Can I beat this ticket?

[01WS6]

I was cited for "Failure to yield to a stationary public safety vehicle" in Ohio. I was traveling southbound on 75 near bowling green in heavy traffic. There was another truck about 7 seconds distance ahead of me that didnt move over until the last second for a state boy with a pulled-over 4-wheeler, which was limiting my view of the right shoulder. I had 2 cars next to me and 3 more behind those ones and couldnt move over. I slowed the truck as much as I could given the limited time I had to react and the fact that I was carring a 45000lb load, but apparently that wasnt good enough for the officer so he tracked me down about a mile later and nailed me for it. I'm using Interstate Trucker to fight the ticket, the cop has declined for a plea bargain and wants a court trial in which i will have to appear with my lawyer. This is a 2 point offense but when its sent back to my home state its going to be changed to the nearest offense, which is failure to yield to a moving AMBULANCE, and is 4 whopping points. As I said I did slow down as much as I could but i was going about 55mph when i passed him (the speed limit was 65mph). The cop said I didnt slow down but I dont see how he could have been able to tell how fast I was going other then by making a visual estimate. He complained about making has car rock back and fourth too. I feel that the raising of the speed limit to 65mph for trucks in Ohio is partly to blame for this, its getting harder for troopers to cite drivers for speeding now and as most of you know truck driver ticket revenue funds half of Ohio's state budget so they are looking for any excuse they can to write a citation. Has anyone else had to fight a ticket like this?

[Rev.Vassago]

I was cited for "Failure to yield to a stationary public safety vehicle" in Ohio. I was traveling southbound on 75 near bowling green in heavy traffic. There was another truck about 7 seconds distance ahead of me that didnt move over until the last second for a state boy with a pulled-over 4-wheeler, which was limiting my view of the right shoulder. I had 2 cars next to me and 3 more behind those ones and couldnt move over. I slowed the truck as much as I could given the limited time I had to react and the fact that I was carring a 45000lb load, but apparently that wasnt good enough for the officer so he tracked me down about a mile later and nailed me for it. I'm using Interstate Trucker to fight the ticket, the cop has declined for a plea bargain and wants a court trial in which i will have to appear with my lawyer. This is a 2 point offense but when its sent back to my home state its going to be changed to the nearest offense, which is failure to yield to a moving AMBULANCE, and is 4 whopping points. As I said I did slow down as much as I could but i was going about 55mph when i passed him (the speed limit was 65mph). The cop said I didnt slow down but I dont see how he could have been able to tell how fast I was going other then by making a visual estimate. He complained about making has car rock back and fourth too. I feel that the raising of the speed limit to 65mph for trucks in Ohio is partly to blame for this, its getting harder for troopers to cite drivers for speeding now and as most of you know truck driver ticket revenue funds half of Ohio's state budget so they are looking for any excuse they can to write a citation. Has anyone else had to fight a ticket like this?

I believe the law is 20 mph under the posted speed limit if you can't move over. The problem with the scenario you've given is that if you couldn't see him, and you couldn't slow down in time, then you're admitting you were following the vehicle ahead of you too closely.

[01WS6]

I believe the law is 20 mph under the posted speed limit if you can't move over. The problem with the scenario you've given is that if you couldn't see him, and you couldn't slow down in time, then you're admitting you were following the vehicle ahead of you too closely.

I know that in Texas the law states you have to slow down 20mph under the speed limit, however I looked up the ordinance number I was cited for in Ohio, and the law doesnt state an exact mph that you have to slow down to while passing the officer. As far as following distance goes I had seven seconds following distance on the truck ahead of me, which from what i understand is considered a safe following distance at 65 mph. I hope the law for ohio isnt 20mph below the speed limit, but even if it is the biggest issue is how did the officer obtain my speed when I passed him? I dont see how he could have got me on radar.

[Rev.Vassago]

I know that in Texas the law states you have to slow down 20mph under the speed limit, however I looked up the ordinance number I was cited for in Ohio, and the law doesnt state an exact mph that you have to slow down to while passing the officer. As far as following distance goes I had seven seconds following distance on the truck ahead of me, which from what i understand is considered a safe following distance at 65 mph. I hope the law for ohio isnt 20mph below the speed limit, but even if it is the biggest issue is how did the officer obtain my speed when I passed him? I dont see how he could have got me on radar.

He didn't cite you for speeding, so the exact speed is irrelevant. In his expert opinion (and his opinion IS an expert opinion whether you want it to be or not), you were traveling too fast to yield, and by your own admission, you lacked the reaction time to slow down to the commonly accepted 20 mph below the speed limit given the weight of your vehicle.

It would be no different than if you were given a citation for "following too closely." The officer doesn't have to have measured the distance between you and the vehicle you were in front of to make the determination that you were doing so.

[GMAN]

It sounds like you have nothing to lose by fighting it. As to whether you can beat it or not, that is debatable.

[Uturn2001]

Here is a little "trick" I used when caught in that type of situation. If I can't move over and I know I am not going to get slowed way down in time because I didn't see the vehicle soon enough I hit the brakes and full jakes. The jakes help slow you down and the noise helps warn the cop that something is coming.

[SickRick]

1 second for every 10 feet of rig + 1 more second over 40 MPH. I know the additional second doesn't seem like much, but 65 Miles per Hour = 95.333 Feet per Second - potentially more than enough additional space to recognize the hazard.

Most tickets are "beaten" by the officer doing a no-show for the trial date. Lawyers will usually ask for a continuance if he shows for the first one, hoping he no-shows for the second one. Troopers on Traffics Patrol's job description is: write tickets & go to court.

These "mover over" laws were enacted because too many cops were getting KILLED during traffic stops. Hence cops are REAL KEEN in seeing this law ENFORCED (really can't blame them there). You can't have it BOTH WAYS - truckers complain about different speeds for cars and trucks being unsafe, then you're trying to blame the increased speed for trucks, on what truly just amounts to YOUR BAD LUCK.

Expert witness or not, the biggest issue is getting the cop to testify as to just HOW he know you hadn't slowed down below whatever the statute specifies and Ohio's law IS rather AMBIGUOUS on this point. A truck moving where "the driver shall proceed with due caution, reduce the speed of the motor vehicle, and maintain a safe speed for the road, weather, and traffic conditions" will rock a car on the shoulder whether they're doing 65, 55 or 45.

A "good lawyer" can argue this ambiguity - but a small town judge will usually side with the cop. CDL drivers can't get "no points/driving school" - we either BEAT IT OR EAT IT. Keep in mind you also need to report this to your EMPLOYER...

Rick

[LBF]

Get your proper statutes for Ohio and ALWAYS use the correct wording. Do not make reference to any other state's requirements, or any specifics that the prosecuting jursidiction's statutes does not contain.

As noted, it is up to the officer to explain to the court how he determined you to be in violation.

It is up to you to tell the court how it is you complied with the statute.

Never mind the sad story about not seeing in time. Drivers have the responsibility to not drive the vehicle in a manner that it cannot be controlled within the distance you can see....

Stick with the traffic beside you preventing a lane change and that you slowed on seeing the cruiser.

And you now know that the enforcement community expects to see a greater reduction in speed as you blow their hats off....

[Rev.Vassago]

Get your proper statutes for Ohio and ALWAYS use the correct wording. Do not make reference to any other state's requirements, or any specifics that the prosecuting jursidiction's statutes does not contain.

As noted, it is up to the officer to explain to the court how he determined you to be in violation.

Yes, if he is asked. The prosecution likely won't, so it's up to the defense to do so.

It is up to you to tell the court how it is you complied with the statute.

I disagree. Taking the stand in your defense is never a good idea, as you can be cross examined by the prosecution. The burden of proof should be kept on the prosecution. Taking the stand in your own defense is a last resort, and is never required. I've beaten tickets before without ever having anyone take the stand other than the officer.

[Kevin0915]

It sounds like you have nothing to lose by fighting it. As to whether you can beat it or not, that is debatable.

He'll lose the time and the miles he could have driven to show up in court. And i am sure the court will not reward him with said lost pay should he win.

I would have fought my famous 'barricade' ticket, or atleast the equipment ticket, but figure it was marginal at best that i'd get it overturned, not to mention not get rewarded the lost pay.

But hey, if it keeps it off your record.

[01WS6]

If i plead guilty it will be changed to failure to yield to an emergency vehicle in my home state which is FOUR points. A four point ticket will likely get me fired so i have to fight it.

[cdswans]

I did a quick search using only the statute #. I found 2 Ohio cases on appeal for which your statute was the "probable cause" for traffic stops that resulted in convictions for OUI/DWI. Their premise is that your statute is so vague, there really was no probable cause to stop the drivers who were ultimately convicted of OUI/DWI. Both convictions (OUI/DWI) were upheld becuse in both cases, the cops were justified to stop them, just like they did you . . in their expert opinion . .

It's important to note . . they were appealing OUI convictions, not "move over" convictions. In either case, the State probably dropped the "move over" charge to prevent it from interfering with the OUI charge. It's still a reasonable stop, whether or not the charges were dropped.

One of the cases states clearly that there is very little "case law" regarding your statute. In other words, cases like yours, however disposed, don't get appealed. That tells me that A, those who get the tickets usually mail in the fine and forget it, or B, if they do get in front of a Jodge, the statute is so vague that the cases get thrown out; no conviction = no appeal = no case law, and C, lawyers, in general, think your statute is vague.

If your lawyer gives you the "I think I can get this done but it will cost you . . " routine, you have a scumbag for a lawyer.

I've got about 2 hours into this so that'll be $1500, thank you. Sorry, no checks.

Now, beat it.

NEXT CASE!

[chuck3507]

It doesn't matter what the ticket is you should always fight it. I had a friend that beat an 11mph over speeding ticket. He just kept appealing it until it reached a judge that didn't have time for it and dropped the charges. It did cost him about a thousand dollars though. He had to beat it because before he got his cdl he got stopped driving his dodge dually pulling a tandem axle gooseneck and was told he qualified for commercial use.

[01WS6]

I did a quick search using only the statute #. I found 2 Ohio cases on appeal for which your statute was the "probable cause" for traffic stops that resulted in convictions for OUI/DWI. Their premise is that your statute is so vague, there really was no probable cause to stop the drivers who were ultimately convicted of OUI/DWI. Both convictions (OUI/DWI) were upheld becuse in both cases, the cops were justified to stop them, just like they did you . . in their expert opinion . .

It's important to note . . they were appealing OUI convictions, not "move over" convictions. In either case, the State probably dropped the "move over" charge to prevent it from interfering with the OUI charge. It's still a reasonable stop, whether or not the charges were dropped.

One of the cases states clearly that there is very little "case law" regarding your statute. In other words, cases like yours, however disposed, don't get appealed. That tells me that A, those who get the tickets usually mail in the fine and forget it, or B, if they do get in front of a Jodge, the statute is so vague that the cases get thrown out; no conviction = no appeal = no case law, and C, lawyers, in general, think your statute is vague.

If your lawyer gives you the "I think I can get this done but it will cost you . . " routine, you have a scumbag for a lawyer.

I've got about 2 hours into this so that'll be $1500, thank you. Sorry, no checks.

Now, beat it.

NEXT CASE!

I hope your right about it being thrown out of court, because I really dont think any judge is going to take my word over a law enforcement officers. I think my only real hope is the fact that the cop has no way to VERIFY the speed I was going when i passed him, other then his visual ESTIMATE. It seems the way that law is written that if i was going 64mph when I passed him I would have been following the law since there is no specific speed listed to which I was supposed to slow down to. Note that like I said before, I was going more then 10 miles under that speed when i passed him. The fact that im pulling a 53 foot trailer with 45000 pounds in the back also helps explain why i couldnt move over OR stop on a dime like the officer would have liked me to do. I'll be taking my bill of lading with me to court that day showing the weight of my load and a few photos representing traffic conditions and the clear obstruction of view that another tractor trailer has even while at a safe following distance, so the cop cant say that i should have seen him a mile away. Hopefully the judge will understand that I cant control the actions of other drivers in cars and trucks alike when they are passing me. As far as an appeal goes, how many do I get? Just one? And If I lose and do appeal does that stop the citation from being put on my record until the new hearing is done with?

[Rev.Vassago]

I hope your right about it being thrown out of court, because I really dont think any judge is going to take my word over a law enforcement officers. I think my only real hope is the fact that the cop has no way to VERIFY the speed I was going when i passed him, other then his visual ESTIMATE.

He didn't give you a speeding citation, so the actual speed is irrelevant. The citation he gave you is SUPPOSED to be based off his subjective opinion. In this case, it appears he was correct, since you already admitted to being only 10 mph under the speed limit.

[01WS6]

Im glad your not the Judge then because id really be ****ed wouldnt I?

[cdswans]

I hope your right about it being thrown out of court, because I really dont think any judge is going to take my word over a law enforcement officers.

You need to get that idea out of your head. It's your court that you pay for. You're going in with a lawyer and a lawyer is an officer of the court every bit as much as the LEO is.

It's not your word against the cop's. It's the presentation of the facts and the application of the law. This case comes down to 3 questions:

Did you move over as the law requires? No, you couldn't, as the law anticipates.

Did you slow down as the law requires? Yes, you did.

Were you operating in a safe manner, consistent with the conditions? You say you were and you have a living, breathing cop and an intact cruiser to prove it.

Case closed. Unless he's got dash-cam video showing his hood lifting, a bunch of dust flying and your trailer doors . .


There's a narrow stretch on SB 405 around Renton, WA where I had the misfortune of running out of fuel during rush hour. I made it into the breakdown lane with five tires against the right hand concrete barrier and five on the fog line. The cars and trucks that passed real close rocked me and those that gave a little room didn't. Your cop may have fealt threatened, as I did, in my circumstances. I'm guessing that's why you got the ticket but you didn't do anything wrong.

[Rev.Vassago]

Did you slow down as the law requires? Yes, you did.

10 mph is not what the law requires.

[01WS6]

Maybe in Texas it isnt but Ohio doesnt have a REQUIRED amount of mph that you must reduce speed.

[Rev.Vassago]

Maybe in Texas it isnt but Ohio doesnt have a REQUIRED amount of mph that you must reduce speed.

Which means that it's up to the cop to decide whether you met the provisions of the law. And he has already said you didn't.

Hey - you may be able to get off on this ticket. I hope you do. But I have my doubts. Please make sure to let us know what the final result of it is.