Violations... (HELP)

[countryhorseman]

So last Friday my employer decided to give me a 4 stop route which I TOLD them could NOT be completed within my 14hrs!!! SO.... they say, "well mapquest says its only a 11 hr. round trip"! I just stood there and laughed!!! I said yeah, in a car, without construction, without dock/load/unload times, and in a perfect world... Well they say, just do your best. So, I started at 6am and returned to the yard at 9:15pm... a 15.25hr day! Did I log it...... damn right I did! Why? Because.... I feel more comfortable running legal! Anyways, today I get a letter from the company stating I'm in violation of 2 rules, those being the 11 hour driving rule 395.3(a) and the 14 hour on duty rule 395.3b!!! They "demand" a full explanation from me in writing, along with my full signature/date/ect..... so that a "determination" for said violations can be made!!!

My question is simply this.... what should I do? I did work the 15.25hrs, to the T, exactly as it was logged! So, is there a "good" excuse that covers my butt I could use.... other then I TOLD YOU SO??? Any help would greatly be appreciated, thanks!!!

Is your drive time 11 hours or under? If so, then you ARE NOT in violation. Since you return to the yard everyday, then you have used what is called the "short haul expemtion". Once ever seven days, you can log 16 hours, provided that you did not go over 11 hours driving.

It is in the regs, under "short haul exemption".

Does not the "short haul exemption" limit a driver to a 150 air-mile radius?

Silly me! here is the answer to that question, and unkut did not meet the specification in this situation.
HOS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
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August 19, 2005



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Table of Contents



C. SHORT-HAUL OPERATIONS


General Questions

C-1. What is a "short-haul" operation?
The HOS regulations do not specifically define or use the term "short haul" except as a caption for § 395.1(e), which includes requirements for drivers using the 100 air-mile radius exception and those covered by the "non-CDL, as defined in Part 383, 150 air-mile radius" provision.

C-2. What is an "air-mile"?
The term "air-mile" is internationally defined as a "nautical mile" which is equivalent to 6,076 feet. Thus, the 100 air-miles are equivalent to 115.08 statute miles, and 150 air-miles are equivalent to 172.6 statute miles.

[kc0iv]

You are not in violation. You are allowed one 16 hr work day within a 7 day period. if you use the 16 hr exception to get you back to the yard it is legal. Also you like Is stated before it can only be done one time in a seven day stretch. I used a 16 hr day once a week when I was with Sysco.


http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...#_Toc111021253

Read this, It may make more sense. Good luck

ibamars said:

You are not in violation. You are allowed one 16 hr work day within a 7 day period. if you use the 16 hr exception to get you back to the yard it is legal. Also you like Is stated before it can only be done one time in a seven day stretch. I used a 16 hr day once a week when I was with Sysco.

If you read the original post he said:

Anyways, today I get a letter from the company stating I'm in violation of 2 rules, those being the 11 hour driving rule 395.3(a) and the 14 hour on duty rule 395.3b!!!

So if he was questioned for being over the 11 hour rule he can not use the 16 hour exception to extend the 11 hour violation. There is no exception for a violation the 11 hour rule. He could however, claim the exception for the portion on the 14 hour questioned violation.

Notice the rule:

(a)(1) More than 11 cumulative hours following 10 consecutive hours off duty;

or

(a)(2) For any period after the end of the 14th hour after coming on duty following 10 consecutive hours off duty, except when a property-carrying driver complies with the provisions of §395.1(o) or §395.1(e)(2).[/color]

kc0iv

[Double R]

You are not in violation. You are allowed one 16 hr work day within a 7 day period. if you use the 16 hr exception to get you back to the yard it is legal. Also you like Is stated before it can only be done one time in a seven day stretch. I used a 16 hr day once a week when I was with Sysco.


http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...#_Toc111021253

Read this, It may make more sense. Good luck

I swear that I said the same thing. Thank you IBAMARS for the back up and posting the link.

From what I have been taught, and understand from reading the regs, his situation does not fall under the adverse conditions rule. Also, it does not fall under the short haul provisions either. The 16 hour provision cannot be used by OTR drivers, only the 2 hour extension for adverse conditions, such as weather.

His employer, if this is a real situation, deliberately set him up on and impossible run.

Go back through the archives, and you will find many post from unkut that just do not add up. I think his very first one, was a run he went on without a log book, was stopped at the scales, and then let go. A little fishy too me.

Anyhow, if his employer is actually doing that stuff to him, he needs to find a new job.

UNKUT claims to be a local driver. As for his employer, I think that they need to hire someone that understands DOT regs and UNKUT needs to sit down and read them himself.

[worldisnotenough]

I don't know all the facts and so I can't say that he was pushed by his employer or he made a mistake. I usually tend to lean on the drivers side more often than a companies. that being said I agree with an earlier post. The thing the driver needed to say was NO. I don't have the hours. And No I can't run, once my 14 is up. Saying NO is something every driver must be able to do. When to say it is sometimes hard to figure out though.

[countryhorseman]

[quote="Double RUNKUT claims to be a local driver. As for his employer, I think that they need to hire someone that understands DOT regs and UNKUT needs to sit down and read them himself.[/quote]

I have run local also, and local for us was anywhere in the Central, South or East Texas and Southwestern Louisiana, up to a 600 mile round trip with a 70 mph truck.

We will see how this plays out, still sounds fishy!

[kc0iv]

We will see how this plays out, still sounds fishy!

Back on 8/27 unkut2003 said his first run was from Toledo, Oh to Indianapolis, In well outside the 150 mile circle. Where he claims to have received a ticket plus not having a log book.

So you knows who he is and what is going on. I think countryhorseman might be on to something.

kc0iv

[Fredog]

We will see how this plays out, still sounds fishy!

Back on 8/27 unkut2003 said his first run was from Toledo, Oh to Indianapolis, In well outside the 150 mile circle. Where he claims to have received a ticket plus not having a log book.

So you knows who he is and what is going on. I think countryhorseman might be on to something.

kc0iv

he also said something about getting a warning at the scales and then later claimed he didnt know what the scales were and if he needed to stop at them. I think he is just having fun, it's harmless anyway.

[ibamars]

I think unkut2003 is a DOT Officer and testing us to see if we drivers know whats happening!!!!

[countryhorseman]

I think unkut2003 is a DOT Officer and testing us to see if we drivers know whats happening!!!!

naw, I think a DOT officer would hit us with more relevant and real life situations!

[Trukrswyfe]

I think Unkut is highly entertaining I especially like the post about alley parking something somewhere. I still use that line with my husband when he ticks me off. Though is would be my mini van.

[unkut2003]

After researching my options, I've decided I'll just claim the 16 Hour Exception, and pray they let it slide??? Other then that, I have no other explanation! Heres what I read about the rule, and also what I'll include with my statement.....

16-hour Exception - A property-carrying CMV driver may extend the 14-hour on-duty period by 2 additional hours once every 7 days if they:


Have been released from duty at their normal work reporting location for the previous 5 duty tours;

Are released from duty at their normal work reporting location within 16 hours after coming on duty following 10 consecutive hours off duty; and

Have not taken this exemption within the previous 6 consecutive days, except following a 34-hour restart of a 7/8-day period.


And to inform the curious, I'm just a normal driver that has ran a sideloader and 53ft. van for over 5 1/2 years for Coke. I was ALWAYS local, thus never needed to log, or pass a scale! SO, please don't flame me or hang me for my lack of knowledge. I'm learning as fast as I can.... day by day! I will pick up a current copy of the HOS/DOT Regs and study them in hopes to prevent further situations like these! Thanks for all the help and info too.... its really been beneficial to me! Oh, and to all the "Super Truckers", that laugh and smirk at the others, accept my apology for my mother NOT giving birth to me in a truck, giving me a DOT book instead of Cat In The Hat, play with drop+hooks instead of riding a bike, ect.... You truly are the pros and nobody will ever in a single lifetime find the time/arrogance to dispute that!!!

[Fredog]

After researching my options, I've decided I'll just claim the 16 Hour Exception, and pray they let it slide??? Other then that, I have no other explanation! Heres what I read about the rule, and also what I'll include with my statement.....

16-hour Exception - A property-carrying CMV driver may extend the 14-hour on-duty period by 2 additional hours once every 7 days if they:


Have been released from duty at their normal work reporting location for the previous 5 duty tours;

Are released from duty at their normal work reporting location within 16 hours after coming on duty following 10 consecutive hours off duty; and

Have not taken this exemption within the previous 6 consecutive days, except following a 34-hour restart of a 7/8-day period.


And to inform the curious, I'm just a normal driver that has ran a sideloader and 53ft. van for over 5 1/2 years for Coke. I was ALWAYS local, thus never needed to log, or pass a scale! SO, please don't flame me or hang me for my lack of knowledge. I'm learning as fast as I can.... day by day! I will pick up a current copy of the HOS/DOT Regs and study them in hopes to prevent further situations like these! Thanks for all the help and info too.... its really been beneficial to me! Oh, and to all the "Super Truckers", that laugh and smirk at the others, accept my apology for my mother NOT giving birth to me in a truck, giving me a DOT book instead of Cat In The Hat, play with drop+hooks instead of riding a bike, ect.... You truly are the pros and nobody will ever in a single lifetime find the time/arrogance to dispute that!!!

so what are you doing now?

[unkut2003]

After researching my options, I've decided I'll just claim the 16 Hour Exception, and pray they let it slide??? Other then that, I have no other explanation! Heres what I read about the rule, and also what I'll include with my statement.....

16-hour Exception - A property-carrying CMV driver may extend the 14-hour on-duty period by 2 additional hours once every 7 days if they:


Have been released from duty at their normal work reporting location for the previous 5 duty tours;

Are released from duty at their normal work reporting location within 16 hours after coming on duty following 10 consecutive hours off duty; and

Have not taken this exemption within the previous 6 consecutive days, except following a 34-hour restart of a 7/8-day period.


And to inform the curious, I'm just a normal driver that has ran a sideloader and 53ft. van for over 5 1/2 years for Coke. I was ALWAYS local, thus never needed to log, or pass a scale! SO, please don't flame me or hang me for my lack of knowledge. I'm learning as fast as I can.... day by day! I will pick up a current copy of the HOS/DOT Regs and study them in hopes to prevent further situations like these! Thanks for all the help and info too.... its really been beneficial to me! Oh, and to all the "Super Truckers", that laugh and smirk at the others, accept my apology for my mother NOT giving birth to me in a truck, giving me a DOT book instead of Cat In The Hat, play with drop+hooks instead of riding a bike, ect.... You truly are the pros and nobody will ever in a single lifetime find the time/arrogance to dispute that!!!

so what are you doing now?

Sittin on the couch, watchin the 3 lil' rugrats while their mom gets some rest. We spent the weekend at the Kalahari Waterpark Resort in Sandusky, OH... First family event in roughly 4-5 years... :shock: So needless to say we didn't get much rest at all! Plus the wife had a severe stomach ache, nausia, and the rest of the don't care to mention stuff, haha! All that led to not much sleep! But to be a little more specific, I'm looking on the FMCSA site for info, but its a little rough. I'd like to just get the handbook mentioned before, that way EVERYTHING is available at my fingertips.... when I need it!!! Why?

[Fredog]

After researching my options, I've decided I'll just claim the 16 Hour Exception, and pray they let it slide??? Other then that, I have no other explanation! Heres what I read about the rule, and also what I'll include with my statement.....

16-hour Exception - A property-carrying CMV driver may extend the 14-hour on-duty period by 2 additional hours once every 7 days if they:


Have been released from duty at their normal work reporting location for the previous 5 duty tours;

Are released from duty at their normal work reporting location within 16 hours after coming on duty following 10 consecutive hours off duty; and

Have not taken this exemption within the previous 6 consecutive days, except following a 34-hour restart of a 7/8-day period.


And to inform the curious, I'm just a normal driver that has ran a sideloader and 53ft. van for over 5 1/2 years for Coke. I was ALWAYS local, thus never needed to log, or pass a scale! SO, please don't flame me or hang me for my lack of knowledge. I'm learning as fast as I can.... day by day! I will pick up a current copy of the HOS/DOT Regs and study them in hopes to prevent further situations like these! Thanks for all the help and info too.... its really been beneficial to me! Oh, and to all the "Super Truckers", that laugh and smirk at the others, accept my apology for my mother NOT giving birth to me in a truck, giving me a DOT book instead of Cat In The Hat, play with drop+hooks instead of riding a bike, ect.... You truly are the pros and nobody will ever in a single lifetime find the time/arrogance to dispute that!!!

so what are you doing now?

Sittin on the couch, watchin the 3 lil' rugrats while their mom gets some rest. We spent the weekend at the Kalahari Waterpark Resort in Sandusky, OH... First family event in roughly 4-5 years... :shock: So needless to say we didn't get much rest at all! Plus the wife had a severe stomach ache, nausia, and the rest of the don't care to mention stuff, haha! All that led to not much sleep! But to be a little more specific, I'm looking on the FMCSA site for info, but its a little rough. I'd like to just get the handbook mentioned before, that way EVERYTHING is available at my fingertips.... when I need it!!! Why?

i just wondered what kind of driving you were currently doing, your employer should give you a regs book, or you can get it at any truckstop

[unkut2003]

After researching my options, I've decided I'll just claim the 16 Hour Exception, and pray they let it slide??? Other then that, I have no other explanation! Heres what I read about the rule, and also what I'll include with my statement.....

16-hour Exception - A property-carrying CMV driver may extend the 14-hour on-duty period by 2 additional hours once every 7 days if they:


Have been released from duty at their normal work reporting location for the previous 5 duty tours;

Are released from duty at their normal work reporting location within 16 hours after coming on duty following 10 consecutive hours off duty; and

Have not taken this exemption within the previous 6 consecutive days, except following a 34-hour restart of a 7/8-day period.


And to inform the curious, I'm just a normal driver that has ran a sideloader and 53ft. van for over 5 1/2 years for Coke. I was ALWAYS local, thus never needed to log, or pass a scale! SO, please don't flame me or hang me for my lack of knowledge. I'm learning as fast as I can.... day by day! I will pick up a current copy of the HOS/DOT Regs and study them in hopes to prevent further situations like these! Thanks for all the help and info too.... its really been beneficial to me! Oh, and to all the "Super Truckers", that laugh and smirk at the others, accept my apology for my mother NOT giving birth to me in a truck, giving me a DOT book instead of Cat In The Hat, play with drop+hooks instead of riding a bike, ect.... You truly are the pros and nobody will ever in a single lifetime find the time/arrogance to dispute that!!!

so what are you doing now?

Sittin on the couch, watchin the 3 lil' rugrats while their mom gets some rest. We spent the weekend at the Kalahari Waterpark Resort in Sandusky, OH... First family event in roughly 4-5 years... :shock: So needless to say we didn't get much rest at all! Plus the wife had a severe stomach ache, nausia, and the rest of the don't care to mention stuff, haha! All that led to not much sleep! But to be a little more specific, I'm looking on the FMCSA site for info, but its a little rough. I'd like to just get the handbook mentioned before, that way EVERYTHING is available at my fingertips.... when I need it!!! Why?

i just wondered what kind of driving you were currently doing, your employer should give you a regs book, or you can get it at any truckstop

Oh, hahaha!!! Well welcome to my weekend anyways!!! I'm doing routes from an hour drive, up to 5ish hours 1 way. For instance, tomorrow I have a Toledo, OH to Dearborn, MI run which is roughly an hour 1 way, then a driver assisted unload which usually runs 2 hours or so, then another hourish back. Tuesday I have another Indy, IN run to Stephen Gould, live unload, and back..... this is usually a 11+ hour day.... driving the speedlimit of course... :wink:

[Double R]

After researching my options, I've decided I'll just claim the 16 Hour Exception, and pray they let it slide??? Other then that, I have no other explanation! Heres what I read about the rule, and also what I'll include with my statement.....

16-hour Exception - A property-carrying CMV driver may extend the 14-hour on-duty period by 2 additional hours once every 7 days if they:


Have been released from duty at their normal work reporting location for the previous 5 duty tours;

Are released from duty at their normal work reporting location within 16 hours after coming on duty following 10 consecutive hours off duty; and

Have not taken this exemption within the previous 6 consecutive days, except following a 34-hour restart of a 7/8-day period.

As long as your line 3 is 11 or under, then you should be ok.

[unkut2003]

After researching my options, I've decided I'll just claim the 16 Hour Exception, and pray they let it slide??? Other then that, I have no other explanation! Heres what I read about the rule, and also what I'll include with my statement.....

16-hour Exception - A property-carrying CMV driver may extend the 14-hour on-duty period by 2 additional hours once every 7 days if they:


Have been released from duty at their normal work reporting location for the previous 5 duty tours;

Are released from duty at their normal work reporting location within 16 hours after coming on duty following 10 consecutive hours off duty; and

Have not taken this exemption within the previous 6 consecutive days, except following a 34-hour restart of a 7/8-day period.

As long as your line 3 is 11 or under, then you should be ok.

I'll know for sure tomorrow when I get the book in front of me, but I wanna say it was 11.25hrs drivin, and another 5hrs of on duty... :?

[Double R]

After researching my options, I've decided I'll just claim the 16 Hour Exception, and pray they let it slide??? Other then that, I have no other explanation! Heres what I read about the rule, and also what I'll include with my statement.....

16-hour Exception - A property-carrying CMV driver may extend the 14-hour on-duty period by 2 additional hours once every 7 days if they:


Have been released from duty at their normal work reporting location for the previous 5 duty tours;

Are released from duty at their normal work reporting location within 16 hours after coming on duty following 10 consecutive hours off duty; and

Have not taken this exemption within the previous 6 consecutive days, except following a 34-hour restart of a 7/8-day period.

As long as your line 3 is 11 or under, then you should be ok.

I'll know for sure tomorrow when I get the book in front of me, but I wanna say it was 11.25hrs drivin, and another 5hrs of on duty... :?

If it is 11.25 driving, then you are in violation and cannot claim the sixteen hour rule. If that is right, then I would have shut the truck down and called the company and tell that that:
A)They send someone out to drive the truck and you home
or
B)Who inform them that you are getting a motel room for the night at thier expense and that you would be in after you ten hour break.

11.25hrs drivin, and another 5hrs of on duty

16.25 hours for the day. You are in violation of both the 11/14 and could not even use the sixteen rule. You have to be under 11 hours on line 3 to use it and cannot have a total past 16 hours.

[unkut2003]

After researching my options, I've decided I'll just claim the 16 Hour Exception, and pray they let it slide??? Other then that, I have no other explanation! Heres what I read about the rule, and also what I'll include with my statement.....

16-hour Exception - A property-carrying CMV driver may extend the 14-hour on-duty period by 2 additional hours once every 7 days if they:


Have been released from duty at their normal work reporting location for the previous 5 duty tours;

Are released from duty at their normal work reporting location within 16 hours after coming on duty following 10 consecutive hours off duty; and

Have not taken this exemption within the previous 6 consecutive days, except following a 34-hour restart of a 7/8-day period.

As long as your line 3 is 11 or under, then you should be ok.

I'll know for sure tomorrow when I get the book in front of me, but I wanna say it was 11.25hrs drivin, and another 5hrs of on duty... :?

If it is 11.25 driving, then you are in violation and cannot claim the sixteen hour rule. If that is right, then I would have shut the truck down and called the company and tell that that:
A)They send someone out to drive the truck and you home
or
B)Who inform them that you are getting a motel room for the night at thier expense and that you would be in after you ten hour break.

11.25hrs drivin, and another 5hrs of on duty

16.25 hours for the day. You are in violation of both the 11/14 and could not even use the sixteen rule. You have to be under 11 hours on line 3 to use it and cannot have a total past 16 hours.

It figures...... when it rains it pours! Sowhat do you feel my would be in my best intrests??? What should I write in the explanation section of the paperwork my company wants submitted???

[Double R]

After researching my options, I've decided I'll just claim the 16 Hour Exception, and pray they let it slide??? Other then that, I have no other explanation! Heres what I read about the rule, and also what I'll include with my statement.....

16-hour Exception - A property-carrying CMV driver may extend the 14-hour on-duty period by 2 additional hours once every 7 days if they:


Have been released from duty at their normal work reporting location for the previous 5 duty tours;

Are released from duty at their normal work reporting location within 16 hours after coming on duty following 10 consecutive hours off duty; and

Have not taken this exemption within the previous 6 consecutive days, except following a 34-hour restart of a 7/8-day period.

As long as your line 3 is 11 or under, then you should be ok.

I'll know for sure tomorrow when I get the book in front of me, but I wanna say it was 11.25hrs drivin, and another 5hrs of on duty... :?

If it is 11.25 driving, then you are in violation and cannot claim the sixteen hour rule. If that is right, then I would have shut the truck down and called the company and tell that that:
A)They send someone out to drive the truck and you home
or
B)Who inform them that you are getting a motel room for the night at thier expense and that you would be in after you ten hour break.

11.25hrs drivin, and another 5hrs of on duty

16.25 hours for the day. You are in violation of both the 11/14 and could not even use the sixteen rule. You have to be under 11 hours on line 3 to use it and cannot have a total past 16 hours.

It figures...... when it rains it pours! Sowhat do you feel my would be in my best intrests??? What should I write in the explanation section of the paperwork my company wants submitted???

Honestly, tell them that you screwed up at that next time you run out of hours and cannot make it back to the yard, that they can either send another drive out to get the truck and you or they can pay for a motel for the night.
Next time you know that you will not make it back in the time alloted, call and inform your company and give them those two options. If they are a good company and resepct the drivers, then you should be ok. If they tell you to drive back anyways, find another company to drive for.