logging no no?

[kc0iv]

Any time you start driving the vehicle, including after a 10 hour break or any other change of duty status, you are required to inspect the vehicle. Technically, mdgardner is correct, as you need to inspect the vehicle after a 10 hour break or more. What he isn't taking into account is that you also need to inspect it after a break of less than 10 hours, or any other time you are going to drive the vehicle.

OK -- Chapter and verse please.

kc0iv

[Skywalker]

The answer to a possible rebuttal: In the event a DOT officer wants proof that I stayed in a motel....

Why would a DOT officer want proof that you stayed in a motel? There's no FMCSA regulation that says you have to.

Thank you....my point exactly. But, as said...."in the event"....its not that hard to acquire. I can only see where it would become a worthwhile issue in a truly strange situation...... 8)

[Fredog]

The answer to a possible rebuttal: In the event a DOT officer wants proof that I stayed in a motel....

Why would a DOT officer want proof that you stayed in a motel? There's no FMCSA regulation that says you have to.

Thank you....my point exactly. But, as said...."in the event"....its not that hard to acquire. I can only see where it would become a worthwhile issue in a truly strange situation...... 8)

like a hooker said you beat and robbed her at 10 pm on 3rd street, but your hotel receipt shows you checked in at 10 pm on 145th street, that might come in handy

[Skywalker]

Any time you start driving the vehicle, including after a 10 hour break or any other change of duty status, you are required to inspect the vehicle. Technically, mdgardner is correct, as you need to inspect the vehicle after a 10 hour break or more. What he isn't taking into account is that you also need to inspect it after a break of less than 10 hours, or any other time you are going to drive the vehicle.

I am in agreement with you on this, because in my slightly "distrustful and paranoid" view of the world.....I think that any driver who "fails" to give his or her rig a good once over before driving it again....if they have been out of sight of it for more than a minute or three....is making a serious mistake.

I think what the real issue is, is this: How many times in a 24 hour period are you required to show the event on your logbook? I know that changing trailers/tanks....or changing tractors require logging. Pretrips do, but a postrip can be flagged. Walkarounds I flag as "Saftey Checks" as they require less than 7 minutes.

[Rev.Vassago]

Any time you start driving the vehicle, including after a 10 hour break or any other change of duty status, you are required to inspect the vehicle. Technically, mdgardner is correct, as you need to inspect the vehicle after a 10 hour break or more. What he isn't taking into account is that you also need to inspect it after a break of less than 10 hours, or any other time you are going to drive the vehicle.

OK -- Chapter and verse please.

kc0iv

I already posted it. Twice.

§396.13 Driver inspection.


Before driving a motor vehicle, the driver shall:

§396.11 Driver Vehicle Inspection Report(s)

Question 2: Does §396.11 require that the power unit and the trailer be inspected?

Guidance: Yes. A driver must be satisfied that both the power unit and the trailer are in safe operating condition before operating the combination.

"Before operating the vehicle", and "Before operating the combination" means exactly what it says - you inspect before you operate. Doesn't matter if you were away from the vehicle 10 minutes, 10 hours, or 10 days. You inspect before you operate.

[Rev.Vassago]

I think what the real issue is, is this: How many times in a 24 hour period are you required to show the event on your logbook? I know that changing trailers/tanks....or changing tractors require logging. Pretrips do, but a postrip can be flagged. Walkarounds I flag as "Saftey Checks" as they require less than 7 minutes.

You should really be showing the event every time it occurs, even if it is just a flag. Is that going to happen? Probably not.

[mdgardner963]

OK now lets see if you work 10 hours and stop for 10 hours is it a new day? Answer is yes i am only putting out how i intrupit the law not how anyone else does.. Thank you for your help... I do apperciate i know most do not understand but i stop every couple and check things bounce a hammer off my tires. But in the norm i drive 9.5 each day and work up to 10 hours total. If what i said makes sense then god help us all!

I have only one RULE Safe safe safe. I am still a rookie only been out a a few years :twisted: Class of 1997

[kc0iv]

Rev I know you like a good debate. However, as in any debate one should understand what the subject is addressing. As an example your use of 396.13 Driver inspection. There are three points to this rule. Point one

(a) Be satisfied that the motor vehicle is in safe operating condition;

Which you claim in this discussion.

Point two

(b) Review the last driver vehicle inspection report; and

Seems you missed this point. When was the last driver vehicle inspection report written? Are you saying every time you move the vehicle you fill-out a vehicle inspection report?

Point three

(c) Sign the report, only if defects or deficiencies were noted by the driver who prepared the report, to acknowledge that the driver has reviewed it and that there is a certification that the required repairs have been performed. The signature requirement does not apply to listed defects on a towed unit which is no longer part of the vehicle combination.[/color]

Did you sign the report if you found any defects or deficiencies since you had the defects or deficiencies?

Now addressing your second claim.

Looking at 396.11 Driver vehicle inspection report(s). When is this report required? Well lets look at what the rule requires.

(a) Report required. Every motor carrier shall require its drivers to report, and every driver shall prepare a report in writing at the completion of each day's work on each vehicle operated and the report shall cover at least the following parts and accessories:

Did you notice this report is required at the completion of each day's work. Notice it didn't say "Doesn't matter if you were away from the vehicle 10 minutes, 10 hours, or 10 days. You inspect before you operate." Which is what the Q&A guidance is speaking about you attempted to use. But for the sake of this discussion let's look at this Q&A.

Question 1: Does §396.11 require the DVIR to be turned in each day by a driver dispatched on a trip of more than one day's duration?

Did you notice when and how many times the DVIR is required? Each day. Not every time the driver is away from the vehicle as you claim.

Looking farther down the Q&A notice Question 24.

Question 24: How would the DVIR requirements apply to a driver who works two or more shifts in a single calendar day?

Guidance: §396.11(a) requires every driver to prepare a DVIR at the completion of each day's work on each vehicle operated. A driver who operates two or more vehicles in a 24-hour-period must prepare a DVIR at the completion of the tour of duty in each vehicle.[/color]

Notice here it clearly says one DVIR per vehicle in a 24 hour period.

Going farther down the Q&A.

Question 25: §396.11 requires the driver, at the completion of each day's work, to prepare a written report on each vehicle operated that day. Does this section require a "post trip inspection" of the kind described in §396.15?

Guidance: No. However, the written report must include all defects in the parts and accessories listed in §396.11(a) that were discovered by or reported to the driver during that day.[/color]

Did you notice "requires the driver, at the completion of each day's work,"? Again didn't say "Doesn't matter if you were away from the vehicle 10 minutes, 10 hours, or 10 days. You inspect before you operate."

Guidance: A driver must prepare a DVIR at the completion of each day's work and shall submit those reports to the motor carrier upon his/her return to the home terminal. This does not relieve the motor carrier from the responsibility of effecting repairs and certification of any items listed on the DVIR, prepared at the end of each day's work, that would be likely to affect the safety of the operation of the motor vehicle.

Continuing on with 396.11 Driver vehicle inspection report(s).

(b) Report content. The report shall identify the vehicle and list any defect or deficiency discovered by or reported to the driver which would affect the safety of operation of the vehicle or result in its mechanical breakdown. If no defect or deficiency is discovered by or reported to the driver, the report shall so indicate. In all instances, the driver shall sign the report. On two-driver operations, only one driver needs to sign the driver vehicle inspection report, provided both drivers agree as to the defects or deficiencies identified. If a driver operates more than one vehicle during the day, a report shall be prepared for each vehicle operated.

Here I think is the key. "If a driver operates more than one vehicle during the day,a report shall be prepared for each vehicle operated." One report for each vehicle. Not the same vehicle several times each day.

While I am sure you would like the rules to say more but that isn't what they say. If you want to do a DVIR every time you stop so be it. But the rules don't require it.

kc0iv

[Fredog]

Rev I know you like a good debate. However, as in any debate one should understand what the subject is addressing. As an example your use of 396.13 Driver inspection. There are three points to this rule. Point one

(a) Be satisfied that the motor vehicle is in safe operating condition;

Which you claim in this discussion.

Point two

(b) Review the last driver vehicle inspection report; and

Seems you missed this point. When was the last driver vehicle inspection report written? Are you saying every time you move the vehicle you fill-out a vehicle inspection report?

Point three

(c) Sign the report, only if defects or deficiencies were noted by the driver who prepared the report, to acknowledge that the driver has reviewed it and that there is a certification that the required repairs have been performed. The signature requirement does not apply to listed defects on a towed unit which is no longer part of the vehicle combination.[/color]

Did you sign the report if you found any defects or deficiencies since you had the defects or deficiencies?

Now addressing your second claim.

Looking at 396.11 Driver vehicle inspection report(s). When is this report required? Well lets look at what the rule requires.

(a) Report required. Every motor carrier shall require its drivers to report, and every driver shall prepare a report in writing at the completion of each day's work on each vehicle operated and the report shall cover at least the following parts and accessories:

Did you notice this report is required at the completion of each day's work. Notice it didn't say "Doesn't matter if you were away from the vehicle 10 minutes, 10 hours, or 10 days. You inspect before you operate." Which is what the Q&A guidance is speaking about you attempted to use. But for the sake of this discussion let's look at this Q&A.

Question 1: Does §396.11 require the DVIR to be turned in each day by a driver dispatched on a trip of more than one day's duration?

Did you notice when and how many times the DVIR is required? Each day. Not every time the driver is away from the vehicle as you claim.

Looking farther down the Q&A notice Question 24.

Question 24: How would the DVIR requirements apply to a driver who works two or more shifts in a single calendar day?

Guidance: §396.11(a) requires every driver to prepare a DVIR at the completion of each day's work on each vehicle operated. A driver who operates two or more vehicles in a 24-hour-period must prepare a DVIR at the completion of the tour of duty in each vehicle.[/color]

Notice here it clearly says one DVIR per vehicle in a 24 hour period.

Going farther down the Q&A.

Question 25: §396.11 requires the driver, at the completion of each day's work, to prepare a written report on each vehicle operated that day. Does this section require a "post trip inspection" of the kind described in §396.15?

Guidance: No. However, the written report must include all defects in the parts and accessories listed in §396.11(a) that were discovered by or reported to the driver during that day.[/color]

Did you notice "requires the driver, at the completion of each day's work,"? Again didn't say "Doesn't matter if you were away from the vehicle 10 minutes, 10 hours, or 10 days. You inspect before you operate."

Guidance: A driver must prepare a DVIR at the completion of each day's work and shall submit those reports to the motor carrier upon his/her return to the home terminal. This does not relieve the motor carrier from the responsibility of effecting repairs and certification of any items listed on the DVIR, prepared at the end of each day's work, that would be likely to affect the safety of the operation of the motor vehicle.

Continuing on with 396.11 Driver vehicle inspection report(s).

(b) Report content. The report shall identify the vehicle and list any defect or deficiency discovered by or reported to the driver which would affect the safety of operation of the vehicle or result in its mechanical breakdown. If no defect or deficiency is discovered by or reported to the driver, the report shall so indicate. In all instances, the driver shall sign the report. On two-driver operations, only one driver needs to sign the driver vehicle inspection report, provided both drivers agree as to the defects or deficiencies identified. If a driver operates more than one vehicle during the day, a report shall be prepared for each vehicle operated.

Here I think is the key. "If a driver operates more than one vehicle during the day,a report shall be prepared for each vehicle operated." One report for each vehicle. Not the same vehicle several times each day.

While I am sure you would like the rules to say more but that isn't what they say. If you want to do a DVIR every time you stop so be it. But the rules don't require it.

kc0iv

I picked up a trailer friday that I have never pulled before, the annual inspection sticker was dated 2000. I guess the previous drivers didnt do pretrips
with Revs' system, that would never have happened

[Rev.Vassago]

Rev I know you like a good debate. However, as in any debate one should understand what the subject is addressing. As an example your use of 396.13 Driver inspection. There are three points to this rule. Point one

(a) Be satisfied that the motor vehicle is in safe operating condition;

Which you claim in this discussion.

I do.

(b) Review the last driver vehicle inspection report; and

Seems you missed this point. When was the last driver vehicle inspection report written? Are you saying every time you move the vehicle you fill-out a vehicle inspection report?

No.

(c) Sign the report, only if defects or deficiencies were noted by the driver who prepared the report, to acknowledge that the driver has reviewed it and that there is a certification that the required repairs have been performed. The signature requirement does not apply to listed defects on a towed unit which is no longer part of the vehicle combination.

Did you sign the report if you found any defects or deficiencies since you had the defects or deficiencies?

If you have deficiencies that were noted on a DIVR, you must sign the report and acknowledge that the repairs were made before the vehicle is operated. If no defects or deficiencies exist, then no signing is necessary.

Now addressing your second claim.

Looking at 396.11 Driver vehicle inspection report(s). When is this report required? Well lets look at what the rule requires.

(a) Report required. Every motor carrier shall require its drivers to report, and every driver shall prepare a report in writing at the completion of each day's work on each vehicle operated and the report shall cover at least the following parts and accessories:

Did you notice this report is required at the completion of each day's work. Notice it didn't say "Doesn't matter if you were away from the vehicle 10 minutes, 10 hours, or 10 days. You inspect before you operate." Which is what the Q&A guidance is speaking about you attempted to use. But for the sake of this discussion let's look at this Q&A.

Question 1: Does §396.11 require the DVIR to be turned in each day by a driver dispatched on a trip of more than one day's duration?

Did you notice when and how many times the DVIR is required? Each day. Not every time the driver is away from the vehicle as you claim.

I never claimed a DIVR was required any time the driver was away from the vehicle. I claimed an inspection was required. There is a difference.

Looking farther down the Q&A notice Question 24.

Question 24: How would the DVIR requirements apply to a driver who works two or more shifts in a single calendar day?

Guidance: §396.11(a) requires every driver to prepare a DVIR at the completion of each day's work on each vehicle operated. A driver who operates two or more vehicles in a 24-hour-period must prepare a DVIR at the completion of the tour of duty in each vehicle.

Notice here it clearly says one DVIR per vehicle in a 24 hour period.

Your point? I never stated that multiple DIVR's were required in a 24 hour period.

Going farther down the Q&A.

Question 25: §396.11 requires the driver, at the completion of each day's work, to prepare a written report on each vehicle operated that day. Does this section require a "post trip inspection" of the kind described in §396.15?

Guidance: No. However, the written report must include all defects in the parts and accessories listed in §396.11(a) that were discovered by or reported to the driver during that day.[/color]

[color=green]Did you notice "requires the driver, at the completion of each day's work,"? Again didn't say "Doesn't matter if you were away from the vehicle 10 minutes, 10 hours, or 10 days. You inspect before you operate."

Apparently you are having difficulty with the difference between an inspection report and an inspection. They aren't the same thing.

While I am sure you would like the rules to say more but that isn't what they say. If you want to do a DVIR every time you stop so be it. But the rules don't require it.

Show me where I stated that a DIVR was required every time you stopped a vehicle.

[mdgardner963]

I was only stating what i know.. I am not looking for stuff. Safty is the drivers responsabity period. If not checking your equipment you should just get the heck out of the bussiness.

[Cat6869]

Lets make sure you "all" understand!

The vehicle inspection is NOT to be done in a "24 hour period".

There is a pre-trip that MUST be done PRIOR to getting behind the wheel
&
A post-trip should be done @ the end of each days working time for the day.

The post-trip is the one you should be inspecting EVERYTHING!
The pre-trip is the one you should be walking around to make sure nothing went wrong or if repaires was needed you should do a full inspection "again".

The vehicle daily inspection should be filled out @ the END of the day as the pre-trip does not need to be done in writting, but if repairs was needed on the post-trip you need to sign off on the inspection report that everything is fine and safe for YOU to drive!

[mdgardner963]

Um you better read up deary. post and pre are one in the same.

[Fredog]

OK now lets see if you work 10 hours and stop for 10 hours is it a new day? Answer is yes i am only putting out how i intrupit the law not how anyone else does.. Thank you for your help... I do apperciate i know most do not understand but i stop every couple and check things bounce a hammer off my tires. But in the norm i drive 9.5 each day and work up to 10 hours total. If what i said makes sense then god help us all!

I have only one RULE Safe safe safe. I am still a rookie only been out a a few years :twisted: Class of 1997

WOW! and you already know everything

[Rev.Vassago]

Um you better read up deary. post and pre are one in the same.

ROFL

You really should shut up already. It's clear you have no idea what you are talking about. The FMCSA rules are very clear on what a pre trip covers, and what a post trip covers. The items they cover are not the same.

[Rev.Vassago]

I have only one RULE Safe safe safe. I am still a rookie only been out a a few years :twisted: Class of 1997

That's interesting......

In this thread, you stated:

Like i said before i just do what dot and doj tells me to to do. i have only been doing it for a little while.. same way since the new law took affect. Class of 72

So in one thread you started in 1997, in another thread, you started in 1972. In both threads, you have no idea what you are talking about.

[kc0iv]

Um you better read up deary. post and pre are one in the same.

Sorry mdgardner963 there is a pre-trip inspection (see 392.7) and there is a post inspection (see 396.11) as Cat6869 said.

§396.11 Driver vehicle inspection report(s).

(a) Report required. Every motor carrier shall require its drivers to report, and every driver shall prepare a report in writing at the completion of each day's work on each vehicle operated and the report shall cover at least the following parts and accessories:

§392.7 Equipment, inspection and use.

No commercial motor vehicle shall be driven unless the driver is satisfied that the following parts and accessories are in good working order, nor shall any driver fail to use or make use of such parts and accessories when and as needed:

kc0iv

[Cat6869]

Part 392


< 392.6 392.8 >

§392.7 Equipment, inspection and use.


No commercial motor vehicle shall be driven unless the driver is satisfied that the following parts and accessories are in good working order, nor shall any driver fail to use or make use of such parts and accessories when and as needed:

Service brakes, including trailer brake connections.

Parking (hand) brake.

Steering mechanism.

Lighting devices and reflectors.

Tires.

Horn.

Windshield wiper or wipers.

Rear-vision mirror or mirrors.

Coupling devices.

§396.11 Driver vehicle inspection report(s).


(a) Report required. Every motor carrier shall require its drivers to report, and every driver shall prepare a report in writing at the completion of each day's work on each vehicle operated and the report shall cover at least the following parts and accessories:

Service brakes including trailer brake connections

Parking (hand) brake

Steering mechanism

Lighting devices and reflectors

Tires

Horn

Windshield wipers

Rear vision mirrors

Coupling devices

Wheels and rims

Emergency equipment

(b) Report content. The report shall identify the vehicle and list any defect or deficiency discovered by or reported to the driver which would affect the safety of operation of the vehicle or result in its mechanical breakdown. If no defect or deficiency is discovered by or reported to the driver, the report shall so indicate. In all instances, the driver shall sign the report. On two-driver operations, only one driver needs to sign the driver vehicle inspection report, provided both drivers agree as to the defects or deficiencies identified. If a driver operates more than one vehicle during the day, a report shall be prepared for each vehicle operated.

(c) Corrective action. Prior to requiring or permitting a driver to operate a vehicle, every motor carrier or its agent shall repair any defect or deficiency listed on the driver vehicle inspection report which would be likely to affect the safety of operation of the vehicle.

(1) Every motor carrier or its agent shall certify on the original driver vehicle inspection report which lists any defect or deficiency that the defect or deficiency has been repaired or that repair is unnecessary before the vehicle is operated again.

(2) Every motor carrier shall maintain the original driver vehicle inspection report, the certification of repairs, and the certification of the driver's review for three months from the date the written report was prepared.

(d) Exceptions. The rules in this section shall not apply to a private motor carrier of passengers (nonbusiness), a driveaway-towaway operation, or any motor carrier operating only one commercial motor vehicle.


If you notice between the 2 inspections the pre-trip does not require you to check the wheels and rims and it does not require you to check the emergency equimpent

The best advice I can give a driver is by inspecting your equipment at the end of the day is preparing you better for your next 14 hour period. Keep in mind time waiting for a tow truck or getting repairs is line 4. If you wait and find something wrong on your pre-trip then you will be eating your 14 hour away by getting repairs done to your equipment.

Remember you can be on line 4 all you want passed the 14th hour. So if the truck needs repaired it's just going to go against your 70, just the same if you got it repaired on your pre-trip. I hear to many drivers get in a hurry because hey I got a load I am gone, they don't check their equipment (shame on them). Well on your post-trip what kind of hurry are you really in? Yeah I know getting your 10 hour break over with, well write dot and tell them your 10 hour break should include your pre-trip & post-trip and maybe we will get somewhere, just my humble opinioin.

The pre-trip is to make sure everything was repaired if there was repairs needed. The truck or trailer should not be driven unless they was repaired or it's shame on the company

[Rev.Vassago]

The truck or trailer should not be driven unless they was repaired or it's shame on the company

No, it's shame on the driver.

[Fredog]

The truck or trailer should not be driven unless they was repaired or it's shame on the company

No, it's shame on the driver.

but if it's day 8 then you gain back all the repairs that you had done on day one and you dont have to worry about it. that's how I been doing it since 1972 or 1997 or whatever year I started