Line 1 and line 2 Off duty - Sleeper Berth

[matcat]

okay, so when you are home and off duty, you cant go in your sleeper unless you change your log to sleeper berth??

Correct.

Just when I was starting to think you may have a little sense..... when you are off duty, you can do WHATEVER you want including camping in your truck. look it up..

No, you look it up, and cite the reg that supports it. I already have the reg that contradicts it right here:

395.2 Definitions

On duty time means all time from the time a driver begins to work or is required to be in readiness to work until the time the driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work. On duty time shall include:

(1) All time at a plant, terminal, facility, or other property of a motor carrier or shipper, or on any public property, waiting to be dispatched, unless the driver has been relieved from duty by the motor carrier;

(2) All time inspecting, servicing, or conditioning any commercial motor vehicle at any time;

(3) All driving time as defined in the term driving time;

(4) All time, other than driving time, in or upon any commercial motor vehicle except time spent resting in a sleeper berth;

Now let's look at the sleeper berth:

395.8 Driver's record of duty status.

(h)(1) Off duty. Except for time spent resting in a sleeper berth, a continuous line shall be drawn between the appropriate time markers to record the period(s) of time when the driver is not on duty, is not required to be in readiness to work, or is not under any responsibility for performing work.

(h)(2) Sleeper berth. A continuous line shall be drawn between the appropriate time markers to record the period(s) of time off duty resting in a sleeper berth, as defined in §395.2 (If a non-sleeper berth operation, sleeper berth need not be shown on the grid.)

So to recap, 395.2 clearly states that all time spent in or on a CMV, except time in a sleeper berth, is considered ON DUTY. 395.8 clearly states that any time spent in a sleeper berth must be logged as sleeper berth, and cannot be logged as Off Duty.


Now show me the magic made-up regulation that says otherwise.

Correct it cannot be logged as off duty, but it is STILL considered to be off duty.

[Rev.Vassago]

Correct it cannot be logged as off duty, but it is STILL considered to be off duty.

No, it is considered to be sleeper berth. If it was considered to be off duty, then it could be logged as off duty.

Why everyone wants to make these two lines interchangeable is beyond me.

Driving time is on duty time. On duty (not driving) is also on duty time. But guess what - THEY ARE NOT THE SAME.

[matcat]

Correct it cannot be logged as off duty, but it is STILL considered to be off duty.

No, it is considered to be sleeper berth. If it was considered to be off duty, then it could be logged as off duty.

Why everyone wants to make these two lines interchangeable is beyond me.

Driving time is on duty time. On duty (not driving) is also on duty time. But guess what - THEY ARE NOT THE SAME.

You are missing the point, line 3 and 4 are both on duty time, one is just there to measure your time driving, whereis line 1 and 2 are both off duty time, but line 2 exists to measure your time in the berth. 1 and 2 are BOTH off duty, line 3 and 4 are BOTH on duty. I never once said you could log line 1 while in the sleeper, nor did I say you could log line 2 while in the motel or truck stop, but the point is they are both off duty statuses.

[Double L]

I have a question then. Say your 500 miles from home and you have to take a 34 hour restart at a truckstop. Wouldn't that be considered line 1 Off Duty? :? I understand it being line 2 Sleeper Berth when taking a 10 hour break or waiting to get loaded if you was in the sleeper at that time anyway. From the way I understand it, it would be line 4 On Duty Not Driving if you was waiting to get loaded but in the driver's seat.

It wouldn't surprise me if I get told I don't know what I'm talking about cause I never drove a truck or I'm too young.

[Rev.Vassago]

You are missing the point, line 3 and 4 are both on duty time, one is just there to measure your time driving, whereis line 1 and 2 are both off duty time, but line 2 exists to measure your time in the berth. 1 and 2 are BOTH off duty, line 3 and 4 are BOTH on duty.

That is a non point, because it really makes no difference if they are both off duty or not. One is what you log when you are in a CMV, and the other is not.

I have a question then. Say your 500 miles from home and you have to take a 34 hour restart at a truckstop. Wouldn't that be considered line 1 Off Duty?

If you are inside the sleeper, it always gets logged as line 2 (sleeper berth). If you are inside the cab, it gets logged as On Duty (not driving), unless you are using the CMV for personal conveyance, when it can be logged as Off Duty, unless you are laden. If you are sitting in the cab on a 34 hour reset, it gets logged as On Duty (not driving), which blows your 34 hour reset. The regs are very clear that On Duty time shall include all time in or upon a CMV except time spent in a sleeper berth.

[Rat]

you can also get in your truck and spend as much time in it doing whatever you want (except driving it unless for above stated purposes) when you are off duty

Nope. The regs are very clear that other than the personal conveyance exception, all time spent in a CMV is either On Duty or Sleeper Berth.

if you are off duty at a friends house or a motel and you decide to go sleep in the truck, it's fine, you are still off duty.

Nope. Then you would be logging sleeper berth time. All time spent in a sleeper berth must be logged as sleeper berth time. There are no exceptions to that.

The point is sleeper berth is still 'off duty' it might not BE on line 1, but it is still an off duty status.

Actually it is not, DOT can come knocking on your door at anytime and you may have to get out and answer questions. Or your something might happen making you get out of the truck to take care of your truck or cargo.

When you are off duty and away from the truck then DOT can't come knocking and the truck and or cargo is not your responsibility.

That is the way I see it anyway. I am happy though as long as I can use line 1 and line 2 for reset.

Assuming an LEO comes knocking on your door, you then would have to drop down to line 4, taking yourself off duty and going on duty.

Yeap, either flag it or log it depending on how long he had my attention. Under 15 mins then I would be flagging it in the log. Over 15 mins then I actually drop down for 15 mins.

But I would be asking him some questions and let him know in a nice respecatable way that he just put me over hours or is messing up my 10 hour reset and might put me in violation.

[Fredog]

You are missing the point, line 3 and 4 are both on duty time, one is just there to measure your time driving, whereis line 1 and 2 are both off duty time, but line 2 exists to measure your time in the berth. 1 and 2 are BOTH off duty, line 3 and 4 are BOTH on duty.

That is a non point, because it really makes no difference if they are both off duty or not. One is what you log when you are in a CMV, and the other is not.

I have a question then. Say your 500 miles from home and you have to take a 34 hour restart at a truckstop. Wouldn't that be considered line 1 Off Duty?

If you are inside the sleeper, it always gets logged as line 2 (sleeper berth). If you are inside the cab, it gets logged as On Duty (not driving), unless you are using the CMV for personal conveyance, when it can be logged as Off Duty, unless you are laden. If you are sitting in the cab on a 34 hour reset, it gets logged as On Duty (not driving), which blows your 34 hour reset. The regs are very clear that On Duty time shall include all time in or upon a CMV except time spent in a sleeper berth.

I just went out and got my stuff out of the cooler in the sleeper, I logged 15 minutes sleeper time so I wont go to jail even though I am off duty until Monday.is that what you think I should do? You are silly with your interpretation, but so what? the poster wanted to stir things up and he did..

[Rev.Vassago]

But I would be asking him some questions and let him know in a nice respecatable way that he just put me over hours

It is impossible for him to be putting you over your hours by having you go On Duty (not driving).

[matcat]

I have a question then. Say your 500 miles from home and you have to take a 34 hour restart at a truckstop. Wouldn't that be considered line 1 Off Duty? :? I understand it being line 2 Sleeper Berth when taking a 10 hour break or waiting to get loaded if you was in the sleeper at that time anyway. From the way I understand it, it would be line 4 On Duty Not Driving if you was waiting to get loaded but in the driver's seat.

It wouldn't surprise me if I get told I don't know what I'm talking about cause I never drove a truck or I'm too young.

It is possible to log line 1 or 2 while getting loading/unloaded. Say for example you pull up to the consignee, you would log atleast 15 minutes for arrival to account for docking, and giving them the paperwork. You could then either A: Go in the sleeper (line 2), and take a nap, read a book, whatever until they are finished, at which point, you would then drop back down to line 4 to get your copy of the paperwork back. Or B: they have a driver lounge or something near by to go hang out at, line 1 it. Now let us say they happen to take 10+ hours, you just got a 10 hour break in! I have done it, it has happened to me more then once!

As far as 34 hour resets, nearly all of mine looked something like:
Day 1


Get somewhere, drop down line 4 drop, go up to line 1 and start my 34

Day 2

After my 34 was up, did a pre trip and took off

That is how probably 80% of my 34s look. With almost 70% of that 34 being spent in the truck. Actually usually on a 34 I would bobtail around to eat, go to wally world whatever. (This time would be on line 1)

EDIT: Well crap it didn't show right I will just do images

[Rev.Vassago]

Get somewhere, drop down line 4 drop, go up to line 1 and start my 34

If you were in the CMV for the 34 hour reset, then you logged it incorrectly. The only time you can log line 1 inside a CMV is when it is being used for personal conveyance. Period. End of story.

[matcat]

Get somewhere, drop down line 4 drop, go up to line 1 and start my 34

If you were in the CMV for the 34 hour reset, then you logged it incorrectly. The only time you can log line 1 inside a CMV is when it is being used for personal conveyance. Period. End of story.

This is why I log line 1 while I am bobtailing around to go shopping or whatever, as stated in the example above.

[Fredog]

Get somewhere, drop down line 4 drop, go up to line 1 and start my 34

If you were in the CMV for the 34 hour reset, then you logged it incorrectly. The only time you can log line 1 inside a CMV is when it is being used for personal conveyance. Period. End of story.

so every minute you spent in your cab working on your truck was logged as off duty?? yea right..
where is the rule that says you cant get in your truck if you are off duty? I cant seem to find it..

[Double L]

I'm surprise GolfHobo hasn't said anything yet. :?

[matcat]

I'm surprise GolfHobo hasn't said anything yet. :?

rofl

[matcat]

Get somewhere, drop down line 4 drop, go up to line 1 and start my 34

If you were in the CMV for the 34 hour reset, then you logged it incorrectly. The only time you can log line 1 inside a CMV is when it is being used for personal conveyance. Period. End of story.

so every minute you spent in your cab working on your truck was logged as off duty?? yea right..
where is the rule that says you cant get in your truck if you are off duty? I cant seem to find it..

I've heard it said before that just the act of getting out of the sleeper, going over the pass/driver seat, to step outside, would merit going to line 4, which is just completely ridiculous. It is just as ridiculous to say that if you sit in the pass/driver seat you must be on line 4. I have spent many an hour on line 1/2 sitting in the driver seat shooting the breeze on the CB, or using my laptop on the steering wheel (makes a good laptop stand ). Though technically the regulations state if you are in those seats you must be logged line 4 (or 3 if driving), but that is not the purpose of the regulation! The whole idea of it (the spirit of the regulation) is based on the idea that in a team/trainee situation, you aren't working to train/working in any other fashion WHILE you are logged off or sleeper, and actually getting rest. Go ask 100 LEO/DOTs if they will pop you for log violation while you sit in the driver seat using your CB/laptop/reading book/whatever while taking a 10 or 34, and more then likely 99 of them will just laugh at you. But you may get that 1 ***** that would be a *****.

[Rev.Vassago]

so every minute you spent in your cab working on your truck was logged as off duty?? yea right..

Yes.

where is the rule that says you cant get in your truck if you are off duty? I cant seem to find it..

When did I ever say something like that? I never stated that you can't get into your truck if you are off duty. I clearly stated (and backed up with the regs) that if you get into your truck, you are either logging On Duty (not driving), On Duty (driving), or if you are in the sleeper berth, you are logging Sleeper Berth. The only situation where you can log Off Duty and be in a CMV is when you are using it for personal conveyance.

I've heard it said before that just the act of getting out of the sleeper, going over the pass/driver seat, to step outside, would merit going to line 4, which is just completely ridiculous.

That is ridiculous, unless it took you 15 minutes or more to do.

It is just as ridiculous to say that if you sit in the pass/driver seat you must be on line 4

Ridiculous or not, it is the regulation.

Though technically the regulations state if you are in those seats you must be logged line 4 (or 3 if driving), but that is not the purpose of the regulation! The whole idea of it (the spirit of the regulation) is based on the idea that in a team/trainee situation, you aren't working to train/working in any other fashion WHILE you are logged off or sleeper, and actually getting rest.

So now we are back to the magical "spirit" of the regulation. Unfortunately, the "spirit" of the regulation only goes as far as the LEO who doesn't write you up for doing something against the regs.

Go ask 100 LEO/DOTs if they will pop you for log violation while you sit in the driver seat using your CB/laptop/reading book/whatever while taking a 10 or 34, and more then likely 99 of them will just laugh at you. But you may get that 1 ***** that would be a *****.

And that one "*****" would only be following the letter of the law. Sucks to be you when you meet him. I suppose the same could be said for the whole open container inside a CMV. 99 LEO's aren't going to write you up, but that one "*****" who decides that the regs that state no alcohol inside a CMV are something worth enforcing does. Which one is correct? The one who doesn't write you up, or the one who does?

[SilverWulf]

I've seen some pretty ridiculous hair splitting when talking about the regulations here, but this takes the cake.

Combine lines 1 and 2 to get your break, however it works for you and however your company recognizes it without giving you a hard time.

I'm sitting here in the middle of a reset and saw an accident in the parking lot not too long ago. Mr. LEO came over and asked me what I saw, I spent maybe a half hour talking to him. Not once did he ask for my log book or mention it in any way. I'll be damned if I'm going to screw up my reset by coming on duty for that time.

The example posted earlier of a typical reset, that's what mine look like also, most of the time.

In my 12+ years of driving I have never had a log book violation while getting DOT'd.

I also had a beer last night with dinner, get over it.

[Rev.Vassago]

I'm sitting here in the middle of a reset and saw an accident in the parking lot not too long ago. Mr. LEO came over and asked me what I saw, I spent maybe a half hour talking to him. Not once did he ask for my log book or mention it in any way. I'll be damned if I'm going to screw up my reset by coming on duty for that time.

Just because you got away with it doesn't mean it's right, based upon the law. I'm sure most drivers would do the same thing you did.

I also had a beer last night with dinner, get over it.

Was it in your truck?

[Fredog]

so every minute you spent in your cab working on your truck was logged as off duty?? yea right..

Yes.

then by your own admission, you broke the law, YOU said that you cant be in your truck and be off duty, so please turn yourself in..

where is the rule that says you cant get in your truck if you are off duty? I cant seem to find it..

When did I ever say something like that? I never stated that you can't get into your truck if you are off duty. I clearly stated (and backed up with the regs) that if you get into your truck, you are either logging On Duty (not driving), On Duty (driving), or if you are in the sleeper berth, you are logging Sleeper Berth. The only situation where you can log Off Duty and be in a CMV is when you are using it for personal conveyance.

I've heard it said before that just the act of getting out of the sleeper, going over the pass/driver seat, to step outside, would merit going to line 4, which is just completely ridiculous.

That is ridiculous, unless it took you 15 minutes or more to do.

It is just as ridiculous to say that if you sit in the pass/driver seat you must be on line 4

Ridiculous or not, it is the regulation.

Though technically the regulations state if you are in those seats you must be logged line 4 (or 3 if driving), but that is not the purpose of the regulation! The whole idea of it (the spirit of the regulation) is based on the idea that in a team/trainee situation, you aren't working to train/working in any other fashion WHILE you are logged off or sleeper, and actually getting rest.

So now we are back to the magical "spirit" of the regulation. Unfortunately, the "spirit" of the regulation only goes as far as the LEO who doesn't write you up for doing something against the regs.

Go ask 100 LEO/DOTs if they will pop you for log violation while you sit in the driver seat using your CB/laptop/reading book/whatever while taking a 10 or 34, and more then likely 99 of them will just laugh at you. But you may get that 1 ***** that would be a *****.

And that one "*****" would only be following the letter of the law. Sucks to be you when you meet him. I suppose the same could be said for the whole open container inside a CMV. 99 LEO's aren't going to write you up, but that one "*****" who decides that the regs that state no alcohol inside a CMV are something worth enforcing does. Which one is correct? The one who doesn't write you up, or the one who does?

[Rev.Vassago]

so every minute you spent in your cab working on your truck was logged as off duty?? yea right..

Yes.

then by your own admission, you broke the law, YOU said that you cant be in your truck and be off duty, so please turn yourself in..

Sorry, I misread that. The time spent working on my truck was On Duty (not driving). I think it was the "yea right" that threw me off.