Alcohol and OTR

[perchmouth]

I recently got my CDL-A and I'm probably going to start up with Roehl shortly and the wife and I were discussing OTR minutae over dinner this evening.

When the subject of kicking back after a day of driving came up, I told her that what I learned in school is that drinking of any sort is a no-no with OTR. You aren't going to enjoy a beer with dinner or knock back a six-pack while watching a DVD in your cab. Hell, having a small bottle of Listerine in your toiletry bag is a violation.

She was rather suprised by all this, (especially that last one about the mouthwash). I'm correct, aren't I? I didn't dream this up, did I?

:?:

[PhuzzyGnu]

No alcohol in the truck cab!

And alcohol means liquor/beer/wine . . . Listerine or rubbing alcohol or NyQuil is fine.

ANY blood alcohol quantity, even .001% constitutes a DUI with a commercial license, and you career is over.

The law is 4 hours bottle-to-throttle. I say 8, and preferably 24.

-p.

[Rat]

Mouthwash is fine. Beer is not, Simply put, if you have to buy it in a bottle shop or another place that needs a liquer liscense to sell it then you can't have it in your truck.

[kc0iv]

Where there maybe company standards that have these high standards no such standard exist at the Federal level. Per 40.247 it says "If the test result is an alcohol concentration of less than 0.02,........." and if it is .02% or higher a second test is required.

If the second test is less than .04% you are not driving under the influence. See: http://www.drunkdrivingdefense.com/m...nses-cdls.html

I might also add only saliva or breath is permitted for alcohol testings. Per 40.277 as far as Federal laws.

There is NO law as to when you can drive after having consumed alcohol. The law is about what percentage of alcohol is in your system.

There are also no Federal law about alcohol in the truck cab. I'm not saying some local LEO might take exception and cite you with being under the influence.

I don't condone alcohol use while driving and many companies have a 0% where it comes to alcohol. However, many thing you read on here and elsewhere are urban legends and not base on the law(s).

kc0iv

[Uturn2001]

There are also no Federal law about alcohol in the truck cab.

Oh really:

Then how do you explain 392.5 of the FMCSA

(a)(3) Be on duty or operate a commercial motor vehicle while the driver possesses wine of not less than one-half of one per centum of alcohol by volume, beer as defined in 26 U.S.C. 5052(a), of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954, and distilled spirits as defined in section 5002(a)(8)

Yes you could legally have it in the truck if you were off duty, but before going on duty you had better make sure that it is all out of that truck.

[kc0iv]

Originally Posted by Uturn2001

Oh really:

Then how do you explain 392.5 of the FMCSA

Yes you could legally have it in the truck if you were off duty, but before going on duty you had better make sure that it is all out of that truck.

Uturn2001,

The key is "Be on duty or operate a commercial motor vehicle while the driver possesses........." There is nothing in this rule that says "make sure that it is all out of that truck." (I.E. non-driving passenger comes to mind)

I do stand corrected on the "NO law as to when you can drive after having consumed alcohol." Per 392.5 (a)(1) & (a)(2).

kc0iv

[Rev.Vassago]

Originally Posted by kc0iv

Uturn2001,

The key is "Be on duty or operate a commercial motor vehicle while the [/color]driver[color=green][b] possesses........." There is nothing in this rule that says "make sure that it is all out of that truck." (I.E. non-driving passenger comes to mind)

"Honest, Mr. DOT Officer. It's not my booze."

[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by perchmouth

I recently got my CDL-A and I'm probably going to start up with Roehl shortly and the wife and I were discussing OTR minutae over dinner this evening.

When the subject of kicking back after a day of driving came up, I told her that what I learned in school is that drinking of any sort is a no-no with OTR. You aren't going to enjoy a beer with dinner or knock back a six-pack while watching a DVD in your cab. Hell, having a small bottle of Listerine in your toiletry bag is a violation.

She was rather suprised by all this, (especially that last one about the mouthwash). I'm correct, aren't I? I didn't dream this up, did I?

:?:

No, you are not correct. Neither was your teacher, and neither are any of the other responses (totally.)

The "key" as someone mentioned.... is whether or not the CMV is "in operation." Idling while parked in a truckstop is NOT considered to be "in operation."

IF in operation.... anything less than .02 is not "actionable," as they consider this to be outside the "margin of error" of the testing equipment.

.02 UP to .04 will get you put "out of service" for 24 hours as a precautionary measure, but NO charges!

.04 and OVER will get you a DUI in a commercial vehicle and you will be out of trucking for a good while!

Having alcohol in your truck WHILE OFF DUTY, is not a violation! So, kick back with a SIX in the cooler and watch your movies. But, you DO need to make sure there are no full OR empties in your truck ONCE you get underway (it makes no difference WHOSE it is.... the DRIVER will be charged).... AND there IS a reg that says 4 hours from bottle to throttle.

IF you are off duty, and want to go next door to Ruby Tuesday's and have a beer or two with your steak, ENJOY!!! Just remember the 4 hour rule AND the BAC percentages I gave you!

It seems that "technically" the mouthwash IS a problem (as is nyquill,) but, I doubt SERIOUSLY that any DOT officer will cite you for them as long as you don't blow over the limits I mentioned!

Also.... as long as your CMV is not "IN operation," i.e: you are on your 10 hour break, sitting behind the wheel with the engine idling or the keys in the ignition is NOT a violation, as you are NOT considered to be "driving." And NO "alcohol related" charges can be filed. I don't recommend this, though! If the truck is idling, and you are OFF DUTY, and want to have a few beers..... do it in the sleeper!

The basic rule is NO alcohol, that is NOT on the manifest, is allowed on a CMV WHILE IN OPERATION! The CMV CANNOT be considered "in operation" if the driver is OFF DUTY and the truck is parked! Period!

However, this would be a good place to discuss the "private conveyance" rule. You CANNOT stop by and pick up some beer before you shut down for the night WHILE YOU ARE LADEN (under a load.) But, you CAN drop the trailer if it is loaded, and drive somewhere to purchase beer, as long as you don't drink it before you get back to your truckstop or wherever. And.... IF you are NOT under a load, you can drag your EMPTY trailer behind you, IF you want to, to go to Walmart OR the liquor store! But, I wouldn't suggest THAT either, and you better be close to where you are shutting down (and have NO preplan or dispatch on file for you.)

The regs ARE very specific about the alcohol content of things like nyquil and mouthwash..... but, I wouldn't worry TOO much about it. Unless you have a wreck and KILL someone..... you will NEVER be searched to THAT level! But, to be safe...... brush your teeth and get your rest without the use of alchohol based products! They CAN and HAVE been "abused" by people trying to skirt the rules.... and that is the reason FOR the rules!

Hobo

[BigDiesel]

Here is an easy way to solve this problem...... Don't drink any alcohol in your truck at all, or even drink alcohol while you are out on the road.....

Drink yourself silly while you are on your hometime....

If one " needs " a drink during their time out on the road.... You chose the wrong career then....

[Twilight Flyer]

Here is an easy way to solve this problem...... Don't drink any alcohol in your truck at all, or even drink alcohol while you are out on the road.....

That nails it right there.

Bottom line, while the regulations might say one thing, companies are going to be a lot more anal about it. Alcohol in a truck, whether officially charged or not, is going to be an immediate termination from most companies out there. And if you get terminated for having alcohol in the truck, no company in their right mind is going to hire you.

Leave the booze at home. That 6-pack in the cooler has no business being in your truck.

[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by BigDiesel

Here is an easy way to solve this problem...... Don't drink any alcohol in your truck at all, or even drink alcohol while you are out on the road.....

Drink yourself silly while you are on your hometime....

If one " needs " a drink during their time out on the road.... You chose the wrong career then....

Well, I MIGHT agree with you BigD, if your approach wasn't so draconian. Anyone who NEEDS a drink, DOES have a problem.

I like my beer, and when at home I DO kill a few silver soldiers! And, when I was driving TEAM, I rarely had the chance or need to drink while on the road. But, on the few trips that I got to go solo, I DID enjoy a beer or two with my steak dinner in some quaint little "saloon" along the way. And occaissionaly, I got laid over for a reset. So, it's Sunday afternoon and football is on in the truckstop bar. I order some good food, and I have a few beers while watching the game. I don't leave out til the next day, so what's the harm?

IF I hadn't had a team driver who chose to SLEEP all day, I might have preferred to buy a SIX and watch the game in my sleeper! After all..... I'm not made of money, and that is MUCH cheaper! But, on a 10 hour break?? No way. It takes me at least 5 hours to drink a SIX!! And, LIKE YOU, I need my beauty sleep!

But, I see no problem with a guy having a few beers in his truck (to save money) while on a layover or reset! After all.... don't most of them LIVE in their trucks? Home is where the BEER is! That's what I always say!

[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by Twilight Flyer

That nails it right there.

Bottom line, while the regulations might say one thing, companies are going to be a lot more anal about it. Alcohol in a truck, whether officially charged or not, is going to be an immediate termination from most companies out there. And if you get terminated for having alcohol in the truck, no company in their right mind is going to hire you.

Leave the booze at home. That 6-pack in the cooler has no business being in your truck.

T/F!!! What planet are YOU from? :shock:

Have YOU BEEN to a truckstop lately?? The trashcans are FULL of empties every morning!

Now..... IF a company HAS such a policy, one should HONOR it.... no doubt! And "I" have not worked for "most companies out there," so I don't know how widespread your prudish beliefs and ANAL tendencies are!

But, I CAN tell you that the FMCSA regs are written with REALITY in mind! When a man is OFF DUTY, he is to be "free to leave the premises if desired, and free from MOST obligations to the load!"

Heck.... even the military gets "liberty" now and then!

That attitude right there.... that you espoused.... is part of the reason so many here HATE the "coolie carriers!" You think you OWN us 24 hours a day!?! :shock:

I'll work HARD for 10-14 hours a day....even MORE, if needed. But, MY "off duty time" is MINE.... and you've got very LITTLE to say about it! MOST "resets" are done BETWEEN loads, so there is nothing really to be responsible for.... and you SURE ain't paying me for my time! :shock:

So, unless you've got a bunch of "beer Nazi's" working for your company, going around to EVERY truckstop to check on your drivers and trucks.... you're JUST gonna have to TRUST your drivers to be responsible but FREE men and women!

IF you CAN'T.... perhaps, YOU have chosen the wrong profession! :shock: :wink:

[Rat]

Is the sleeper not physically attached to the truck. is the truck not a motor vehical? If so then would not be possible to get a ticket for Physical Control. This is what some people get when they are under the influence and in the vehical with the keys in the ignition or even their pocket.

Some states may have different laws but I know of two O/O that got these tickets in their trucks while parked and under the influence. The ticket pulls the same fine as a DUI and effects your driving record in the same way as a DUI.

[Twilight Flyer]

I'll ignore most of your post because it's nothing more than reactionary blather. You're mad because I don't agree with you.

Here's a word for you.

Tough ****

Oops, that's two words. Deal with it.

But I will address this and I'll make sure I keep the attitude on par with yours.

So, unless you've got a bunch of "beer Nazi's" working for your company, going around to EVERY truckstop to check on your drivers and trucks.... you're JUST gonna have to TRUST your drivers to be responsible but FREE men and women!

I field, on average, several calls a year from other truckers or 4-wheelers, calling to inform me that they saw one of our drivers picking up a six pack or a bottle of wine or some other adult beverage and taking it out to their truck.

I am one recruiter.

In one company.

Do the math and tell me how anyone needs beer nazis? There are a lot of drivers out there that agree with me and would rather see their chosen profession cleaned up instead of walked all over by someone that doesn't give a **** what the image is.

Point is, having beer in the truck is stupid. Plain and simple. And my family shares the road with you. I don't want you getting plowed in your sleeper because you had 1 beer too many while watching your football team get destroyed and then had no one around to take your keys away.

Get it?

You want to drink beer? Fine. Drink it at home. Sounds to me like you NEED it. Maybe you NEED to get help.

How's that. Was I as offensive as you?

[chubyboy]

ok ok, lets cool it down now guys and gals...

now, i AGREE that one should not be having beer in ones truck except during perhaps some FEW exeptions, and i agree that one shouldnt get plowed or w/e HOWEVER, i would condone a driver having one or two with dinner etc, AS LONG AS they follow all laws and company policies and are responsible about it.

and now to close with a not very funny joke:

a budweiser driver gets pulled over for drinking while operating a CMV, the dot officer asks "What do you think your doing?". the driver replies "Just checking my load officer."

[BigDiesel]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

T/F!!! What planet are YOU from? :shock:

Have YOU BEEN to a truckstop lately?? The trashcans are FULL of empties every morning!

Now..... IF a company HAS such a policy, one should HONOR it.... no doubt! And "I" have not worked for "most companies out there," so I don't know how widespread your prudish beliefs and ANAL tendencies are!

But, I CAN tell you that the FMCSA regs are written with REALITY in mind! When a man is OFF DUTY, he is to be "free to leave the premises if desired, and free from MOST obligations to the load!"

Heck.... even the military gets "liberty" now and then!

That attitude right there.... that you espoused.... is part of the reason so many here HATE the "OTR carriers!" You think you OWN us 24 hours a day!?! :shock:

I'll work HARD for 10-14 hours a day....even MORE, if needed. But, MY "off duty time" is MINE.... and you've got very LITTLE to say about it! MOST "resets" are done BETWEEN loads, so there is nothing really to be responsible for.... and you SURE ain't paying me for my time! :shock:

So, unless you've got a bunch of "beer Nazi's" working for your company, going around to EVERY truckstop to check on your drivers and trucks.... you're JUST gonna have to TRUST your drivers to be responsible but FREE men and women!

IF you CAN'T.... perhaps, YOU have chosen the wrong profession! :shock: :wink:

Uh.......Unemployed Hobo.... When you are able to rub two nickles together and able to invest thousands of dollars to own a company and operate under your own authority, at that point you can drink a half-rack in your truck.

Until then STFU.....

[Rev.Vassago]

Alright. Now that I have some time to devote to this, I will. I couldn't care less about the touchy-feely crap having to do with "if you need a drink while you're on the road, you have a problem blah blah blah". Let's look at the regs, shall we? (I'll be highlighting the important parts)

§392.5 Alcohol prohibition.

(a) No driver shall—

(a)(1) Use alcohol, as defined in §382.107 of this subchapter, or be under the influence of alcohol, within 4 hours before going on duty or operating, or having physical control of, a commercial motor vehicle; or

(a)(2) Use alcohol, be under the influence of alcohol, or have any measured alcohol concentration or detected presence of alcohol, while on duty, or operating, or in physical control of a commercial motor vehicle; or

(a)(3) Be on duty or operate a commercial motor vehicle while the driver possesses wine of not less than one-half of one per centum of alcohol by volume, beer as defined in 26 U.S.C. 5052(a), of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954, and distilled spirits as defined in section 5002(a)(8 ), of such Code. However, this does not apply to possession of wine, beer, or distilled spirits which are:

(a)(3)(i) Manifested and transported as part of a shipment; or

(a)(3)(ii) Possessed or used by bus passengers.

What does all this mean? You cannot be on duty, or operate a CMV if you have had anything to drink in the prior 4 hours, or if you have any alcohol in your CMV. While some will take this to mean you can have alcohol in the bunk of a CMV while you are off duty, that isn't so. If a cop were to come up to you and want to talk to you, you'd automatically go on duty (not driving), and be in violation. If someone hit your truck, you'd have to go on duty(not driving) and be in violation. IF YOU WERE SITTING IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT HAVING A SMOKE, you would be on duty (not driving), and be in violation.

I will now further stress this by quoting the FMCSA interpretations for this reg:

Question 3: Does the prohibition against carrying alcoholic beverages in §392.5 apply to a driver who uses a company vehicle, for personal reasons, while off-duty?

Guidance: No. For example, an owner-operator using his/her own vehicle in an off-duty status, or a driver using a company truck or tractor for transportation to a motel, restaurant, or home, would normally be outside the scope of this section.

Look at the wording they used - prohibition against carrying alcoholic beverages. That means it is prohibited, or not allowed. The only time you could get away with it is if you were using the truck as personal conveyance, which you cannot do if it is laden.

Another thing you are incorrect about, golfhobo, is the .02 being the minimum. Let's go back to the regs:

§392.5 Intoxicating Beverage

Question 4: Would an alcohol test, performed by an employer pursuant to 49 CFR part 382, with a result greater than 0.00 BAC, but less than 0.02 BAC, establish that a driver was in violation of 49 CFR 392.5(a)(2), having any measured alcohol concentration while on duty?

Guidance: No. The FHWA believes that a 0.02 BAC is the lowest level at which a scientifically accurate breath/blood alcohol concentration can be measured in an employer-based test under part 382. The FHWA further believes that this use of a 0.02 BAC standard is consistent with FHWA's long established zero tolerance standard for alcohol. This guidance in no way impedes or precludes any action taken by a law enforcement official because of a finding that a BAC level was less than 0.02 BAC.

The FHWA has a zero tolerance for alcohol. They understand that breath tests are not absolute under certain conditions (like under 0.02 BAC). They clearly leave it up to each individual law enforcement officer to decide if they want to arrest you for having any alcohol in your blood. It has happened, and it can happen. If you don't believe that, then you are simply being naive.

Remember - to be considered On Duty (not driving), you only have to be at the controls of a CMV. You don't actually have to be operating the CMV. If you are in the truck, and you aren't in the sleeper berth, you are on duty.

[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by BigDiesel

Uh.......Unemployed Hobo.... When you are able to rub two nickles together and able to invest thousands of dollars to own a company and operate under your own authority, at that point you can drink a half-rack in your truck.

Until then STFU.....

Uh..... UNINFORMED BigDiesel..... IF you buy into the analysis of the regs as given by others here (which I don't,) you would STILL and once again be wrong. No surprise!

The Feds don't make a distinction between O/O's and company drivers. The regs apply to both drivers and companies. As an O/O you qualify as BOTH if you drive your own rigs. Therefore, IF it is illegal to consume alcohol in your truck, then as the COMPANY you cannot allow yourself to do so!

Sorry..... under YOUR interpretations...... NO "half rack" for you, either!!

I got an idea.... why don't YOU shut up and let us "big boys" hash this out again! :wink:

[golfhobo]

Rev.Vassago said:

Quote:

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Alright. Now that I have some time to devote to this, I will. I couldn't care less about the touchy-feely crap having to do with "if you need a drink while you're on the road, you have a problem blah blah blah". Let's look at the regs, shall we? (I'll be highlighting the important parts)