Ethical Question

[StevenD]

My route is close to the 14 hour limit, with stops. I run at night so obviously, with family & kids at home, my sleep is often interupted. So when I get sleepy, which happens a couple times a week, the wisest thing to do is pull over for a quick nap. This is always refreshing as most know. But it also counts against me (HOS) and puts me over hours.

For me, the best thing I can do for the safety of my equipment, myself, and others on the road is to pull over when I (or anyone) is sleepy. Even a fifteen minute walk or break to revive oneself can put more time on the clock and put you over. We had a driver placed out of service a week ago because of this fifteen minutes over, and the company told it it was 'his responsibility' to pay the ticket.

My point is, even if the law mandates our 14 hour limit, I am going to stop when I feel I am dangerous, and alter my logbook accordingly. Its a no-win situation with respect to the law.

Steven

Any comments?

[Jumbo]

I know what I would do, But I can't tell you what to do.

[Rat]

I know exactally were you are coming from.

I run into this myself were my eyes feel like they have gravel in them and can't keep them open. I need to pull over for a 30 min power nap or even an hour.

Doctoring can help as long as you do not have time stamped proof of fueling times, loading times or have been entered into the system via scales or border crossings.

[StevenD]

Thanks for the responses. As we know, those making the laws are in the dark regarding what it's like on the road. I have no issues with the DOT guys, they have it even tougher than we do when it comes to enforcing rules they know are full of flaws. I simply trust them to weed out the truckers who don't need to be driving, understanding that 'blanket laws' will sometimes catch those who are great drivers but in violation of some minute point.

It's a difficult situation. So as men (and women) who know that the HOS laws are lacking, what do we do? An organized slow-down or strike seems to be a thing of the past. A Political Action Committee is for those who have the time and resources. What are our options?

Steve

[SilverWulf]

Thanks for the responses. As we know, those making the laws are in the dark regarding what it's like on the road. I have no issues with the DOT guys, they have it even tougher than we do when it comes to enforcing rules they know are full of flaws. I simply trust them to weed out the truckers who don't need to be driving, understanding that 'blanket laws' will sometimes catch those who are great drivers but in violation of some minute point.

It's a difficult situation. So as men (and women) who know that the HOS laws are lacking, what do we do? An organized slow-down or strike seems to be a thing of the past. A Political Action Committee is for those who have the time and resources. What are our options?

Steve

Write letters to your congress critters, encourage all your friends and fellow drivers to do the same. Pay attention to the political climate and when the time is right make a push for more reasonable rules.

In the mean time, do your job to the best of your ability within the rules and regulations which currently exist.

[Fredog]

My route is close to the 14 hour limit, with stops. I run at night so obviously, with family & kids at home, my sleep is often interupted. So when I get sleepy, which happens a couple times a week, the wisest thing to do is pull over for a quick nap. This is always refreshing as most know. But it also counts against me (HOS) and puts me over hours.

For me, the best thing I can do for the safety of my equipment, myself, and others on the road is to pull over when I (or anyone) is sleepy. Even a fifteen minute walk or break to revive oneself can put more time on the clock and put you over. We had a driver placed out of service a week ago because of this fifteen minutes over, and the company told it it was 'his responsibility' to pay the ticket.

My point is, even if the law mandates our 14 hour limit, I am going to stop when I feel I am dangerous, and alter my logbook accordingly. Its a no-win situation with respect to the law.

Steven

Any comments?

what you fail to realize is that the people in Washington who have never even seen the inside of a truck know more than you do about when you are tired and when you need to stop and how long you need to rest, so just stop trying to decide for yourself when to rest and and listen to your goverment!!

[vavega]

i'm having a hard time following your logic that because your company has a run set up for you that is so close to the 14 hour rule that you're sometimes pressed to go over it, (caused by your home environment, personal body clock, or other unknown reason), somehow that makes the HOS laws lacking.

i don't see them as lacking at all. there are provisions for exceptions, just like in real life, there's always going to be a situation that calls for one. as a local driver (which i'm assuming you are, versus OTR) your exception is the 16 hour rule. also available to you is your employer releasing you from on duty status for things like lunch or dinner. i log my lunch off duty, and while it doesn't count toward the 14 it does toward the 70.

you never qualified if he was OOS for a 14 day violation or a 70

[Fredog]

i'm having a hard time following your logic that because your company has a run set up for you that is so close to the 14 hour rule that you're sometimes pressed to go over it, (caused by your home environment, personal body clock, or other unknown reason), somehow that makes the HOS laws lacking.

i don't see them as lacking at all. there are provisions for exceptions, just like in real life, there's always going to be a situation that calls for one. as a local driver (which i'm assuming you are, versus OTR) your exception is the 16 hour rule. also available to you is your employer releasing you from on duty status for things like lunch or dinner. i log my lunch off duty, and while it doesn't count toward the 14 it does toward the 70.

you never qualified if he was OOS for a 14 day violation or a 70

you need to read the new rules. you have it wrong

D-2. If a carrier allows a driver to log mealtime or similar activities as off-duty time, does that permit a driver to extend the 14-hour duty period?

No. Off-duty breaks during the day do not extend the workday to permit a driver to drive after the 14th consecutive hour on duty. However, time logged as off duty is not counted in calculating a driver's 60/70-hour on-duty limit.

[vavega]

sorry fred, when went back over and read it, i realize it sounds as though i mean the 1/2 hour off duty doesn't count toward your 14 hour total for the day when we all know it does. what i need to do is quit replying in notepad and copy and pasting thoughts back and forth. it gets me into trouble everytime. thanks!

[Fredog]

sorry fred, when went back over and read it, i realize it sounds as though i mean the 1/2 hour off duty doesn't count toward your 14 hour total for the day when we all know it does. what i need to do is quit replying in notepad and copy and pasting thoughts back and forth. it gets me into trouble everytime. thanks!

I thought you probably just said it wrong, but the Rev taught me to never miss an opportunity to point out someones mistakes

[Ridge Runner]

sorry fred, when went back over and read it, i realize it sounds as though i mean the 1/2 hour off duty doesn't count toward your 14 hour total for the day when we all know it does. what i need to do is quit replying in notepad and copy and pasting thoughts back and forth. it gets me into trouble everytime. thanks!

I thought you probably just said it wrong, but the Rev taught me to never miss an opportunity to point out someones mistakes

Ahhhhh....You must be one of those quick learners. :P

[Rawlco]

Hypothetically I would rather not fall asleep at the wheel, kill someone, but claim "the rules made me do it." So you can summarize that by saying I would rather be alive than be right. I can be right, dead right, but just as dead as if I was wrong.

Of course I would never ever run illegally. This is all hypothetical remember. :wink:

[GMAN]

You can always use the split sleeper berth provision. For it to work, you will need to take at least a 2 hour break in the sleeper berth.

[jd112488]

maybe you need to make the people at realize that if you do not get your sleep that maybe daddy won't be comming home. it is not the laws fault that you fail to get your rest at home. the laws are not flawed...you sleeping arangments are.

[Uturn2001]

You can always use the split sleeper berth provision. For it to work, you will need to take at least a 2 hour break in the sleeper berth.

Please explain how that would work since the two hour break does not stop the 14 hour clock. :wink:

[Rat]

maybe you need to make the people at realize that if you do not get your sleep that maybe daddy won't be comming home. it is not the laws fault that you fail to get your rest at home. the laws are not flawed...you sleeping arangments are.

That may be an idea for those that get to go home every night. Now for those that end up driving 11 hours a day along with using up 3 additional hours of on duty time this leaves us with 10 hours to shower shave, eat a hot meal, get in touch with the family for a few mins on the phone and try to get some sleep next to some stinky bull rack or some annoying straight piped tractor with the idle cranked way up so he can run his heater on a 60 degree night. Good luck getting a full nights rest.


Then add to your already worn out mind, driving in heavy wind on a hot day in loads of traffic.

I have run into many times were I just need to pull over and take a rest. Many times this may put me beyond my 14 hours.

The system is seriously flawed in my opinion and it tends to force drivers to drive when they should be taking a break.

We should be allowed some time during our 14 hour clock to go off duty for meal time and a possible rest to just get out of the truck and take a walk or what ever to get our energy back.

[jd112488]

if you got 10 hours off and you can't get enough sleep then you are flawed, or you surrent job is flawed. if you can't sleep ina truckstop sleep somewhere else. if you can't sleep ina truck period, look into gettting a local job that gets you home where you can sleep. or just don't worrry about your logbook and do what you gotta do, just don't be load about it when around a scalehouse, or be prepared to pay the price if you get caught.

[Double R]

You can always use the split sleeper berth provision. For it to work, you will need to take at least a 2 hour break in the sleeper berth.

Explain how that would work in a DAY CAB.

My route is close to the 14 hour limit, with stops. I run at night so obviously, with family & kids at home, my sleep is often interupted.

I would say that he is a LOCAL driver driving a DAY CAB.

[Rat]

I have a family at home myself and I have learned that it is alot harder to get a full 8 hours of sleep at home then anywere else.

You get home after a 14 hour day and have school age kids at home. The wife is pullign her hair out. You take your shower, get a meal in and then sit down for some quality time with the kids at the home work table for a bit, then the wife is nagging that she needs some one on one. Not to mention helping with things areound the house.

Next thing you know it is 12:00 AM and you need to be doing your PTI at 5 AM.

[got mud?]

You basically really only have a couple of options. I don't see the laws changing over night so here are your options as I see them (could be more or less)

1. have you talked to your boss about the run? maybe he isn't aware of how long it takes. often times people will complain about a job but keep doing it and never say anything expecting it to fix itself. If you have an idea that would cut the time down and save time and money for the company you'll look like a hero.

2. are there things your doing to stretch the time out. long breaks. fregent stops? long lunches? BSing at shippers and recievers when you should be driving?

3. Are you healthy? if your your fifty sixty pound over weight and you eat like crap, skip breakfast or eat fast food and wash it down with soda and get little or no exercise then I would venture this has more to do with your being tired during a 14 hour day than anything else.

4. finally you could find another job that fits your life style and sleeping habits better