Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 45

Thread: CSA 2010...all drivers need to see this

  1. #1
    LOAD IT is offline Senior Board Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    726

    Default CSA 2010...all drivers need to see this

    Justruckin
    Board Regular Join Date: Dec 2006
    Location: SE Michigan
    Posts: 232


    CSA 2010, you guys need to see this...

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I have been looking at these new regs coming down, and they do not look good.

    I would start here, there are interviews with a few companies and info on how you as a driver will be scored, yes you. Interviews within the Industry on the CSA 2010 FMCSA Mandate

    This is some very scary stuff, and will cost quite a few their CDL and or businesses.

    Start on the left side bar and work your way down, pay particular attention to how you as a driver will be scored. And your scoring will start in 2007, not 2010. CSA 2010 FMCSA New Carrier Rating System Measured by 7 Behavior Analysis & Safety Improvement Categories

    Read the above and start asking questions. It may just save your job. This looks very serious and not to be taken lightly. I think I would rather have a black box in my truck, and I am squeaky clean but I can see the potential for some serious abuse here to both drivers and carriers. No one will escape.

    Thanks Justruckin

  2.  
  3. #2
    Shnerdly's Avatar
    Shnerdly is offline Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    The Frozen Tundra of Minnesota
    Posts
    85

    Default

    Where's the link to the new regs??
    Colt: The original point and click interface.

    Gun Control isn't about guns, It's about Control.

  4. #3
    mike3fan's Avatar
    mike3fan is offline Senior Board Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    michigan
    Posts
    2,777

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shnerdly View Post
    Where's the link to the new regs??
    see here

    CSA 2010, you guys need to see this...
    "I love college football. It's the only time of year you can walk down the street with a girl in one arm and a blanket in the other, and nobody thinks twice about it." --Duffy Daugherty



  5. #4
    zipy46 is offline Senior Board Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    In my head...
    Posts
    698

    Default

    Here is the point multiplier formula:

    Violations under CSA 2010 Carry More Weight
    I recently had the opportunity to speak with a safety director in one of the CSA 2010 test states and found that the FMCSA has already made a significant change in their published formulas for calculating safety scores. Violations have points assigned to them based on their likelihood of causing an accident or fatality. For example a speeding violation carries 5 points. The formulas used to calculate the safety scores assign a multiplier to more recent violations. FMCSA had published that violations in the most recent 0 – 12 months would have a multiplier of 2 (x 2) and violations occurring in the 13 to 24 month range would have a multiplier of 1.

    What I found out in my conversation with the safety director was the formulas were now different. Violations in the most recent 0 – 6 months have a multiplier of 3 (x 3), violations in the 7 – 12 month range have a multiplier of 2 (x 2) and violations in the 13 to 24 month range have a multiplier of 1.

    That’s a huge change in the impact the recent violations carry and could easily take a company from an acceptable safety score to a marginal level or worse. The FMCSA means business! CSA 2010 is still a work in progress and changes will likely continue through the testing phase. Therefore, it is extremely important for all drivers and carriers to stay on top of this new initiative and be ready for the full implementation of CSA 2010 in July through December of 2010.

    FMCSA has now published the new formulas with the new multiplier

  6. #5
    01WS6 is offline Rookie
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    47

    Default

    So does this mean that DOT is going to get with every carrier and pull every drivers DAC and MVR and assign us a score?

  7. #6
    Justruckin is offline Board Regular
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    462

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 01WS6 View Post
    So does this mean that DOT is going to get with every carrier and pull every drivers DAC and MVR and assign us a score?
    Yes, they will go back 3 years on your driving record and 2 years on a carrier. And that is one of the main reasons that some drivers are already losing their jobs under the CSA2010 regs. The points needed for a driver intervention are 90, and 72 for a carrier.

    Where it gets sticky, is the fact that any new points a driver receives are multiplied by 3. So a speeding ticket is 5 points, but after the multiplier, it will show on your record as 15 along with hitting the carrier you work for with 15 points. And warnings are handled as violations too, using the same point structure.

    How does it work? Let's say you get pulled over for speeding, 5 over on I-94 in Jackson County MI, 65 in a 60 (70 for cars), and a roadside DOT inspection. The cop finds three problems with your logs, that costs you say 9 points. You are running late and figure you will get the log for that day caught up at the consignee, who hasn't done that. Then Mr. DOT finds a few things on your equipment after crawling all over and under it for an hour, nothing that will put you out of service though, so he just gives you a warning and tells you to get it fixed. But, warnings count too towards your driving record, so you get another 6 points. And then he looks in your cab from the drivers door and sees that you have a TV and a laptop on the floor, now that gets you put out of service under the new fatigue rules and 10 more points. And lets not forget the speeding ticket, he is nice enough to give you another warning, cause he likes your attitude, but you still get 5 more points. Yep, you got a ***** for a DOT cop. So, after all is said and done, you now have a whopping 30 points, are put OOS and missed your delivery. Now take those 30 points and multiply by 3... You just scored a 90, and are now looking for another job.

    Sure, maybe a bit of a stretch, but lets say the above happened over a 9 month period, it still leads to 90 points. Like I said, there is allot of room for abuse here.

    Now I called and spoke with the guy that put allot of this down on paper and has been interviewing the carriers in the 7 test states that are already running under CSA2010. The one question I had for him was what role will the insurance companies play in all of this? They will want a say in who gets fired and hired under this new point scheme, as this looks to carry the same weight as ones MVR. The record keeping looks like it will fall to DAC for all drivers, but will the insurance companies have access to the driver scores? That has yet to be decided as far as he knew, but we both figured that it would only be a matter of time and the insurance companies will be right there in the thick of it.

    And when they do get involved, what will be the magic CSA2010 score that would keep a driver from being hired or when a carrier would be told to drop this guy because he has to many points on his CSA record?

    Currently, with my insurance company, if you have over 4 points on your MVR, they will not allow me to hire a driver. What will the CSA point score be, 30, 50, before you as a driver are not hireable? Again, this system is so open for abuse not only from the DOT, but also from the insurance companies and the carriers.

    One string of bad luck under this new system could honestly ruin even the best of drivers and also throw a good carrier right under the bus. Trust me, I have had months like that as a carrier and a driver, every darn thing that could go wrong does, through no fault of my own.
    Last edited by Justruckin; 10-24-2009 at 03:51 AM.

  8. #7
    geeshock's Avatar
    geeshock is offline Senior Board Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Hertford, NC
    Posts
    964

    Default

    I could see this being a baaaad thing. things are tough as they are but managable. They keep the drivers alert because a serious acedent can break your career. I can speak from experience since I was off the road for 7 mos b4 I found a local place that would keep me driving. I could see minor things getting you off the road with the new system.

  9. #8
    mike3fan's Avatar
    mike3fan is offline Senior Board Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    michigan
    Posts
    2,777

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Justruckin View Post
    And then he looks in your cab from the drivers door and sees that you have a TV and a laptop on the floor, now that gets you put out of service under the new fatigue rules and 10 more points.

    You give out good info, don't try to over hype it. This is not a regualtion and will not result in a point violation, it was a misguided attempt by the state of MN to circumvent the rules that are already in place and they have been told from the FMCSA that they are not empowered to enforce it

    A document obtained by OOIDA discloses conclusions by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) that the State of Minnesota failed to adopt safety regulations covering interstate motor carriers and their drivers. The document also states FMCSA’s position that there has been no delegation of authority by FMCSA that would allow Minnesota enforcement officers to enforce federal regulations on interstate motor carriers or their drivers
    "I love college football. It's the only time of year you can walk down the street with a girl in one arm and a blanket in the other, and nobody thinks twice about it." --Duffy Daugherty



  10. #9
    Justruckin is offline Board Regular
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    462

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mike3fan View Post
    You give out good info, don't try to over hype it. This is not a regualtion and will not result in a point violation, it was a misguided attempt by the state of MN to circumvent the rules that are already in place and they have been told from the FMCSA that they are not empowered to enforce it
    I don't think I am trying to over hype, just spelling it out and hopefully get a few guys attention, as this is what we are possibly facing out here in our current economic situation. I could see states ordering the DOT to step up the inspections to bring in much needed revenue. Then throw these new regs in, an over zealous revenue collecting DOT cop and this CSA2010 could really spell disaster for a driver.

    And think about it, work is thin to say the least out here, if you have a job you are lucky in many cases. Well, it could be said for the smaller carriers too. The income stream is way down, credit line has been cut or just turned off and you still need to make the payments and pay the help. So, you let the trucks slide a little, nothing serious, but the carrier just does not have the money to keep everything perfect on the truck like they used to. Tires are wearing a little thin, some wiring is bad regarding lighting, etc. And they want you to have the repairs done at the yard, but you know that it will be a week or more until you get back to the terminal. What are you going to do as a driver, park the truck? Will you fix it yourself out of your pocket? Or will you quit and hope you can find another outfit to work with that doesn't have such revenue problems?

    Or, if you work for a big carrier and do a drop and hook, middle of the night, trailer is pre-loaded and needs to be delivered 200 miles away for a 6am delivery. There are a few issues with the trailer, but nothing that will deter you from moving it safely to the consignee but bad enough to know that if the scale house down the road pulls you around back you will be getting a point or two. So, what do you do? Wait until morning? Call a service truck? Back track 50 miles to that TA with the shop? Take your chances at the scale house? God, this is nerve racking!

    And this is trucking, and I would say the majority of folks have no intentions of doing anything illegal out here or plan on getting into an accident. But sometimes things just don't go our way and the freight still has to go. In a perfect world, none of this would be an issue. I just see this as an incredibly bad time to change the rules on their head and to zealously go after so many people in such a hurting industry. I believe that the government will get the desired results, but at what cost to our industry as a whole.

  11. #10
    01WS6 is offline Rookie
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    47

    Default

    So lets say you have a minor at fault accident in you personal vehicle on your MVR like I do. When DOT goes over my MVR to give me my score will they be looking into that for points or just tickets?

  12. #11
    Justruckin is offline Board Regular
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    462

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 01WS6 View Post
    So lets say you have a minor at fault accident in you personal vehicle on your MVR like I do. When DOT goes over my MVR to give me my score will they be looking into that for points or just tickets?
    I would think that whatever you have on your MVR will transfer, as that is the way it is now. Will you get CSA points, I don't know? But my guess would be yes. Good question.
    Last edited by Justruckin; 10-24-2009 at 09:26 AM.

  13. #12
    mike3fan's Avatar
    mike3fan is offline Senior Board Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    michigan
    Posts
    2,777

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Justruckin View Post
    I don't think I am trying to over hype

    Then don't say you will get points for having a TV and a laptop in your truck.
    "I love college football. It's the only time of year you can walk down the street with a girl in one arm and a blanket in the other, and nobody thinks twice about it." --Duffy Daugherty



  14. #13
    golfhobo's Avatar
    golfhobo is offline Board Icon
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    the 19th hole / NC
    Posts
    9,467

    Default

    Well, might as well get this party started! I KNOW I'll see some halloween costumes of ghosts over this one... but, I think the info on the websites that SO FAR has been published is LACKING in a degree of specificity. The "spirit" so to speak is not being adequately explained.

    I'm SURE I'll be hassled over it, but I'll bet my last dollar that the so called "speeding" violation that some are claiming is 5 points is NOT your average 5 mph over ticket. I contend, though I cannot yet prove, that it refers to the "excessive" speeding of 15 over. This is is keeping with the other violations mentioned contemporaneously known as "disqualifying" violations.

    One phrase that MANY are glossing over is "factors leading to crashes." a mere 5 mph has NEVER been one of those factors. FIFTEEN OVER, improper lane changes, reckless driving, following too closely and maybe one or two I've forgotten, ARE the violations deemed by the DOT to be "contributing" factors to crashes and fatalities.

    THESE are the factors they are looking to "weight" and analyse, report and monitor. THESE are the dangerous activities that lead to fatalities, and the reduction of fatalities is the whole purpose of these new regulations or improvements in agency guidelines and enforcement.

    The collection, analysis and dissemination of the stats may be changing, but I STILL believe that the weighting that has ALWAYS been attributed to the various offenses has not changed.

    The sky is NOT falling! However, as we all know, there are clouds on the horizon. Better tighten up! Learn to keep good logs. Drive safely. Rolling a truck over is NOT a "simple mistake that anyone could do!" :hellno:
    Remember... friends are few and far between.

    TRUCKIN' AIN'T FOR WUSSES!!!

    "I am willing to admit that I was wrong." The Rev.

  15. #14
    Justruckin is offline Board Regular
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    462

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by golfhobo View Post
    Well, might as well get this party started! I KNOW I'll see some halloween costumes of ghosts over this one... but, I think the info on the websites that SO FAR has been published is LACKING in a degree of specificity. The "spirit" so to speak is not being adequately explained.

    I'm SURE I'll be hassled over it, but I'll bet my last dollar that the so called "speeding" violation that some are claiming is 5 points is NOT your average 5 mph over ticket. I contend, though I cannot yet prove, that it refers to the "excessive" speeding of 15 over. This is is keeping with the other violations mentioned contemporaneously known as "disqualifying" violations.

    One phrase that MANY are glossing over is "factors leading to crashes." a mere 5 mph has NEVER been one of those factors. FIFTEEN OVER, improper lane changes, reckless driving, following too closely and maybe one or two I've forgotten, ARE the violations deemed by the DOT to be "contributing" factors to crashes and fatalities.

    THESE are the factors they are looking to "weight" and analyse, report and monitor. THESE are the dangerous activities that lead to fatalities, and the reduction of fatalities is the whole purpose of these new regulations or improvements in agency guidelines and enforcement.

    The collection, analysis and dissemination of the stats may be changing, but I STILL believe that the weighting that has ALWAYS been attributed to the various offenses has not changed.

    The sky is NOT falling! However, as we all know, there are clouds on the horizon. Better tighten up! Learn to keep good logs. Drive safely. Rolling a truck over is NOT a "simple mistake that anyone could do!" :hellno:
    I agree, the sky is not falling. But, everyone should be aware of these new regs coming down. Now, I called Mr. Kessler, as you noted him in another post. Golfhobo, give him a call yourself, and talk with him as he seems to know much more about what is going on with these new regs, as he is in contact with companies already going through interventions. I spent almost a half hour on the phone with him, and don't worry, he is not a salesman and will not pitch you to buy anything. He was nice and made time for me, and encouraged me to please call him back if I had anymore questions. I think both of you would find it an informative few minutes well spent.

  16. #15
    zipy46 is offline Senior Board Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    In my head...
    Posts
    698

    Default

    I been researching 2010...

    It still looks like the same old DOT just in a new package.

    Sure they might remove the druggies and escaped felons that are driving today.

    But I feel certain dispatchers are free to do as they always have...and that is run

    you to death or until someone else's death.

    ....These companies will still hide behind and rely on a smoke screen of false data from the drivers (in most cases)

    Life in the world of trucking is not gonna change all that much.

    These companies from what I have seen are run by Safety Clubs....not safety depts.

    Its all a joke.:rofl:

  17. #16
    DaveP's Avatar
    DaveP is offline Senior Board Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    "The Shoals", Alabama
    Posts
    689

    Default

    I was told today the focus (in the beginning) will be on 10 hour breaks.

    All drivers will be viewed as GUILTY until proof can be shown that verifies what they see on your logs.
    In other words you've got to PROVE that 10 hr break was taken....and taken where your logs say you were.

  18. #17
    GMAN's Avatar
    GMAN is offline Administrator Board Icon
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    16,204

    Default

    I am not sure how you would be able to "prove" where you took a 10 hour break unless you purchased fuel or made a purchase and kept the receipt.

    Like every other regulation that they throw at us, we will learn to deal with them. Those who don't will simply not last in this business.

  19. #18
    headborg is offline Senior Board Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,514

    Default

    Here's some facts & speculation:

    TOP 60% of nations interstate CDL holders & Carriers:

    {continue to operate + ( Insufficient Data)}

    Next 30%-- Marginal Drivers & Carriers

    Bottom 10%-- UNFIT Drivers & Carriers

    Ok, #1: The goal of CSA 2010 : is stated as "increase contact between law enforcement & drivers & carriers- to target more drivers & carriers.

    The biggest "concern" here is that Insufficient Data group-- those drivers & carriers that have been "keeping their nose clean" by avoiding contact--- all contact-- aren't going to be rated as "good" or sufficiently safe-- instead they are going to be "targeted" for MORE INSPECTIONS... I.E. contact. It's a "better" way for them to hit up more drivers & carriers for revenue.

    Oh yeah, the Marginal drivers & carriers are going to also "get it"-- they will face INCREASED "contact" as well.

    So the bottom line is - 10% of drivers will get letters stating their CDL privileges have been revoked/suspended for up to 3 years- surrender their CDL for a regular operator's license ASAP at their nearest State Revenue Office. Many, will feel the need to "not notify" their employers of this-since after all their CDL is their "livelyhood'. Then if the Carriers don't spend $100 a year for a subscription + $10 a pop to check the new "pre-employment screening" database-- they won't know how close their drivers are or where they fall into the "unfit" catagory. Plus, the carrier will have to do monthly MVR checks to constantly varifly IF their "marginal" drivers fall below the cut-off or IF their drivers are classifed as "unfit".

    And the politicans are already looking at ways to implement "weekend" safety classes/courses where these "unfit" drivers can spend $1000.00 and be "re-certified" as Marginal.....

    After the FMCSA eliminates the bottom 10%-- then the insurance companies are going to look at the now bottom of the barrel-- the "marginal" drivers-- and tell the companies who has to go or how much it will cost extra to keep any of these drivers. Probably 50% of these-- the bottom of the "marginal" drivers will now have to work for the large "mega" SELF INSURED carriers- because they will be the only one's that can "afford" to take them ( or work on a 1099 form + pay your own insurance) and you can bet when it comes recruiting time-- the driver's "marginal" status will effect the "rate" of pay the mega company is willing to offer-- like .23cpm or .24cpm. Here's a whole new "sweat shop" labor force-- just created by the federal government.
    I'd like to invite you all to visit and join
    my new message board at:
    http://drivers-lounge.proboards.com

  20. #19
    01WS6 is offline Rookie
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    47

    Default

    The sleeping giant is just about awake. Imagine the lawsuits that are going to come from this.

  21. #20
    Fredog's Avatar
    Fredog is offline Senior Board Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    North Georgia
    Posts
    3,746

    Default

    if you do what you are supposed to do, you wont have any problems, read the regs instead of just posting incorrect information, for instance, if you read them, there are rules against citing you multiple times for things like logbook violations or multiple lights out, they can only cite you one time.
    read all 299 pages like I did before you start posting b.s

  22. This ad will disappear if you login

 




Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1