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Thread: Innocent Driver Fails Drug Test Question

  1. #21
    Useless is offline Senior Board Member
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    [quote="mbadriver"]

    A DOT 5 Panel Drug Test is:

    These test classes were established decades ago, and include five specific drug groups. They do not account for current drug usage patterns. For example, the tests do not include "synthetic opiates", such as oxycodone, oxymorphone, hydrocodone, hydromorphone, etc., compounds that are highly abused in America:

    1. Cannabinoids (marijuana, hashish)
    2. Cocaine (cocaine, benzoylecognine, cocaethylene)
    3. Amphetamines (amphetamine, methamphetamine)
    4. Opiates (heroin, opium, codeine, morphine)
    5. Phencyclidine (PCP)

    1 - 5 are the 5 Panel DOT Drug Test. Anything more (or less) is not a DOT drug test.

    Synthetics will not show up.
    They all metabolize the same. Some people on this site come off pretty convincing, a little scratching around will reveal their inner "buffoonery."

    Your dentist didn't want to get sued if you mowed someone down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double R
    Quote Originally Posted by mbadriver
    Vicoden, lortab, etc. DO NOT show up in DOT drug testing.

    YES IT DOES! When I had a tooth pulled, my denisit WOULD NOT prescribe me Vicoden because he knows what I do for a living. He said that if I got tested it will show up POSITIVE.
    Nice attempt to sidestep the question, mbadriver, but I asked for a credible source to support your "information", and we are still waiting!

    While the Opiate Panel can detect the presence of Hydrocodone, an MRO is not required to report the presence of Hydrocodone providing that it has been prescribed; nonetheless, it is detectable through DOT approved drug tests. That should not be confused with a driver being allowed to drive a commercial vehicle or a personal vehicle with it in his/her system; doing so IS prohibited.

    In any event, particular to this thread, the presence of Hydrocodone would appear under the opiates panel, not the panel for cocaine.

    BTW, here is a website that may be of interest:

    < http://www.usis.com/commercialservic...20Products.pdf >

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  3. #22
    mbadriver is offline Board Regular
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    http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/safety-secu...ting-guide.htm

    The regulations require testing for the following classes of substances:
    Marijuana (grass, pot, weed, hash, joint, Acapulco gold)
    Cocaine (coke, crack, snow, blow, flake, "C", rock, base)
    Opiates - opium and codeine derivatives - (heroin, horse, "H", junk, smack, scag, Miss Emma)
    Amphetamines - amphetamines and methamphetamines - (uppers, speed, bennies, black beauties, Christmas trees, crystal, mollies, crank, BAM, dexies)
    Phencyclidine - PCP - (angel dust, peace pill, hog, supergrass, embalming fluid, rocket fuel, killer weed)

    The need to do a separate (beyond the 5 Panel) test for synthetics is strictly sensitivity/limits of quantification differences. Synthetics require greater test sensitivity. The 5 Panel level of detection for Opiates is 2000ng/ml. For synthetics it is 300ng/ml.

    In lay terms, think of it as screen size - you aren't going to catch a piece of gravel in a 2-inch screen.

    Drug(and trade name) Urine cut-off Toxic blood
    points for level
    reporting
    positive or
    limit of
    quantitation*

    OPIATES

    Heroin (Diacetylmorphine) 2000 ng/mL (as > 200 ng/mL
    morphine)

    Morphine (Duramorph) 2000 ng/mL > 200 ng/mL
    (S)(1) 300 ng/mL
    (C)(3)

    Methadone (Dolophine, Amidone) 300 ng/mL 200 1-2 [micro]g/mL
    ng/mL (C)(3)

    Meperidine (Demerol, Pethidine) 200 ng/mL (S)(2) > 1000 ng/mL
    200 ng/mL
    (C)(3)

    Codeine (Analgesics with 2000 ng/mL >1.1
    codeine) (S)(1) 300 ng/mL [micro]g/mL
    (C)(3) lethal)

    Propoxyphene (Darvon, 300 ng/mL (S)(1) > 500 ng/mL
    Darvocet-N) 200 ng/mL
    (C)(3)

    Oxycodone (Oxycontin, OxylR, 100-500 ng/mL > 200 ng/mL
    Percocet, Percodan) (S)(1) (highly
    variable)
    100-300 ng/mL
    (C)(3) (hiqhly
    variable)

    A test for synthetics is readily available, but it is NOT part of the DOT 5 Panel testing.

    This isn't a thesis. I am not providing footnotes.

    A single credible source? I haven't seen anything from your side of the aisle. Wait a minute, someone got a nursing degree from DeVry. Geez, now that's an unimpeachable source :wink:


    [quote="Useless"]
    Quote Originally Posted by mbadriver

    A DOT 5 Panel Drug Test is:

    These test classes were established decades ago, and include five specific drug groups. They do not account for current drug usage patterns. For example, the tests do not include "synthetic opiates", such as oxycodone, oxymorphone, hydrocodone, hydromorphone, etc., compounds that are highly abused in America:

    1. Cannabinoids (marijuana, hashish)
    2. Cocaine (cocaine, benzoylecognine, cocaethylene)
    3. Amphetamines (amphetamine, methamphetamine)
    4. Opiates (heroin, opium, codeine, morphine)
    5. Phencyclidine (PCP)

    1 - 5 are the 5 Panel DOT Drug Test. Anything more (or less) is not a DOT drug test.

    Synthetics will not show up.
    They all metabolize the same. Some people on this site come off pretty convincing, a little scratching around will reveal their inner "buffoonery."

    Your dentist didn't want to get sued if you mowed someone down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double R
    Quote Originally Posted by mbadriver
    Vicoden, lortab, etc. DO NOT show up in DOT drug testing.

    YES IT DOES! When I had a tooth pulled, my denisit WOULD NOT prescribe me Vicoden because he knows what I do for a living. He said that if I got tested it will show up POSITIVE.
    Nice attempt to sidestep the question, mbadriver, but I asked for a credible source to support your "information", and we are still waiting!
    "He knew who I was, at that time, because I had a reputation as a writer. I knew he was part of the Bush dynasty. But he was nothing, he offered nothing, and he promised nothing. He had no humor. He was insignificant in every way and consequently I didn't pay much attention to him. But when he passed out in my bathtub, then I noticed him. I'd been in another room, talking to the bright people. I had to have him taken away." -on meeting George W Bush at Thompson's Super Bowl party in Houston in 1974

    Buy the ticket. Take the ride.

  4. #23
    Useless is offline Senior Board Member
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    Dream on with your quip about me having anything to do with Devry, mbadriver!!

    For you, I'm sure that would be considered higher education, but UT Health Science Center is a long way out in front of them!!

    Once again, you fail to offer documentation that supports your claim that hydrocodone can not be detected on a DOT drug screen.

    I didn't challenge the contents of the DOT test panels; in fact, I have no problem with them.

    However, your assertion that Hydrocodone can not be detected on them is false.

  5. #24
    mbadriver is offline Board Regular
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    USELESS, ummm - I was kind of hoping you might provide some support for your side :wink:

    It takes two. Maybe in Texas/DeVry/ITT Tech/JUCO "your false" is a valid rebuttal. CAD has somewhat loftier standards.

    I'm trying to help you out here. But you gotta do more than GWB's minute of silence during the '04 Election Debates.

    Ok, now repeat after me, "mbadriver your position that synthetic opiates will not show up on a DOT 5 Panel drug test is falacious due to ....."

    Don't try to hornswoggle us that your AA from Waxahachie JUCO makes you an authority on the subject. :lol:



    Quote Originally Posted by Useless
    Dream on with your quip about Devry, mbadriver!!

    For you, I'm sure that would be considered higher education.

    Once again, you fail to offer documentation that supports your claim that hydrocodone can not be detected on a DOT drug screen.

    I didn't challenge the contents of the DOT test panels; in fact, I have no problem with them.

    However, your assertion that Hydrocodone can not be detected on them is false.
    "He knew who I was, at that time, because I had a reputation as a writer. I knew he was part of the Bush dynasty. But he was nothing, he offered nothing, and he promised nothing. He had no humor. He was insignificant in every way and consequently I didn't pay much attention to him. But when he passed out in my bathtub, then I noticed him. I'd been in another room, talking to the bright people. I had to have him taken away." -on meeting George W Bush at Thompson's Super Bowl party in Houston in 1974

    Buy the ticket. Take the ride.

  6. #25
    Useless is offline Senior Board Member
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    [quote="mbadriver"]USELESS, ummm - I was kind of hoping you might provide some support for your side :wink:

    It takes two. Maybe in Texas/DeVry/ITT Tech/JUCO "your false" is a valid rebuttal. CAD has somewhat loftier standards.

    I'm trying to help you out here. But you gotta do more than GWB's minute of silence during the '04 Election Debates.

    Ok, now repeat after me, "mbadriver your position that synthetic opiates will not show up on a DOT 5 Panel drug test is falacious due to ....."

    Don't try to hornswoggle us that your AA from Waxahachie JUCO makes you an authority on the subject. :lol:

    mbadriver:

    After that mindless ramble, I'm starting to wonder about what chemicals are floating through your system!! Or, was it just a frontal lobotomy that went bad??

    Better tell the attendants at the rehab center that you need your Thorazine doseage adjusted!!

    We are still awaiting your source of information. You made the claim, but you have yet to defend it with credible documentation. If you took the effort to read my reply, you would see a link to USIS Commercial Services, which includes DOT approved drug screening.

  7. #26
    mbadriver is offline Board Regular
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    Useless, the name fits the debate skills.

    All I have gotten from you is one link and an ad hominem argument.

    FWIW, your one link/source precisely supported my point.

    I'm outta here, c ya by.
    [quote="Useless"]
    Quote Originally Posted by mbadriver
    USELESS, ummm - I was kind of hoping you might provide some support for your side :wink:

    It takes two. Maybe in Texas/DeVry/ITT Tech/JUCO "your false" is a valid rebuttal. CAD has somewhat loftier standards.

    I'm trying to help you out here. But you gotta do more than GWB's minute of silence during the '04 Election Debates.

    Ok, now repeat after me, "mbadriver your position that synthetic opiates will not show up on a DOT 5 Panel drug test is falacious due to ....."

    Don't try to hornswoggle us that your AA from Waxahachie JUCO makes you an authority on the subject. :lol:

    mbadriver:

    After that mindless ramble, I'm starting to wonder about what chemicals are floating through your system!! Or, was it just a frontal lobotomy that went bad??

    Better tell the attendants at the rehab center that you need your Thorazine doseage adjusted!!

    We are still awaiting your source of information. You made the claim, but you have yet to defend it with credible documentation. If you took the effort to read my reply, you would see a link to USIS Commercial Services, which includes DOT approved drug screening.
    "He knew who I was, at that time, because I had a reputation as a writer. I knew he was part of the Bush dynasty. But he was nothing, he offered nothing, and he promised nothing. He had no humor. He was insignificant in every way and consequently I didn't pay much attention to him. But when he passed out in my bathtub, then I noticed him. I'd been in another room, talking to the bright people. I had to have him taken away." -on meeting George W Bush at Thompson's Super Bowl party in Houston in 1974

    Buy the ticket. Take the ride.

  8. #27
    Useless is offline Senior Board Member
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    When all else fails, mbadriver bails!!

  9. #28
    kc0iv is offline Senior Board Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Useless
    When all else fails, mbadriver bails!!
    Useless mbadriver came on here a few weeks ago. Seems like he/she is trying to prove something. I just haven't figured out what. One thing is sure he/she doesn't have is a knowledge of drugs. At least not book knowledge. Maybe use?

    One thing is for sure he/she has read a bunch of OLD threads. Most were settled month ago.

    kc0iv

  10. #29
    Useless is offline Senior Board Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kc0iv
    Quote Originally Posted by Useless
    When all else fails, mbadriver bails!!
    Useless mbadriver came on here a few weeks ago. Seems like he/she is trying to prove something. I just haven't figured out what. One thing is sure he/she doesn't have is a knowledge of drugs. At least not book knowledge. Maybe use?

    One thing is for sure he/she has read a bunch of OLD threads. Most were settled month ago.

    kc0iv
    Well, kcOiv,

    Let's just consider it water under the bridge. mbadriver and I have decided to leave the past in the past.

    We can spend our lives building walls, but for the most part, our efforts will be far better spent building bridges!!

    I do appreciate your support.

  11. #30
    mbadriver is offline Board Regular
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    Useless and I have agreed to disagree on this one.

    For anyone else who cares:

    DOT Testing:

    Certified by SAMHSA to meet DOT Regulations -
    5 Drug Panel for Marijuana, Amphetamines, Phencyclidine, Opiates, Cocaine
    Breath alcohol testing compliant with DOT regulations

    Non-DOT: testing for amphetamines, barbiturates, benzodiazepines, cocaine, methadone,
    methaqualone (Quaaludes), opiates, phencyclidine (PCP), propoxyphene (Darvon), THC (50 ng/ml), ethyl alcohol
    Drug testing for other substances with the option to use hair samples or urine.

    The NIDA 5

    Drug testing in the United States started to become prominent in the late 1980s with the testing of certain
    federal employees and specified U.S. Department of Transporation (DOT) regulated occupations.

    Drug testing guidelines and processes, in these areas, are established and regulated by the
    Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) which was formerly under the direction of the
    National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA). Regulations require companies that use professional drivers,
    specified safety sensitive transportation and/or oil and gas related occupations, and certain federal employers to test employees for the presence of certain drugs.
    These test classes were established decades ago and include five specific drug groups.
    They do not reflect all current drug usage patterns. For example, the tests do not include "synthetic opiates,"
    such as oxycodone, oxymorphone, hydrocodone, and hydromorphone.
    The test does include:

    1. Cannabinoids (marijuana, hashish)
    2. Cocaine (cocaine, crack, benzoylecognine)
    3. Amphetamines (amphetamine, methamphetamine, speed)
    4. Opiates (heroin, opium, codeine, morphine)
    5. Phencyclidine (PCP)

    While SAMHSA guidelines only allow laboratories to report results for their official NIDA tests,
    many drug testing labs and on-site tests also offer a wider set of drug menus.

    These tests can include synthetic opiates (oxycodone, oxymorphone, hydrocodone, hydromorphone),
    benzodiazepines (Valium, Xanax, Klonopin, Restoril), meperidine (Demerol), fentanyl (Duragesic),
    propoxyphene (Darvocet), methadone and barbiturates (Butalbital, Phenobarbital).
    Hallucinogens other than cannabis and PCP are rarely tested for and can include mushrooms (psilocybin),
    LSD, and peyote (mescaline).
    Once a drug screen is positive, a confirmation test is usually done by Gas Chromatography Mass Spectrometry (GCMS).

    The only conclusion is DOT testing is SAMSHA Certified. SAMSHA guideline ONLY ALLOW the reporting of Official NIDA tests. Testing for "synthetics" is not an official NIDA test and will not be reported.

    You can go into your DOT pre-employment or random high as a kite on synthetics. The results WILL NOT BE REPORTED because they are not SAMSHA Certified NIDA test results.

    When you leave the test and crash your rig they can (and will) test you for anything, e.g. NON DOT Testing.

    Now kc0iv, runs around here citing case law like a Philadelphia Lawyer. Me? Heck I'm just a dumb trucker. All I can offer ya'll is the history and regulations about a DOT 5-Panel. I found it on one of them there internets. They isn't my words, them Lawyers and other smart people in DC came up with this stuff. I's a guessin ol kc0iv is right again. Shucks. :cry:


    Quote Originally Posted by kc0iv
    Quote Originally Posted by Useless
    When all else fails, mbadriver bails!!
    Useless mbadriver came on here a few weeks ago. Seems like he/she is trying to prove something. I just haven't figured out what. One thing is sure he/she doesn't have is a knowledge of drugs. At least not book knowledge. Maybe use?

    One thing is for sure he/she has read a bunch of OLD threads. Most were settled month ago.

    kc0iv
    "He knew who I was, at that time, because I had a reputation as a writer. I knew he was part of the Bush dynasty. But he was nothing, he offered nothing, and he promised nothing. He had no humor. He was insignificant in every way and consequently I didn't pay much attention to him. But when he passed out in my bathtub, then I noticed him. I'd been in another room, talking to the bright people. I had to have him taken away." -on meeting George W Bush at Thompson's Super Bowl party in Houston in 1974

    Buy the ticket. Take the ride.

  12. #31
    Useless is offline Senior Board Member
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    [quote="mbadriver"]]

    You can go into your DOT pre-employment or random high as a kite on synthetics. The results WILL NOT BE REPORTED because they are not SAMSHA Certified NIDA test results.

    When you leave the test and crash your rig they can (and will) test you for anything, e.g. NON DOT Testing.

    Now stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

    Well, mbadriver, my days of sticking anything in a pipe and smoking it ended decades ago.......before the days of drug testing!!

    As you stated, if you go and crash your truck, they can (and will) test for anything.

    Now what precipitated this discussion was a story that I relayed about a driver who was taking Hydrocodone. (prescribed) He got into a wreck, was tested, the Hydrocodone showed up on the test, and he lost his job because of it.

    Based upon what I was told, he went through a SAP program, and later went to work as a surplus commodities collection and transport engineer. (garbage truck driver)

    Based upon your own statement, exactly what you said would happen under those circumstances DID happen.....so now, I'm trying to figure out what all the pitching and fuming was about.

    In any event, you and I agreed to leave the past in it's place, and I really don't want to get starterd up with it again.

    Peace Out!!

  13. #32
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    Sound like you might have some health issues..
    I used to do drug testing, and have never come across this.
    As for you taking Hydrocodone, Vicodin, Loratabe, Norco-- all these are the same thing, just diffrent brand names. The Hydrocodone is generic. These are not from the coco plant, they are from opioum they are opiats. So these are not your problem.
    If it was medical med, just about most stuff that ends with cain is from the coc plant. Cetacane, Lydocane etc. But you must have quit a bit to come up posotive..most of the time it will come up as traces..
    Get your body checked out, you might have some bad health issue's.

    Slimland
    You can twist perceptions
    Reality won't budge
    You can raise objections
    I will be the judge
    And the jury

    Neil Peart

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