Dumb drivers...

[Myth_Buster]

It continues to amaze me with what drivers believe they can get away with...

On 12/04/2008 at 10:11 AM west of Houston, TX a driver is placed OOS for a 11/14 hour rule violation.

On 12/04/2008 the same driver is placed OOS near Baton Rouge, LA at 5:27 PM for an 11/14 hour rule violation.

Do you believe the driver could have served the eight hours off-duty and still drive from Houston, TX to Baton Rouge, LA?

If so I have a bridge in San Francisco for sale.

The driver lost his job today, the O/O who owns the truck had the lease terminated as it was discovered the office lady was doing the logs before sending them in to the carrier the driver/vehicle was leased to. Oh by the way, the issue with the logs being recreated was discovered when the office lady mailed the driver's original logs and her recreated logs together.

Merry Christmas.....

Drivers please don't be irresponsible, it only takes once and you loose.

The driver will receive a letter from the DOT in about three weeks for his decision to run the OOS order.... Happy New Year....

Oh well some day.....

Be safe.

[belpre122]

... Happy New Year....

Oh well some day.....

Be safe.

Sooner.........rather than later. It's going to be one helluva a wake up call for these criminals.

My good friend (a deputy sheriff) sees it all. Including recently:

A driver that had the nerve to show him a log book which showed that the driver was in Little Rock, AR, just 4 hours previous to this traffic stop in Indianapolis.

He recently witnessed at 53' van driver make an illegal u-turn, and initiated a traffic stop. The driver was from Poland. Was driving out of California. Spoke no English......and oh yeah, no CDL, or valid US drivers license of any type.
-------------------------
Yep Myth_Buster, they think that it is all fun and games. Yee Haw! Straight out of the tune "Convoy." Until it all goes horribly and irretrievably wrong in a flash. Then they expect mercy in front of the judge. Same play.....just different actors.

The sooner that EOBRs are mandatory for all CMVs, the better. EOBRs might only be a small step, but they are a step in the right direction.

[mike3fan]

The sooner that EOBRs are mandatory for all CMVs, the better. EOBRs might only be a small step, but they are a step in the right direction.

for who? stupid drivers will still be stupid.

who's gonna pay for this?

[vavega]

EOBR's? ok bel, get out of your guvamint mode and tell me what that stands for.

electronic overtheroad billybig riggers?

[zipy46]

Would Black Box bring a halt to the double standard that many of these trucking companies have the luxury of operating in and around.

Drivers end up behaving like crimminals.....yet the companies seem somewhat immune.

If took for example all the logs turned in for one year...compared them to the Qualcomm data it would show probably more than half

of the trucking companies revenue was ill gotten by HOS standards.

The face these companies 'put on' is the double standard i am referring to.

[Rev.Vassago]

Would Black Box bring a halt to the double standard that many of these trucking companies have the luxury of operating in and around.

Drivers end up behaving like crimminals.....yet the companies seem somewhat immune.

If took for example all the logs turned in for one year...compared them to the Qualcomm data it would show probably more than half

of the trucking companies revenue was ill gotten by HOS standards.

The face these companies 'put on' is the double standard i am referring to.

Companies are only immune until the FMCSA shows up at their doorstep and starts imposing fines. But I understand where you are coming from - the reward for allowing drivers to log illegally can far outweigh the penalties.

[GMAN]

Would Black Box bring a halt to the double standard that many of these trucking companies have the luxury of operating in and around.

Drivers end up behaving like crimminals.....yet the companies seem somewhat immune.

If took for example all the logs turned in for one year...compared them to the Qualcomm data it would show probably more than half

of the trucking companies revenue was ill gotten by HOS standards.

The face these companies 'put on' is the double standard i am referring to.

If companies checked all logs all the time and did their comparisons on each log turned in then it would increase their cost of doing business way too much. Much of the cost we incur as a carrier goes for compliance issues. It is still the responsibility of the driver to make sure that he runs compliant. For those who think the EOBR's are a great idea you don't have to pay for them. You also may not like the cost to your paycheck should this come to pass. Some of these ideas, such as EOBR's, may sound good on paper, for those who must comply with dealing with them it could be a nightmare. None of these so called safety concerned citizen groups seem to understand that everyone has a different body clock. Just like the hos rules, it encourages falsification to work around the driver's body clock. I doesn't matter what the hos says, if the driver is tired then he needs to rest. We need to throw the logs away and treat this like any other profession. If we get tired, we rest. We don't attempt to work around some electronic monitoring system to get our job done. We use common sense. Oops! I forgot, common sense doesn't come into play in this business.

[golfhobo]

My good friend (a deputy sheriff) sees it all. Including recently:

A driver that had the nerve to show him a log book which showed that the driver was in Little Rock, AR, just 4 hours previous to this traffic stop in Indianapolis.

He recently witnessed at 53' van driver make an illegal u-turn, and initiated a traffic stop. The driver was from Poland. Was driving out of California. Spoke no English......and oh yeah, no CDL, or valid US drivers license of any type.

Sorry, Bel.... no reflection on YOU.... but, I don't believe EITHER of these "stories" your good friend told you! LEO's tell bigger stories than truckers!

Most drivers that "cheat" their logs, do so in a retroactive manner. IOW, they would back up their logs to allow MORE time, not LESS, to make a trip. And most Polish citizens speak very good English, and could NEVER have gotten a job driving a truck in America without a license and the ability to ASK for the job in English. Sorry..... just don't BUY IT! IF, and I repeat IF, a Polish immigrant in California could get ANY job driving a truck with no licence or CDL, I doubt seriously that that "outlaw" company would have him driving across state lines all the way to Indiana!

Naw.... just TOO much BS for me to swallow!

[Myth_Buster]

Rev:

Companies are only immune until the FMCSA shows up at their doorstep and starts imposing fines. But I understand where you are coming from - the reward for allowing drivers to log illegally can far outweigh the penalties.

The economic impact far outweighs the penalties. Carriers with a less than satisfactory rating can no longer remain self insured. Carriers with less than satisfactory ratings loose valuable customers. Carriers with less than satisfactory ratings pay higher insurance premiums.

Procedures have been developed to pierce the corporate veil for carriers that shut down operation “A” to become operation “B”. Once the veil is pierced the new company inherits the old company’s SAFESTAT information and is prosecuted for running the OOS order.

GMAN:

If companies checked all logs all the time and did their comparisons on each log turned in then it would increase their cost of doing business way too much.

There’s no need to check every driver… Every roadside inspection performed is available to the public at A & I a carrier’s problem drivers have already been identified. Carriers are at a much greater advantage when it comes to checking for false logs as the carrier knows what the driver’s activities are.

Much of the cost we incur as a carrier goes for compliance issues.

How much profit is lost from drivers/vehicles being placed OOS? Isn’t there an obligation to provide reliable customer service? Couldn’t safety be directly tied to customer service?

Seems to me it’s money well spent.

It is still the responsibility of the driver to make sure that he runs compliant.

It’s also the carrier’s responsibility to ensure the driver has the hours to operate BEFORE they offer the driver the load.

For those who think the EOBR's are a great idea you don't have to pay for them. You also may not like the cost to your paycheck should this come to pass. Some of these ideas, such as EOBR's, may sound good on paper, for those who must comply with dealing with them it could be a nightmare.

Frito Lay has used EORBs since at least 1993.

Seems to me many carriers want the “Don’t ask, don’t tell philosophy regarding HOS. Carriers want to bury their head in the sand and ignore drivers’ false logs.

None of these so called safety concerned citizen groups seem to understand that everyone has a different body clock. Just like the hos rules, it encourages falsification to work around the driver's body clock. I doesn't matter what the hos says, if the driver is tired then he needs to rest.

Most modes of transportation have HOS for the person responsible for other’s safety:

Pilots:

An Airline Pilot is only permitted to fly 100 Flying Hours in any 28 day period by law. The maximum time on duty allowed normally is 14 hours. If delays occur up to 16 hours may be worked. Depending on the type of Airline and Route structure will determine the actual hours. Some Airline Pilots for example work six days working three

Railroad Employees:

For the first time ever the Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) will have authority to regulate railroad worker hours of service and will provide greater focus on risk reduction to improve safety in the railroad industry under a rail safety reauthorization bill submitted to the Congress today, announced FRA Administrator Joseph H. Boardman.

Truckers are no different, without some maximum standards set drivers would go totally ape.

We need to throw the logs away and treat this like any other profession. If we get tired, we rest. We don't attempt to work around some electronic monitoring system to get our job done. We use common sense. Oops! I forgot, common sense doesn't come into play in this business.

Gman you’re funny.

GOLFHOBO:

And most Polish citizens speak very good English, and could NEVER have gotten a job driving a truck in America without a license and the ability to ASK for the job in English.

Yeah, there are no carriers in the greater Chicago area that have Polish speaking dispatchers; the FMCSA revised their policy for OOS and developed a standard operational tests to tests drivers’ ability to speak English before placing them OOS. Naw, there isn’t a problem with non-English speaking drivers.

Sorry..... just don't BUY IT! IF, and I repeat IF, a Polish immigrant in California could get ANY job driving a truck with no licence or CDL, I doubt seriously that that "outlaw" company would have him driving across state lines all the way to Indiana!

Yeah, there’s no way a small fleet owner would hire an illegal alien and have them drive cross country without a CDL. Much as the carrier interviewed and when asked for payroll records it was explained they were six months behind on payroll. Turns out the drivers were indentured servants who were smuggled into the US and now driving truck. Naw there was no CDL scandal where several state employees were prosecuted for selling CDLs to people. Every one is above board and only hiring drivers with impeccable driving records.

Naw.... just TOO much BS for me to swallow!

Absolutely, keep your head buried in the sand. The carriers doing the things mentioned have no competitive edge and able to bid lower on freight than your employer. You are in no danger of losing your job and having to drive for some sleaze ball outfit for half the money you’re earning now.

Get a clue GH, the job you save maybe your own.

Be safe.

[belpre122]

Wow Golfhobo! You really are out of touch. I'm glad that I took the time to read on through and see where Myth_Buster straightened you out.

If you doubt the two stories that I put forth above. I issue an open invitation for you to come up here any time. Not only to meet my best friend "the deputy." But I am also sure that he would be more than happy to take you on a 'ride-along' for a shift. After a shift riding with him, I would love to hear say that you don't believe his stories.

You are bunk Golfhobo! Go back to your Line 5 pursuits!

[belpre122]

EOBR's? ok bel, get out of your guvamint mode and tell me what that stands for.

electronic overtheroad billybig riggers?

LOL vega! No in that particular case EOBR = Kevin0915

[Windwalker]

Sooner.........rather than later. It's going to be one helluva a wake up call for these criminals.

My good friend (a deputy sheriff) sees it all. Including recently:

A driver that had the nerve to show him a log book which showed that the driver was in Little Rock, AR, just 4 hours previous to this traffic stop in Indianapolis.

He recently witnessed at 53' van driver make an illegal u-turn, and initiated a traffic stop. The driver was from Poland. Was driving out of California. Spoke no English......and oh yeah, no CDL, or valid US drivers license of any type.
-------------------------
Yep Myth_Buster, they think that it is all fun and games. Yee Haw! Straight out of the tune "Convoy." Until it all goes horribly and irretrievably wrong in a flash. Then they expect mercy in front of the judge. Same play.....just different actors.

The sooner that EOBRs are mandatory for all CMVs, the better. EOBRs might only be a small step, but they are a step in the right direction.

I will support EOBRs, but only when they include a video loop that will show the activities of surrounding traffic. Until then, they can put them where the sun does not shine. Evidence that can be used in court when a 4-wheeler tries to pass just before a construction zone and runs into the concrete wall, then tries to sue the carrier and driver for damages as a result of the insane and suicidal meneuver he/she tried, and things like that. Additional benefit beyond compliance.

[Orangetxguy]

I will support EOBRs, but only when they include a video loop that will show the activities of surrounding traffic. Until then, they can put them where the sun does not shine. Evidence that can be used in court when a 4-wheeler tries to pass just before a construction zone and runs into the concrete wall, then tries to sue the carrier and driver for damages as a result of the insane and suicidal meneuver he/she tried, and things like that. Additional benefit beyond compliance.

There are several Private Carriers out there that are running just such systems WW. Unfortunately they are using them more to "hammer on" the drivers of the trucks, than they are to educate or "hammer on" outside offenders.

I have a friend that was working at ARCO/BP in Seattle until last year, when they installed that system. He was called into the Truck Boss' office about three weeks after tha system was installed and repromanded for cursing during a hard braking occurance..due to a SUV short braking him at highway speed. James got upset over the reprimand...and flipped off the camera and cursed into it while doing his pretrip. His rant was directed at the "Hewitt" employee in Houston whom had reviewed the tape, and forwarded her disapproval of the cursing during the hard brake episode.

James was fired after he drove around to the load rack...because "Hewitt" was watching him live as he did the pretrip. CS-BS at it's finest. If BP wants Nuns delivering their fuel...they better fill all those "Outside Carrier" trucks that they are contracting with for fuel delivery, with Nuns.

Sentinel Transportation is another private carrier that is installing that system. I think I saw a multi-camera set-up, in some Wal-Mart trucks out in CA a couple weeks ago...but I'm not certain.

[belpre122]

I will support EOBRs, but only when they include a video loop that will show the activities of surrounding traffic. Until then, they can put them where the sun does not shine. Evidence that can be used in court when a 4-wheeler tries to pass just before a construction zone and runs into the concrete wall, then tries to sue the carrier and driver for damages as a result of the insane and suicidal meneuver he/she tried, and things like that. Additional benefit beyond compliance.

I'm with ya there WW. A friend of mine wrote a statement on behalf of a BP driver not too long ago regarding a situation very similar to the one you mention above. Of course, none of this could be seen with the on board camera system. The driver from another company wrote a statement and the BP driver was absolved of any wrongdoing. So much good that did for him..............BP Indianapolis gave all of their drivers pink slips about 2 weeks ago...........all of their trucks are now gone, along with the drivers.

[belpre122]

I think I saw a multi-camera set-up, in some Wal-Mart trucks out in CA a couple weeks ago...but I'm not certain.

How can we ever forget this Wal-Mart on-board footage?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS00hb3zsVU

[zipy46]

come to think of it...the Black Box might put a stop on those dispatchers that wont let up when you say

you are out of hours and cannot make the pickup by the time given.

It would reinforce 'No' to actually mean 'No'

That Donner crash was ugly !!!!!!!!!!!

[golfhobo]

Wow Golfhobo! You really are out of touch. I'm glad that I took the time to read on through and see where Myth_Buster straightened you out.

If you doubt the two stories that I put forth above. I issue an open invitation for you to come up here any time. Not only to meet my best friend "the deputy." But I am also sure that he would be more than happy to take you on a 'ride-along' for a shift. After a shift riding with him, I would love to hear say that you don't believe his stories.

You are bunk Golfhobo! Go back to your Line 5 pursuits!

BUNK?? Wow...what a lexicon you have!

MythBuster has YET to "straighten me out" on anything I've questioned him on. Most of his answers are OFF TOPIC, confusing, and unrelated. I DO have a certain respect for him, but I am not yet impressed.

As for your "best friend" the deputy.... I didn't mean to get personal. I just know I've heard as many "stories" from them as I have heard from truckers.... some on THIS board. As for meeting him, I fear he might be a buzzkill during our line 5 time.

But, I would love to do a "ride-along" with him. Unfortunately, I fear that when it was over, HE may be much more confused or skeptical than I. I'm not really sure he is "UP TO IT."

Seriously Bell, I would LOVE the chance to spend a day or less with an LEO on the road. I believe we would have MUCH to talk about, and I'm sure that when it was over, we would BOTH have learned something! Assuming, of course, that he could MANAGE to have an open mind. To START with, I would like to know why he doesn't pull drivers who break the law by not using headlights whenever they use wipers! IMHO, possibly the most dangerous of ALL activities that 4wheelers do!

In fact, why don't YOU ask him that, BEl? And get back to me with the "bunk" he gives you for an anwer!

As for the "invitation," I WILL make it a point someday SOON! I would love to meet you (and your friends.) But, I'm waiting until you guys clear the roads up there!

[Rev.Vassago]

MythBuster has YET to "straighten me out" on anything I've questioned him on. Most of his answers are OFF TOPIC, confusing, and unrelated. I DO have a certain respect for him, but I am not yet impressed.

He isn't here to "impress" you. He is simply here to pass on his legitimate knowledge of the FMCSA regs, since he has enforced those regs far longer than you have driven a truck.

[Double R]

He isn't here to "impress" you. He is simply here to pass on his legitimate knowledge of the FMCSA regs, since he has enforced those regs far longer than you have driven a truck.

But the question is: Is Mythbuster enforcing the regs or the SPIRIT of the regs?

[Rev.Vassago]

But the question is: Is Mythbuster enforcing the regs or the SPIRIT of the regs?

I bet it depends upon what time of the year it is. Around Halloween, I bet the "spirit" runs rampant. Of course, if he is on line 5, I suppose those "spirits" could play a part as well.