log books

[Windwalker]

Actually, if you run your butt off, never stop to load or unload, fueled when you did a PTI, and averaged 62 mph:

Monday:
PTI FROM 12:00 - 12:15
DRIVING 12:15 - 11:15 am
PTI 11:15 - 11:30
SLEEPER BERTH 11:30 - 9:30
PTI 9:30 - 9:45
DRIVE 9:45 - 12:00

TOTAL ON DUTY TIME: 14 HOURS
TOTAL DRIVING TIME: 13.25 HOURS

TUESDAY:
DRIVE 12:00 - 8:30
PTI 8:30 - 8:45
SLEEPER BERTH 8:45 - 6:45
PTI 6:45 - 7:00
DRIVE 7:00 - 12:00

TOTAL ON DUTY TIME: 14 HOURS
TOTAL DRIVING TIME: 13.5 HOURS

WEDNESDAY:
DRIVE 12:00 - 5:00
PTI 5:00 - 5:15
SLEEPER BERTH 5:15 - 3:15
PTI 3:15 - 3:30
DRIVE 3:30 - 12:00

TOTAL ON DUTY TIME: 14 HOURS
TOTAL DRIVING TIME: 13.5 HOURS

THURSDAY:
DRIVE 12:00 - 2:30
PTI 2:30 - 2:45
SLEEPER BERTH 2:45 - 12:45
PTI 12:45 - 1:00
DRIVE 1:00 - 12:00

TOTAL ON DUTY TIME: 14 HOURS
TOTAL DRIVING TIME: 13.5 HOURS

FRIDAY:
PTI 12:00 - 12:15
SLEEPER BERTH 12:15 - 10:15
PTI 10:15 - 10:30
DRIVE 10:30 - 9:30
PTI 9:30 - 9:45
SLEEPER BERTH 9:45 - 12:00

TOTAL ON DUTY TIME: 11.75 HOURS
TOTAL DRIVING TIME: 11 HOURS

SATURDAY:

SLEEPER BERTH 12:00 - 7:45
PTI 7:45 - 8:00
DRIVE 8:00 - 10:00
PTI 10:00 - 10:15
BEGIN 34 HOUR RESET

TOTAL ON DUTY TIME: 2.5 HOURS
TOTAL DRIVING TIME: 2 HOURS

SUNDAY:

PTI: 8:15 PM - 8:30
DRIVE 8:30 - 12:00

TOTAL ON DUTY TIME: 3.75 HOURS
TOTAL DRIVING TIME: 3.5 HOURS

TOTAL ON DUTY TIME FOR PAST 7 DAYS: 74 HOURS
TOTAL DRIVING TIME FOR PAST 7 DAYS: 70.25 HOURS

70.25 HOURS x 62 MPH = 4355.5 MILES x 0.40 PER MILE = $1742.20

Now good luck finding a carrier who doesn't want you to load or unload, but rather just drive around.

And, not long after, you find that you are the "WEALTHIEST MAN IN THE CEMMETARY"

[Useless]

now the reason i am asking 1 need more money and 2 my cousin maid 1500usd one week so its not too far to get the rest

Blake;

This is a TRUCKING forum!!

Who gives a rat's ass about what your cousin's MAID made??

On the other hand, that's pretty good dinero for working as a MAID!! Your cousin must make some pretty good $$$ to be able to pay a MAID that much money!!

Is your cousin a "jodge"??

[Hawkjr]

I'm curious, by FMSCA standards how long do you have to show for a pre trip.. is it 15 or 30?? I've always been taught since school to show 30 mins

[Rev.Vassago]

I'm curious, by FMSCA standards how long do you have to show for a pre trip.. is it 15 or 30?? I've always been taught since school to show 30 mins

The FMCSA does not designate a set period of time that must be shown. You need to show however long it takes you. If it doesn't take you 30 minutes, then there is no reason to show 30 minutes, unless it is company policy (even though it is still log falsification). If it takes you 30 minutes, and you show 15, that's log falsification too.

[golfhobo]

The FMCSA does not designate a set period of time that must be shown. You need to show however long it takes you.

Correct.

If it doesn't take you 30 minutes, then there is no reason to show 30 minutes,

Correct.

unless it is company policy (even though it is still log falsification).

Incorrect. And I don't feel like quoting the reg. You should KNOW better.

Run it by your friend MythBuster! I can't wait to hear his nonresponsive answer!

[Rev.Vassago]

unless it is company policy (even though it is still log falsification).

Incorrect. And I don't feel like quoting the reg. You should KNOW better

Please tell me you are kidding. If you log 30 minutes for something that took only 15 minutes, that is log falsification. If you log 15 minutes for something that took 30 minutes, it is log falsification.

Either quote the reg or STFU. But irregardless, leave your personal attacks on other members out of this thread. Especially since those members haven't posted in this thread.

[golfhobo]

Please tell me you are kidding. If you log 30 minutes for something that took only 15 minutes, that is log falsification. If you log 15 minutes for something that took 30 minutes, it is log falsification.

Either quote the reg or STFU. But irregardless, leave your personal attacks on other members out of this thread. Especially since those members haven't posted in this thread.

Part 395: Hours of service of drivers*

NOTE: Driver’s record of duty status. The graph grid, when incorporated as part of any form used by a motor carrier, must be of sufficient size to be legible.


The following executed specimen grid illustrates how a driver’s duty status should be recorded for a trip from Richmond, Virginia, to Newark, New Jersey. The grid reflects the midnight to midnight 24 hour period.

Graph Grid (midnight to midnight operation).

NOTE:The driver in this instance reported for duty at the motor carrier’s terminal. The driver reported for work at 6 a.m., helped load, checked with dispatch, made a pretrip inspection, and performed other duties until 7:30 a.m. when the driver began driving.

This is just ONE example of how ALL on duty time surrounding a pretrip, before one actually begins driving should be logged.

I don't feel like finding and quoting the reg that says that a COMPANY can make policies that exceed FMCSA rules. If a COMPANY wants you to log 30 minutes for a PTI (and related activities) on line 4 before going to line 3 and beginning to drive, the FMCSA has NO PROBLEM with that!

Now YOU can STFU!!!

BTW.... there is no such word as IRregardless!

And please do tell me how saying that Mythbuster's replies are often "nonresponsive," as MANY here have agreed they are, is a personal attack on him.

And, I guess the fact that you permabanned SteveBooth makes it okay for you to launch your continued "personal attacks" on HIM! (Again, I don't feel like finding the threads/posts and quoting them.... but, you KNOW you have done so!)

Now, I don't care about how you moderate this board. And I won't question how you do it [because I CAN'T!] But, just man to man.... I'm telling you that you need to get that stick out of your butt! It's getting in the way of me putting my foot up there!

Now, you can call that a personal attack, or a "physical threat" if you want to.... but, we all know it is NOT. This is just the INTERNET, Rev! You can do a FINE job of moderating here, if you'll just look up the root word "moderate." [Actually, it is MODE, which brings up a whole new set of questions.]

And, before you ban me, I just want to say that I take offense to you telling me to STFU! I have a RIGHT to say "most" things that I want to here, as long as they don't break the TOS, and I don't even let members of my FAMILY tell me to shut up!

This post, and/or ME, will probably disappear in 3-2-1....

[Mackman]

Looks like this will be a good show folks. Pull up a chair.

[golfhobo]

Looks like this will be a good show folks. Pull up a chair.

I DOUBT it, Mackman. Rev is obviously driving his 50 miles per day right now, and hasn't seen this yet.

The "old days" of fights between me and the poster we USED to know as the REV are basically gone and over! He has "unilateraly" disarmed ME (and others) while simultaneously increasing his nuclear stockpile.

Bury my heart at Wounded Knee! I am forced to bring ONLY a knife to a GUNFIGHT.

George Bush is dead! Long live Napoleon!

[BigDiesel]

I DOUBT it, Mackman. Rev is obviously driving his 50 miles per day right now, and hasn't seen this yet.

The "old days" of fights between me and the poster we USED to know as the REV are basically gone and over! He has "unilateraly" disarmed ME (and others) while simultaneously increasing his nuclear stockpile.

Bury my heart at Wounded Knee! I am forced to bring ONLY a knife to a GUNFIGHT.

George Bush is dead! Long live Napoleon!

Clear out your mailbox !!! You have mail !!! An interesting link you can use and enjoy.

[BigDiesel]

Looks like this will be a good show folks. Pull up a chair.

There will be no show... Those days are long gone, and it is sad.

[Mackman]

There will be no show... Those days are long gone, and it is sad.

WTF i was hoping for a good one.

[Rev.Vassago]

This is just ONE example of how ALL on duty time surrounding a pretrip, before one actually begins driving should be logged.

That's right - and it shows that the driver logged it as it happened.

I don't feel like finding and quoting the reg that says that a COMPANY can make policies that exceed FMCSA rules. If a COMPANY wants you to log 30 minutes for a PTI (and related activities) on line 4 before going to line 3 and beginning to drive, the FMCSA has NO PROBLEM with that!

Prove it or STFU. You've proven absolutely nothing yet. If a driver does a PTI in 15 minutes, and begins driving, and is pulled over shortly thereafter, if he isn't on line 3, he is falsifying his log. I don't care what his company policy is. If the company says he should log 30 minutes for a PTI, then the PTI better take him 30 minutes.

BTW.... there is no such word as IRregardless!

irregardless: Definition from Answers.com

Yet another way that you are wrong.

And please do tell me how saying that Mythbuster's replies are often "nonresponsive," as MANY here have agreed they are, is a personal attack on him.

Because he hasn't posted to this thread, and it's clear you are trying to bait him into a fight.

And, I guess the fact that you permabanned SteveBooth makes it okay for you to launch your continued "personal attacks" on HIM! (Again, I don't feel like finding the threads/posts and quoting them.... but, you KNOW you have done so!)

I didn't permaban Steve Booth. Twilight Flyer did. He is not a member here, and as such, I am not attacking a member.

Now, I don't care about how you moderate this board.

Yes you do, as evidenced by your continued whining about it.

And I won't question how you do it [because I CAN'T!] But, just man to man.... I'm telling you that you need to get that stick out of your butt! It's getting in the way of me putting my foot up there!

Now, you can call that a personal attack, or a "physical threat" if you want to.... but, we all know it is NOT. This is just the INTERNET, Rev! You can do a FINE job of moderating here, if you'll just look up the root word "moderate." [Actually, it is MODE, which brings up a whole new set of questions.]

And, before you ban me, I just want to say that I take offense to you telling me to STFU! I have a RIGHT to say "most" things that I want to here, as long as they don't break the TOS, and I don't even let members of my FAMILY tell me to shut up!

STFU. STFU. STFU. STFU.

This post, and/or ME, will probably disappear in 3-2-1....

I DOUBT it, Mackman. Rev is obviously driving his 50 miles per day right now, and hasn't seen this yet.

Actually, I was flying between Ft. Lauderdale and Detroit.

The "old days" of fights between me and the poster we USED to know as the REV are basically gone and over! He has "unilateraly" disarmed ME (and others) while simultaneously increasing his nuclear stockpile.

Please cite any example of how I have "disarmed" you.

[Rev.Vassago]

And on another note, I'd like to add that the "Rev's a moderator so he's disarming me in any argument" claim is not only getting old, but it's extremely lame.

[golfhobo]

Rev.Vassago said:

That's right - and it shows that the driver logged it as it happened.

No... it shows that the driver logged 1.5 hours of on duty time as a "pretrip." Which, although the regs don't require an explanation, since he GAVE one, is a "falsification" (according to you) because he didn't spend the whole time doing a pretrip.

Prove it or STFU. You've proven absolutely nothing yet. If a driver does a PTI in 15 minutes, and begins driving, and is pulled over shortly thereafter, if he isn't on line 3, he is falsifying his log. I don't care what his company policy is. If the company says he should log 30 minutes for a PTI, then the PTI better take him 30 minutes.

I didn't say anything about him DRIVING before his 30 minute PTI was over! And there is NO reg or company policy that I know of that says a company REQUIRES you to make your PTI last 30 minutes EVEN if they require you to log it as so. A company has a RIGHT (under FMCSA regs) to require you to LOG 30 minutes for a PTI if they so choose.

irregardless: Definition from Answers.com

Yet another way that you are wrong.

Okay, it IS a "word" ONLY because dumbchits like you keep using it. But your own link clearly shows that it is a bastardization of two CORRECT English words, and that it is a double negative.

Webster’s New International Dictionary (2nd. Ed. Unabridged) described the word as an erroneous or humorous form of regardless, and attributed it to the United States (and the Rev. Vassago.)

Because he hasn't posted to this thread, and it's clear you are trying to bait him into a fight.

And you would be wrong again. I actually believed that HE would be familiar with the regs I didn't feel like looking up, that would support my claim that company policies can trump FMCSA regs as long as they don't INHIBIT them. I thought he might tell you this "off camera" so to speak, to save you the embarrassment, while I was certain that IF he responded here, he would probably quote some Migrant Farm Workers reg or Safestats that were not pertinent.

I didn't permaban Steve Booth. Twilight Flyer did. He is not a member here, and as such, I am not attacking a member.

I FIGURED you would say as much, and in fact, I SAID so! "YOU" the collective MODS did exactly as I said. And YOU, personally, have done exactly as I said.

Yes you do, as evidenced by your continued whining about it.

I'm not whining about it. I'm simply saying that I can no longer have a face to face fight with YOU, because YOU always "pre-empt" with some statement like "deal with it or go elsewhere, or questioning the moderation is not acceptable"

But, while we're ON the subject.... Neither I, nor several others, EVER said a "whining" word (in your opinion) about the moderation of this board BEFORE. And yet, by your own testimony, the rules have not been changed. So.... what does that say? Rules are the same, yet suddenly some of us have a problem with them? I wonder WHAT has changed? In the immortal words of the noble WOT.... "are you DAFT, man?"

STFU. STFU. STFU. STFU.

KMA, KMA, KMA, and GFY!!!

Actually, I was flying between Ft. Lauderdale and Detroit.

Who cares?

Please cite any example of how I have "disarmed" you.

Gladly.... when I have TIME, and IF they haven't mysteriously disappeared!

You've "erased" more evidence than NIXON did!

[BigDiesel]

Gladly.... when I have TIME, and IF they haven't mysteriously disappeared!

You've "erased" more evidence than NIXON did!

My new favorite is the APU thread.....

[Rev.Vassago]

No... it shows that the driver logged 1.5 hours of on duty time as a "pretrip." Which, although the regs don't require an explanation, since he GAVE one, is a "falsification" (according to you) because he didn't spend the whole time doing a pretrip.

I looked at the example page, and nowhere on it does it say "pretrip". It says he spent 1.5 hours on duty in Richmond, VA. It does not say how much of that 1.5 hours on duty was the pretrip, and everything the driver did during that 1.5 hours (according to the example) was line 4 time. Therefore it was not a falsification of the log.

I didn't say anything about him DRIVING before his 30 minute PTI was over! And there is NO reg or company policy that I know of that says a company REQUIRES you to make your PTI last 30 minutes EVEN if they require you to log it as so. A company has a RIGHT (under FMCSA regs) to require you to LOG 30 minutes for a PTI if they so choose.

And the FMCSA regulations require you to log it as you do it. And as I stated originally:

The FMCSA does not designate a set period of time that must be shown. You need to show however long it takes you. If it doesn't take you 30 minutes, then there is no reason to show 30 minutes, unless it is company policy (even though it is still log falsification). If it takes you 30 minutes, and you show 15, that's log falsification too.

You are attempting to take what I said out of context. If a driver does a 15 minute PTI, and logs it as 30 minutes because of company policy, it is log falsification. If the company requires a 30 minute PTI to be logged, then the PTI should take 30 minutes. But whatever - go ahead and take it out of context, I don't really care.

But, while we're ON the subject.... Neither I, nor several others, EVER said a "whining" word (in your opinion) about the moderation of this board BEFORE. And yet, by your own testimony, the rules have not been changed. So.... what does that say? Rules are the same, yet suddenly some of us have a problem with them? I wonder WHAT has changed?

Nothing has changed, other than the person enforcing those rules. And it's clear, and has been clear since I was given the job, that a select few here have a problem with who has been given the job of enforcing the rules. But again - whatever. I don't really care. And I'm not going to sit and babysit anymore, and I'm not going to edit out anything from anyone's posts anymore. Then when things go to hell in a handbasket as a result, and I start once again getting message after message about the personal attacks that are destroying the board, I will personally blame you.

[Hawkjr]

Nothing has changed, other than the person enforcing those rules. And it's clear, and has been clear since I was given the job, that a select few here have a problem with who has been given the job of enforcing the rules. But again - whatever. I don't really care. And I'm not going to sit and babysit anymore, and I'm not going to edit out anything from anyone's posts anymore. Then when things go to hell in a handbasket as a result, and I start once again getting message after message about the personal attacks that are destroying the board, I will personally blame you.

i will say the only person that need to go from this forum was CFM/LBJ.. even tho what he was saying was right its was getting down right boring hearing him destroy threads with his coolie carriers rant.. Hell Belpre has the same thoughts but at least not every post is not about lay over pay and spending weekends in the truck stop... and you did the right thing by banning him..

NOW, if a grown ass man has to email another grown ass man to get another grown man off his back OVER THE INTERNET.. THEN THAT GROWN ASS MAN IS NOT SO GROWN NOW IS HE!! if i was you i tell him to grow a set.. Come on rev we're Truck Drivers!!! Of course your going to have asses on here... don't you listen to the BS over Ch. 19 !! Your doing a decent job moderating but just let us go at it time to time until death threats are tossed around !!

[Rev.Vassago]

don't you listen to the BS over Ch. 19

Nope.

[Myth_Buster]

GH:

I didn't say anything about him DRIVING before his 30 minute PTI was over! And there is NO reg or company policy that I know of that says a company REQUIRES you to make your PTI last 30 minutes EVEN if they require you to log it as so. A company has a RIGHT (under FMCSA regs) to require you to LOG 30 minutes for a PTI if they so choose.

Subpart A—General applicability and definitions
§390.3 General applicability.

(d) Additional requirements. Nothing in Subchapter B of this chapter shall be construed to prohibit an employer from requiring and enforcing more stringent requirements relating to safety of operation and employee safety and health.

There are no rules that stipulate how long a driver must record for a PTI; however, as the Rev says; if the driver logged 30 minutes then the driver must have used 30 minutes to take care of business before driving.

I've gotten to the point of believing a log is false for fuel stops less than 15 minutes. If a driver was to do everything they were required to a fuel stop would be at least 15 minutes:

1. Catch up log
2. Check vehicle
3. Check load
4. Fuel vehicle
5. Pay for fuel (even pay at the pump has a receipt)
6. Fill out log

Then 15 minutes have passed:

Subpart A—General

§392.7 Equipment, inspection and use.

No commercial motor vehicle shall be driven unless the driver is satisfied that the following parts and accessories are in good working order, nor shall any driver fail to use or make use of such parts and accessories when and as needed:

Service brakes, including trailer brake connections.

Parking (hand) brake.

Steering mechanism.

Lighting devices and reflectors.

Tires.

Horn.

Windshield wiper or wipers.

Rear-vision mirror or mirrors.

Coupling devices.

§392.9 Inspection of cargo, cargo securement devices and systems.

(a) General. A driver may not operate a commercial motor vehicle and a motor carrier may not require or permit a driver to operate a commercial motor vehicle unless—

(b) Drivers of trucks and truck tractors. Except as provided in paragraph (b)(4) of this section, the driver of a truck or truck tractor must—

(b)(1) Assure himself/herself that the provisions of paragraph (a) of this section have been complied with before he/she drives that commercial motor vehicle;

(b)(2) Inspect the cargo and the devices used to secure the cargo within the first 50 miles after beginning a trip and cause any adjustments to be made to the cargo or load securement devices as necessary, including adding more securement devices, to ensure that cargo cannot shift on or within, or fall from the commercial motor vehicle; and

(b)(3) Reexamine the commercial motor vehicle’s cargo and its load securement devices during the course of transportation and make any necessary adjustment to the cargo or load securement devices, including adding more securement devices, to ensure that cargo cannot shift on or within, or fall from, the commercial motor vehicle. Reexamination and any necessary adjustments must be made whenever—

(b)(3)(i) The driver makes a change of his/her duty status; or

(b)(3)(ii) The commercial motor vehicle has been driven for 3 hours; or

(b)(3)(iii) The commercial motor vehicle has been driven for 150 miles, whichever occurs first.

(b)(4) The rules in this paragraph (b) do not apply to the driver of a sealed commercial motor vehicle who has been ordered not to open it to inspect its cargo or to the driver of a commercial motor vehicle that has been loaded in a manner that makes inspection of its cargo impracticable.

Be safe.