Bobtail

[ForcedInduction]

Is a CDL required to bobtail a truck on public roads? A road test or driver pickup/dropoff, for example.

[avguy]

Unless the GVW is under 25,999 Lbs you're gonna need a CDL.
If you can somehow prove the unit is never used as a part of a combination vehicle (remove the 5th wheel) you might be able to get away with a class B license.

[freebirdrfd]

Is a CDL required to bobtail a truck on public roads? A road test or driver pickup/dropoff, for example.

i believe if it has air brakes you need a c.d.l. air brake endorsment.

[wanderingson]

Unless the GVW is under 25,999 Lbs you're gonna need a CDL.

This is true.
I would say just about every tractor ever made is under 26k.

My company has a few straight trucks that are non-CDL trucks (under 26000 GVW) that also have air brakes, and no CDL is required to drive them.

Bobtailing a tractor is no different. Anyone with a class D license can bobtail. (class D meaning DONT KNOW HOW TO DRIVE) LOL Gotta love the 4 wheelers! Of course, most companies might not let anyone without a CDL bobtail a tractor for insurance reasons.

Hey forcedinduction,.... I find your SWIFT pics amusing. Do you have a beef with them. or do you just like to pick on them? LOL

[ForcedInduction]

Hey forcedinduction,.... I find your SWIFT pics amusing. Do you have a beef with them. or do you just like to pick on them? LOL

I work for them. Being a "training company" I see the drivers do all sorts of screwed up things a true professional would never do.

Last year a driver drove the trailer tandems over a 1500lb corner boulder at a Wal-Mart DC. He called onroad and they thought he got a rock between the tires and told him to drive to the shop. Common sense would tell a good driver (besides not to drive over a rock in the first place!) that they didn't understand the situation. He then drove 20 miles dragging this boulder under his trailer, hitting 2 lightpoles and a bridge on his way back, also ignoring the police car behind him. He lost his job, got charges filed by the city and wal-mart and the rock is now "protecting" the corner of the yard fence. It still manages to get snagged and moved about 20' every few weeks.

This was from a driver that tried to turn around in a business front loop. The only reason he stopped was the yellow post ripped off his red line.



A few weeks ago a driver in town ran into an El Pollo Loco sign and two parked cars. He blew a 0.30.

[Windwalker]

This is true.
I would say just about every tractor ever made is under 26k.

My company has a few straight trucks that are non-CDL trucks (under 26000 GVW) that also have air brakes, and no CDL is required to drive them.

Bobtailing a tractor is no different. Anyone with a class D license can bobtail. (class D meaning DONT KNOW HOW TO DRIVE) LOL Gotta love the 4 wheelers! Of course, most companies might not let anyone without a CDL bobtail a tractor for insurance reasons.

Hey forcedinduction,.... I find your SWIFT pics amusing. Do you have a beef with them. or do you just like to pick on them? LOL

I'm afraid "X" gets the "square" on that one...

You'll find that they don't go by actual truck weight, but the GVWR. If the registration says 80.000, you'd better have a CDL, with or without a trailer. So, if a single-axle day-cab only weighs 15,000, you still need a CDL if the registration says 80,000. No way around it.

[Myth_Buster]

i believe if it has air brakes you need a c.d.l. air brake endorsment.

Air brakes do not drive the need for a CDL. The vehicle's gross vehicle weight rating does or placards or number of passengers:

Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle—

(a) Has a gross combination weight rating of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds); or

(b) Has a gross vehicle weight rating of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 pounds or more); or

(c) Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; or

(d) Is of any size and is used in the transportation of hazardous materials as defined in this section.

I would say just about every tractor ever made is under 26k.

Windwalker is correct, it's the manufacturer's declared GVW rating, not the weight of the vehicle.

Consider a tractor and trailer is capable of 80 pounds in most states thats broke down by:

12,000 + 34,000 + 34,000

So the tractor has to be rated at least 36,000 pounds.

Be safe.

[Orangetxguy]

I work for them. Being a "training company" I see the drivers do all sorts of screwed up things a true professional would never do.

Last year a driver drove the trailer tandems over a 1500lb corner boulder at a Wal-Mart DC. He called onroad and they thought he got a rock between the tires and told him to drive to the shop. Common sense would tell a good driver (besides not to drive over a rock in the first place!) that they didn't understand the situation. He then drove 20 miles dragging this boulder under his trailer, hitting 2 lightpoles and a bridge on his way back, also ignoring the police car behind him. He lost his job, got charges filed by the city and wal-mart and the rock is now "protecting" the corner of the yard fence. It still manages to get snagged and moved about 20' every few weeks.

This was from a driver that tried to turn around in a business front loop. The only reason he stopped was the yellow post ripped off his red line.



A few weeks ago a driver in town ran into an El Pollo Loco sign and two parked cars. He blew a 0.30.

NOW YOU SCARED ME !!!!

[FunkRider]

I know here in Ontario you can use a G license (regular car) in anything as long as it doesn't have air brakes and is registered for under 11,001 kg (24 250 lbs) GVW. The vehicle itself can have a higher GVW stated by the manufacturer but the registered gross weight can't be higher than 24 250lbs.

I think with an air brake endorsement on a G license you could drive a tractor registered for only 11 000kg for fun. You can tow a trailer with a G license as long as it doesn't weigh more than 4 600kg (10 141 lbs) but the combination of the truck and trailer would be pretty damn close to going over that magic 11 000 kg GVW number even with a light trailer.

[golfhobo]

Mythbuster said:

Consider a tractor and trailer is capable of 80 pounds in most states thats broke down by:

12,000 + 34,000 + 34,000

So the tractor has to be rated at least 36,000 pounds.

SAY WHAT????

Um.... what if it is a single screw?

The answer to the O.P's question is this: IF the tractor (ALONE) has a manufacturer's GVWR (located on the door jamb) of 26,001 lbs or more, and is driven WITHOUT a trailer in tow, a Class B license is required. (unless, of course, it is NOT registered for use in interstate commerce or is not hauling hazmat or 16 passengers.)

I don't KNOW what the GVWR of a class 8 tractor (alone... not GCVWR) is. I'll check mine tomorrow. But a straight truck (or any truck) with a GVWR of less than 26,001 lbs.... does not require a CDL.

I'm sure I'll get an argument, but I have my citations ready. See you this weekend.

[Windwalker]

Mythbuster said:



SAY WHAT????

Um.... what if it is a single screw?

The answer to the O.P's question is this: IF the tractor (ALONE) has a manufacturer's GVWR (located on the door jamb) of 26,001 lbs or more, and is driven WITHOUT a trailer in tow, a Class B license is required. (unless, of course, it is NOT registered for use in interstate commerce or is not hauling hazmat or 16 passengers.)

I don't KNOW what the GVWR of a class 8 tractor (alone... not GCVWR) is. I'll check mine tomorrow. But a straight truck (or any truck) with a GVWR of less than 26,001 lbs.... does not require a CDL.

I'm sure I'll get an argument, but I have my citations ready. See you this weekend.

If you want to be safe with any kind of commercial truck, check the registration for what weight it's licensed for. Over 26,000 and you better have a CDL, bobtail or not. Most states go by that. Even a small straight truck that is licensed for 30,000 or more, you need a CDL to run it empty, regardless what the empty weight is.

But a straight truck (or any truck) with a GVWR of less than 26,001 lbs.... does not require a CDL.

Better make that 25,999. 26,001 is OVER 26,000 which is the limit. There was a time when school bus mfgr's were rating their busses for 26,001 so that anyone that wanted to buy a used one and make a motorhome out of it had to have a CDL. 26,000 and higher requires a CDL to operate it on the highway. And, you can't simply take the rating tag off and claim something less because the VIN number can be checked and the rating found that way.

[golfhobo]

If you want to be safe with any kind of commercial truck, check the registration for what weight it's licensed for. Over 26,000 and you better have a CDL, bobtail or not. Most states go by that. Even a small straight truck that is licensed for 30,000 or more, you need a CDL to run it empty, regardless what the empty weight is.

Better make that 25,999. 26,001 is OVER 26,000 which is the limit. There was a time when school bus mfgr's were rating their busses for 26,001 so that anyone that wanted to buy a used one and make a motorhome out of it had to have a CDL. 26,000 and higher requires a CDL to operate it on the highway. And, you can't simply take the rating tag off and claim something less because the VIN number can be checked and the rating found that way.

Sorry Windy, but from here:

Part 383: Commercial driver's license standards; requirements and penalties

(a)(1) Combination vehicle (Group A)—Any combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds).


(a)(2) Heavy Straight Vehicle (Group B)—Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) GVWR.

The requirement is ONE POUND OVER 26,000 lbs. 25,999 lbs is good.... but, 26,000 lbs is BELOW the limit.

Just keeping you "honest."

[Windwalker]

The point was, just because the weight of the tractor alone is less than 26,000 pounds, does not mean you do not have to have a CDL to drive it. In the case of a single screw (UPS, Yellow, Roadway, etc) it may have a registered weight of 92,000 pounds. Pulling doubles, each load axle could be at 20,000. Two trailer axles at that is 40,000, and a dolly and the drives at the same is 80,000, plus the steers at 12,000. Now, take a 16,000 pounds tractor on the road without a CDL and show that registration to DOT.

[golfhobo]

This thread gets stranger and stranger as it goes along!

As in the alcohol thread, the first few answers contradicted each other and in most cases.... the regs. Then came MythBuster with his usual confusion and/or misinterpretation of the regs.

He said that a tractor MUST be rated at 36,000 lbs because the tandem drives can support 34,000 lbs and the steers (usually) are restricted to 12, 000 lbs. This is absurd! So, to make a point, I asked him what if it were a single screw?

Then Windy introduces "registered" weight limits, which I admit I know NOTHING about! But, I DO know that I can't find a single word in the regs about that. They deal in weight RATINGS.

Windwalker said:

The point was, just because the weight of the tractor alone is less than 26,000 pounds, does not mean you do not have to have a CDL to drive it.

I have no idea what a tractor weighs by itself.... and made NO COMMENT concerning it. MY POINT was that the limit is 26,001 lbs! So, the "exclusion" point is at 26,000 lbs..... not 25,999. And THAT is gvwr, not actual WEIGHT.

In the case of a single screw (UPS, Yellow, Roadway, etc) it may have a registered weight of 92,000 pounds. Pulling doubles, each load axle could be at 20,000. Two trailer axles at that is 40,000, and a dolly and the drives at the same is 80,000, plus the steers at 12,000.

These are combined axle weights. The combination vehicle STILL must weigh no more than 80,000 lbs in most states. With a double screw tractor, I could be "registered" ( I guess) at 106,000 lbs! But, I can't WEIGH that much without a permit.

PER the FMCSR's, overweight tickets (and CDL requirements) are based on federal weight limits (and GVWR's) and NOT on "registered" weights. I have no idea what "registered" weights have to DO with this discussion.

Now, take a 16,000 pounds tractor on the road without a CDL and show that registration to DOT.

The DOT officer is going to look at the GVWR and NOT the registration (per se.)

ACTUALLY..... a class 8 tractor that is NOT "registered" for interstate commerce appears to be OUTSIDE the scope of the law and the CDL requirements. Looks to ME as if Joe Blow could buy one and drive it without a CDL if it were not registered in interstate commerce!

I SAID that, according to the original post, the driver would probably have to have a class B license. That is "assuming" that the bobtail rig was registered for interstate commerce AND was GVW rated at 26,001 lbs or more. And HERE is my proof:

From the interpretation of part 383.91: [edited to correct section number]

Question 5: Do tow truck operators need CDLs? If so, in what vehicle group(s)?

Guidance: For CDL purposes, the tow truck and its towed vehicle are treated the same as any other powered unit towing a non-powered unit:

[Don't be put off by the fact that they are talking about tow trucks. They SAID they are treated the SAME WAY.]

—If the GCWR of the tow truck and its towed vehicle is 26,001 pounds or more, and the towed vehicle alone exceeds 10,000 pounds GVWR, then the driver needs a Group A CDL.

—If the GVWR of the tow truck alone is 26,001 pounds or more, and the driver either (a) drives the tow truck without a vehicle in tow, [that equates to bobtail] or (b) drives the tow truck with a towed vehicle of 10,000 pounds or less GVWR, then the driver needs a Group B CDL.

—A driver of a tow truck or towing configuration that does not fit either configuration description above, requires a Group C CDL [didn't even know there was such a class] only if he or she tows a vehicle required to be placarded for hazardous materials on a ‘‘subsequent move,’’ i.e. after the initial movement of the disabled vehicle to the nearest storage or repair facility.

So.... if I read this [and the REG] right. a SINGLE power unit (driven as a bobtail) requires a CDL-B "only" if it is registered in interstate commerce or is hauling a hazmat placarded load, or 16 passengers AND has a GVWR of 26,001 lbs or more.

It is MY understanding that ALL vehicles "registered" by a carrier are registered for interstate commerce IF they do such type of business. I don't KNOW if a carrier can register a single truck for purposes NOT including interstate commerce (since that is the business they are in.) However, I believe that they DO register smaller trucks this way so that shop personnel can drive them WITHOUT a CDL.

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that ANYONE can buy a class 8 truck (with a GVWR of 26,001 lbs.) and if it is NOT registered in interstate commerce, can drive it without ANY group/class of CDL.

This would explain all the class 8 trucks on the road pulling "house trailers" with a NOT FOR HIRE sticker on the door. I have my doubts that all these rich people HAVE CDL's!

[Rev.Vassago]

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that ANYONE can buy a class 8 truck (with a GVWR of 26,001 lbs.) and if it is NOT registered in interstate commerce, can drive it without ANY group/class of CDL.

That would depend upon the State it is registered in.

[Kranky]

Seems to me I remember a reg stating that the deciding factor as to whether a CDL is needed or not is:

If the actual gross weight of the vehicle or the registered gross weight of the vehicle, or the manufacturers gross vehicle weight rating exceeds26,000 lbs. then a CDL is needed.

In other words, even if you had a truck with a rated GVW of 25,000 lbs, and it was registered at 25,000 lbs. GVW, if said truck is overloaded to 26,000 lbs. or more, then a CDL is required to drive it.

Of course in cases of vehicles under 26,000 lbs. gross weight hauling hazmat or in the case of buses, a CDL is required for these also.

[Windwalker]

My son-in-law ran a hotshot for a number of years. He used a loophole because he owned the rig, but even that way, if he registered the truck for over 26,000, not only he, but anyone that drove the truck would require a CDL. By keeping the registration below 26,000 for both truck and trailer, the truck could be driven by anyone without the trailer. So, the weight listed on the registration does play a part in the requirement.

And, when MythBuster said 36,000, I'm sure it was a typo. 34,000 and 12,000 is 46,000.

[Rev.Vassago]

Keeping the registration below 26,000 lbs would effectively eliminate any chance of using the vehicle to haul any sort of load, and one cannot change their registration weight simply because they are bobtailing. If the tractor registration says anything above 26,000 lbs, a class a CDL is required.

[golfhobo]

Keeping the registration below 26,000 lbs would effectively eliminate any chance of using the vehicle to haul any sort of load, and one cannot change their registration weight simply because they are bobtailing. If the tractor registration says anything above 26,000 lbs, a class a CDL is required.

Nope.

—If the GVWR of the tow truck alone is 26,001 pounds or more, and the driver either (a) drives the tow truck without a vehicle in tow, [that equates to bobtail] or (b) drives the tow truck with a towed vehicle of 10,000 pounds or less GVWR, then the driver needs a Group B CDL.

[Rev.Vassago]

Nope.

You obviously don't understand what "GVWR" means. You're misquoting a regulation that doesn't apply (remember the whole "migrant workers" thing?) and assigning it a reg # of 383.77, which isnt even accurate.

Subpart E—Testing and licensing procedures

§383.77 Substitute for driving skills tests.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...eyword=383.77: