Just wondering: How would you set up the HOS rules?

[LadyBlue]

I was just wondering if you were able to help create the new HOS rules or create them yourself, how would you want them set up? What would you change?

For example:

Keep the new 14 hour rule, but get rid of the 60/7 70/8 rule and the 34 hour rule entirely.

Get rid of them entirely.

12 hours of driving max with at least a one hour break or two half hour breaks during the driving time that doesn't count towards your driving time.

[Scoe]

14 hours of drive time max. in a 24 hour period with 10 hours off duty. Keep the 34 hour reset and require electronic recording of all carriers.

[AL_HUDSON]

The current rules have their merits but I would like to see the following...

12 hour duty period with "off-duty" time extentions allowed

10 hours of driving

allow "off-duty" to count with split logging

34 hour restart from the driver's home terminal only.

Define specific "supporting doccuments" in the regulations to give carriers at least a fighting chance during an audit.

[LadyBlue]

I have been thinking about them and talking about them with my husband as he is driving solo now. I think the smartest thing they could do is to make the rules simple.

1) Get rid of the 60/70 rule and get rid of the 14 hour rule.

2) Either get rid of the 34 hour restart rule, or turn it into a mandatory 72 hour home time/vacation a month.

3) Keep the 11 hour of driving a day. Or reduce it to 10 while allowing an extra hour of driving if the they are within an hour of their destination, and/or to find a truck stop if needed.

4) The truckers have to take a 9 consecutive hour break sometime with in the 24 hour day starting and stopping at midnight. It is up to the trucker when to stop.

Allow a split only if the trucker plans to sleep through midnight into the next day, but the split would need to equal 9 hours from the starting point to the stopping point. The trucker would still need to have a total of 9 hours within a 24 hour period.

That would give the trucker an extra hour either at the docks if needed and/or to be able to break up a long period of driving with a break -depending on their planning abilities and deadline the company gives them. It would also give the freedom to the truck driver to sleep when they need it instead of telling them they have to take a break at this time whether or not they are tired.

I think that would also make it much easier for the dot officers also. They would only have to check if you were driving only 11 hours, and to see if the driver has taken their break. The officers would not have to worry about the recap and other garbage.

[Ric]

I'd like them to institute a time & a half rule, like is applied to hourly workers. For every hour over 8 hours/day you drive, you are paid 50% more per mile!

So if you normally make 36 cents per mile as a solo driver and you drive for 10 hours one day, those two extra hours of driving are paid at 54 cents per mile!!!

[bluebeetle]

ric - if you think parking is a problem now, watch how horrible it comes when companies start mandating that drivers shut down after 8 hours.

With HOS regulations that happen, driver are going to get around them somehow. The new hours seem to have brought about the most positive for larger company drivers simply because it has created an increase in pay. (Doc - I know not enough)!

I still say that when you compensate for performance or productivity you will create people motivated by money and want to get as much miles in a day as they can. Drivers will continue push it to the limit.

What I have been noticing is there a lot more drivers losing their jobs now due to log violations then before. It is almost a complete zero tolerance for this and maybe this is the answer to get drivers to be more legal. By taking the stand that if a driver is terminated for log violations, then it is harder for them to get a new job might make them run legal. Of course I think doing away with the electronic log system would help here as some drivers get pinged for moving their trucks to a better parking spot after they have driven their 11 hours.

I would like to see a uniform amount that shippers/consignees are billed for detention time. This would reduce the overall amount of time a driver is a stuck waiting to be loaded or unloaded.

[Highwayman]

You all are making it too damn complicated!Make the logbook with only 2 lines: "On Duty" and "Off Duty" - because you are either working or you are not.

12 hours on, 12 hours off, breaks according to FLSA guidelines, enforced with OBRs. All "On Duty" hours must be paid according to FLSA.

[billbeau]

I agree with Highwayman but would dump the CPM pay and go to either a hourly rate or salary.

Being paid by the mile or by the load promotes cheating on ones log book and speeding.

I am now a local driver and get paid by the hour. I do the speed limit now. I dont give a rats ***** if the load is late the speed limit is 55 I go 55. Poor planning on the companies part does not constitute an emergency on my part.

I also agree with electronic log books.

[LadyBlue]

Highway man I do agree the simpler the better. 12 on and 12 off would only happen in a perfect world without anti-trucking groups.

[joee]

There is only one way to do it fair and right.
Every truck driver hiring on should have to register a 14hrs shift with his company that he will be working for them,say 6am to 8pm or what ever shift they and he decides on. This shift would have to be the same for the whole employment unless changed at the company with 1 week advanced notice. The driver should be able to work up to 6 days consistent like this and mandatory at least 1 off. This would eliminate all the dispatcher coercion towards drivers and you can guarantee if all companies had to run under set schedules of time they would change the setting around at shippers and receivers we drivers have to deal with daily!
But you can guarantee this system will never happen it would work to well and be to fair to the drivers. And the companies we run for would truly have to do there jobs.
This would eliminate all problems.

[Nighttrain71]

Tough question. Seems like no matter how one answers, someone else could spot a way that it will be abused. Add more hours? Dispatch will abuse that privilage. mandatory break periods? Those will be pencil whipped by a lot of drivers. Force the industry into 8 hour days like the rest of the blue collar world? A lot of drivers would starve to death. Listen to the oblivious members of PATT and forbid overnight driving? I don't even want to think about the parking problems and traffic jams that would cause. As for me, I like simple

Go back to ten on 8 off (Who cares if I spend 8 or ten hours parked at a truck stop, I'm not likely to sleep more than six. One wonders if this change wasn't lobbied for by the video game and vending indusrty.)

Dump the 14 hour rule. (If I spend 2 hours sitting on dock, sound asleep in the bunk, why is it counted against my driving day? And how are we improving safety by discoraging breaks?)

Keep the 34 hour rule (The rest of the world is considered fully rested after a weekend off, why aren't OTR drivers?)

Change the max hours to 10 per day (as opposed to 70 in 8 ) and institute a 13 day work rule (as many states have for hourly employees.) Simply put, If I can run ten in a day, that should be everyday. But mandate a day off at least once every two weeks.

[yoopr]

go back to the old 10/8

[Maveric]

My personal point of view (now keep in mind that I am not a driver, yet) is to keep the current HOS rules but take EVERYTHING that is considered ON DUTY-NOT DRIVING and make that OFF DUTY. That gives you pleanty of hours to get decent miles and decent rest, that has a realistic chance of getting approved through DOT and the buractic red tape BS. Some of the post folks have made are totall wishfull thinking and COULDN'T be implemnted for 10+ years as it would take restructuring the entire industry from the ground up.

[Nighttrain71]

My personal point of view (now keep in mind that I am not a driver, yet) is to keep the current HOS rules but take EVERYTHING that is considered ON DUTY-NOT DRIVING and make that OFF DUTY. That gives you pleanty of hours to get decent miles and decent rest, that has a realistic chance of getting approved through DOT and the buractic red tape BS. Some of the post folks have made are totall wishfull thinking and COULDN'T be implemnted for 10+ years as it would take restructuring the entire industry from the ground up.

Bear with me, I am merely playing devils advocate here. The truth is, you would never get that proposal through the FMCSA. The key purpose of the HOS rules is to cut down on drivers operating while fatigued / not alert. Now, it could be argued that an "on duty - not driving" activity such as fueling, attending a meeting or handling paperwork does not add to ones fatigue level. But, if we consider the fact that lumping 30,000 pounds of freight is also an "on duty - not driving" activity, then we must concede that some ODND activities do lead directly to fatigue. The only way we could possibly separate such things would be to create a very long and arduous list of activities that do and do not count, which is unlikely to make it through an sort of public debate.

The old HOS seemed to work rather well. But the old HOS changed. Why? Organizations like Parents Against Tired Truckers (PATT) lobbied hard and long for the change. There position being: truckers should be like everyone else, work 8 hours per day and only during daylight hours. Of course, that is ridiculous, but what else can be expected from a group of soccer moms that wouldn't know where to put the fuel nozzle on a semi tractor? Of course, the trucking industry (OOIDA, TCA, ATA etc.) had some different ideas about HOS. The new rules are an attempt at compromise. If the current mess of regulations is the best that could be hammered out, maybe it's best not to suggest any change at all.

[Maveric]

Well I have to agree with you there Nighttrain71, I would have swore that I had listed Lumping as the exception to that but I guess I didn't. And you are correct that the general (aka-non trucking) public has no clue what truckers have to do to make ends meat. Considering that a truck driver is held to a standard 10X that of a 4 wheeler, and has allot more training in the driving department.

[Nighttrain71]

As I said, I was only playing devils advocate. I've heard so many of the arguments against us that I can pretty much figure out what to expect next. I think that is what bugs me the most about the new HOS. It used to be that the Feds did their research, the industry argued there points and on we went. The new HOS is the first time that "citizens groups" (read: "woefully ignorant crybabies") got involved. It's hard enough for us to make a living, we don't need our work rules being advocated by outsiders with no concearn for us.

If it's any consolation, I do like your idea on it's face. Of course, I also like the idea of prohibitiing driver lumping in all of it's forms (except for chaining and tarping.) Then again, I wouldn't object to keeping the 14 hour rule, if it leads to more drop and hook (the only way to stop dock time from hurting us is to stop dock time.)

[Maveric]

Very true, the nice thing about the drop and hook and lumping issues that you mention is that, that can be done without any regulation. That is up to the trucking companies. If they stop offering it to their clients/customers the problem goes away and free's up the driver to do what he is paid to do, DRIVE.

[crow]

by "Highwayman"

You all are making it too damn complicated!

Hey, Highwayman....

Remember, you're dealing with bureaucrats and way too many drivers who've been institutionalized.

You got it exactly right! Good for you.

Randy

[kentucky orphan]

Just so it has been said, and in no way advocating a national "union".
Also not saying that the drivers point of view does not matter. You have to realize that the reason groups like PATT get their agendas recognized is that there are a lot of them and they are organized. I might add that they are this way because they don't work 14 to 18 hours a day bringing to market all of the things that they take for granted " will just show up". Until we drivers stop arguing about this and get together, what we think really doesn't count for much. However, should we ever get even 25% of the drivers out there to make the phone calls and write the letters then we can get something done. There are over 4 million of us. 25% is 1 million. Any way you cut it that's one heck of a constituency. People say that drivers can't change anything. Well I tell you we can. We just can't do it griping from the bleachers. If you want to effect change you have to get on the field. Get on the damn field.