Line 1 and line 2 Off duty - Sleeper Berth

[Rat]

What do you say?


I say that they are two completely different things. Sleeper berth is just a rest time and if the truck is loaded etc or I am waiting for a qualcom then I am actually not off duty since I am still responsible for the truck and its possible load.

Off Duty is for when the boss says park it and get a room or go home or go get something to eat etc. I am not responsible for the truck or its contents. I am away from the truck and can do as I please.


Can you be in your berth and still be off duty on line 1. Nope not in my opinion.

You 10 hour rest can be any combination of line 1 and line 2 but I stand to be corrected or missinformed if you so choose.

Debate ON

[matcat]

Line 2 is a form on off duty, it's what I was taught, it's what the regulations seem to say. As far as I am concerned if you are not specifically On Duty (Line 3 and 4), then you are off duty, there is no gray area here.

You state sleeper berth is only for when you are 'waiting' on a load or whatever, and line 1 is in a motel or whatever, what do you say to those that don't stay at motels, or the few that don't go home!

395.2
On duty time means all time from the time a driver begins to work or is required to be in readiness to work until the time the driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work. On duty time shall include:

(1) All time at a plant, terminal, facility, or other property of a motor carrier or shipper, or on any public property, waiting to be dispatched, unless the driver has been relieved from duty by the motor carrier;

(2) All time inspecting, servicing, or conditioning any commercial motor vehicle at any time;

(3) All driving time as defined in the term driving time;

(4) All time, other than driving time, in or upon any commercial motor vehicle except time spent resting in a sleeper berth;

Regulation 1 for my point state's in 395.2(b)4 that all time spent in the vehicle EXCEPT time spent in the sleeper is ON DUTY, but right there is the EXCEPTION, meaning not on duty, but off duty .

395.8(f)(11) Total hours. The total hours in each duty status: off duty other than in a sleeper berth; off duty in a sleeper berth; driving, and on duty not driving, shall be entered to the right of the grid, the total of such entries shall equal 24 hours.

395.8 clearly states that the sleeper berth is considered off duty.

395.8
(h)(1) Off duty. Except for time spent resting in a sleeper berth, a continuous line shall be drawn between the appropriate time markers to record the period(s) of time when the driver is not on duty, is not required to be in readiness to work, or is not under any responsibility for performing work.

(h)(2) Sleeper berth. A continuous line shall be drawn between the appropriate time markers to record the period(s) of time off duty resting in a sleeper berth, as defined in §395.2 (If a non-sleeper berth operation, sleeper berth need not be shown on the grid.)

Persionally I think 395.8(h)1 and 2 are quite clear, h2 specificies that sleeper berth is off duty, now as for why it says except sleeper berth in H1, and that is because while you are taking your 10 for example, you cannot just go from say 8pm to 6am in a continuous line if you use the berth, you must drop to line 2 to show when you did, but it clearly shows that the entire bulk of line 1 and 2 are OFF duty.

Now there are other regulations talking about sleeper berth, but they either aren't important to this discussion, or just redundant. Hope this paints a clear picture for everyone.

[Fredog]

What do you say?


I say that they are two completely different things. Sleeper berth is just a rest time and if the truck is loaded etc or I am waiting for a qualcom then I am actually not off duty since I am still responsible for the truck and its possible load.

Off Duty is for when the boss says park it and get a room or go home or go get something to eat etc. I am not responsible for the truck or its contents. I am away from the truck and can do as I please.


Can you be in your berth and still be off duty on line 1. Nope not in my opinion.

You 10 hour rest can be any combination of line 1 and line 2 but I stand to be corrected or missinformed if you so choose.

Debate ON

I say you can for the simple reason the rules say to be off duty, you need to be relieved of all duties and free to pursue whatever activities you desire, so if you want to get in your sleeper, you could do it while off duty.

this is only if you choose to be there, if your boss tells you to stay in your sleeper and wait for a load or whatever, then I agree, you could not legally be off duty.

boy, I cant wait for all the responses to this one! this is one of the greatest questions ever asked on here. Hats off to you.

[Rat]

Well the Berth can be used in conjuction with line 1 for legal rest periods or resets. But they must be logged as such.

When you are not in your berth then you are on line 1, when you are in your berth then you are in line 2.


So if you are in your berth sleeping then that is line 2 only. If you go into the truckstop then off to the local steak house for a few hours then you are in line 1.

Meaning you can't be in your berth and be logged into line 1 and you can't be at a friends house for the evening and be logged into line 2.

[matcat]

Well the Berth can be used in conjuction with line 1 for legal rest periods or resets. But they must be logged as such.

When you are not in your berth then you are on line 1, when you are in your berth then you are in line 2.


So if you are in your berth sleeping then that is line 2 only. If you go into the truckstop then off to the local steak house for a few hours then you are in line 1.

Meaning you can't be in your berth and be logged into line 1 and you can't be at a friends house for the evening and be logged into line 2.

Yes this is true, but the fact is you are still off duty in any of the situations. The regulations clearly state in multiple places that sleeper berth is an off duty status, and as a matter of fact, it is the ONLY way you can be off duty inside of your vehicle.

[Rev.Vassago]

The regulations clearly state in multiple places that sleeper berth is an off duty status, and as a matter of fact, it is the ONLY way you can be off duty inside of your vehicle.

Personal conveyance.

[matcat]

The regulations clearly state in multiple places that sleeper berth is an off duty status, and as a matter of fact, it is the ONLY way you can be off duty inside of your vehicle.

Personal conveyance.

Not once was personal conveyance mentioned in any of those regs.

[Rev.Vassago]

The regulations clearly state in multiple places that sleeper berth is an off duty status, and as a matter of fact, it is the ONLY way you can be off duty inside of your vehicle.

Personal conveyance.

Not once was personal conveyance mentioned in any of those regs.

Yes it was.

395.8 Driver's Record of Duty Status

Question 26: If a driver is permitted to use a CMV for personal reasons, how must the driving time be recorded?

Guidance: When a driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work, time spent traveling from a driver's home to his/her terminal (normal work reporting location), or from a driver's terminal to his/her home, may be considered off-duty time. Similarly, time spent traveling short distances from a driver's en route lodgings (such as en route terminals or motels) to restaurants in the vicinity of such lodgings may be considered off-duty time. The type of conveyance used from the terminal to the driver's home, from the driver's home to the terminal, or to restaurants in the vicinity of en route lodgings would not alter the situation unless the vehicle is laden. A driver may not operate a laden CMV as a personal conveyance. The driver who uses a motor carrier's CMV for transportation home, and is subsequently called by the employing carrier and is then dispatched from home, would be on-duty from the time the driver leaves home.

[matcat]

But sleeper berth is not mentioned in any of that, that is just saying if you are unlaiden you may drive while off duty for personal reasons such as going home, going to a restaurant from a motel, etc. But it has nothing to do with sleeper berth.

[Rev.Vassago]

But sleeper berth is not mentioned in any of that, that is just saying if you are unlaiden you may drive while off duty for personal reasons such as going home, going to a restaurant from a motel, etc. But it has nothing to do with sleeper berth.

I don't care. You said:

and as a matter of fact, it is the ONLY way you can be off duty inside of your vehicle.

Which is wrong.

[matcat]

But sleeper berth is not mentioned in any of that, that is just saying if you are unlaiden you may drive while off duty for personal reasons such as going home, going to a restaurant from a motel, etc. But it has nothing to do with sleeper berth.

I don't care. You said:

and as a matter of fact, it is the ONLY way you can be off duty inside of your vehicle.

Which is wrong.

Ok yeah there is one other exception

[Fredog]

But sleeper berth is not mentioned in any of that, that is just saying if you are unlaiden you may drive while off duty for personal reasons such as going home, going to a restaurant from a motel, etc. But it has nothing to do with sleeper berth.

I don't care. You said:

and as a matter of fact, it is the ONLY way you can be off duty inside of your vehicle.

Which is wrong.

you can also get in your truck and spend as much time in it doing whatever you want (except driving it unless for above stated purposes) when you are off duty
if you are off duty at a friends house or a motel and you decide to go sleep in the truck, it's fine, you are still off duty.

[Rev.Vassago]

you can also get in your truck and spend as much time in it doing whatever you want (except driving it unless for above stated purposes) when you are off duty

Nope. The regs are very clear that other than the personal conveyance exception, all time spent in a CMV is either On Duty or Sleeper Berth.

if you are off duty at a friends house or a motel and you decide to go sleep in the truck, it's fine, you are still off duty.

Nope. Then you would be logging sleeper berth time. All time spent in a sleeper berth must be logged as sleeper berth time. There are no exceptions to that.

[BigDiesel]

Since rules and regs make my eyes glaze over.... here is what we do. Since fuel is so high, I now require my other driver, future driver and myself to get a motel room for our 10 hours off. This is logged on line uno.

[matcat]

you can also get in your truck and spend as much time in it doing whatever you want (except driving it unless for above stated purposes) when you are off duty

Nope. The regs are very clear that other than the personal conveyance exception, all time spent in a CMV is either On Duty or Sleeper Berth.

if you are off duty at a friends house or a motel and you decide to go sleep in the truck, it's fine, you are still off duty.

Nope. Then you would be logging sleeper berth time. All time spent in a sleeper berth must be logged as sleeper berth time. There are no exceptions to that.

The point is sleeper berth is still 'off duty' it might not BE on line 1, but it is still an off duty status.

[Rat]

you can also get in your truck and spend as much time in it doing whatever you want (except driving it unless for above stated purposes) when you are off duty

Nope. The regs are very clear that other than the personal conveyance exception, all time spent in a CMV is either On Duty or Sleeper Berth.

if you are off duty at a friends house or a motel and you decide to go sleep in the truck, it's fine, you are still off duty.

Nope. Then you would be logging sleeper berth time. All time spent in a sleeper berth must be logged as sleeper berth time. There are no exceptions to that.

The point is sleeper berth is still 'off duty' it might not BE on line 1, but it is still an off duty status.

Actually it is not, DOT can come knocking on your door at anytime and you may have to get out and answer questions. Or your something might happen making you get out of the truck to take care of your truck or cargo.

When you are off duty and away from the truck then DOT can't come knocking and the truck and or cargo is not your responsibility.

That is the way I see it anyway. I am happy though as long as I can use line 1 and line 2 for reset.

[Fredog]

you can also get in your truck and spend as much time in it doing whatever you want (except driving it unless for above stated purposes) when you are off duty

Nope. The regs are very clear that other than the personal conveyance exception, all time spent in a CMV is either On Duty or Sleeper Berth.

if you are off duty at a friends house or a motel and you decide to go sleep in the truck, it's fine, you are still off duty.

Nope. Then you would be logging sleeper berth time. All time spent in a sleeper berth must be logged as sleeper berth time. There are no exceptions to that.

okay, so when you are home and off duty, you cant go in your sleeper unless you change your log to sleeper berth?? Just when I was starting to think you may have a little sense..... when you are off duty, you can do WHATEVER you want including camping in your truck. look it up..

[matcat]

you can also get in your truck and spend as much time in it doing whatever you want (except driving it unless for above stated purposes) when you are off duty

Nope. The regs are very clear that other than the personal conveyance exception, all time spent in a CMV is either On Duty or Sleeper Berth.

if you are off duty at a friends house or a motel and you decide to go sleep in the truck, it's fine, you are still off duty.

Nope. Then you would be logging sleeper berth time. All time spent in a sleeper berth must be logged as sleeper berth time. There are no exceptions to that.

The point is sleeper berth is still 'off duty' it might not BE on line 1, but it is still an off duty status.

Actually it is not, DOT can come knocking on your door at anytime and you may have to get out and answer questions. Or your something might happen making you get out of the truck to take care of your truck or cargo.

When you are off duty and away from the truck then DOT can't come knocking and the truck and or cargo is not your responsibility.

That is the way I see it anyway. I am happy though as long as I can use line 1 and line 2 for reset.

Assuming an LEO comes knocking on your door, you then would have to drop down to line 4, taking yourself off duty and going on duty.

[Fredog]

you can also get in your truck and spend as much time in it doing whatever you want (except driving it unless for above stated purposes) when you are off duty

Nope. The regs are very clear that other than the personal conveyance exception, all time spent in a CMV is either On Duty or Sleeper Berth.

if you are off duty at a friends house or a motel and you decide to go sleep in the truck, it's fine, you are still off duty.

Nope. Then you would be logging sleeper berth time. All time spent in a sleeper berth must be logged as sleeper berth time. There are no exceptions to that.

The point is sleeper berth is still 'off duty' it might not BE on line 1, but it is still an off duty status.

Actually it is not, DOT can come knocking on your door at anytime and you may have to get out and answer questions. Or your something might happen making you get out of the truck to take care of your truck or cargo.

When you are off duty and away from the truck then DOT can't come knocking and the truck and or cargo is not your responsibility.

That is the way I see it anyway. I am happy though as long as I can use line 1 and line 2 for reset.

Assuming an LEO comes knocking on your door, you then would have to drop down to line 4, taking yourself off duty and going on duty.

when is the last time an leo came to a motel or your house and knocked on the truck door? even if he did, no law says you have to answer it.

[Rev.Vassago]

okay, so when you are home and off duty, you cant go in your sleeper unless you change your log to sleeper berth??

Correct.

Just when I was starting to think you may have a little sense..... when you are off duty, you can do WHATEVER you want including camping in your truck. look it up..

No, you look it up, and cite the reg that supports it. I already have the reg that contradicts it right here:

395.2 Definitions

On duty time means all time from the time a driver begins to work or is required to be in readiness to work until the time the driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work. On duty time shall include:

(1) All time at a plant, terminal, facility, or other property of a motor carrier or shipper, or on any public property, waiting to be dispatched, unless the driver has been relieved from duty by the motor carrier;

(2) All time inspecting, servicing, or conditioning any commercial motor vehicle at any time;

(3) All driving time as defined in the term driving time;

(4) All time, other than driving time, in or upon any commercial motor vehicle except time spent resting in a sleeper berth;

Now let's look at the sleeper berth:

395.8 Driver's record of duty status.

(h)(1) Off duty. Except for time spent resting in a sleeper berth, a continuous line shall be drawn between the appropriate time markers to record the period(s) of time when the driver is not on duty, is not required to be in readiness to work, or is not under any responsibility for performing work.

(h)(2) Sleeper berth. A continuous line shall be drawn between the appropriate time markers to record the period(s) of time off duty resting in a sleeper berth, as defined in §395.2 (If a non-sleeper berth operation, sleeper berth need not be shown on the grid.)

So to recap, 395.2 clearly states that all time spent in or on a CMV, except time in a sleeper berth, is considered ON DUTY. 395.8 clearly states that any time spent in a sleeper berth must be logged as sleeper berth, and cannot be logged as Off Duty.


Now show me the magic made-up regulation that says otherwise.