Alcohol and OTR

[golfhobo]

Then we have the exception to this, which is the one or two hour periods within your duty window wherein you are ROD by your company, and CAN log "off duty." This means you can go get a Mickey D's and EAT it in your CAB and STILL be ROD and log it as OFF DUTY! ..... as LONG as the CMV is NOT IN OPERATION, you can be ROD ...AND "at the controls" without it being considered ON DUTY!

No, the regulation you just quoted states specifically that any time in or upon a CMV that isn't sleeper berth time is On Duty time. Now you want to pretend that it isn't.

No, it doesn't! It says that any time while you are ON DUTY, and NOT ROD by your company, including BOTH the ROD time for your "MANDATORY 10 hour break" AND the time you are "temporarily" ROD for breaks enroute or during your tour of duty, is considered ON DUTY.

Why don't you stop trying to pretend that you know how to interpret the regs, because it is quite clear you don't. You are pretending you are psychic, and know what the intent was when the regs were written (which you have done in the past as well, and failed just as miserably at).

I'm not psychic. I am well educated in the English language and have ACED every English Comprehension test I've ever taken (including SAT's, college placement tests, IQ tests AND Military entrance exams!) I've ALSO spent about 20 years of my life under government regulations, and helped to write a few of them.

How may years have YOU spent in the Military, Rev? And how many years as a Government contractor? How many regs have you helped to write? And what are your English Comp scores on the various tests you've taken?

Have you even read the entire Final Ruling on HOS by the FMCSA? I have. What about the administrator's statements concerning their intent? I have.

I suspect you have ONLY read the few regs that you want to argue about, NONE of the background data, and none of the Administrator's statements concerning them.

On top of that, you have a REAL problem comprehending clausal relationships in the language, have NO concept of "context" and see ONLY what you want to see.

Let's go back to the reg you say I don't understand. YOU say, "ANY time spent on a CMV that is not in the sleeper in on duty," right? Okay. So...

Again, you are on a 34 hour reset. You MUST log either line 1 or line 2 to avoid interrupting that reset. So, you get out of the sleeper, and step through the CAB of yoiur truck on your way out the door to the shower. According to YOUR "interpretation" you just went ON DUTY, breaking your reset!

You come back from the shower, and you are a TEAM operation. Your codriver is in the bunk with the curtains closed. You don't want to disturb him, but you don't want to stay in the truckstop playing video games. You "rest" in the passenger seat so as not to disturb him. You just BUSTED your reset! I suppose you think that you SHOULD stay in the truckstop for the entire time, OR that you can magically transform yourself from standing outside in the heat INTO the sleeper, WITHOUT going through the cab!

Wait, I got it..... to keep from waking him, you sit on the catwalk for an hour in the heat. You are ON the CMV..... are you ON DUTY?? Did you just bust your reset?

NO! Because the reg CLEARLY states that ON DUTY time cannot ever, never, be confused with OFF DUTY time! :shock:

The most STRINGENT interpretation of the regs would NEVER impose on a driver that, when OFF DUTY, he is not allowed ON or IN his CMV unless he could magically jump into the sleeper without touching the passenger area of his truck! But, THAT is exactly what YOU are espousing!

I gotta ask ya, Rev..... does that sound at all REASONABLE or rational to you? NO? Then, the difference is..... that the "on the truck" stipulation as "on duty" is relevant ONLY to a driver who has NOT been ROD and is NOT on either his 10 hour or "enroute" break or a 34 hour reset!

One last impression. You are on your 34 hour reset, and your company generously pays for a motel room. But, you awake the first morning and realize you left your shampoo in the truck! You go to get it. Ooops! You just busted your reset!

Does ANY of this make any sense to you, Rev? OR does it make sense that, AS the regs state, the FMCSA does NOT regulate your choice of "resting facilities" while OFF DUTY?

[Rev.Vassago]

No, the regulation you just quoted states specifically that any time in or upon a CMV that isn't sleeper berth time is On Duty time. Now you want to pretend that it isn't.

No, it doesn't!

(4) All time, other than driving time, in or upon any commercial motor vehicle except time spent resting in a sleeper berth;

Yes, it does.

It says that any time while you are ON DUTY, and NOT ROD by your company, including BOTH the ROD time for your "MANDATORY 10 hour break" AND the time you are "temporarily" ROD for breaks enroute or during your tour of duty, is considered ON DUTY.

No, it doesn't.

How may years have YOU spent in the Military, Rev? And how many years as a Government contractor? How many regs have you helped to write? And what are your English Comp scores on the various tests you've taken?

Irrelevant questions presented by DeflectoMan.

Have you even read the entire Final Ruling on HOS by the FMCSA?

Yes.

What about the administrator's statements concerning their intent?

Yup.

I suspect you have ONLY read the few regs that you want to argue about, NONE of the background data, and none of the Administrator's statements concerning them.

Psychic man is wrong again.

YOU say, "ANY time spent on a CMV that is not in the sleeper in on duty," right?

No, I don't say that. The regs say that, right here:

(4) All time, other than driving time, in or upon any commercial motor vehicle except time spent resting in a sleeper berth;

Again, you are on a 34 hour reset. You MUST log either line 1 or line 2 to avoid interrupting that reset. So, you get out of the sleeper, and step through the CAB of yoiur truck on your way out the door to the shower. According to YOUR "interpretation" you just went ON DUTY, breaking your reset!

If it takes you 15 minutes or more to accomplish that, then yes, you are legally obligated to log it as ON DUTY.

You come back from the shower, and you are a TEAM operation. Your codriver is in the bunk with the curtains closed. You don't want to disturb him, but you don't want to stay in the truckstop playing video games. You "rest" in the passenger seat so as not to disturb him. You just BUSTED your reset!

Yes, you did. The regs state clearly what is considered a suitable resting place in a CMV. It is called a sleeper berth. If you aren't using it, then you are ON DUTY.

I suppose you think that you SHOULD stay in the truckstop for the entire time, OR that you can magically transform yourself from standing outside in the heat INTO the sleeper, WITHOUT going through the cab!

, indeed.

Wait, I got it..... to keep from waking him, you sit on the catwalk for an hour in the heat. You are ON the CMV..... are you ON DUTY?? Did you just bust your reset?

Yes.

NO! Because the reg CLEARLY states that ON DUTY time cannot ever, never, be confused with OFF DUTY time! :shock:

Can you point to where it specifically says "ON DUTY time cannot ever, never, be confused with OFF DUTY time"?

The most STRINGENT interpretation of the regs would NEVER impose on a driver that, when OFF DUTY, he is not allowed ON or IN his CMV unless he could magically jump into the sleeper without touching the passenger area of his truck! But, THAT is exactly what YOU are espousing!

Nope. That's not what I'm claiming at all. What I am claiming, however, is that if you are spending a loggable amount of time inside the cab of the truck, then you are legally obligated to log it as ON DUTY (not driving), because the regs state:

(4) All time, other than driving time, in or upon any commercial motor vehicle except time spent resting in a sleeper berth;

I gotta ask ya, Rev..... does that sound at all REASONABLE or rational to you? NO?

Why are you answering questions for me?

Then, the difference is..... that the "on the truck" stipulation as "on duty" is relevant ONLY to a driver who has NOT been ROD and is NOT on either his 10 hour or "enroute" break or a 34 hour reset!

Nope.

One last impression. You are on your 34 hour reset, and your company generously pays for a motel room. But, you awake the first morning and realize you left your shampoo in the truck! You go to get it. Ooops! You just busted your reset!

If the shampoo is in the cab of the truck, and it takes 15 minutes or more to get it, then yes. You just busted your reset.

Does ANY of this make any sense to you, Rev? OR does it make sense that, AS the regs state, the FMCSA does NOT regulate your choice of "resting facilities" while OFF DUTY?

(4) All time, other than driving time, in or upon any commercial motor vehicle except time spent resting in a sleeper berth;
(4) All time, other than driving time, in or upon any commercial motor vehicle except time spent resting in a sleeper berth;
(4) All time, other than driving time, in or upon any commercial motor vehicle except time spent resting in a sleeper berth;
(4) All time, other than driving time, in or upon any commercial motor vehicle except time spent resting in a sleeper berth;
(4) All time, other than driving time, in or upon any commercial motor vehicle except time spent resting in a sleeper berth;
(4) All time, other than driving time, in or upon any commercial motor vehicle except time spent resting in a sleeper berth;
(4) All time, other than driving time, in or upon any commercial motor vehicle except time spent resting in a sleeper berth;
(4) All time, other than driving time, in or upon any commercial motor vehicle except time spent resting in a sleeper berth;
(4) All time, other than driving time, in or upon any commercial motor vehicle except time spent resting in a sleeper berth;

[terrylamar]

Really don't want to get involved.

[golfhobo]

No alcohol in the truck cab!

And alcohol means liquor/beer/wine . . . Listerine or rubbing alcohol or NyQuil is fine.

ANY blood alcohol quantity, even .001% constitutes a DUI with a commercial license, and you career is over.

The law is 4 hours bottle-to-throttle. I say 8, and preferably 24.

-p.

I just quoted myself. Because I was the first to reply, and I was basically right.

-p.

Nope. Not EVEN close! :wink:

But, not much further off than the REv!

[kc0iv]

If it takes you 15 minutes or more to accomplish that, then yes, you are legally obligated to log it as ON DUTY.

If the shampoo is in the cab of the truck, and it takes 15 minutes or more to get it, then yes. You just busted your reset.

I wasn't going to get back in this MESS, but REV you missed this.

"If it takes you 15 minutes or more to accomplish that, then yes, you are legally obligated to log it as ON DUTY."

and

"If the shampoo is in the cab of the truck, and it takes 15 minutes or more to get it, then yes. You just busted your reset."

In both cases if you had to log it as ON-DUTY (Not Driving) even if was less than 15 minutes you would be required to flag the time and location.

SEE: http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...942&guidence=Y

Question 1: How should a change of duty status for a short period of time be shown on the driver's record of duty status?

Guidance: Short periods of time (less than 15 minutes) may be identified by drawing a line from the appropriate on-duty (not driving) or driving line to the remarks section and entering the amount of time, such as "6 minutes," and the geographic location of the duty status change.

kc0iv

[matcat]

Well here is my take on things. As far as the regulations go, as it is written I agree with golfhobo, however I also agree with the fact that you have open container laws, and no doubt could be used against you. Personally I see no real legitimate reason to have alcohol in the cab. If I wanted a drink I just parked it for the night, had a good meal and a few drinks, or if I was on a 34, I might spend a night in the bar and have my time. But to bring it into the cab, too dangerous a risk.

[Rev.Vassago]

I wasn't going to get back in this MESS, but REV you missed this.

"If it takes you 15 minutes or more to accomplish that, then yes, you are legally obligated to log it as ON DUTY."

and

"If the shampoo is in the cab of the truck, and it takes 15 minutes or more to get it, then yes. You just busted your reset."
In both cases if you had to log it as ON-DUTY (Not Driving) even if was less than 15 minutes you would be required to flag the time and location.

Yes, I know. But anything less than 15 minutes does not require you to change your duty status, and therefore would not affect a 34 hour reset or a 10 hour break.

[chubyboy]

hmmm...now everyones forgotton about creative logging...

[Ronin]

Ah yes, the alcohol argument. Easy solution.

LEAVE THE S%# AT HOME!

Now you have no potential problems. As the old saying goes an ounce of prevention is worth a metric ton of cure. Or in our case our reputations and careers.

If you want to risk it, then by all means do so. But when you get busted and some city cop hauls your ass to jail don't come crying to me about technicalities real or perceived. Cops don't care and judges don't care. They will destroy your career or make it quite expensive to salvage.

[Rev.Vassago]

Ah yes, the alcohol argument. Easy solution.

LEAVE THE S%# AT HOME!

Now you have no potential problems. As the old saying goes an ounce of prevention is worth a metric ton of cure. Or in our case our reputations and careers.

If you want to risk it, then by all means do so. But when you get busted and some city cop hauls your ass to jail don't come crying to me about technicalities real or perceived. Cops don't care and judges don't care. They will destroy your career or make it quite expensive to salvage.

I've changed my mind about the whole alcohol in a CMV thing. To celebrate, I'm having a kegger at my truck tonight. Everyone is invited.

[matcat]

Ah yes, the alcohol argument. Easy solution.

LEAVE THE S%# AT HOME!

Now you have no potential problems. As the old saying goes an ounce of prevention is worth a metric ton of cure. Or in our case our reputations and careers.

If you want to risk it, then by all means do so. But when you get busted and some city cop hauls your ass to jail don't come crying to me about technicalities real or perceived. Cops don't care and judges don't care. They will destroy your career or make it quite expensive to salvage.

I've changed my mind about the whole alcohol in a CMV thing. To celebrate, I'm having a kegger at my truck tonight. Everyone is invited.

I've actually seen it done! Dunno if you could call it a tailgate party, maybe bobtail party... but he wasn't bobtailed... at either rate it was some holiday, don't remember which, maybe new years... TMC Flatbedder had a keg on the back of his tractor, some folding chairs, and a flat screen TV playing some game, and a portable grill making weeners and hamburgers, about 15 different drivers all crowded around drinking and eating, right in a pilot if I remember correctly.

[PhuzzyGnu]

This falls into the "debates you really don't want to have with a cop" category.

The rules are written (and perhaps ambiguously like most government regs) with the intent that ALCOHOL and COMMERCIAL VEHICLES are mutually exclusive.

It is terribly irresponsible to put yourself and/or your company at risk just because you HAVE to have alcohol in the truck. You want to have a f**king drink? DON'T HAVE IT IN YOUR F**KING TRUCK! Walk or take a taxi to a bar, a strip club, or restaurant that serves. KEEP IT AWAY FROM YOUR F**KING TRUCK AND MY INDUSTRY AND MY REPUTATION!

I don't care if you can nit-pick and rationalize your way into believing it is OK to have alcohol in your truck. It is not. Our industry doesn't need any problems involving alcohol any more than it needs stories about "high speed chicken feed".

-p.

[terrylamar]

Ah yes, the alcohol argument. Easy solution.

LEAVE THE S%# AT HOME!

Now you have no potential problems. As the old saying goes an ounce of prevention is worth a metric ton of cure. Or in our case our reputations and careers.

If you want to risk it, then by all means do so. But when you get busted and some city cop hauls your ass to jail don't come crying to me about technicalities real or perceived. Cops don't care and judges don't care. They will destroy your career or make it quite expensive to salvage.

I'm sure you meant an EX-TMC driver!

I've changed my mind about the whole alcohol in a CMV thing. To celebrate, I'm having a kegger at my truck tonight. Everyone is invited.

I've actually seen it done! Dunno if you could call it a tailgate party, maybe bobtail party... but he wasn't bobtailed... at either rate it was some holiday, don't remember which, maybe new years... TMC Flatbedder had a keg on the back of his tractor, some folding chairs, and a flat screen TV playing some game, and a portable grill making weeners and hamburgers, about 15 different drivers all crowded around drinking and eating, right in a pilot if I remember correctly.

[golfhobo]

Ah yes, the alcohol argument. Easy solution.

LEAVE THE S%# AT HOME!

Now you have no potential problems. As the old saying goes an ounce of prevention is worth a metric ton of cure. Or in our case our reputations and careers.

If you want to risk it, then by all means do so. But when you get busted and some city cop hauls your ass to jail don't come crying to me about technicalities real or perceived. Cops don't care and judges don't care. They will destroy your career or make it quite expensive to salvage.

I've changed my mind about the whole alcohol in a CMV thing. To celebrate, I'm having a kegger at my truck tonight. Everyone is invited.

Sorry, Rev..... I never drink while on the road unless there's a dead cow or a naked lady involved! Besides...... too many LEO's and beer Nazi's that don't know the regs! :wink:

[Rev.Vassago]

Sorry, Rev..... I never drink while on the road unless there's a dead cow or a naked lady involved! Besides...... too many LEO's and beer Nazi's that don't know the regs! :wink:

Huh? I never said you were invited.

[golfhobo]

Sorry, Rev..... I never drink while on the road unless there's a dead cow or a naked lady involved! Besides...... too many LEO's and beer Nazi's that don't know the regs! :wink:

Huh? I never said you were invited.

Yeah..... should have KNOWN you'd have your own definition of the word 'everyone.'

[Rev.Vassago]

Sorry, Rev..... I never drink while on the road unless there's a dead cow or a naked lady involved! Besides...... too many LEO's and beer Nazi's that don't know the regs! :wink:

Huh? I never said you were invited.

Yeah..... should have KNOWN you'd have your own definition of the word 'everyone.'

Nope. It's just we all know you are nobody. :rock:

[matcat]

Rev, out of curiosity, do you ever actually drive? You post on this forum everyday all day long!

[chubyboy]

he put a GPS auto steer unit from a john deere in his turck and pulls out his laptop with satellite internet...

[golfhobo]

Sorry, Rev..... I never drink while on the road unless there's a dead cow or a naked lady involved! Besides...... too many LEO's and beer Nazi's that don't know the regs! :wink:

Huh? I never said you were invited.

Yeah..... should have KNOWN you'd have your own definition of the word 'everyone.'

Nope. It's just we all know you are nobody. :rock:

Knew THAT was coming!

But, of course, by DEFINITION..... nobody can BE "nobody!" :wink: