[BigDiesel]

Yet again..... Golfhobo has proven that he is clueless about safety and regs :lol: ......

[Rat]

Well after going through all of these quotes of regulations or "clips" it only supports my feelings about alcohol even more.

This is that alcohol is not allowed in a CMV period. Also the Physical Control part tells me that you can not be inside your CMV while intoxicated if you have the keys to that CMV in your posession.

The Sleeper berth may be our home away from home but it is not off duty actually. Off duty is just that according to my safety officer. Off Duty is being away from the truck. Ie hotel room, friends house, or at home.

But then I am one that does not feel the need to have a brew at dinner time when out on the road. I keep the brew at home for when I have the grill fired up.

[Rev.Vassago]

Originally Posted by Rat

The Sleeper berth may be our home away from home but it is not off duty actually. Off duty is just that according to my safety officer. Off Duty is being away from the truck. Ie hotel room, friends house, or at home.

Precisely. If you are in a CMV, you cannot be off duty, unless you are using the truck for personal conveyance. If you are in the sleeper berth, you are not off duty - ever.

Anyone who disagrees is an idiot.

[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago

Precisely. If you are in a CMV, you cannot be off duty, unless you are using the truck for personal conveyance. If you are in the sleeper berth, you are not off duty - ever.

Anyone who disagrees is an idiot.

Well, so much for the Rev keeping it civil! :lol: :lol:

And, well..... I guess the FMCSA IS an idiot, because THEY disagree!

395.8 RODS

(h)(1) Off duty. Except for time spent resting in a sleeper berth, a continuous line shall be drawn between the appropriate time markers to record the period(s) of time when the driver is not on duty, is not required to be in readiness to work, or is not under any responsibility for performing work.

(h)(2) Sleeper berth. A continuous line shall be drawn between the appropriate time markers to record the period(s) of time off duty resting in a sleeper berth, as defined in §395.2 (If a non-sleeper berth operation, sleeper berth need not be shown on the grid.)

The distinction being made here, is NOT between whether you are OFF DUTY or not, but WHERE on the grid you would log this OFF DUTY time!

The Rev said:

Once again, sleeper berth = sleeper berth. Sleeper berth does not = off duty. Ever. Never, ever, ever.

and....

If you are in the CMV, you cannot be OFF DUTY, unless you are using the CMV for personal conveyance. If you are taking a break in the sleeper, you are not OFF DUTY.

And..... once again..... the Rev is WRONG, and the "idiots" at the FMCSA are right.... AND very clear about things!
:roll:

[Rev.Vassago]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

Well, so much for the Rev keeping it civil! :lol: :lol:

And, well..... I guess the FMCSA IS an idiot, because THEY disagree!

The distinction being made here, is NOT between whether you are OFF DUTY or not, but WHERE on the grid you would log this OFF DUTY time!

The Rev said:

and....

And..... once again..... the Rev is WRONG, and the "idiots" at the FMCSA are right.... AND very clear about things!
:roll:

You're kidding, right? You quote the regulation for when to log sleeper berth, then claim it is really off duty? :roll:

(h)(1) Off duty. Except for time spent resting in a sleeper berth, a continuous line shall be drawn between the appropriate time markers to record the period(s) of time when the driver is [b]not on duty, is not required to be in readiness to work, or is not under any responsibility for performing work

[golfhobo]

Rat said:

Well after going through all of these quotes of regulations or "clips" it only supports my feelings about alcohol even more.

This is that alcohol is not allowed in a CMV period.

You are free to believe what you want, Rat. And, I'm SURE that there are companies out there that have "policies" of their own that would say just that! But, don't you think that if the FMCSA wanted to make that clear, they WOULD have? But, they don't just come out and say something like "No driver shall have any alcohol, blah blah in a CMV." What they SAY is, that....

No driver can USE alcohol within 4 hours of going on duty,

USE alcohol or be under the influence WHILE ON DUTY or operating,

or BE ON DUTY while unmanifested alcohol is in the truck.

paraphrased.

Also the Physical Control part tells me that you can not be inside your CMV while intoxicated if you have the keys to that CMV in your posession.

The ONE thing I didn't include is the phrase "be in physical control." I have admitted that I cannot find a definition of this in the regs, and I am not TOTALLY sure what they mean. But, there ARE some regs that MAY shed some light on it. I just can't get around to posting them for having to defend myself against someone who obviously cannot READ or COMPREHEND the regs as they are!

This MAY, in fact, be why so many drivers I see in truckstops who are laid over or on a reset, dolly down and SEPARATE their cab/sleeper from their trailers. By doing so, assuming they were under a load, they MAY meet the definition of "unladen."

The Sleeper berth may be our home away from home but it is not off duty actually. Off duty is just that according to my safety officer. Off Duty is being away from the truck. Ie hotel room, friends house, or at home.

Well.... I have PROVED that it IS! Your safety officer, and many others I have heard things from, CAN BE and often ARE wrong! One of them, making MORE money than me I'm sure, said that ALL time on either side of a break used to satisfy the 10 hour off duty requirement (when split logging,) MUST NOT EXCEED 14 hours! This misinformation has been dispelled here MANY times by those of us who DO understand English AND the regs! Here is why your safety directior is WRONG (unless it is a company policy.)

Question 22: A motor carrier relieves a driver from duty. What is a suitable facility for resting?

Guidance: The only resting facility which the FHWA regulates is the sleeper berth. The sleeper berth requirements can be found in §393.76.

This means that they don't even "regulate" resting in the passenger seat, and POSSIBLY not even the drivers seat as the CMV is not "in operation" if you are OFF DUTY.

When you are OFF DUTY, you can REST wherever you want. HOWEVER, IF you are going to say you were resting in a sleeper berth (particularly for the purpose of split logging,) the FMCSA has regulations concerning the size and dimensions of that berth! Read reg 393.76 and show me where the "regulations" of that sleeper berth say anything about what you can or cannot DO while in there.

I'm SURE that they could EASILY have answered question 22 by saying, "Anywhere BUT in the driving compartment of a CMV." But, they DIDN"T! They said, if effect, "We have NO regulations concerning your off duty resting place or activities OTHER than what constitutes an acceptable sleeper berth."

But then I am one that does not feel the need to have a brew at dinner time when out on the road. I keep the brew at home for when I have the grill fired up.

Neither am I. But then, I don't LIVE out of my truck for weeks at a time! If I DID, and spent my 34 hour "resets" on the road, I would want to know what the regs say about it. And I'm pretty sure that I DO!

[golfhobo]

Rev said:

You're kidding, right? You quote the regulation for when to log sleeper berth, then claim it is really off duty?

Are you just messin' with me now, Rev? Surely you can see that I quoted the regs as the FMCSA spelled them out. Can you see the two words in BIG TYPE that say OFF DUTY?? :roll:

If you are serious, then you are simply reading this WRONG!

This reg concerns HOW to log your OFF DUTY time. Since our logs are supposed to closely or accurately represent our actual activities, you are supposed to show what part of your OFF DUTY time is spent resting in the sleeper, as opposed to eating dinner or playing video games.

They are saying that a continuous line should be logged on line 1 to show your off duty time EXCEPT for any time spent resting in the sleeper, which you would then log a continuous line on line 2 for! Therefore, your OFF DUTY timeline can zig zag from line one to line 2 and back.

The FIRST example that comes to mind is a 34 hour reset. You go to line one at say 4 p.m. on a friday to start your reset, and stay there while you eat and shower and play games or whatever. THEN.... you "break" that continuous line on line 1 to show time OFF DUTY spent resting in your sleeper from say 11 p.m. to 8 a.m. THEN, you zig back up to line 1 to show that you are still off duty, but no longer sleeping, and you've gone sightseeing! So, you draw a continuous line on line 1, OFF DUTY, EXCEPT for the time you are in the sleeper which the reg CLEARLY states is STILL OFF DUTY time!

If sleeper berth time were NOT considered as OFF DUTY, then ANY time you logged in the sleeper during a 34 hour reset would VIOLATE the 34 hour OFF DUTY requirement! You ARE not, CANNOT, EVER, EVER be considered to be ON DUTY while logging time in the sleeper! :roll:

Second example: In split logging, you need two breaks that total 10 hours of OFF DUTY time. ONE of them HAS to be OFF DUTY time for a minimum of 8 hours in the sleeper, and the OTHER one HAS to be at least 2 consecutive hours which can be LOGGED on line 1 or 2 or any combination. But, that 2 hour break is considered OFF duty, REGARDLESS of where you spend it! (and so is the 8 hour break in the sleeper!) :roll:

I am absolutely SURE that I don't have to FURTHER explain this to YOU, or anyone ELSE here! You are just trying to keep me from addressing OTHER points of our discussion! :lol:

[Rev.Vassago]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

They are saying that a continuous line should be logged on line 1 to show your off duty time EXCEPT for any time spent resting in the sleeper, which you would then log a continuous line on line 2 for! Therefore, your OFF DUTY timeline can zig zag from line one to line 2 and back.

The FIRST example that comes to mind is a 34 hour reset. You go to line one at say 4 p.m. on a friday to start your reset, and stay there while you eat and shower and play games or whatever. THEN.... you "break" that continuous line on line 1 to show time OFF DUTY spent resting in your sleeper from say 11 p.m. to 8 a.m. THEN, you zig back up to line 1 to show that you are still off duty, but no longer sleeping, and you've gone sightseeing! So, you draw a continuous line on line 1, OFF DUTY, EXCEPT for the time you are in the sleeper which the reg CLEARLY states is STILL OFF DUTY time!

Yes, but we aren't talking about getting shitfaced outside of the truck - we are talking about drinking inside a CMV. The regs clearly state that you are logging one of two things while inside a CMV - on duty, or sleeper berth. The only exception they have provided for this is when you are using the CMV for personal conveyance, at which point you are allowed to log off duty, but only if you are using it for personal conveyance (driving to a motel while unladen, etc.). If you are in the cab, and you aren't using the vehicle for personal conveyance, you are on duty. The regs are very clear on this. That is my whole point, which you claimed you disagreed with. I am still waiting for you to cite a regulation that supports your statement.

[golfhobo]

Twilight Flyer said:

I'll ignore most of your post because it's nothing more than reactionary blather. You're mad because I don't agree with you.

No, I don't care whether you AGREE with me or not! I DO tend to "react" to prudish postings and misinformation.

But I will address this and I'll make sure I keep the attitude on par with yours.

Are you SURE you're UP to it?? It takes LOTS of practice! :wink:

I field, on average, several calls a year from other truckers or 4-wheelers, calling to inform me that they saw one of our drivers picking up a six pack or a bottle of wine or some other adult beverage and taking it out to their truck.

I am one recruiter.

In one company.

Oohh..... "SEVERAL" calls a year?? Like what.... 5 or 6? That must REALLY cut into your recruiting time! And CLEARLY shows there is a widespread problem in the industry! :roll:

Do the math and tell me how anyone needs beer nazis? :roll: There are a lot of drivers out there that agree with me and would rather see their chosen profession cleaned up instead of walked all over by someone that doesn't give a damn what the image is.

Well..... I've DONE the math, and 5 or 6 calls out of 250 or so days, per recruiter, doesn't sound like even a DENT in the number of calls you get from job applicants... and MAY not even be a DENT in the number of calls you get saying what a GOOD job one of your drivers did! :lol:

Now.... if ANY of those calls are about a guy who is stopping by a store while ENROUTE and/or LADEN, then you might want to be concerned! IF he's in a truckstop on a 2 1/2 day layover cuz you have no freight for him, well..... I got two words for YOU! :lol: (actually, I only said that to return YOUR "attitude.") :wink:

But, the FACT is...... a few calls a YEAR doesn't come CLOSE to what it would take in "beer Nazi" personnel if you seriously wanted to be able to enforce a zero tolerance policy! How many trucks does Heartland have? :roll:

Point is, having beer in the truck is stupid. Plain and simple. And my family shares the road with you.

Do they share the TRUCKSTOP with me?? I seriously DOUBT it! But, yes they DO share the road with me. Not speaking of YOUR family, of course, but where are all the Beer Nazi's keeping drunk 4wheelers (or just STOOPID ones,) from cutting me off - when I am soberly doing my job professionally??

I don't want you getting plowed in your sleeper because you had 1 beer too many while watching your football team get destroyed and then had no one around to take your keys away.

Oh.... so, you'd RATHER that I was one of the thousands of 4wheelers who have too many each night and DON"T have a place to sleep it off? Don't THEY share the road with your family, too??

What HAPPENED to you or your family to make you believe that a grown man can't be responsible enough to know when to say when and go to sleep for MORE than the required 4 hours from bottle to throttle? Why do SOME of you think that everyone who has a drink or two is a DRUNK? Or is it just a "religious" thing?? :shock: :roll:

Get it?

Yeah.... I "GET" that you have over-reacted to a "few" calls a year.... AND to my post! :lol:

You want to drink beer? Fine. Drink it at home. Sounds to me like you NEED it. Maybe you NEED to get help.

And maybe YOU "need" to get a clue! (and a "stickupyourbuttoscopy!") I've spent JUST as many "resets" without a beer as I have with a few! And you have NO idea.... and no RIGHT to tell me what I can do with my OFF DUTY time! :shock: :lol:

How's that. Was I as offensive as you? :roll:

Naw...... it's not in your "caped crusader" nature! :lol: Face it, Batman.... you're just TOO nice a guy to post like a JERK! That's what we have BigDiesel for! :wink:

[Rev.Vassago]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

Do they share the TRUCKSTOP with me?? I seriously DOUBT it! But, yes they DO share the road with me. Not speaking of YOUR family, of course, but where are all the Beer Nazi's keeping drunk 4wheelers (or just STOOPID ones,) from cutting me off - when I am soberly doing my job professionally??

Oh.... so, you'd RATHER that I was one of the thousands of 4wheelers who have too many each night and DON"T have a place to sleep it off? Don't THEY share the road with your family, too??

So now you're deflecting by pointing the finger at non-CDL holders. The last time I checked, this was a discussion of CDL holders drinking in their trucks, not a rant about people in cars who drink.

Where are you going to try to take this discussion next in your attempt to distract everyone from the fact that the regulations don't support you? :roll: