Violations... (HELP)

[unkut2003]

So last Friday my employer decided to give me a 4 stop route which I TOLD them could NOT be completed within my 14hrs!!! SO.... they say, "well mapquest says its only a 11 hr. round trip"! I just stood there and laughed!!! I said yeah, in a car, without construction, without dock/load/unload times, and in a perfect world... Well they say, just do your best. So, I started at 6am and returned to the yard at 9:15pm... a 15.25hr day! Did I log it...... damn right I did! Why? Because.... I feel more comfortable running legal! Anyways, today I get a letter from the company stating I'm in violation of 2 rules, those being the 11 hour driving rule 395.3(a) and the 14 hour on duty rule 395.3b!!! They "demand" a full explanation from me in writing, along with my full signature/date/ect..... so that a "determination" for said violations can be made!!!

My question is simply this.... what should I do? I did work the 15.25hrs, to the T, exactly as it was logged! So, is there a "good" excuse that covers my butt I could use.... other then I TOLD YOU SO??? Any help would greatly be appreciated, thanks!!!

[worldisnotenough]

The only thing I can think of is did they tell you in person to do your best or did they send it over the computer system message thing to do your best. Not that this would help but anytime I have several stops in one day I send a message that I don't believe it is possible and then when my 14 stops, I STOP! No matter what. I called safety and they told me to not log stuff on duty which is crap but it was on a weekend. I asked them if they were going to pay my ticket for me. They said no. From then on everything was over the computer system and they had to deadhead someone to finish the pickup . The deadhead was only 30 miles away but they gave me all kinds of crap about it. I told them when I hit 14 hours, I hit 14 hours. period. they cannot legally do a thing about that. Good luck.

[unkut2003]

The only thing I can think of is did they tell you in person to do your best or did they send it over the computer system message thing to do your best. Not that this would help but anytime I have several stops in one day I send a message that I don't believe it is possible and then when my 14 stops, I STOP! No matter what. I called safety and they told me to not log stuff on duty which is crap but it was on a weekend. I asked them if they were going to pay my ticket for me. They said no. From then on everything was over the computer system and they had to deadhead someone to finish the pickup . The deadhead was only 30 miles away but they gave me all kinds of crap about it. I told them when I hit 14 hours, I hit 14 hours. period. they cannot legally do a thing about that. Good luck.

This was all verbal. But I am wondering what "could" come from this???

[BigDiesel]

When and if you get red lighted at a scale ( you know what a scale is ??) or your company gets a DOT audit you will be cited.

[Double R]

So last Friday my employer decided to give me a 4 stop route which I TOLD them could NOT be completed within my 14hrs!!! SO.... they say, "well mapquest says its only a 11 hr. round trip"! I just stood there and laughed!!! I said yeah, in a car, without construction, without dock/load/unload times, and in a perfect world... Well they say, just do your best. So, I started at 6am and returned to the yard at 9:15pm... a 15.25hr day! Did I log it...... damn right I did! Why? Because.... I feel more comfortable running legal! Anyways, today I get a letter from the company stating I'm in violation of 2 rules, those being the 11 hour driving rule 395.3(a) and the 14 hour on duty rule 395.3b!!! They "demand" a full explanation from me in writing, along with my full signature/date/ect..... so that a "determination" for said violations can be made!!!

My question is simply this.... what should I do? I did work the 15.25hrs, to the T, exactly as it was logged! So, is there a "good" excuse that covers my butt I could use.... other then I TOLD YOU SO??? Any help would greatly be appreciated, thanks!!!

Is your drive time 11 hours or under? If so, then you ARE NOT in violation. Since you return to the yard everyday, then you have used what is called the "short haul expemtion". Once ever seven days, you can log 16 hours, provided that you did not go over 11 hours driving.

It is in the regs, under "short haul exemption".

[kc0iv]

My question is simply this.... what should I do? I did work the 15.25hrs, to the T, exactly as it was logged! So, is there a "good" excuse that covers my butt I could use.... other then I TOLD YOU SO??? Any help would greatly be appreciated, thanks!!!

Could you be cited? YES. Will it happen? Probably not.

If you happen to go through the scales and they check your log book in the next 7 days (you are keeping only the last 7days days -- RIGHT) they might cite you for a violation. As BigDiesel says you might be cited if the D.O.T. auditor happen to pull your log book for an audit.

Now the big question -- What should you have done? Quit driving after your hours-of-service had expired. Even if the company, be it verbal on in some form of written instruction, told you to drive past your hours-of-service it is your responsibility to NOT break the law.

Best you can hope for is to not get caught.

kc0iv

[worldisnotenough]

unkut, what I meant was.

if you had it on the computer system, what transpired as opposed to over the phone or in person verbal, you would have a record that you could show your company. Now that record of the conversation would not get you out of a ticket IF you were cited, but it might help with the internal company investigation as to why you drove over your alloted time. Sometimes I even confuse myself when I write stuff.

[greg3564]

Well you just learned a hard lesson. Who is ultimately in charge of your log? YOU! The next time this or any other employer wants you to go beyond your HOS, tell them to put it in writing. But you should have stood your ground and told them to pay for a hotel(if you don't have a sleeper) or you wouldn't take the load.

[terrylamar]

So, I started at 6am and returned to the yard at 9:15pm... a 15.25hr day! Did I log it...... damn right I did! Why? Because.... I feel more comfortable running legal!

Logging an illegal act does not make it legal, only accurate. You are still in violation.

[unkut2003]

So basically I F'd up..... but you think the company wants me to fill out this paper to cover their butts? Oh, and you are allowed to keep only the previous 7 days logs???

[kc0iv]

So basically I F'd up..... but you think the company wants me to fill out this paper to cover their butts? Oh, and you are allowed to keep only the previous 7 days logs???

To some extent it is a "cover-their-butt." action. However, if by chance there is an audit both you and them can be cited.

Something I didn't say the first time. Be sure to reply to their questions. Answer they as you explained it to us. And be sure to retain a copy of this reply.

You are required to have the last 7 days (plus today) in your truck. Any log you have, after you turn a copy in to the company, you don't have to retain after 7 days. I would never recommend you destroy them. What I did and recommend is retain them at home.

The company is required to maintain their copy for 6 months.

kc0iv

[Uturn2001]

While you may be at risk for a fine for six months, or longer depending on how long your company retains log sheets, I would not loose any sleep over it unless you make a habit of violating the HOS. When the DOT comes in to a company and does an audit they tend to overlook the occasional screw up by a driver but will get really PO'd if they start to see a pattern to it.

As far as the form your company wants you to fill out, yes it is something of a CYA effort on their part. This way they can say, if it is brought up in an audit, that they are making efforts to comply and make sure their drivers comply with all FMCSA regs. Of course, once again, if a drivers starts collecting these things then it may lead to termination, but a few over a long period of time usually is not a big issue at any company.

[ibamars]

You are not in violation. You are allowed one 16 hr work day within a 7 day period. if you use the 16 hr exception to get you back to the yard it is legal. Also you like Is stated before it can only be done one time in a seven day stretch. I used a 16 hr day once a week when I was with Sysco.


http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...#_Toc111021253

Read this, It may make more sense. Good luck

[countryhorseman]

Is it me, or does Unkut have a new crisis every other day!

Unkut, it has been advised to many others and myself, that you need to find a different company to work for! Over the last several weeks there has been one issue after another that you have posted. It seems to me, that your company is either totally outlaw or this stuff does not actually happen.

You are the ultimate and soul responsible person in the operation of your commercial motor vehicle. If, you keep running illegal, and an accident occurs in which a serious injury or death occurs. You will be spending many years in jail, no doubt about that. The law will go back as far as they wish to see you past logs, compare them to fuel, toll, weight and other time stamped documents, and if they do not match, you will never be able to justify you logs or what you have done.

If, in fact, your company is requiring you to run illegal, then they too will be fined and possibly have their operating authority revoked. But, You will be the one behind bars.

If, in fact, all this stuff over the last several weeks have occured, I would highly suggest that you heed the advice of those on this board, that have given you excellent advice, and find another company or line of work! If these things are not happening, then post your questions with a hypothetical disclaimer such as, " Hypothetically, if this were to happen, what would you do?" That way, you are not eventually tagged as the "Boy who cried wolf!"

Good luck!

[terrylamar]

So basically I F'd up..... but you think the company wants me to fill out this paper to cover their butts? Oh, and you are allowed to keep only the previous 7 days logs???

You are required to keep the current day and the 7 previous days. You are allowed to keep as many days as you want, but they are subject to review and possible tickets. It is wise to keep only what is required by law.

[Fredog]

Is it me, or does Unkut have a new crisis every other day!

Unkut, it has been advised to many others and myself, that you need to find a different company to work for! Over the last several weeks there has been one issue after another that you have posted. It seems to me, that your company is either totally outlaw or this stuff does not actually happen.

You are the ultimate and soul responsible person in the operation of your commercial motor vehicle. If, you keep running illegal, and an accident occurs in which a serious injury or death occurs. You will be spending many years in jail, no doubt about that. The law will go back as far as they wish to see you past logs, compare them to fuel, toll, weight and other time stamped documents, and if they do not match, you will never be able to justify you logs or what you have done.

If, in fact, your company is requiring you to run illegal, then they too will be fined and possibly have their operating authority revoked. But, You will be the one behind bars.

If, in fact, all this stuff over the last several weeks have occured, I would highly suggest that you heed the advice of those on this board, that have given you excellent advice, and find another company or line of work! If these things are not happening, then post your questions with a hypothetical disclaimer such as, " Hypothetically, if this were to happen, what would you do?" That way, you are not eventually tagged as the "Boy who cried wolf!"

Good luck!

what's weird is he will pose a question like he has been driving for a week and knows nothing. then someone else will pose a question and he will answer it like he has been driving for 20 years. I think he just likes to post..

[Double R]

You are not in violation. You are allowed one 16 hr work day within a 7 day period. if you use the 16 hr exception to get you back to the yard it is legal. Also you like Is stated before it can only be done one time in a seven day stretch. I used a 16 hr day once a week when I was with Sysco.


http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...#_Toc111021253

Read this, It may make more sense. Good luck

I swear that I said the same thing. Thank you IBAMARS for the back up and posting the link.

[greg3564]

So basically I F'd up..... but you think the company wants me to fill out this paper to cover their butts? Oh, and you are allowed to keep only the previous 7 days logs???

Honestly I think they set you up. Sounds really fishy to me. I can't think of any reason they would do that to you other than to hang yourself and send you packing. I hope I'm wrong but it looks that way to me.

[countryhorseman]

what's weird is he will pose a question like he has been driving for a week and knows nothing. then someone else will pose a question and he will answer it like he has been driving for 20 years. I think he just likes to post..

That is basically what I am thinking! Something is not right!

[countryhorseman]

You are not in violation. You are allowed one 16 hr work day within a 7 day period. if you use the 16 hr exception to get you back to the yard it is legal. Also you like Is stated before it can only be done one time in a seven day stretch. I used a 16 hr day once a week when I was with Sysco.


http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...#_Toc111021253

Read this, It may make more sense. Good luck

I swear that I said the same thing. Thank you IBAMARS for the back up and posting the link.

From what I have been taught, and understand from reading the regs, his situation does not fall under the adverse conditions rule. Also, it does not fall under the short haul provisions either. The 16 hour provision cannot be used by OTR drivers, only the 2 hour extension for adverse conditions, such as weather.

His employer, if this is a real situation, deliberately set him up on and impossible run.

Go back through the archives, and you will find many post from unkut that just do not add up. I think his very first one, was a run he went on without a log book, was stopped at the scales, and then let go. A little fishy too me.

Anyhow, if his employer is actually doing that stuff to him, he needs to find a new job.