HELP! A Problem In Canada. Any Advice Welcome.

[Lucky Lindy 66]

This is what happened (allegedly):

1.) I am an American Truck Driver (Strike 1).

2.) I was pulled into the South Windsor Weigh Station at 2330 on 10.21.2007 and cited for
Operating an unsafe commercial vehicle (No Set Fine/ Must Appear Or Have Representation Appear). It was listed on the report that I failed to surrender a current inspection as well but I don't think I was charged with that as it was not listed on the ticket. The trailer I was pulling had multiple loose lug nuts.

3.) The companies attitude is "sorry about your luck". I am obviously seeking employment elsewhere.

4.) In September there was service done to the trailer by in Jenison, MI. by a trailer repair facility. On 10.17.2007 the driver that had the trailer took it to a truck stop in Earle, Arkansas and had 3 missing lugs replaced. It is obvious that the original vendor did not torque the lugs down properly and that the truck stop failed to inspect the trailer properly (not that I did either obviously).

5.) I did a pre-trip inspection on the trailer and listed it on my log 2 hours prior to the Ministry Inspection ( I had just picked the trailer up in Carleton, Michigan). My logs clearly states that I am not to sign the log until the day is complete. I still had .5 hours to go when I was stopped. I was told that I still had to sign it because they could not tell if I had done it or not otherwise.

6.) I am being considered for a job with a reputable company. One of the main reasons they are considering me is because I am a law abiding citizen who is able to travel and drive in Canada, as well as the fact that I hold a valid U.S. Passport. I need this cleared up. I have traveled extensively in Canada and love the country and its people. There is no way that I would intentionally endanger any human being. It was an oversight on multiple levels with me being on the bottom. I am grateful to the officer who caught the problem as it could have resulted in a tragedy.

I only wish the fine were stated so I could pay it and move on with another lesson learned.

I contacted a Barrister (Lawyer) in Windsor who quoted me a $2500.00 fee. Needless to say I am broke, with a wedding planned in February and a date with a Judge in Windsor in January!. My questions are as follows:


1.) Does anyone know what the fines usually run for an offense of this type. It looks like I may have to represent myself in the matter. I read an article that said they usually run about $80.00 to $300.00. I know that if I elected to leave the scene it would be an additional $400.00. I can't understand why that offense is set.

2.) Does anyone know whether the courts in Ontario will plea bargain (with or without being there)?

3.) If I do have to retain a Barrister does anyone know any reasonably priced ones in Windsor (I know you get what you pay for)?

4.) Is this charge considered a moving violation?

Operate unsafe combination of vehicles 230.84

5.) Will crying help?

As I stated in the subject line: Any advice is welcome

[Uturn2001]

I can see why the unsafe vehicle charge would be one without a set fine and the other you mentioned would have a set fine.

The reason being is that operating an unsafe vehicle covers a lot of ground and I would be willing to bet the fines are in accordance to exactly how unsafe the vehicle is.

Moving when in an Out of Service status is a simple charge. Regardless of the reason you were placed OOS if you choose to violate that order you have violated a single plain order. Hence the ability to set a specific fine.

If you are not going to contest the charges what I would do if I were you is appear myself and plead guilty and be done with it. You may be able to get an idea of what your fine will be and whether or not if it is considered a moving violation in Canada by contacting the court in which you are scheduled to appear.

[Lucky Lindy 66]

Thanks for the advice. I can't even afford a cell right now, but will have one this week. I was waiting for that before I contacted the court because I am sure it will require a returned phone call. There is no doubt that the vehicle was unsafe.

[bikerboy]

Your first mistake was rolling through an ontario weigh station, Ontario is known for being azzholes, i avoid or go around all ontario scales if i know they are open, just less hassles that way!
Windsor and putnam scales on 401 are known as the worst scales on the 401
They just opened a new scale on the 402 at sarnia too, so another one to avoid. It's real easy to get around too

Ontario just brought in some stupid new law that requires a special prettrip sheet that is unique for ontario, that likely why they wrote down you failed to provide a proper pretrip.
I don't even have the proper pre trip forms yet, so i don't go through ontario scales.

They also have some stupid new law that requires you have the truck and trailer licence plate number, not unit numbers, on your log sheets.

Your lucky you didn't lose a wheel, as the max fine is $50 000 for losing a wheel in ontario.

Who was your ticket wrote to? i thought it should go to the company.
I got an overweight ticket once and it was written to the carrier.

I would rather avoid the scales than risk going in and them finding something like silly paperwork BS

I do roll through all USA scales tho, they don't have near as bad of rep as ontario does for being *****s!

[Lucky Lindy 66]

UPDATE:

Yes I am very lucky I did not lose a wheel. I think the lugs that were replaced would have held but who knows. They are seeking 3000 from me. I go to court next week. I will withhold all judgments on Ontario and the judicial system there until I have a final verdict. I knew about the inspection sheet and qualcomed the dm about it prior to rolling. They never mentioned that at the scale. Both I and the carrier (GAINEY) are being charged. Their date is 01.14.2008. The thing that amazes me most is the scheduled fines.

Operating a Commercial Vehicle W/O a CDL =$310

"Insecure" Load (I assume this is supposed to be unsecure)= $310

http://www.ontariocourts.on.ca/ontar...chedule_43.htm

The latter is the one that gets me.

I have never tried to say that I was free of guilt in this thing. I SCREWED UP! Now "The Crown" is trying to take 10% of my before tax income. I would prefer never to roll or see Canada again. I used to love going there. The company I am with now is the best Trucking and one of the best overall that I have ever worked for. They need me to go there and I will, but I will never feel the same. I feel like a rape victim at this point.

[Professor427]

Now Lindy, I'm a little confused how you're getting screwed. You did such a piss poor pre-trip inspection that you didn't notice loose lug nuts and could have killed some innnocent family on 401 when the tire came flying off.
Now here's a thought: suck it up, pay the fine, and try harder to act like a professional when you inspect your truck; figure out what the necessary paperwork is in a foreign country; and stop pissing and moaning about how you can't afford the fine. Some poor smuck couldn't afford to die, either but you could have killed him. Consider yourself lucky you're not sitting in a Canadian jail, awaiting trial on vehicular homicide and suffering nightmares from the horror of the accident scene.
As for bikerboy, knobs like you have been around forever, bragging about "running the scales" and what a badass trucker you are. All you do is hurt the image of an industry that already gets too much negative press. Running safe trucks within reasonable hours of service is what a professional does; the other is just Billy Big Rig bull crap.

[sam william]

http://www.pointts.com/windsor.htm

may be this can help you

[Cat6869]

This is what happened (allegedly):

1.) I am an American Truck Driver (Strike 1).

2.) I was pulled into the South Windsor Weigh Station at 2330 on 10.21.2007 and cited for
Operating an unsafe commercial vehicle (No Set Fine/ Must Appear Or Have Representation Appear). It was listed on the report that I failed to surrender a current inspection as well but I don't think I was charged with that as it was not listed on the ticket. The trailer I was pulling had multiple loose lug nuts.

3.) The companies attitude is "sorry about your luck". I am obviously seeking employment elsewhere.

4.) In September there was service done to the trailer by in Jenison, MI. by a trailer repair facility. On 10.17.2007 the driver that had the trailer took it to a truck stop in Earle, Arkansas and had 3 missing lugs replaced. It is obvious that the original vendor did not torque the lugs down properly and that the truck stop failed to inspect the trailer properly (not that I did either obviously).

5.) I did a pre-trip inspection on the trailer and listed it on my log 2 hours prior to the Ministry Inspection ( I had just picked the trailer up in Carleton, Michigan). My logs clearly states that I am not to sign the log until the day is complete. I still had .5 hours to go when I was stopped. I was told that I still had to sign it because they could not tell if I had done it or not otherwise.

6.) I am being considered for a job with a reputable company. One of the main reasons they are considering me is because I am a law abiding citizen who is able to travel and drive in Canada, as well as the fact that I hold a valid U.S. Passport. I need this cleared up. I have traveled extensively in Canada and love the country and its people. There is no way that I would intentionally endanger any human being. It was an oversight on multiple levels with me being on the bottom. I am grateful to the officer who caught the problem as it could have resulted in a tragedy.

I only wish the fine were stated so I could pay it and move on with another lesson learned.

I contacted a Barrister (Lawyer) in Windsor who quoted me a $2500.00 fee. Needless to say I am broke, with a wedding planned in February and a date with a Judge in Windsor in January!. My questions are as follows:


1.) Does anyone know what the fines usually run for an offense of this type. It looks like I may have to represent myself in the matter. I read an article that said they usually run about $80.00 to $300.00. I know that if I elected to leave the scene it would be an additional $400.00. I can't understand why that offense is set.

2.) Does anyone know whether the courts in Ontario will plea bargain (with or without being there)?

3.) If I do have to retain a Barrister does anyone know any reasonably priced ones in Windsor (I know you get what you pay for)?

4.) Is this charge considered a moving violation?

Operate unsafe combination of vehicles 230.84

5.) Will crying help?

As I stated in the subject line: Any advice is welcome

In the USA the post-trip inspection is the main inspection and pre-trip (being before you get behind the wheel) you should sign off on your pre-trip everything was fixed.
Now the way you word the Canadian regs is that you do a pre-trip and you you sign off on your form during your post trip that everything was fixed. This makes no sense to me, did I mis understand something? Really, I am capable of misunderstanding. I can find out easily on Monday within seconds, however I am curious what you all say.

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

My biggest question Canadians say EH ,and to me it sounds like ..A..so is it spelled...A...here in the states if using stadard measurment ,and is ...EH ...the Metric equivilant ?

[Creek Jackson]

My biggest question Canadians say EH ,and to me it sounds like ..A..so is it spelled...A...here in the states if using stadard measurment ,and is ...EH ...the Metric equivilant ?

It would have to be 1.3, eh?

Creek

[Lucky Lindy 66]

Now Lindy, I'm a little confused how you're getting screwed. You did such a piss poor pre-trip inspection that you didn't notice loose lug nuts and could have killed some innnocent family on 401 when the tire came flying off.
Now here's a thought: suck it up, pay the fine, and try harder to act like a professional when you inspect your truck; figure out what the necessary paperwork is in a foreign country; and stop pissing and moaning about how you can't afford the fine. Some poor smuck couldn't afford to die, either but you could have killed him. Consider yourself lucky you're not sitting in a Canadian jail, awaiting trial on vehicular homicide and suffering nightmares from the horror of the accident scene.
As for bikerboy, knobs like you have been around forever, bragging about "running the scales" and what a badass trucker you are. All you do is hurt the image of an industry that already gets too much negative press. Running safe trucks within reasonable hours of service is what a professional does; the other is just Billy Big Rig bull crap.

Listen little brother, I do consider myself lucky, but the fine is excessive. I am only trying to get advice like any sane person would do. I have never discounted the fact that I was wrong and yes I do a better job with my pre trips now.

[Lucky Lindy 66]

http://www.pointts.com/windsor.htm

may be this can help you

Thank you for your advice friend.

[One]

Now Lindy, I'm a little confused how you're getting screwed. You did such a piss poor pre-trip inspection that you didn't notice loose lug nuts and could have killed some innnocent family on 401 when the tire came flying off.
Now here's a thought: suck it up, pay the fine, and try harder to act like a professional when you inspect your truck; figure out what the necessary paperwork is in a foreign country; and stop pissing and moaning about how you can't afford the fine. Some poor smuck couldn't afford to die, either but you could have killed him. Consider yourself lucky you're not sitting in a Canadian jail, awaiting trial on vehicular homicide and suffering nightmares from the horror of the accident scene.
As for bikerboy, knobs like you have been around forever, bragging about "running the scales" and what a badass trucker you are. All you do is hurt the image of an industry that already gets too much negative press. Running safe trucks within reasonable hours of service is what a professional does; the other is just Billy Big Rig bull crap.

Theres always one that has to be an aZZ rather than offering good advice or none at all. How surprising.

[Professor427]

Not being an azz, the advice is simple: Stand up, admit your stupidity, pay the fine, don't blame the inspector or Canada for your incompentence. The fine seems excessive for a reason: he could have killed somebody. We had a number of high profile deaths on Hwy 401 as a result of truck tires coming off and killing/seriously injuring people. While as a driver I may be sympathetic to his financial woes, I have no sympathy for a guy who wants to blame the system for his own incompetence. A loose wheel is easy to spot for anyone who does a proper inspection; man up and take responsbility, both morally and financially, and consider yourself lucky you're not going to prison for several years.

Edit: Section 11.2.4, Michigan CDL manual.
Lug Nuts
Check that all lug nuts are present, free of cracks
and distortions, and show no signs of looseness
such as rust trails or shiny threads.
Make sure all bolt holes are not cracked or
distorted.

[Lucky Lindy 66]

Fine Reduced to $1500.00 plus 25% Victims Surcharge. Total= $1875.00

Defense strategy = I was wrong and it won't happen again.

I checked the lugs for signs of looseness Professor. The mistake I made was not trying to turn them. I am still trying to find the area in my post where I blame the inspector. In fact here is the statement I read in Court:


I would like to begin by thanking the Inspecting Officer for catching the

defect as well as Her Worship and the Counsel for the Crown for your

time. I would also like to publicly apologize to the Citizens of Canada for

operating an unsafe commercial vehicle on their roads.


The 33rd President of the United States, Harry Truman had a sign on his

desk that read "The buck stops here". It is a reference to the saying

"passing the buck". I am here to tell you that in the sequence of events

that transpired over the coarse of 34 days I know that I am the one that

was ultimately responsible for the defect of the trailer in question on the

night in question and for that I sincerely apologize. I will not try to pass

the buck. However I would like to provide a brief time line. The trailer

had been serviced in late September and the wheels were removed. It

was taken to a major truck stop with missing lug nuts on the 17th of

October and finally the defect was noted by the Inspecting Officer on the

21st of October. I had hooked to the trailer in question at 130 on the 21st

of October in Carleton, MI, done a 15 minute pre-trip inspection and

headed for the border. I did do an inspection and it was clearly annotated

on my log. I drove the trailer in question approximately 70 Kilometers

(the trailer had traveled approximately 4000 Kilometers in the defective

state under other drivers)) before being pulled into the inspection station

at approximately 2130. During the inspection the officer discovered 8

loose lugs. Lugs are supposed to be checked between 50 to 100 miles

after they have been installed. Obviously they were not and I did not

catch the defect. I am glad that the officer caught it and that there was

not an incident. While deciding whether or not to take this to trial I found

myself back to the same question over and over. "Are you guilty of the

offense in question". The answer was the same every time. "Yes".


Now to my financial situation. I had chosen almost 3 years ago to get out

of truck driving. I felt that the physical and mental costs associated with

over the road driving were not worth it. Especially considering that the

wages were nominal at best. I have never been married, so family life

and home time were never a real issue with me. Last year I was laid off

from the job I held and spent the next 4 months unemployed. I could not

envision myself back in a over the road position and finally landed a job

as a local driver/technician with a medical equipment company. I made

decent money but had little to spare. In the summer I finally met the

person I intend to marry. My love for her is the only thing that would

cause me to sell my life to an employer. I figured that it would only be a

year to a year and a half and that I could handle it.

DETAILS OF MARRIAGE EDITED

This event has effected me considerably. I have thought of little else for

the past 57 days. I have had problems sleeping and eating. I do know

that if a accident had resulted I would not have been able to handle it,

once again I am grateful that I was inspected that night. It has brought on

wholesale changes in the way I conduct my inspections and conduct

myself as a Professional Driver overall. I now go by this list each and

every time I do both my pre and post trips. From the beginning of my

employment with Gainey Transportation I knew that I would be seeking

employment elsewhere eventually. It was not a good fit. This event

spurred me into action and I now have a job with a company that I love.

Both I and my company have went through considerable time and

expense to get me here to answer these charges. The fine that my

learned friend is seeking equates to 19% of a years post tax income

without my per diem taken into consideration, which is used for my

expenses while living on the road. I know that I have earned a fine. I am

only asking that the court reduce the fine to a level that would not be as

financially cumbersome.

I would hope that Her Worship would take the following into consideration.


1.) I am truly remorseful

2.) I am a law abiding Citizen with no prior offenses.

3.) I am on less than sound financial ground.

4.) I have gone to considerable lengths to appear today.

5.) I have learned a valuable lesson and it will never happen again.

What I told them was the truth. I have never denied my part in this chain of events. They were very polite and have worked out payment arrangements with me. I agree that the cost is small compared to what it could have been. I will post more about this experience at another time.








































































































Now to my financial situation. I had chosen almost 3 years ago to get out of truck driving. I felt that the physical and mental costs associated with over the road driving were not worth it. Especially considering that the wages were nominal at best. I have never been married, so family
life and home time were never a real issue with me. Last year I was laid off from the job I held and spent the next 4 months unemployed. I could not envision myself back in a over the road position and finally landed a job as a local driver/technician with a medical equipment company. I
made decent money but had little to spare. In the summer I finally met the person I intend to marry.

DETAILS OF MARRIAGE EDITED

This event has effected me considerably. I have thought of little else for the past 57 days. I have had problems sleeping and eating. I do know that if a accident had resulted I would not have been able to handle it, once again I am grateful that I was inspected that night. It has brought on wholesale changes in the way I conduct my inspections and conduct myself as a Professional Driver overall. I now go by this list each and every time I do both my pre and post trips. From the beginning of my
employment with Gainey Transportation I knew that I would be seeking employment elsewhere eventually. It was not a good fit. This event spurred me into action and I now have a job with a company that I love. Both I and my company have went through considerable time and expense to get me here to answer these charges. The fine that my learned friend is seeking equates to 19% of a years post tax income without my per diem taken into consideration, which is used for my expenses while living on the road. I know that I have earned a fine. I am only asking that the court reduce the fine to a level that would not be as financially cumbersome.

I would hope that his/her Worship would take the following into consideration.


1.) I am truly remorseful

2.) I am a law abiding Citizen with no prior offenses.

3.) I am on less than sound financial ground.

4.) I have gone to considerable lengths to appear today.

5.) I have learned a valuable lesson and it will never happen again.

[ben45750]

I checked the lugs for signs of looseness Professor. The mistake I made was not trying to turn them.

Wow, I'm impressed with your ability to keep a positive and pleasant attitude through this whole ordeal.

[Professor427]

Lindy,
From the tone of my posts, you probably think I don't have sympathy for you; you're wrong. I'm gald it worked out for you, in terms of the reduced fine and payment plan, and obviously you are more than remorseful for having missed the loose lugs.

The following post you made is what set me off:
Now "The Crown" is trying to take 10% of my before tax income. I would prefer never to roll or see Canada again. I used to love going there. The company I am with now is the best Trucking and one of the best overall that I have ever worked for. They need me to go there and I will, but I will never feel the same. I feel like a rape victim at this point.

But that's all in the past, I'm glad things worked out, and for what it's worth I want to wish you and your bride-to-be the best for your future. I'm gald you found a reasonable paying job in this industry (that's a whole other thread we could start) and I hope things continue to improve.

[bikerboy]

I think thats stupid the driver got a fine, i think all fines should go to the carrier!
I know all overweight fines go to the carrier. So i think all fines other than speeding should too.

Whats a driver supposed to do if the carrier refuses to fix something or says it doesn't need fixed, and then they get caught and fined, its not the drivers fault if the carrier refused to fix something.

Sometimes these inspectors overreact, there is alots of things that might look dangerous, but actually they are not dangerous at all, and these inpsectors fine ppl anyway.
Like cracked leaf spring, i have seen trucks driven for months with a cracked spring and nothing happens, so i really don;t think a cracked spring is dangerous at all.

[mbadriver]

Either, not a dry eye in the courtroom, or the were laughing their @ss@s off.

A sentencing statement for murder one on Court TV would have less remourse :wink:

To the Cannucks - watch out, we just might annex you.

In the summer I finally met the

person I intend to marry. My love for her is the only thing that would

cause me to sell my life to an employer. I figured that it would only be a

year to a year and a half and that I could handle it.