How well do you believe the Bible?

[golfhobo]

But, if we get Hobo in here, it will take her two weeks to read the answer.

HEY! I RESEMBLE that remark!

Just found this thread, and already it is too much to digest with the few beers left in my fridge!

Keep your pants on.... I'll get around to it as soon as I can! And yes.... it will probably cost you a few weeks to read my answers!

[Windwalker]

HEY! I RESEMBLE that remark!

Just found this thread, and already it is too much to digest with the few beers left in my fridge!

Keep your pants on.... I'll get around to it as soon as I can! And yes.... it will probably cost you a few weeks to read my answers!

Take your time. I'm headed out to Jersey, after a false start yesterday. Won't be back online till I get back. But I don't know if I'll have a week to read what you've written when I do get back.

In case I'm a bit late, HAPPY FATHER'S DAY to all the Dads out there.

Archeology says that Cro-magnon co-existed with Neanderthal for a couple of thousand years. While Neanderthal was about 5 foot, Cro-magnon was about 8 foot tall, more agile, and thought to be more intelligent.

Would there have been prejudice between the two?

And, the sons of GOD saw that the daughters of man were fair and took them for wives, all that they would...

Looking at human nature, Cro-magnon and Neanderthal might have been at war with each other. Cro-magnon would also have had superior weapons (or so it is believed by science) which would support a theory that they would have killed Neanderthal man, and taken Neanderthal woman for a wife. (Refer to the thread in "WOMEN IN TRUCKING" where I talked about the difference in hunting rabbits with a male or female dog) Doing so would follow right along with the nature of the male of the species.

And, they bore sons onto them...

Why does the Bible only list the ones it does? If all men lived to be that old, why are only a few mentioned? Why were these so notable? And, since Noah lived to be 800 years old, it would suggest that he was also a product of "The Sons of GOD" and "Daughters of Man". That would make us all a product of the two.

But, looking up the year of the flood, it does not match, even with the five hundred years difference between the Bible and science. Or, are there even more inaccuracies?

[Slimland]

Apart of me wants to get into this dicsussion, but the other part knows better.. I would just end up contradicting myself anyway. Right now my mind is still fighting that enime within. I don't even think I could talk in circles anymore. But I will keep in touch with this thread and if anything does compell me I will comment on it..
Thanks for the invite WindWalker.

Slimland

[marcel27208]

As a believer living in christ i wanna chime in but i dont think i should.............

[matcat]

Everyone is so afraid to chime in! The bible is such an interesting book to study. There is so much going on, and quite often a single verse can be taken in thousands of different ways to mean something very unique to each person. I found the BEST way to study the bible, was to use it as its own verification, if a verse says something, I look for a passage elsewhere to reinforce it. If I am uncertain of a meaning then I look at the original language, and build up this picture that it is trying to draw.

Quite honestly I am a scientific person by nature, very inquisitive, always looking for the way things work, always trying to understand it, so for me Christianity is a very tough religion to actually follow, though I believe in God, and I believe what that bible says, even though I don't always live by it. But at any rate, I have come to so many interesting revelations if you will from that book, things man would of never known at the time it was written! It just doesn't always make sense to us today because we have a different view of the world.

Take for example the book of revelation, a very interesting book, one of my favorites, and also one of the most difficult to study. There is a passage referring to a plaque of locusts, which will seak out and kill, here is a passage based on the New Living Translation

Revelation 9

The Fifth Trumpet Brings the First Terror

1 Then the fifth angel blew his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen to earth from the sky, and he was given the key to the shaft of the bottomless pit.[a] 2 When he opened it, smoke poured out as though from a huge furnace, and the sunlight and air turned dark from the smoke.
3 Then locusts came from the smoke and descended on the earth, and they were given power to sting like scorpions. 4 They were told not to harm the grass or plants or trees, but only the people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5 They were told not to kill them but to torture them for five months with pain like the pain of a scorpion sting. 6 In those days people will seek death but will not find it. They will long to die, but death will flee from them!

7 The locusts looked like horses prepared for battle. They had what looked like gold crowns on their heads, and their faces looked like human faces. 8 They had hair like women’s hair and teeth like the teeth of a lion. 9 They wore armor made of iron, and their wings roared like an army of chariots rushing into battle. 10 They had tails that stung like scorpions, and for five months they had the power to torment people. 11 Their king is the angel from the bottomless pit; his name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek, Apollyon—the Destroyer.

12 The first terror is past, but look, two more terrors are coming!

Lets look at a locust



Now think about what a locust looks like for a minute, and consider their description of it.

Now look at this picture and tell me what you think that passage is describing.


Tell me what image fits more in with the passage?

I am not saying a helicopter is the answer, but I am saying it makes much more sense then a locust. When it was written the person that wrote what he say in his vision had no clue what a helicopter was, but he knew what a locust was, and knew that a helicopter looks a lot like a locust, not to mention the things this creature in this passage is doing, how it sounds, etc.

Ohh by the way, helicopters can easily be used for chemical warfare, something that can be so horrible in effect to you, but not actually kill you.

[marcel27208]

The person who wrote revelations was john of patmos, who was a pastor and a poet. Just like the bible says this was a revelation as to what is to come, when i read revelations i truly am imaging huge locusts with human faces and armor. I think its VERY HARD for anyone even believers to wrap their mind around revelations. I try to take it word for word.

[marcel27208]

how well do i believe the bible...%100!!!

[matcat]

The person who wrote revelations was john of patmos, who was a pastor and a poet. Just like the bible says this was a revelation as to what is to come, when i read revelations i truly am imaging huge locusts with human faces and armor. I think its VERY HARD for anyone even believers to wrap their mind around revelations. I try to take it word for word.

Remember it is not known and believed to be a different John then the apostle John . Well you can take it word for word, but remember it is a vision of the future, one filled with things technologically far beyond what was understood at the time of its writing.

[Twilight Flyer]

OK, I have to chime in and I'll hit a couple of points. Yes, I had a few moments today and this topic was absolutely begging for a post from me. So here I am for another brief interlude.

Do I believe in the Bible? Absolutely 100%. Do I believe in evolution? Absolutely 100%.

Here's how I see it and it all keys on a "day" to God. I honestly don't understand how the literalists can tag God with a 24-hour day. Who's to say that a day to God isn't millions of years to us? If you stop trying to fit God into what we mortals can comprehend, then it all fits into place. If a day to God is millions of years to us, then it stands to reason that the evolution of millions of species over millions of years is all part of those seven "days" of creation...well, six when you factor out the Sabbath.

And the proof is there in countless fossil finds and our scientific abilities to now understand their meaning.

However, I draw the line at believing we evolved from chimps and apes. Here's why:

Do I believe Adam and Eve were the first mortal man and woman on earth? Yes I do, some 6,000 to 8,000 years ago, depending on how you view the timelines back then.

Do I believe in neanderthals, cro magnum man, and other "near" humans? Yes, I do, but I do not believe they are any relation to us today or Adam and Eve back then. I simply believe they are the natural evolutionary path of other simian type animals, nothing more. Maybe in another million years, the chimpanzees and apes of today would evolve into similar species.

Is it out of the question for something to evolve and be "close" to human? Hardly. Many animals today possess human traits, either inherent, evolved, or by mimicry. Take dolphins...a species that by all appearances and scientific study, possess a vocabulary and mastery of language that far outclasses our own. Dogs can be taught by humans to both understand us and to follow commands; parrots and other birds mimic and in many instances, understand human speech; chimps possess the ability to use tools, reason out problems, and live in communities. The list is endless. All of these are traits that humans possess, but none of those animals are human. So why is it not any different than with near humans of the past?

The fact is, science has proven that evolution is a part of our world's history. There is simply no refuting it - the evidence is there. Evolution is right. However, by the same token, there is also no evidence to disprove that God is behind all of this. There is no evidence to disprove His hand in all things. So by the very fact of not being able to disprove it, creation is right, too.

So why can't we learn about both in schools? I'll back off that topic immediately and move on to the next.

The Book of Revelations and other end-times prophecy.

I've made it a habit to study this for many, many years. And I'll tell you what I do know - that is that I know very little. I understand a lot of it and where things are going, but I don't "know" what it all means.

I think the Book of Revelations is absolutely the scariest book ever written, at least for a believer. But there's are many scriptures in a variety of different books in the Bible, that speak of the final days and all of them point to the same thing - it's going to be rough sailing for a while.

I personally believe we've been in the final days for a number of years now. I don't believe in the literal 7 years of tribulation, nor do I believe in the fantasy of a "rapture." It's a nice thought, sure, but it's a man-made term for a man-man belief. No, I believe we'll be here and the fact that we are here right now, bears that out.

Look around you. The plagues, the violence of the planet earth, the wars and rumors of wars...they are all here. The United States is in decline; God is being pushed aside for the words of man; the atrocities that man visits upon man get worse every day, everywhere you look, you shake your head in sadness at what you see. The stage is set...

...and the last act is about to begin. We're less than a heartbeat away from someone - be it a terrorist or a rogue nation - detonating a nuke against an enemy. Will that be Al Queda nuking one of our cities? Will it be Iran nuking Israel? Will it be North Korea nuking South Korea or Japan or Hawaii? Whatever the case, it's inevitable and probably no more than a year or two away at the most. And when that happens, the dam will break and then it will be a quick slide to the bottom and the short reign of the antichrist.

It's a tough world we live in. It's tough to be a believer and it's tough to be a non-believer, in my own personal opinion. I hold nothing against those that don't believe in God, though I honestly do sometimes wonder if there is anything to look forward to if you don't believe in God and His plan. Personally, as I watch the rapid deterioration of this world, I find that I take great comfort in knowing that it's all part of His plan and that whatever happens, the outcome is already decided. But others don't believe that and for me, that's OK. We all have our free will to believe what we will and to each his own.

But regardless of what you believe, no one can dispute the fact that we live in perilous and nearly disastrous times.

All the best everybody. Hopefully this gives a few of you something to chew on. And keep the discussion civil.

[marcel27208]

i dont think i could and dont believe what a scientist tells me and what the bible says, you have to choose one or the other. And if your a believer then its the bible, no if, ands, or buts, about it! At least i would like to think that, but there are so many people in this world nowadays who claim to be christian, who make no practice of even picking up a bible. They claim to be religious, and its about your relationship with god not religion. But, then again you can study the bible for years and years and still not be saved. Not implying anyone here, but i just keep going back to the original question of "how well do you believe the bible"

[Twilight Flyer]

As I said, I believe in the Bible 100% and study it quite a bit. But I also don't believe in restricting God and putting him into a man-made box. I am very comfortable with my beliefs and with my relationship with my Maker.

If, when I die, I find out that I am wrong about the whole evolution thing being a part of God's plan, then I'm wrong. It doesn't change my belief and faith in Him. But I hold fast to the belief that for everything there is a purpose and a reason and nothing goes beyond God. So it's practically impossible NOT to believe that evolution is all part of his plan, that His days are millions of years to us, that science is all part of the miracles that He has granted us.

[mommee]

nice to see you still lurking from the bat cave.

[matcat]

I have to disagree with evolution. Yes I agree it is possible and God could of used that to his means, but there are scientific and biblical oppositions to evolution.

A lot of scientists try to twist things to make it look like it is evolution when it is not. They take bits and pieces of scientific data, and puzzle it together to fit their hypothesis, bias opinion, and expectations. A true scientist operates outside of bias and preconceived notion. If one is taught the concept of evolution and that is what they believe, and they grow up to be scientists, they have preconceived notions and bias that will influence their judgement. Often taking a point that appears to align with the theory, but neglecting to look at the 10 other points that negate the possibility, just making up more theory and hypothesis as to why they appear to neglect it, but they BELIEVE it does not because of some obscured unproven theory to try to prove their opinion of it, even though reality is smacking them in the face otherwise .

[Twilight Flyer]

I have to disagree with evolution. Yes I agree it is possible and God could of used that to his means, but there are scientific and biblical oppositions to evolution.

For the evolution of man, yes. But not for the evolution of species.

Have you ever wondered why there is all kinds of fossil and DNA proof that certain every day creatures evolved from certain ancient creatures? But there is no corresponding evolutionary track from ancient “man” to us and scientists are always looking for that elusive “missing link?” It’s because there is no evolution of man – no missing link. If we date back to our biological roots of Adam and Eve, then our species is really only about 6000 to 8000 years old – a mere eye blink in a true evolutionary track.

I still maintain that evolution of species is all part of God’s plan, just as the non-evolution of “man” is also part of it. You simply cannot dismiss evolution as a sham because it’s right there in front of us. There absolutely HAS to be a reason for it. Remember, the Bible covers the last 6000 to 8000 years. It covers the entirety of civilization. But the earth is billions of years old – that’s been proven. The earth was populated by millions of species that have been extinct for millions and millions of years – that’s been proven. It stands to reason then, that the creation didn’t span 168 actual hours over 7 days…it spanned millions, even billions of years. What hasn’t been proven and never will, is that man evolved over that same millions of years.

So, by the same token, creationism cannot be dismissed either, as much as hard-core scientists and atheists would like to. With our technology and abilities these days, if there was a missing link to irrevocably link us to early man, we would have found it already. Period. The very fact that we have not, indicates that there is no evolutionary link between us and early man to be found. Oh scientists can say they’re close to discovering it and we’re a close enough match to early man to “assume” that it is the truth. But that’s like me saying the number 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 is close to the number 1, simply because they are both numbers.

So why is it a difficult concept for people to accept that God has both sides covered? I don’t ask that to be confrontational…I point it out because it bears out why I believe what I believe. If you restrict God to what our narrow mortal minds can comprehend, then it’s virtually impossible to grasp or even accept without understanding, things that God is capable of. I look at who God is…He is the creator of all things…He is never-ending. I believe that He is logical and that there is a reason behind everything. I believe He has a wonderful sense of humor, too. How else would you explain the platypus? And while I don’t claim to understand how evolution fits into things, I can at least grasp the idea that somehow, He has it all working. That enables me to take a guess at it, at least, which is all that I’ve done. Am I right? Only God knows. The rest of us will not know those answers until we pass beyond our mortal life. But in the meantime, it makes for interesting conversation.

I’m off to work. It’s the start of another glorious week…of 90+ degree temperatures, oppressive jungle-like humid heat, and tornados. Aaah, to live in the Midwest. I might have to hole up in the bat cave for a couple of months until fall.

[Windwalker]

However, I draw the line at believing we evolved from chimps and apes. Here's why:

Do I believe Adam and Eve were the first mortal man and woman on earth? Yes I do, some 6,000 to 8,000 years ago, depending on how you view the timelines back then.

Do I believe in neanderthals, cro magnum man, and other "near" humans? Yes, I do, but I do not believe they are any relation to us today or Adam and Eve back then. I simply believe they are the natural evolutionary path of other simian type animals, nothing more. Maybe in another million years, the chimpanzees and apes of today would evolve into similar species.

Is it out of the question for something to evolve and be "close" to human? Hardly. Many animals today possess human traits, either inherent, evolved, or by mimicry. Take dolphins...a species that by all appearances and scientific study, possess a vocabulary and mastery of language that far outclasses our own. Dogs can be taught by humans to both understand us and to follow commands; parrots and other birds mimic and in many instances, understand human speech; chimps possess the ability to use tools, reason out problems, and live in communities. The list is endless. All of these are traits that humans possess, but none of those animals are human. So why is it not any different than with near humans of the past?

The fact is, science has proven that evolution is a part of our world's history. There is simply no refuting it - the evidence is there. Evolution is right. However, by the same token, there is also no evidence to disprove that God is behind all of this. There is no evidence to disprove His hand in all things. So by the very fact of not being able to disprove it, creation is right, too.

I did read an article more than a year ago, that stated evidence has been found that "Hominids" did split off from Chimps. And, for more than a million years, there was "fraternizing" going on between the two species that produced, what appears to be, a sterile off-spring. rather like a horse and a donkey producing a mule which can not reproduce. I've been looking for that article, and have not found it yet. It did state that the link between human and ape actually HAS been found. and it seemed to have dated back to about 3 to 5 million years BC.
But, isn't it just a bit out of character for a Supreme Diety that is so adept at guiding natural forces of nature to impress his will on the earth and mankind in Exodus, to resort to actual creation? It would seem to be far more within his own nature to have been guiding the forces of nature all along. That would put it right back into the lap of evolution.

i dont think i could and dont believe what a scientist tells me and what the bible says, you have to choose one or the other. And if your a believer then its the bible, no if, ands, or buts, about it! At least i would like to think that, but there are so many people in this world nowadays who claim to be christian, who make no practice of even picking up a bible. They claim to be religious, and its about your relationship with god not religion. But, then again you can study the bible for years and years and still not be saved. Not implying anyone here, but i just keep going back to the original question of "how well do you believe the bible"

[/font]
Actually, because of my own background, Engineering, I know how science works, and the standards that determine scientific evidence. When science says that the earth is 550 million years old, I know the standards that determines that figure. Those standards do not lie. Yet, they do not fit with the "Inspired Word of GOD". WHY????
It is not possible for both to be correct as written. It's rather like the difference between a handshake and a "round-house hay-maker". Both involve body contact, but... So, where does the discrepancy come from? From all form of logic, both should match and coincide. Why don't they? Since I know science to be "exact", the Bible must be something less than completely accurate.
The Dead Sea Scrolls were written between 150 and 70 BC, but both the Jewish and Muslum Faiths existed long before that. That means they are not "original text", but copies of still earlier texts. Perhaps even a compilation of them. But, copying anything from one language to another introduces "human error". And, how much of that human error was influenced by "the collective wisdom" of the time? (Now, there's phrase I love to hate. It has not had a very good track record at all over the centuries)
In the final tally, both accounts must be equal (science and the Bible). You can not have two different universes existing in the same place, at the same time, with two different time frames. If that worked, we wouldn't have car accidents... Both vehicles could occupy the same space at the same time without any problem.
I find another interesting concept dating back to the Flood of Gilgamesh (of Noah's Ark Fame) in that scripture says that GOD became sorry he created man, and wished to destroy what he had created. It sounds a bit odd to me that a Diety that is "all knowing", and knows all about everything, including everything about the future, would have even bothered creating man if he knew he was going to be saddened and try to destroy everything he made. A Diety that is "perfect" doesn't make mistakes... If he does, it makes him something less than perfect, which is not possible.
However, as a means of "culling" his creations so that only one species is left... Now, that makes much more sense. Mankind is allowed to progress unhindered by competitors, and it would insure no "fraternization" which might bring up still another species. Or, is Homo Sapien even the end of it all?
The fact is that we do not have enough actual evidence of the past, and it is possible that the evidence we need may no longer exist. Not all fossiles from the past have survived the ravages of time. And, I believe we have only found a small percentage of them. Looking at the evolution of many of our mountains, they would have had many verticle rock faces and cliffs that were subject to collapse (just like "THE OLD MAN" in NH) and might have buried much of the evidence we need. Today, we could have a super highway running 150 feet over the top of it all. And, how much of it has been eroded away by the effects of water and wind? What we know so far is only a scratch on the surface.

[BlooMoose]

I don't know, WW...my perfect "creations" (my beautiful children) sometimes "sadden" me, too...but I have no regrets that I had them. If there is no real purpose for us being here, I can't imagine my Creator even bothering with all of the headache.

Adam and Eve had sons who went out of the garden and married. Who did they marry? How should I know! But, I wholeheartedly believe that "cave" man was not "man" as we know "man". I believe that Adam and Eve were the beginning of the "thinking" man...and therin lies the difference, to me. They understood laws of man and consequences. Before we could "think" and understand and make choices, we were just animals. I know that animals have loyalty and empathy (some of them)...but it is still just their nature. Once we could think...we could choose. We could choose Christ...which, I feel, is our entire reason for being. He wants to be surrounded (on the day of his choosing) by those who choose Him, too. Just as we can't make decisions for our children after a certain point, He does not impose His will on us. Some kids stay "lost", too. Isa.43:21 says that the people He formed for Himself were formed that they may proclaim His praise. Everyday, as I look around (and even during difficult times), I see more things that amaze me and I think..."Jesus Christ! Whoever made this sure knew what they were doing!" It may seem like a lifetime (full of good and bad things...) but, since I do believe in the Bible 100%...I think how much longer eternity will be. I just dont question anymore. I don't feel like I'm so heavenly that I'm of no earthly good...because I still do things I shouldn't and make bad decisions...after all, I am human! This is why I never tell anyone that they must do this or that or they will go to hell! As long as we have a breath left in us, we don't have to go to hell. God gave us a thinking mind and expects us to use it. Science is beautiful (I love science...if science were a man, I'd have probably already married it...at least once or twice..sigh). But science works differently for me...to me, it confirms that there is a God. Science cannot prove to me that there is no God.

MAN! I can't believe I was compelled (as Slimland put it) back into this! I will put in my disclaimer...the ideas and thoughts above in no way reflect those of anyone else here, nor is the one who thought them qualified to defend them....they are merely the musings of a bloo muse....(I would say Moose but I'm afraid dle might hit me!) LOL...Sorry...I couldn't help it...

[Windwalker]

I don't know, WW...my perfect "creations" (my beautiful children) sometimes "sadden" me, too...but I have no regrets that I had them. If there is no real purpose for us being here, I can't imagine my Creator even bothering with all of the headache.

I was repeating what has been said, that GOD was saddened and angered with the evil among mankind. (It would seem that a perfect being has a temper also.)

Adam and Eve had sons who went out of the garden and married. Who did they marry?

According to the first book of Adam (Apocrypha), Adam and Eve had two sons and two daughters. After Caine killed Able, they had another son, Seth, and Cain and Seth took their sisters as wives. Incest.

How should I know! But, I wholeheartedly believe that "cave" man was not "man" as we know "man".

Actually, when they were expelled from the Garden, Adam and Eve did live in a cave. The "Cave of Treasures". So, they would have been "Cave People".

I believe that Adam and Eve were the beginning of the "thinking" man...and therin lies the difference, to me. They understood laws of man and consequences. Before we could "think" and understand and make choices, we were just animals. I know that animals have loyalty and empathy (some of them)...but it is still just their nature. Once we could think...we could choose. We could choose Christ...which, I feel, is our entire reason for being. He wants to be surrounded (on the day of his choosing) by those who choose Him, too. Just as we can't make decisions for our children after a certain point, He does not impose His will on us. Some kids stay "lost", too. Isa.43:21 says that the people He formed for Himself were formed that they may proclaim His praise. Everyday, as I look around (and even during difficult times), I see more things that amaze me and I think..."Jesus Christ! Whoever made this sure knew what they were doing!" It may seem like a lifetime (full of good and bad things...) but, since I do believe in the Bible 100%...I think how much longer eternity will be. I just dont question anymore. I don't feel like I'm so heavenly that I'm of no earthly good...because I still do things I shouldn't and make bad decisions...after all, I am human! This is why I never tell anyone that they must do this or that or they will go to hell! As long as we have a breath left in us, we don't have to go to hell. God gave us a thinking mind and expects us to use it. Science is beautiful (I love science...if science were a man, I'd have probably already married it...at least once or twice..sigh). But science works differently for me...to me, it confirms that there is a God. Science cannot prove to me that there is no God.

MAN! I can't believe I was compelled (as Slimland put it) back into this! I will put in my disclaimer...the ideas and thoughts above in no way reflect those of anyone else here, nor is the one who thought them qualified to defend them....they are merely the musings of a bloo muse....(I would say Moose but I'm afraid dle might hit me!) LOL...Sorry...I couldn't help it...

Actually, much of what the Bible says about earliest man may be less than accurate. The reason for my guess is:

(First Book of Adam and Eve, pseudepigrapha, apocrypha, lost books) This book is simply a version of an account handed down by word of mouth, from generation to generation, linking the time that the first human life was created to the time when somebody finally decided to write it down. This particular version is the work of unknown Egyptians. The lack of historical allusion makes it difficult to precisely date the writing, however, using other pseudepigraphical works as a reference, it was probably written a few hundred years before the birth of Christ. Parts of this version are found in the Jewish Talmud, and the Islamic Koran, showing what a vital role it played in the original literature of human wisdom. The Egyptian author wrote in Arabic, but later were found written in Ethiopic.

Although, the general idea may remain very close to the original, word of mouth has a way of losing specific data. It's call "HUMAN MEMORY LAPSE". So, do I believe the Bible is correct? As correct as humanly possible. Is it accurate, word for word as some would have me believe? Absolutely not. For too long a time, and in too many ways, human error has been allowed to be introduced into it. After all, alzheimer's is not an invention of the twentieth century, because that's when it was identified.

[matcat]

There is a method of which books of antiquity are measured for accuracy, and it is a very detailed and lengthy research process, however no other book in history gets a high a score as a bible with this test.

The dead sea scrolls where a big success for Christian scientists, because it predates the earliest known copies of the old testament, by something like 400 years, and there is not a single difference between them other then the spelling of a few names. The ancient jews where excellent at record keeping, plus management of the holy scripture was considered of the utmost hollyness, and handled very carefully.

I'm sorry but I do not buy into the 'has changed over time' argument at all. Also of note not too long ago they found scrolls even older then the red sea scrolls, not as complete, but what they have still matches completely.

No where does it say they married their siblings either, the bible does not say, some believe others where created with adam and eve, yet others believe the gene pool was designed to allow for some incest without a break down of the DNA.

God did know his creation would mostly turn to evil, he knew it before he created us. He knew he would flood the world, and he knew he would scatter the people and give them unique languages, as a side note there is some interesting study in that aspect of when God separated the people and destroyed the tower of babel, if one is so inclined to study it. He knew man would accept and allow evil long before he made us, why? Without the choice of evil, there is no free will, period. Or free will has NOTHING to do with our ability to make day to day choices, it has to do with our ability to choose God, or to not choose God, very simple.

[Windwalker]

There is a method of which books of antiquity are measured for accuracy, and it is a very detailed and lengthy research process, however no other book in history gets a high a score as a bible with this test.

I admit, I am not familiar with this test.

The dead sea scrolls where a big success for Christian scientists, because it predates the earliest known copies of the old testament, by something like 400 years, and there is not a single difference between them other then the spelling of a few names. The ancient jews where excellent at record keeping, plus management of the holy scripture was considered of the utmost hollyness, and handled very carefully.

I'm sorry but I do not buy into the 'has changed over time' argument at all. Also of note not too long ago they found scrolls even older then the red sea scrolls, not as complete, but what they have still matches completely.

I was not meaning to imply that they were sloppy about it, or careless. But, from one language to another,

No where does it say they married their siblings either, the bible does not say, some believe others where created with adam and eve, yet others believe the gene pool was designed to allow for some incest without a break down of the DNA.

Forgotten Books of Eden: First Book of Adam and Eve

First Book of Adam and Eve


The First Book of Adam and Eve Prologue: The First Book of Adam and Eve details the life and times of Adam and Eve after they were expelled from the garden to the time that Cain kills his brother Abel. It tells of Adam and Eve's first dwelling - the Cave of Treasures; their trials and temptations; Satan's many apparitions to them; the birth of Cain, Abel, and their twin sisters; and Cain's love for his beautiful twin sister, Luluwa, whom Adam and Eve wished to join to Abel. This book is considered by many scholars to be part of the "Pseudepigrapha" (soo-duh-pig-ruh-fuh). The "Pseudepigrapha" is a collection of historical biblical works that are considered to be fiction. Because of that stigma, this book was not included in the compilation of the Holy Bible. This book is a written history of what happened in the days of Adam and Eve after they were cast out of the garden. Although considered to be pseudepigraphic by some, it carries significant meaning and insight into events of that time. It is doubtful that these writings could have survived all the many centuries if there were no substance to them.

God did know his creation would mostly turn to evil, he knew it before he created us. He knew he would flood the world, and he knew he would scatter the people and give them unique languages, as a side note there is some interesting study in that aspect of when God separated the people and destroyed the tower of babel, if oe is so inclined to study it. He knew man would accept and allow evil long before he made us, why? Without the choice of evil, there is no free will, period. Or free will has NOTHING to do with our ability to make day to day choices, it has to do with our ability to choose God, or to not choose God, very simple.

I'm sorry. I have found them in the past, the english translations that anyone could read, but spending more than an hour tonight, I have not found them. This is the only thing I've found tonight. However, it does talk about Cain and his sister, and in the translations I read last year, it also said that Seth married his other sister.

[Windwalker]

Second Book of Adam and Eve - Chapter I.
And Adam carried him, his tears streaming down his face; and went to the Cave of Treasures, where he laid him, and wound him up with sweet spices and myrrh.
5 And Adam and Eve continued by the burial of him in great grief a hundred and forty days. Abel was fifteen and a half years old, and Cain seventeen years and a half.
6 As for Cain, when the mourning for his brother was ended, he took his sister Luluwa and married her, without leave from his father and mother; for they could not keep him from her, by reason of their heavy heart.
7 He then went down to the bottom of the mountain, away from the garden, near to the place where he had killed his brother.
8 And in that place were many fruit trees and forest trees. His sister bare him children, who in their turn began to multiply by degrees until they filled that place.

Chapter VII.
Seth marries Aklia. Adam lives to see grand children and great - grand children.

WHEN our father Adam saw that Seth was of a perfect heart, he wished him to marry; lest the enemy should appear to him another time, and overcome him.
2 So Adam said to his son Seth, "I wish, 0 my son, that thou wed thy sister Aklia, Abel's sister, that she may bear thee children, who shall replenish the earth, according to God's promise to us.
3 "Be not afraid, 0 my son; there is no disgrace in it. I wish thee to marry, from fear lest the enemy overcome thee.'
4 Seth, however, did not wish to marry; but in obedience to his father and mother, he said not a word.
5 So Adam married him to Aklia. And he was fifteen years old.
6 But when he was twenty years of age, he begat a son, whom he called Enos; and then begat other children than him,
7 Then Enos grew up, married, and begat Cainan.
8 Cainan also grew up, married, and begat Mahalaleel.

So, you see... I did not make any of it up.

And, Bloo... If you follow the link in my previous post, you'll see that it refers to them living in caves.