there were no talking snakes, talking / burning bushes, or talking donkeys.
While it does have some truth to certain parts of it, and while there are some things to be gained from studying it, it was largely co-opted by man for the purpose of empowering the few to reign and rule over the masses.

Remember, just becuse you have never seen it or proved it, doesn't provide proof positive it doesn't exist. Just meens you haven't proved it yet.

[Windwalker]

The Bible is a largely fictional tome with some elements of truth. While there are certain elements which can be supported through the sciences, there were no talking snakes, talking / burning bushes, or talking donkeys.
While it does have some truth to certain parts of it, and while there are some things to be gained from studying it, it was largely co-opted by man for the purpose of empowering the few to reign and rule over the masses.

It would be far more accurate if we had not written the wrong means into it, and made so many mistakes in translation from one language and civilization to the next. In some cases, the original text and meaning has, perhaps, been lost forever. It means it is not as accurate as the original text, but it is not wrong. What we read into it is the biggest flaw in it. Going back in time, there are many things that have been confirmed by science. And, it corrects the "time frame" and meanings.

[Slimland]

I know this is an old thread, but like Twilight said at one time, it is a good time to resurrect it... though that was paraphrased..

I was reading through this whole peace and something came to mind that I had read along time ago, and it just dawned on me. I may be wrong but lets see what y'all think on it... In verse 4 "4 For Gaza shall be forsaken,"
I wonder if I am correct didn't Israel give up GAZA?

After these passages Will be a post on GAZA from April the 4th

Zephaniah 2
A Call to Repentance
1 Gather yourselves together, yes, gather together,
O undesirable nation,
2 Before the decree is issued,
Or the day passes like chaff,
Before the LORD’s fierce anger comes upon you,
Before the day of the LORD’s anger comes upon you!
3 Seek the LORD, all you meek of the earth,
Who have upheld His justice.
Seek righteousness, seek humility.
It may be that you will be hidden
In the day of the LORD’s anger.
Judgment on Nations
4 For Gaza shall be forsaken,
And Ashkelon desolate;
They shall drive out Ashdod at noonday,
And Ekron shall be uprooted.
5 Woe to the inhabitants of the seacoast,
The nation of the Cherethites!
The word of the LORD is against you,
O Canaan, land of the Philistines:

“ I will destroy you;
So there shall be no inhabitant.”
6 The seacoast shall be pastures,
With shelters for shepherds and folds for flocks.
7 The coast shall be for the remnant of the house of Judah;
They shall feed their flocks there;
In the houses of Ashkelon they shall lie down at evening.
For the LORD their God will intervene for them,
And return their captives.
8 “ I have heard the reproach of Moab,
And the insults of the people of Ammon,
With which they have reproached My people,
And made arrogant threats against their borders.
9 Therefore, as I live,”
Says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel,

“ Surely Moab shall be like Sodom,
And the people of Ammon like Gomorrah—
Overrun with weeds and saltpits,
And a perpetual desolation.
The residue of My people shall plunder them,
And the remnant of My people shall possess them.”
10 This they shall have for their pride,
Because they have reproached and made arrogant threats
Against the people of the LORD of hosts.
11 The LORD will be awesome to them,
For He will reduce to nothing all the gods of the earth;
People shall worship Him,
Each one from his place,
Indeed all the shores of the nations.
12 “ You Ethiopians also,
You shall be slain by My sword.”
13 And He will stretch out His hand against the north,
Destroy Assyria,
And make Nineveh a desolation,
As dry as the wilderness.
14 The herds shall lie down in her midst,
Every beast of the nation.
Both the pelican and the bittern
Shall lodge on the capitals of her pillars;
Their voice shall sing in the windows;
Desolation shall be at the threshold;
For He will lay bare the cedar work.
15 This is the rejoicing city
That dwelt securely,
That said in her heart,

“ I am it, and there is none besides me.”
How has she become a desolation,
A place for beasts to lie down!
Everyone who passes by her
Shall hiss and shake his fist.



The Post

Gaza Strip

Updated: April 4, 2011

OVERVIEW

The Gaza Strip lies along the Mediterranean coast between Israel and Egypt. Gaza is roughly twice the size of Washington, D.C., but its population is considerably more than twice as large, giving it one of the highest densities in the world. The majority of its approximately 1.4 million residents are Palestinian refugees, many of whom have been living in refugee camps for decades; 80 percent were estimated to be living in poverty in mid-2007, a figure that has doubtless grown.

Gaza has remained largely isolated from the international community since it came under the control of the Palestinaian political faction Hamas, which has refused to accept the conditions set by the so-called quartet of Middle East peacemakers, including renouncing violence, recognizing Israel's right to exist and accepting previous signed agreements between Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization. In 2006, Hamas swept parliamentary elections in Gaza. Israel and Egypt imposed a strict economic embargo on the area, allowing in only basic supplies.

In December 2008, Hamas stepped up its firing of rockets and mortars into Israeli border towns, and Israel responded with a devastating air and ground campaign that left as many as 1,400 Palestinians dead by the time a cease-fire was unilaterally declared by both sides on Jan. 18, 2009. Much of the region's civil infrastructure and many homes were left in ruins during the three-week offensive that ended in January 2009. Thirteen Israelis were also killed.

A panel authorized in 2009 by the United Nations Human Rights Council to investigate Israel's actions said in its report that the destruction of civilian infrastructure in Gaza and the deaths of hundreds of noncombatants could only be understood as intentional. But in April 2011, the leader of the panel retracted the central and most explosive assertion of its report — that Israel intentionally killed Palestinian civilians there.

Two years after the war, Gaza is slowly mending but remains deeply troubled. Israel hoped that the blockade would break Hamas. Instead, Hamas is fully in charge, Israel is frustrated and another confrontation seems possible.

Gaza’s shops are full of Israeli food and clothes but most people can barely afford them. Construction projects — sewage treatment plants, schools — are getting started but far fewer than needed. The border with Egypt, once sealed, is open but few people cross because security clearance is hard to get. And rockets and mortar shells fly daily into Israel, as Israeli troops carry out brief raids.

Gazans still cannot cross into Israel. And the economy remains idle. A private sector that once employed 125,000 has barely 10,000 workers.



Now I dunno about Ashkelon or Ashdod since I just woke up for no reason and it is 2:40AM, I didn't feel like looking up that news.. But this thought had hit me when browsing through this thread..

[GMAN]

I never thought that I would see this nation turn it's back on Israel. The last few years we have witnesses the most unusual and extreme weather than I can recall during my lifetime. Major earthquakes, severe snow storms, record setting floods and a torrent of tornado's. I only remember one tornado what has hit my city during my life. A week or so ago, we saw perhaps as many as a dozen that hit within about a 45 mile radius. The interesting aspect of all these tornado's is that although there was considerable property damage, little life was lost compared to the damage. We now have locusts that have come to my area. We have wars and rumors of wars across the globe. The Middle East has been turned upside down with the people taking the lead for change in their countries. The United States has become almost bankrupt to to corruption and out of control spending. America is the strongest empire that has ever existed on this planet and is on the verge of collapse. All of these events were written about in the Revelations. I believe that we are in the final days leading up to the second coming of Christ and the rapture. The clock started ticking when Israel once again became a state in 1948. We have not fully understood what was meant when the Bible told us that "This generation will not pass" before Christ returns. I have thought that a generation was 20 years or so. I have since thought that in this context, the Bible is referring to the "Baby Boomers." The generation that was born after WWII is referred to as "Baby Boomers." I believe that Christ will return during my lifetime or that of my fellow baby boomers. I have heard some Biblical scholars suggest that the second coming will occur in 2012. Some have speculated between 2012 and 2018. According to the Bible we will not know the exact hour or day. We are given signs to look for so that we can prepare but will not know the exact time. These are interesting times in which to live. We are seeing great changes taking place throughout the world. I would not have expected this country would be so willing to turn to socialism. I expected this country to forever embrace democracy or a representative republic form of government. There are millions of our fellow citizens who seem to be encouraging a reliance on government rather than themselves and God. Perhaps it is really the turning away from God that has turned them toward government to fill the void. Government has become the God that fills all their needs. It is unbelievable the changes that I have seen during my time on this planet.

[Slimland]

I never thought that I would see this nation turn it's back on Israel. The last few years we have witnesses the most unusual and extreme weather than I can recall during my lifetime. Major earthquakes, severe snow storms, record setting floods and a torrent of tornado's. I only remember one tornado what has hit my city during my life. A week or so ago, we saw perhaps as many as a dozen that hit within about a 45 mile radius. The interesting aspect of all these tornado's is that although there was considerable property damage, little life was lost compared to the damage. We now have locusts that have come to my area. We have wars and rumors of wars across the globe. The Middle East has been turned upside down with the people taking the lead for change in their countries. The United States has become almost bankrupt to to corruption and out of control spending. America is the strongest empire that has ever existed on this planet and is on the verge of collapse. All of these events were written about in the Revelations. I believe that we are in the final days leading up to the second coming of Christ and the rapture. The clock started ticking when Israel once again became a state in 1948. We have not fully understood what was meant when the Bible told us that "This generation will not pass" before Christ returns. I have thought that a generation was 20 years or so. I have since thought that in this context, the Bible is referring to the "Baby Boomers." The generation that was born after WWII is referred to as "Baby Boomers." I believe that Christ will return during my lifetime or that of my fellow baby boomers. I have heard some Biblical scholars suggest that the second coming will occur in 2012. Some have speculated between 2012 and 2018. According to the Bible we will not know the exact hour or day. We are given signs to look for so that we can prepare but will not know the exact time. These are interesting times in which to live. We are seeing great changes taking place throughout the world. I would not have expected this country would be so willing to turn to socialism. I expected this country to forever embrace democracy or a representative republic form of government. There are millions of our fellow citizens who seem to be encouraging a reliance on government rather than themselves and God. Perhaps it is really the turning away from God that has turned them toward government to fill the void. Government has become the God that fills all their needs. It is unbelievable the changes that I have seen during my time on this planet.

Though we do not know the hour or the day, I personally believe that pertains to the Rapture.. The reason I say that is Because in Daniel it IMOP give the day that Christ returns at the second coming.

Daniel 12

1 “At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever.

4 “But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
5 Then I, Daniel, looked; and there stood two others, one on this riverbank and the other on that riverbank. 6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, “How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders be?”
7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished.
8 Although I heard, I did not understand. Then I said, “My lord, what shall be the end of these things?”
9 And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.
11 “And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.
13 “But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days.”


Right here gives a Time Table

11 “And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.

That from what I understand is durring the Tribulation, and from that day of the Sacrifice taken away the end result is Christ second Coming.. "IMOP" 1335 days according to the Hebrew Calendar that is 44 months and 3.7 years give or take because of the with an intercalary lunar month added seven times every nineteen years. Sound like the last half of the Tribulation to me, is when the Sacrifice is taken away.. This also coinsides with the Last week of Daniel in Chapter 9

24 “ Seventy weeks[a] are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of[b] sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.
25 “ Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street[c] shall be built again, and the wall,[d]
Even in troublesome times.
26 “ And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
7 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”

And here is the last week and a week is 7 years.
27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”

that is 3.5 years and the Hebrew Calendar can well be 3.7 years..
So that points again "IMOP" the second coming..

Therefor the Rapture I would think is the one were we know not the day nor the hour,, but we know the season..

Just a thought..

Oh and it coincides with Revelations of the Dragon, Anti Christ, being able to hurt those of God durring this time, for 42 months, 3.5 years, 1260 days..

[JewelsnTools]

I used to take the Bible literally, until I found out that it was more like a textbook with spiritual teaching stories, with a lot of astrology thrown in. Like Jacob's 12 sons representing the twelve signs of the zodiac! *and yes, I know about the 13th that was originally a part, and has recently been returned to the line up* And how Adam and Eve didn't "fall" into "sin"-- disincarnate spirits "fell" into bodies---in other words, the "body of death" Paul speaks of in the New Testament refers to this. And how the numbers in the bible should be reduced to one digit, like the 144,000 in revelations equals 9, and how the number 7 (or 70: 7+0+7) points to the 7 main power points of the human body...which is the book that has the 7 seals along the back of it... and that some folks believe that the 24 elders that fall down before the throne are the 2 pairs of 12 cranial nerves that come out of the brain? And the four beasts represent the four divisions of the zodiac? There's that pesky astrology, again!
Also how the book of ezekiel points to some seriously hokey stuff that can happen to spirits that live in physical bodies! Woooo.... Did you know that the words that were translated as "Kingdom of Heaven" would be better translated as "Royal Power of the Universe"-----and that it was a FEMININE phrase?? Or how Joseph's time in the pit, or the 3 Hebrew boys, or Gideon's army all have to do with spiritual battles each human being will face while in this valley of the shadow of death??? I know, I know...just Google it..
I still genuinely, ardently LOVE my Bible, having spent a great deal of time studying it over the years. Now that I know better how to read it for the real lessons, it has truly come to life! And the lessons of Karma, new birth, and the Ruach HaKodesh are actually in the New Testament, but they "re-worded" a whole bunch of stuff.
Oh, and when we're told to take up our cross and follow, that's a serious truth that carries the real meaning of the gospel. And what is the "good news"---that we didn't "fall", that we ARE born of Spirit, and that as soon as we recognize how wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked we are without our spiritual life in order and connected, we can begin to see what being kin the the Creator is like!! That's what the Teacher was telling them--religion and ritual observance is a mind prison, but spirituality is a deep, eternal truth that all human spirits need to discover for themselves.....instead of just blindly following the blind churchy pimps into a ditch. Like I did for so long..

[Windwalker]

I did pretty much the same until 15 years ago. It wasn't a matter of looking for truth, but more a matter of looking for accuracy. It wasn't a matter of turning away from it, but looking far more closely at it, and comparing it with archaeological finds. My own thinking is that it provides a better understanding of God and how He works.

Most recently, I've been looking for the name used for God prior to the flood of Noah. There were those that spoke with him and heard his words before that, but by what name did they know him? One interesting reference I did find was a God that appears as a bird. And, Christians have the Holy Spirit that appears as a dove. But, from the days of Adam and Eve, there were people that spoke to God, and heard His words. By what name did they know Him? I'm finding all sorts of "Myths?" but trying to sift through it all is interesting. There is a reference to 3 deities that would be the same as "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost". I can't seem to find the article now, but the names are different than we know today.

[JewelsnTools]

WW~
Like what you say about not having begun this as a sort of looking for "truth", but for accuracy. I can also understand what you mean by not seeking to turn away, but to look more closely at it...because those were the doors through which my own search began.
When I began to find out about the Nicean Council(s), the Egyptian Horus/Osiris, Sumerians, Ahura Mazda, Zoroaster, Brahma/Abraham, the Gilgamesh Epic, Christmas & Easter, Saturnalia, the almost frightening mis-translations found in the bible, and about how the letters of the Hebrew alphabet can be formed by a toroid, I cried for months. And felt very lost.
In finding my way back, I questioned EVERYTHING. I held onto the bible because it was the holy book that my culture upheld---not because I'd done a comparative search for spiritual truth and found it as the sole authority. It isn't. No "religious" book is. It's the difference between looking at a sheet of music and hearing an orchestra play.
I didn't wish to turn away, either. I turned my full focus(upon being basically "blackballed" out of the industry--which I've actually come to a place of gratitude for because of the truth I then had time to discover!!) onto looking into it further. Then, I started seeing not into, but through, to something else.
When I recognized that NOTHING I "knew" or felt familiar with was the result of my own careful, personal search for truth, I realized that I had to let go of presuppositions. Way back in time, heavily veiled by the mists of antiquity(.... gosh, I love how that sounds:P) something happened that resulted in us spirit beings running around in bodies. Some of these spirits think "Allah" is Spirit Father's name. Some, YHWH, or some other name. Some thought it was Ptah. Some, Shiva & Kali. The point is that whatever the Name of the Origin of all is, the ancient belief of having power over the entity of whom you know the name is rather pointless when it comes to the Creator... What's better is knowing what comes from being connected to that Creator!
ALL OF THE HATRED, FEAR, ALONENESS, AND SENSE OF POWERLESSNESS IS NOW GONE. I no longer "avoid" people of other religions like they're worthless or confused. If anything, I'd LOVE to actually read the Hindu, Buddhist, Taoist, Jewish, Islamic holy books now, too! Seems they all have some piece of the puzzle! The sting of death leaves when we realize that we've actually lived many lives...funerals just aren't the same for me, now. What a relief it was to discover that we have both Adam AND Eve within, as the animus and anima of our psyches--the loneliness left, then. That my "dream man" is the strong, action-oriented, powerful Magi that dwells in my own soul, along with my Eve-ness! And when I read about synchronicity, or realized what the Teacher meant by "As you have believed, be it unto you", I was totally empowered!! The game, as they say, has now completely changed!
When I stopped searching for Spirit somewhere "out there", or in any book or teaching or guru or tradition or belief or dogma, I found the Pearl of Great Price where It's always been....right where the Teacher said it was: within.
Good luck with finding the name you seek, WW. Once you find it, look behind it. There's something much greater in store for those who care to look!
Jewels

[Windwalker]

Good luck with finding the name you seek, WW. Once you find it, look behind it. There's something much greater in store for those who care to look!
Jewels

Actually, that's exactly what I have in mind. Once I know the name that was used to address GOD just prior and just after the flood, I expect to find the keys to many more doors. Yahweh didn't come along till the ancient Hebrews. But, that was also after the flood.

What got me started on that was finding out that GOD seems to have had a wife in ancient Hebrew. (Circa 800 BC) A female deity called Asherah. A little more digging brought up two more names. Astarte and Istar/Ishtar. That didn't answer anything, but it did raise many more questions. In ancient Hebrew, YAHWEH means "I am as I was", or "I am as I will be". Jehovah derived from that, so it's not actually His name. With all the Biblical patriarchs that heard His words and spoke with Him, surely, someone must have known His name. Among other places, I plan to take another "walk" through the "writings of gilgamesh" again.

[Slimland]

I used to take the Bible literally, until I found out that it was more like a textbook with spiritual teaching stories, with a lot of astrology thrown in. Like Jacob's 12 sons representing the twelve signs of the zodiac! *and yes, I know about the 13th that was originally a part, and has recently been returned to the line up* And how Adam and Eve didn't "fall" into "sin"-- disincarnate spirits "fell" into bodies---in other words, the "body of death" Paul speaks of in the New Testament refers to this. And how the numbers in the bible should be reduced to one digit, like the 144,000 in revelations equals 9, and how the number 7 (or 70: 7+0+7) points to the 7 main power points of the human body...which is the book that has the 7 seals along the back of it... and that some folks believe that the 24 elders that fall down before the throne are the 2 pairs of 12 cranial nerves that come out of the brain? And the four beasts represent the four divisions of the zodiac? There's that pesky astrology, again!
Also how the book of ezekiel points to some seriously hokey stuff that can happen to spirits that live in physical bodies! Woooo.... Did you know that the words that were translated as "Kingdom of Heaven" would be better translated as "Royal Power of the Universe"-----and that it was a FEMININE phrase?? Or how Joseph's time in the pit, or the 3 Hebrew boys, or Gideon's army all have to do with spiritual battles each human being will face while in this valley of the shadow of death??? I know, I know...just Google it..
I still genuinely, ardently LOVE my Bible, having spent a great deal of time studying it over the years. Now that I know better how to read it for the real lessons, it has truly come to life! And the lessons of Karma, new birth, and the Ruach HaKodesh are actually in the New Testament, but they "re-worded" a whole bunch of stuff.
Oh, and when we're told to take up our cross and follow, that's a serious truth that carries the real meaning of the gospel. And what is the "good news"---that we didn't "fall", that we ARE born of Spirit, and that as soon as we recognize how wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked we are without our spiritual life in order and connected, we can begin to see what being kin the the Creator is like!! That's what the Teacher was telling them--religion and ritual observance is a mind prison, but spirituality is a deep, eternal truth that all human spirits need to discover for themselves.....instead of just blindly following the blind churchy pimps into a ditch. Like I did for so long..

It's good to see someone not putting God in a box..