Ethical Question

[StevenD]

I expected replys from drivers who seem to have it downpat; that the rules are LAW and we should follow them regardless. To those, you need to open your eyes and either remember when you were in a crap job or realize there are millions of drivers who do not have the option of "getting a better job" that allows them to follow the HOS. Millions! It is not an option for whatever reason. They are driven hard buy the owner of the company and FORCED to violate the HOS. It will take years of enduring the job they have until they have a good enough driving record for a 'good' company to even look at them.

It really gets to me when some drivers think the world of trucking fits into their world view. I would say they are limited in their experience, they have driven for a company for a long time, have it all figured out, but seriously lack when it comes to remembering what it was like at the beginning when they had to bust their butt before having enough seniority to move up to an easier route. The best companies (rated by our own message board) all have the same option; start with the most undesirable job then move to better ones as they get higher in seniority. Old Dominion for example, I've talked to the drivers at our local hub and it takes about ten years before you can get a local route and home every night.

As for the FMCSA, its like the education establishment, most (if not all) of the administrators have little time 'in the seat' yet they make these ridiculous rules that all must follow. If both administrations would listen to the drivers and teachers instead of paying them lip service, we would see effective changes, not brainy ideas and concepts.

Steve

[jd112488]

well steve, it seems to me taht you got it all figured out. i guess the only real question to ask is why did you ask the question? was it just to vent a little, or was it to really get some answers? you got some answers to the question and all it did was piss you off. don't ask for advice and the throw it back at the people that gave it to you because it is not what you wanted to hear. let me try to give you the answer that you want to hear.

you are right steve, the rules suck, and they need to be changed. i am really sorry to hear that you do not get enough rest on your ten hour break. that company needs to reaarange your run so you got more time to rest, and are not up against the clock every night. i can't beleive these companies that want to run people like that, it is a disgrace. and it need to stop.

now for the truth. do your time and get a better job. or try to get a better job now. or talk to the company to see if there is an easier run for you...just tell them you cannot handle that one with your home life. or you can single handedly try to change all fo the laws that are out there for drivers. i personally would like to see them go back to the 8 hour break, but you really would not like that.

[StevenD]

Theoretical questions are just that; a question. You are simply one of millions who have an opinion and I appreciate your response, but I certainly do not (will not) sum up the whole based upon one opinion. If remarks directed at your responses got under your skin, so be it. I still appreciate your response. Yeah, I got serious issues with the current HOS and there are to many applications to list where the HOS do not work for todays industry.

Regarding my own situation, yes, I have it figured out and there is little option, especially those you suggest. There are many more factors that play into the situation that I choose not to mention. I will point out that simply "finding another job" is something you can suggest to a newbie, not someone who has been around awhile. Many of us are in the best job we have ever had yet the HOS is what makes it difficult, NOT the job nor the company.

Regarding "pissing me off", you haven't the slightest idea.

[StevenD]

My intention is really not to offend or get into a pissing match with other drivers. The main point, and maybe I should have made it more clear, is to examine the areas that the HOS is flawed. We know all to well that the rules are hard to live by, so what do we do?

I submit that organizing a 'slow-down' is not going to be possible since too many are 'under the gun' and need our jobs too much to jeopardize it. Writing our congressman is an option that is viable, but the history of how this has worked should play into the discussion, being that it HAS NOT worked.

So what is next? How can we professional truck drivers make our voice heard? How can we get the government to put actual drivers on the committees that make laws such as the HOS? I have my own ideas but would like to hear from others.

Only now, here approaching 2009, do we (the trucking community) have researchers on our side to challenge the HOS in court regarding the HOS changes. Though I detest the ACLU, they have consistenly challenged the federal and state government through the courts to promote their own causes. Maybe this should be a hint at how we address the HOS?

Steve

[GMAN]

The major flaw with the current hos rules is that you cannot stop the clock once you start your work day. If you want to take a 1 hour lunch break, then that is 1 less hour you have to drive. If we could split the hours as we did before the current changes, and stop the clock, then they would work much better. There are too many self appointed safety people who have never sat it a truck, much less driven, who are making up the rules and pushing their own agenda. We don't really need the hos, but since they are not likely to go away, we need to make some incremental changes that would make more sense.

[vavega]

We don't really need the hos, but since they are not likely to go away, we need to make some incremental changes that would make more sense.

sorry gman, while i've agreed with you in the past, i can't agree with the highlighted part of this statement. the hos are needed simply because human nature being what it is, there will always be someone who will take it to the extreme by trying to drive for 20 hours to get that "hot" load to dallas in a day. somehow i don't think you really want to go back to those days. :wink:

really what's needed is 2 sets of hos rules. one for us in a day cab who can't get any rest during the day, and depend on 10 off to stay safe and sane, and the otr guys who can utilize a sleeper berth to maximize their ability to run and make money.

[belpre122]

i log my lunch off duty, and while it doesn't count toward the 14 it does toward the 70.

??????????????????????????HUH????????????????????? ??????????????????????

[vavega]

go back and read further :wink:

[belpre122]

Oh ok vavega! First thread that I read when I just woke up. I couldn't believe you were saying that. Guess you couldn't either. :wink:

Since I don't have to work until this evening, I think I'll go ahead and catch a few more winks myself!

Goes to show that sleepy truckers are a menace even at home on the internet! :P

[vavega]

pre-coffee reading and posting is dangerous. :wink:

enjoy your nap!

[StevenD]

This is what I'm looking for: A brilliant idea, though may need a bit of 'tweaking' as most of what comes from the feds do.

Very interesting, I need to ponder this some, but it hits right to one of the problems we have, that the feds are trying to put something as varied as our industry into a 'one size fits all' framework.

What say you?

Steve

[belpre122]

Very interesting, I need to ponder this some, but it hits right to one of the problems we have, that the feds are trying to put something as varied as our industry into a 'one size fits all' framework.

That is exactly what they have done Steve. Rather ridiculous when you think about it. These regulations are developed and implemented by bureaucrats with nothing more than their own Civil Service jobs/pensions in mind. They couldn't care less how it affects us. Senior Executive Staff GS/GM civil servants are the ones that feel the real pressure from the various groups. Sadly, when one has made it to that grade of civil service, that person is usually so tainted with history and under such political/industry pressure, that no real change is possible, as they are just another cog in the machine. Puppet heads, if you will.

What is the solution? Good question Steve. I see what you mean, and it would be great to see some sense made of this mess that is the current HOS.