Question about EOBR's

[Freedhardwoods]

I am gathering information for my letter to the fmcsa concerning mandatory eobr's. I have never used one and never want to. I would like to hear all possible ways that you can cheat while using them. We have a Canadian customer that buys one load per week. Occasionally they will order two loads and our company will have an outside carrier with eobr's take a load to the border where our driver takes the load across because they don't have passports. One driver knew he was about an hour short on his driving time of being able to make it to the meeting point. He told our driver that he gained the extra hour by stopping several times for 5 minutes which let him gain about 10 minutes driving time at every stop. Can anyone better explain how he did that as well as tell about other tricks that help you gain time?

[Orangetxguy]

I am gathering information for my letter to the fmcsa concerning mandatory eobr's. I have never used one and never want to. I would like to hear all possible ways that you can cheat while using them. We have a Canadian customer that buys one load per week. Occasionally they will order two loads and our company will have an outside carrier with eobr's take a load to the border where our driver takes the load across because they don't have passports. One driver knew he was about an hour short on his driving time of being able to make it to the meeting point. He told our driver that he gained the extra hour by stopping several times for 5 minutes which let him gain about 10 minutes driving time at every stop. Can anyone better explain how he did that as well as tell about other tricks that help you gain time?

I've been on "E-Log" on Qualcomm for just over a year, and not once in the last year have I been able to squeeze out an extra hour of driving time. Qualcomm does not show driving time if you keep your speed down under 5mph and travel less than 7/10th of a mile, but once you start driving, any driving you might have done at a truckstop or inside a plant or warehouse complex is automaticly deducted from tyour driving time...which is a pain in the *****.

The best thing I like about E-Log.......cops do not question if you are legal or not, when you hand them the panel. They hand it right back without looking...........unless of course you have a little red light blinking for them to see!!

[MichiganDriver]

I've been on "E-Log" on Qualcomm for just over a year, and not once in the last year have I been able to squeeze out an extra hour of driving time. Qualcomm does not show driving time if you keep your speed down under 5mph and travel less than 7/10th of a mile, but once you start driving, any driving you might have done at a truckstop or inside a plant or warehouse complex is automaticly deducted from tyour driving time...which is a pain in the *****.

The best thing I like about E-Log.......cops do not question if you are legal or not, when you hand them the panel. They hand it right back without looking...........unless of course you have a little red light blinking for them to see!!

The system doesn't round off your times? As I understand it with paper logs if I stop at 12:05 I should log it as 12:00 and if I resume driving at 12:10 I should log it as 12:15. That would give me 10 minutes "free" driving time.

[Freedhardwoods]

The system doesn't round off your times? As I understand it with paper logs if I stop at 12:05 I should log it as 12:00 and if I resume driving at 12:10 I should log it as 12:15. That would give me 10 minutes "free" driving time.

That is what I assumed he was doing, but I wanted to hear it from someone who is actually using an e-log. The driver said what he was doing would get him through a roadside inspection, but not an in-house audit. I didn't talk to him myself. I'm not sure if he knows that, or just thinks that.

I've been on "E-Log" on Qualcomm for just over a year, and not once in the last year have I been able to squeeze out an extra hour of driving time. Qualcomm does not show driving time if you keep your speed down under 5mph and travel less than 7/10th of a mile, but once you start driving, any driving you might have done at a truckstop or inside a plant or warehouse complex is automaticly deducted from tyour driving time...which is a pain in the *****.

The best thing I like about E-Log.......cops do not question if you are legal or not, when you hand them the panel. They hand it right back without looking...........unless of course you have a little red light blinking for them to see!!

If you would, explain that a little more. Does it accumulate 4 minutes here and 6 minutes there and add it as exact minutes, or does it do any kind of rounding?





Lots of people say "They don't read those letters" or "You are wasting your time". Mark Reddig on Landline Now (OOIDA's radio show) said that the fmcsa is required to read every comment that is sent to them and encouraged people to send in their comments. I have been a member of OOIDA for 17 or 18 years. Many of the members, including me, actually do something about the problems we face besides just whine about it. That is why we have so much influence.

I don't expect to point out something about cheating that they don't know, but as Mark and others have said, if you have facts to back up what you are saying, your letter can make a difference. I am doing research before I even start writing my comment. I did my research before I wrote my comment about the rule changes, which is why several local companies took copies of my letter for their employees and drivers to sign and and send in. People that do nothing but rant get little attention from anyone.

[Orangetxguy]

The system doesn't round off your times? As I understand it with paper logs if I stop at 12:05 I should log it as 12:00 and if I resume driving at 12:10 I should log it as 12:15. That would give me 10 minutes "free" driving time.

Well......I know that the QC I use logs everything that the truck does, the way it is done. If you stop for 5 minutes....it logs 5 minutes. You have to realize that the paper logs were made to show quarter hours years before an E-log was every thought up. On a paper log you can quite easily "give" yourself those extra minutes......but....you have to do a lot of stopping to gain 60 minutes of extra drive time.....so just what exactly could you be saving as far as time goes?

[Orangetxguy]

That is what I assumed he was doing, but I wanted to hear it from someone who is actually using an e-log. The driver said what he was doing would get him through a roadside inspection, but not an in-house audit. I didn't talk to him myself. I'm not sure if he knows that, or just thinks that.



If you would, explain that a little more. Does it accumulate 4 minutes here and 6 minutes there and add it as exact minutes, or does it do any kind of rounding?





Lots of people say "They don't read those letters" or "You are wasting your time". Mark Reddig on Landline Now (OOIDA's radio show) said that the fmcsa is required to read every comment that is sent to them and encouraged people to send in their comments. I have been a member of OOIDA for 17 or 18 years. Many of the members, including me, actually do something about the problems we face besides just whine about it. That is why we have so much influence.

I don't expect to point out something about cheating that they don't know, but as Mark and others have said, if you have facts to back up what you are saying, your letter can make a difference. I am doing research before I even start writing my comment. I did my research before I wrote my comment about the rule changes, which is why several local companies took copies of my letter for their employees and drivers to sign and and send in. People that do nothing but rant get little attention from anyone.

E-log logs every thing done over 5 mph, exactly as it is done. It also snags any driving time that was done under 5mph, off of your "11 hour" drive time. So.....while you may be able to move a truck around a lot or facility without showing movement of the truck (under 7/10ths of a mile), if you do not get a full 8 hour sleeper berth period in, or a full 10 hour break in, before driving again, E-log takes that "lot movement" off your driving time, without showing that you physically moved the truck.

One thing to also know. If you move the truck while logged in the sleeper berth, the E-log can change the color of the graph line, from blue or brown to red or black. It might just place a dot on the graph....but that dot is a different color than the rest of the line.....and an attentive officer can catch that.

One other thing it does do, is record engine idle time.

DOT officers know all of this.

[Freedhardwoods]

One thing to also know. If you move the truck while logged in the sleeper berth, the E-log can change the color of the graph line, from blue or brown to red or black. It might just place a dot on the graph....but that dot is a different color than the rest of the line.....and an attentive officer can catch that.

One other thing it does do, is record engine idle time.

DOT officers know all of this.

Does that mean a dot cop can write you a ticket for a false log if you move while logged as sleeper berth or for idling in a non-idle state?

[Freedhardwoods]

For me, it is all about your individual rights. That is OOIDA's main concern also. I always have and always will say the government is sticking their nose where it doesn't belong in this and many other areas. As long as I or anyone else is driving safely, they should just leave us alone. Many companies have gone to EOBR's to keep the government off their back, not because of safety problems. It is a compliance tool, not a safety tool. There are many drivers driving tired instead of resting when they need to just to stay compliant.

I talked to the manager of a 100 truck company nearby that told me exactly that. They have had a very good safety record all along. The only reason they went to EOBR's was to avoid fines if they got audited. He also said it made a very significant drop in their profits when they switched because they couldn't haul near as many loads as before. I spoke with one of their drivers that has been there several years without any tickets. He said his personal income dropped 30% when they switched.

As with everything else concerning the government, they will probably get away with it because most people just sit back and do nothing but whine about it.

Someone will figure out a way to change the records without leaving tracks. It would be illegal, but since when does that stop anyone from doing anything?

[MichiganDriver]

As a guy who does paper logs I do use the grab 10 minutes driving time technique on occasion but a couple of things. First of all, they wrote the rules, not me, and if I follow the rules to the letter and round off, I'm doing exactly what they want me to do. Secondly, grabbing 10 minutes here and there with that technique does mean taking breaks more often. Short little 5 minutes breaks, but breaks nonetheless. I'll stretch my legs or make some coffee, something that gets me out of the drivers seat. More breaks = more alertness for a longer period of time.

[GMAN]

Has anyone noticed that more people are becoming fearful of our government? I have noticed a trend for at least the last couple of years where as the government pushes for more regulations and laws to control the people that more are becoming fearful of the government that is supposed to protect our rights.

[Freedhardwoods]

Has anyone noticed that more people are becoming fearful of our government? I have noticed a trend for at least the last couple of years where as the government pushes for more regulations and laws to control the people that more are becoming fearful of the government that is supposed to protect our rights.

I would clarify that by saying that Americans are fearful of big government and the people that are making it bigger. They are getting a a lot bolder about taking away our rights. They shoved obama-care down our throats when the majority of Americans were and still are against it. Hopefully we will throw it right back in their face and throw a lot more of those bums out next year.

[Orangetxguy]

Does that mean a dot cop can write you a ticket for a false log if you move while logged as sleeper berth or for idling in a non-idle state?

If a DOT officer wanted to nit pick, yes they could write you for log falsification for moving the truck while in sleeper berth. After all.....if you are logged in the sleeper....you shouldn't be moving the truck. If someone is going to get upset, it will be your safety department.

No....they can't write you for idling in a "no idle" state. If the Fed's cared whether or not the truck idled, they would not have a regulation governing your heating and a/c system.....which by federal law must work properly to protect the health of the driver(s).

[Malaki86]

No....they can't write you for idling in a "no idle" state. If the Fed's cared whether or not the truck idled, they would not have a regulation governing your heating and a/c system.....which by federal law must work properly to protect the health of the driver(s).

Just as long as you're not sleeping, that is. Apparently our health doesn't matter when we're supposed to be getting our mandated sleeper time.

[Fozzy]

For me, it is all about your individual rights. That is OOIDA's main concern also.

The right to break the law doesn't exist.

I always have and always will say the government is sticking their nose where it doesn't belong in this and many other areas. As long as I or anyone else is driving safely, they should just leave us alone.

The fact is that the industry got into the EOBR to do several things, getting rid of the hassles of the whole log department is just one of them. Limiting the liabilities of having one of their drivers involved in a incident whether their fault or not when the driver is not supposed to be driving is another. When used in conjunction with other software, it allows the trucking company to bill for loads as soon as the BOL are scanned into a computer.

Many companies have gone to EOBR's to keep the government off their back, not because of safety problems. It is a compliance tool, not a safety tool. There are many drivers driving tired instead of resting when they need to just to stay compliant.

It's also a profit and legal protection tool..

I talked to the manager of a 100 truck company nearby that told me exactly that. They have had a very good safety record all along. The only reason they went to EOBR's was to avoid fines if they got audited.

This is a bad thing to you?

He also said it made a very significant drop in their profits when they switched because they couldn't haul near as many loads as before. I spoke with one of their drivers that has been there several years without any tickets. He said his personal income dropped 30% when they switched.

I think both of them are all wet.. again, there is no applied freebie to make more money because the work is being done illegally. The real problem is when something goes wrong.. not when getting caught doing something right.

As with everything else concerning the government, they will probably get away with it because most people just sit back and do nothing but whine about it.

And there are a lot of people who were reticent to use the systems and even hostile to them once they use the electronic systems would never choose to go back to the old paper systems. The electronic systems work both ways, you can say that they keep you from making extra money bu running illegally, but it also protects the drivers from the companies who require the drivers to run illegally.. If a company cannot survive unless their employees break the law.. why should they be in business in the first place?

Someone will figure out a way to change the records without leaving tracks. It would be illegal, but since when does that stop anyone from doing anything?

I'm well versed in the operation of the GPS based electronic systems on both ends.. It's impossible to remove yourself or the truck from the planet. Any disappearing acts are easily seen.

[Freedhardwoods]

The right to break the law doesn't exist.

I guess you can say that because you have never made a phone call while driving, hauled an overweight load, drove your truck when you knew something was broke, or broke the speed limit.

The government doesn't have the right to make laws that take our rights away from us. That is what the Constitution and the Bill Of Rights is all about.

The fact is that the industry got into the EOBR to do several things, getting rid of the hassles of the whole log department is just one of them. Limiting the liabilities of having one of their drivers involved in a incident whether their fault or not when the driver is not supposed to be driving is another. When used in conjunction with other software, it allows the trucking company to bill for loads as soon as the BOL are scanned into a computer.

It's also a profit and legal protection tool..

If a company wants to use it, that's fine. That has nothing to do with the government forcing people to use it.

This is a bad thing to you?

Yes, when the fines you are trying to avoid are caused by the government meddling where they shouldn't.

I think both of them are all wet.. again, there is no applied freebie to make more money because the work is being done illegally. The real problem is when something goes wrong.. not when getting caught doing something right.

I have talked to dozens of their drivers since I started driving in 1978. One driver that worked there a couple years is a friend of mine that I have known for over 30 years. Their safety guy for the last 5 or 6 years is a retired state policeman that I have known since I was a teenager. I don't care what you think.

And there are a lot of people who were reticent to use the systems and even hostile to them once they use the electronic systems would never choose to go back to the old paper systems. The electronic systems work both ways, you can say that they keep you from making extra money bu running illegally, but it also protects the drivers from the companies who require the drivers to run illegally.. If a company cannot survive unless their employees break the law.. why should they be in business in the first place?

The problem is government interference. It has nothing to do with suviving. The government doesn't need to stick their nose in just because a driver is too lazy take care of himself. I have quit places that I didn't like, they can too.

I'm well versed in the operation of the GPS based electronic systems on both ends.. It's impossible to remove yourself or the truck from the planet. Any disappearing acts are easily seen.

I wouldn't say I am well versed, but I do know how to kill the gps signal on a qualcom when a company tries to use it against me. I was an O/O then, and I was not going to let them tell me how to drive my truck.


If you like something, fine, just don't try to cram it down my throat.

[Fozzy]

Wow.. the bill of rights and the Constitution! Well yankee doodley doo to you.. Allowing drivers and companies to decide what rules and regulations that follow instantly makes the highways safer.. (sarcasm off).

[Freedhardwoods]

Wow.. the bill of rights and the Constitution! Well yankee doodley doo to you.. Allowing drivers and companies to decide what rules and regulations that follow instantly makes the highways safer.. (sarcasm off).

You are being sarcastic about the very solution that would help keep our highways safe. For a long time I have been for some type of exemption card that a driver could earn by having 5 or so years of safe driving. Any ticket would cause you to have it suspended or revoked. If a driver would have the determination to drive safely to earn it, he would continue to do so to keep it.

As far as scoffing at the Constitution;

[Fozzy]

As far as scoffing at the Constitution;

I wasn't scoffing at the Constitution, I was scoffing at you for minimizing it and using it as a chamberpot to further some half-witted position. You remind me a lot of Larry Flint and the Westboro people.. you have that right to speak as they do.. you just lack the personal responsibility to use the rights guaranteed to you for what they were actually meant for.. I don't waste my time with cocksure idiots anymore.. good luck with those windmills..

[Freedhardwoods]

I wasn't scoffing at the Constitution, I was scoffing at you for minimizing it and using it as a chamberpot to further some half-witted position. You remind me a lot of Larry Flint and the Westboro people.. you have that right to speak as they do.. you just lack the personal responsibility to use the rights guaranteed to you for what they were actually meant for.. I don't waste my time with cocksure idiots anymore.. good luck with those windmills..

For you to think I am misusing the Constitution makes it appear that you want to pick and choose who gets rights.. I don't know much about Larry Flint, but I say the Supreme court got it wrong about the Westboro people. They do not have the right to abuse other peoples rights. My boy very nearly came home in a box. I would not just stand by while they abuse my family.

I hold the same basic position as OOIDA. If you want to call the position of tens of thousands of drivers half-witted that is your right. I spoke with them before sending in my comment on the hours of service. I will probably talk to them before i send in my comment about eobr's.

If you beleive that someone lacks personal responsibility for working to keep this country the way its founders wanted it to stay, that is your right also. This eobr situation is just a minor thing compared to the many other challenges our country is facing.

There are far too many people in positions of power that are trying to twist the constitution to serve their purpose. It is NOT a living document. The founders wrote it so that no matter how society changed, it could still guide the country down the path that would keep our country great.

As far as the exemption card I spoke of, or any system that would encourage safety, I know it will never be considered until the people in charge are more concerned with safety than control.

[Orangetxguy]

You are being sarcastic about the very solution that would help keep our highways safe. For a long time I have been for some type of exemption card that a driver could earn by having 5 or so years of safe driving. Any ticket would cause you to have it suspended or revoked. If a driver would have the determination to drive safely to earn it, he would continue to do so to keep it.

As far as scoffing at the Constitution;

See.......Now this is where I disagree with you. There are plenty of trucking companies out there, that would abuse the hell out of something like what I think you are suggesting. An "exemption" that would allow a driver to drive, just because said driver felt it was "safe" to drive. There have always been "Cowboys" in this industry. Those "Cowboys" are why this industry has the reputation that it currently enjoys.

I saw where you say that you started driving in 1978. So............given your attitude on this subject....I can only assume you are one of those "Cowboys" that feel driving 20 hours of a 24 hour day is perfectly safe...........just because your eyes are open.

I started driving in 1979...."Professionally". I drove my first truck in 1973. I have seen plenty of people killed over the years. Not just by 18-wheelers...but by all modes of highway transportation. I think trading 1 hour of drive time for one less hour of the work day...was a fair trade (remember....10 and 15 became 11 and 14??)

I don't think someone saying "I am safe because I can handle it" is safe. Not in anyway shape or form. There have been drivers, that I have known over the years, whom should not have been allowed to drive after 8 hours.......let alone 10. There have been plenty also, whom should have never been allowed behind the wheel of a truck. When I voiced my opinion of some of those drivers........I was called bigoted and "churlish".


Having EOBR's on trucks...while it may invade the privacy of the driver, when it comes to seeing that the driver is comitting an illegal act.....that type of driver is exactly why all these "Anti-truck" groups are getting their way....Those drivers and their employers.

I am an "Owner Operator" and I like the Qualcomm. The Qualcomm backed me up several times over the last 20 months. When a manager and a dispatcher tried to say I didn't inform them of my HOS limitations (a load that was forced on me, even though I had informed them, via Qualcomm, that I did not have HOS to make the delivery, was delayed while I did a reset 200 miles from the receiving customer)....it was all right there on the Qualcomm. When I got shafted on a very high revenue load....it was all right there on the Qualcomm...and I got the money I was shafted out of....once in 2009, and 4 times in 2010. A total sum of $10,800 was paid to me, based on the information that the Qualcomm contained (the company paid me 50% of the linehaul on those 5 loads, that I did not haul).
It comes in handy when dispatchers are stupid. When managers are stupid. If the driver is stupid as well....to bad for the driver. The driver knows that the EOBR is there. Some folks have to be forced to "Play safe". And that is to bad.

Giving people a free hand to "Be Stupid".............just isn't a good idea. Bad drivers have affected us all for years.........................and it continues.