Hours of Service change?

[JewelsnTools]

Open question:
Have any of you heard about a ruling that prohibits the rolling of one day's hours over to the next day?
I've been able to do that since starting, but now am hearing that it's no more. Something like "use it or lose it," concerning a driver's hours??
Has there been an update of some sort on the Hours of Service rules? Help!

[Rev.Vassago]

Open question:
Have any of you heard about a ruling that prohibits the rolling of one day's hours over to the next day?
I've been able to do that since starting, but now am hearing that it's no more. Something like "use it or lose it," concerning a driver's hours??
Has there been an update of some sort on the Hours of Service rules? Help!

There have been no recent changes to the HOS rules. You can have 11 hours of driving within a 14 hour period, after which you must take 10 consecutive hours off duty or sleeper berth before you can drive again. You have 70 hours available within an 8 day period. You can reset your 70 hour clock with 34 consecutive hours off. I won't even get into split sleeper berth, as I don't think it is really what you are talking about anyway.

[Uturn2001]

The only thing I have heard like that was when the 14 hour rule was implemented and a lot of drivers who did not have a clue were running around telling people the same thing you mentioned.

[Orangetxguy]

Open question:
Have any of you heard about a ruling that prohibits the rolling of one day's hours over to the next day?
I've been able to do that since starting, but now am hearing that it's no more. Something like "use it or lose it," concerning a driver's hours?? Has there been an update of some sort on the Hours of Service rules? Help!

What..did someone tell you unused work hours are like unused cell minutes? I've been driving commercially since 1979, and have never heard of "roll over" hours. You have a regulation, that stipulates the number of "consecutive hours" you may be on-duty. That regulation has alwasy been in place. The changes to that regulation, which first occured in 2003, shortend the "on-duty" time from 15 hours to 14 hours, increased allowable drive time from 10 hours to 11 hours, lengthened the required "rest period" from 8 hours to 10 hours, and basicly made the "sleeper split" so confusing, that it is impractical to use it.

[flood]

made the "sleeper split" so confusing, that it is impractical to use it.

amen

[JewelsnTools]

I catch myself still believing practically everything the drivers tell me!

It's been a while, but I'd heard that the HOS rules were in some sort of limbo status for a certain period. Then, I put my head back down and kept plowing. I just wondered if something new had turned up.

Thanks for getting back to me on this one. It's a relief to know nothing's- at least so far- changed.
Jewels

[headborg]

Funny you ask about this-- you must be a Crete driver.

I say that because I just read a memo sent out- along with my pay settlement from the CEO:

MEMO DATED: MARCH 4, 2008
some interesting parts:

" .....With the high price of fuel customers are utilizing rail and intermodal whenever they can to save money."

Yeah, but shipping produce/parrishable goods by rail has always been --Dicey at best-- and will probably continue to be that way.

".....Therefore, the length of haul of the loads we are offered [I.E. will be offering YOU in the future] continues to get shorter.


"......As we attempt to maximize your daily available hours we may ask you to pick up a load or move a short haul trip to fill out the remaining hours in your day."

Well, this is nice as long as you can get the appointment worked out-- so as to not WASTE many hours the next day. Slicing the pie too many times makes for NO MONEY to The DRIVER for the week's efforts.

"if you have 3-4 hours left at the end of the day that represents over 30% of your earning potential for the day and it is beneficial to you and the company to find a way to use those hours."

yeah, that sounds good-- win/win. I can agree with all that. The problem is -- WHY do I have a couple hours remaining on "Various" days?

If I had appointment's scheduled at the beginning of my DAY- then pickup a load with MILES on it--- there would be NO left over hours during a day- I'd be driving full 11's/ and or not doing "over nighter's that actually take up 1.5 days or keep you sitting waiting for those badly scheduled appointments.

Here's why I ask-- are you a Crete Driver?

"With the existing HOS rules you either use or lose your hours."

"You can no longer push hours later into a day..".< that part of the sentence is correct because of the 14hour clock.

"or carry remaining hours over to another day."

B.S.-- What the fracking HOS rule is he talking about there?

IMHO-Just trying to convince drivers now- not only is the sleeper-berth split no longer- legal, but now you have no hours to carry over on your 70hour rule?

the memo goes on to talk about misuse of 34hour restart-- which I agree with completely about drivers not looking at their recap- and weighing the "cost/benefit" ratio--- i.e. pointless to set and "waste" 7 and 8's just to get
full 14's( expecially when the Boss is telling you right here-- YOU'RE NOT GOING TO NEED A WHOLE 11 HOURS to get the NEXT SHORT LOAD TO THE NEXT CONSIGNEE.

"It is in your best interest, if you can do so safely, to take whatever loads are available and fully utilize your remaining hours."

Again, the hard sell on SHORT FREIGHT! Cause, it just isn't gonna get any better. Yeah, I have to agree-- except if it's Friday and you just delivered to-say, California and you're only got 3 hours left Friday, 5 saturday, 5 sunday. And they offer you a short load that delivers Saturday( thus breaking up your weekend(and little hope of a follow up load Sunday)--- here I can see-- just passing on the SHORT :dung: -- and holding out for something better-- Saturday Morning( Carrying over those 3 hours to Sat- or even doing a reset!

"Again, you either use or lose your available hours"---

Who they trying to kid? (actually, IMHO they are trying to convince you--you can't carry over unused hours to the next day-- which is pretty unethical. And they don't want you doing "34-hour" resets unless you're home. I've know that all along.

[mike3fan]

The only thing I can think of that they might be talking about with carrying over hours is if you run up against your 14hr clock and have not driven your 10-11 hours you lose those available "driving hours"?

[JewelsnTools]

I am a Crete driver, so you've nailed it. And that's precisely the obtuse, "like reading through mud" letter that inspired my concerns.
While I agree that it's to both of our benefit that I work to use all my available driving time, I don't care to be sprayed with bovine stool about it...
Again, thanks for all of your thoughts. It's hard to separate truth from fiction in this industry--especially when "patties" are being handed down from the top.
Jewels

[headborg]

The only thing I can think of that they might be talking about with carrying over hours is if you run up against your 14hr clock and have not driven your 10-11 hours you lose those available "driving hours"?

lets think about this for a moment.....

if you only get paid for driving the truck...

How did you "run up against" your 14?

drive a very short distance?(short haul) then spend many hours at shippers/consignee?

did you actually LOG those hours ON DUTY NOT DRIVING?

sounds like a win/lose job to me.

Let me guess, you also shut off the engine(save the company fuel) & throw in a little unpaid driver assist unloading.

Now the company made out like a bandit-- they charged a flat rate for that short haul-- saved money on fuel & only paid you for couple hundred miles--

[JewelsnTools]

HB,
You make that sound so...dirty. Like it's a bad thing!

[ihatefordtrucks]

It's very simple, just like the first guy said. You have a 14 hour window, in which you may drive a total of 11 hours. If you start your day at 6 AM, you must not drive the truck after 8 PM that day, and may not resume driving until 10 hours later (6 AM the next day)... and during that 14 hours, you may drive, at the very most, 11 hours. The other three hours can be spent however you please, working(not driving), sleeping, or off duty. There is no "carry-over" whatsoever.

[headborg]

It's very simple, just like the first guy said. You have a 14 hour window, in which you may drive a total of 11 hours. If you start your day at 6 AM, you must not drive the truck after 8 PM that day, and may not resume driving until 10 hours later (6 AM the next day)... and during that 14 hours, you may drive, at the very most, 11 hours. The other three hours can be spent however you please, working(not driving), sleeping, or off duty. There is no "carry-over" whatsoever.

there is --"carry-over" when you start looking at 70hour rule.

let's say- you have 20hrs left avail on your 70- you work 8.75

how many did you "carry over" to tomorrow?

now, lets say you only have 11 left on your 70 and work 8.75 and are picking up from 8th day past-- 5 hrs
now, how many you got tomorrow?

the 14 is just a clock- a boundry between the time when you start and have to finish DRIVING.

THERE IS NO..."USE OR LOSE" your WORK HOURS

you do not "deduct" a full 14 from your 70 every day.

you might use or misuse "unwisely" your available hours.
certainly you can't EXTEND your 14 hour CLOCK---

[headborg]

It's very simple, just like the first guy said. You have a 14 hour window, in which you may drive a total of 11 hours. If you start your day at 6 AM, you must not drive the truck after 8 PM that day, and may not resume driving until 10 hours later (6 AM the next day)... and during that 14 hours, you may drive, at the very most, 11 hours. The other three hours can be spent however you please, working(not driving), sleeping, or off duty. There is no "carry-over" whatsoever.

yes, technically there can be "carry-over"--- if you take a 8hour sleeper berth break-- that will extend your 14hr clock --possibly into "tomorrow"- and crete rules do allow this PART of the sleep birth exception/provision-- because is suits the interest of the company.

Example: Load-1-you drive 7hrs into a consignee- get empty.(2pm) ( you got 4hrs remaining to drive on your 11, and lets say 6.5 on your 14.
Crete has a load#2- 15 miles away going 200 loaded miles short haul- for 5am delivery. You arrive at shipper and they detain you 3hours loading-Can you deliver this legal? Yes- if you extend your 14 by taking a 8hr break(stopping your 14hr clock.

This is a method of fully utilizing "your available" hours.

However, according to Crete Company policy-- once you've taken a 8hr break to "extend" your clock--- you're not allowed to follow it up with a 2hr break(to total 10)-- instead you will be required to take another FULL 10 hr break----

so boys and girls, you made your appointment on time at 5am- but now are unavailable for dispatch until 3pm now.

So was that 200 mile over-niter worth it? because now-- they got their ld delivered and it's cost you another 10hrs down time....it's now 3pm and most of all the load offers have gone out this morning. And instead of you
"carrying over" unused hours and having them ready at say 7am....you're 200 down the highway- and all that's left is another 200 mile load :wink:

[Cat6869]

It's very simple, just like the first guy said. You have a 14 hour window, in which you may drive a total of 11 hours. If you start your day at 6 AM, you must not drive the truck after 8 PM that day, and may not resume driving until 10 hours later (6 AM the next day)... and during that 14 hours, you may drive, at the very most, 11 hours. The other three hours can be spent however you please, working(not driving), sleeping, or off duty. There is no "carry-over" whatsoever.

yes, technically there can be "carry-over"--- if you take a 8hour sleeper berth break-- that will extend your 14hr clock --possibly into "tomorrow"- and crete rules do allow this PART of the sleep birth exception/provision-- because is suits the interest of the company.

Example: Load-1-you drive 7hrs into a consignee- get empty.(2pm) ( you got 4hrs remaining to drive on your 11, and lets say 6.5 on your 14.
Crete has a load#2- 15 miles away going 200 loaded miles short haul- for 5am delivery. You arrive at shipper and they detain you 3hours loading-Can you deliver this legal? Yes- if you extend your 14 by taking a 8hr break(stopping your 14hr clock.

This is a method of fully utilizing "your available" hours.

However, according to Crete Company policy-- once you've taken a 8hr break to "extend" your clock--- you're not allowed to follow it up with a 2hr break(to total 10)-- instead you will be required to take another FULL 10 hr break----

so boys and girls, you made your appointment on time at 5am- but now are unavailable for dispatch until 3pm now.

So was that 200 mile over-niter worth it? because now-- they got their ld delivered and it's cost you another 10hrs down time....it's now 3pm and most of all the load offers have gone out this morning. And instead of you
"carrying over" unused hours and having them ready at say 7am....you're 200 down the highway- and all that's left is another 200 mile load :wink:

Thats not fair to the driver and the company is stupid for not letting you split break any further. Why would they make you shut down for 10 when you only have to shut down for 2! It doesn't make sense to me! The driver loses money and the company loses money

I hate when a company or person says split breaking is stupid or you can't do it. It's not fair to the driver! The companies need to be training you on how to split break so you can utilize the loads given to the best you can. Understanding them is the issue, but it's the easiest thing to do! You just have to study a minute and once you get it, it's like duh I can't believe it's that simple to figure out

[headborg]

they've done their risk vs reward number crunching--- and it seems to suggest(and the violation data supports it) that the #1 area where drivers have made a mistake is trying to do the split sleeper- the company just doesn't want to risk a violation/ DOT log audit or fines for it. So they've "cherry picked"( what their best at) and came up with the best parts for themselves. Remember, it's hard to find drivers willing to run Short Freight expecially when there's longer loads available. the more they can stretch you out- like the above example-- the more late afternoon/early morning over-nites you'll be stuck in that "routine".