Split sleeper berth question

[mike3fan]

I drive for 5 hours after a 10 hour break,get to shipper and go into sleeper berth for 2 hours waiting for appt.,on duty not driving for 2 hrs loading and then go into sleeper berth for 8 more hours,how many hours can I drive?

Here is my thoughts,since you usually take the time driving between the split sleeper berths and subtract from 11 and that gives you what you can drive I think I have the full 11hrs available,thoughts?

[BanditsCousin]

I drive for 5 hours after a 10 hour break,get to shipper and go into sleeper berth for 2 hours waiting for appt.,on duty not driving for 2 hrs loading and then go into sleeper berth for 8 more hours,how many hours can I drive?

You still have 9 hours to be used for "on duty" or 6 hours MORE drive time and 3 hrs "on duty". Trim your load time an hour if possible, if spent in the sleeper (napping, reading a magazine, watching TV, etc).

[BanditsCousin]

The split sleeper berth stops the clock, it doesn't extend it. The minimum is 2 hrs to split the sleeper berth, but is not limited to it. Its a good idea to log more than the remaining balance of needed sleeper berth time to make the logs look good. :wink:

[Rev.Vassago]

I drive for 5 hours after a 10 hour break,get to shipper and go into sleeper berth for 2 hours waiting for appt.,on duty not driving for 2 hrs loading and then go into sleeper berth for 8 more hours,how many hours can I drive?

You still have 9 hours to be used for "on duty" or 6 hours MORE drive time and 3 hrs "on duty". Trim your load time an hour if possible, if spent in the sleeper (napping, reading a magazine, watching TV, etc).

Nope. The 14 hour clock started when he began driving the 5 hours.

5 driving
+ 2 waiting
+ 2 unloding
__________
9 hours into the 14 hour clock

You can drive another 5 hours before you have to stop driving for an additional 2 hours. At that point, you have another 6 hours drivng time available to you.

Once you begin splitting your sleeper berth time, the only thing that will get you off of it is a full 10 hours off duty or sleeper berth.

[BanditsCousin]

Rev, he went into the sleeper for 2 hrs waiting (I'm assuming he logged it in the sleeper). He did spend 2 hrs "on duty" during the load (which I assume is logged as on-duty).

5 hrs (driving)
2 hrs (loading-on duty)
2 hrs (sleeper berth-waiting to be loaded)
___________________
7 hrs worked

remaining hours- 14 -7 = 7hrs (6 can be used for driving)

If he "trimmed" the load time on duty, he could free up some more time, or bank it for the rest of the week :wink:

edit: he does not have 9 more hours, as stated originally stated. I dunno where or how i got that figure

[Rev.Vassago]

Rev, he went into the sleeper for 2 hrs waiting (I'm assuming he logged it in the sleeper). He did spend 2 hrs "on duty" during the load (which I assume is logged as on-duty).

5 hrs (driving)
2 hrs (loading-on duty)
2 hrs (sleeper berth-waiting to be loaded)
___________________
7 hrs worked

remaining hours- 14 -7 = 7hrs (6 can be used for driving)

If he "trimmed" the load time on duty, he could free up some more time, or bank it for the rest of the week :wink:

edit: he does not have 9 more hours, as stated originally stated. I dunno where or how i got that figure

The 14 hour clock DOES NOT STOP for that 2 hours he spent in the sleeper berth. The only thing that stops the 14 hour clock is 8 hours or more in the sleeper berth. Therefore, it must be counted in the 14 hour clock:

5 driving
2 sleeper
2 unloading
_________
9 hours used up on the 14 hour clock.

After the 8 hours in the sleeper berth, he has 5 hours remaining before the 14 hour clock expires, which can be spent driving. At that point, he must stop for 2 hours:

5 driving
2 sleeper
_______
7 hours used up on the 14 hour clock.

At that point, he can drive an additional 6 hours, at which point the 11 hour clock is used up. He must then stop for AT LEAST 8 hours before he can drive again.

Your mistake, BC, is that you aren't counting the 2 hours sleeper berth in the 14 hour clock. ANYTHING under 8 hours counts towards the 14 hour clock.

[BanditsCousin]

I've bnever been hit with a violaton for the 2 hr rule- i learned it from dad. I do it all the time, in fact.

I've extended my day of times by logging 2 hours in the sleeper, not exceeding 14 hrs total from my initial pre-trip, but ALWAYS catching up with 8+hrs of sleeper birth at the end of 14 hrs.

Must be a United thing? I blame it on Mayflower

[BanditsCousin]

Rev, we are both wrong.

We need Dawn to set us straight!!!

[Rev.Vassago]

I've bnever been hit with a violaton for the 2 hr rule- i learned it from dad. I do it all the time, in fact.

Dad was wrong. Anything under 8 hours doesn't stop the 14 hour clock. I just drew it out on a log to confirm that I was correct.

I've extended my day of times by logging 2 hours in the sleeper, not exceeding 14 hrs total from my initial pre-trip, but ALWAYS catching up with 8+hrs of sleeper birth at the end of 14 hrs.

The 14 hours starts when you first go on duty, and doesn't stop until 8 hours or more is logged in the sleeper berth, or OFF DUTY. This was the major change from the "old rules" (not to be confused with the "old, old rules").

Must be a United thing? I blame it on Mayflower

Bekins. Just sayin'. :wink:

[glasman2]

Rev, we are both wrong.

We need Dawn to set us straight!!!

Yup.... I was just thinking after I read the topic "oh god ... here goes another one"

[golfhobo]

I drive for 5 hours after a 10 hour break,get to shipper and go into sleeper berth for 2 hours waiting for appt.,on duty not driving for 2 hrs loading and then go into sleeper berth for 8 more hours,how many hours can I drive?

Here is my thoughts,since you usually take the time driving between the split sleeper berths and subtract from 11 and that gives you what you can drive I think I have the full 11hrs available,thoughts?

Mike3fan: I KNOW that everyone else who has posted here will argue with me, but YOU ARE RIGHT!

You still have your full 11 hours driving time. However, the 2 hours loading time WILL count against your 14 hour clock, so you only have 12 hours left to drive the 11.

I will NOT defend my position tonight, those who THINK they know the rules better than I, can assail me all they want. But, as usual, they are NOT listening to the facts as you've posted them, and are bent on "quoting" regs, instead of "understanding" them!

Since you didn't DRIVE between your two breaks, you still have all 11 hours left to drive. Your most recent clock started AFTER your initial 2 hour break in the sleeper waiting to get loaded. The 2 hours loading are on line 4, followed by the 8 hour sleeper break. You now have only 12 hours left within which to drive ALL 11 HOURS, if you want. However, if you do so, you'll need to take a full 10 hour break to get hours back, because you will have driven the full 11. Got it?

[BanditsCousin]

Paging dawn...you have a cleanup in aisle 5!

We have 3 different views here.

[Rev.Vassago]

Mike3fan: I KNOW that everyone else who has posted here will argue with me, but YOU ARE RIGHT!

You still have your full 11 hours driving time. However, the 2 hours loading time WILL count against your 14 hour clock, so you only have 12 hours left to drive the 11.

Yes, after drawing it up again, I see where I made the mistake. The first 14 hour clock was satisfied when the 8 hour break took place. The second 14 hour clock started when he went onto the dock. 11 hours are available for driving.

I will NOT defend my position tonight, those who THINK they know the rules better than I, can assail me all they want. But, as usual, they are NOT listening to the facts as you've posted them, and are bent on "quoting" regs, instead of "understanding" them!

I haven't seen one reg quoted here.

[mike3fan]

thanks guys,I thought that the 10 hrs sleeper berth with no driving would give me 11hrs driving time,leaving now before you know who shows up and really screws it up.

[Rev.Vassago]

thanks guys,I thought that the 10 hrs sleeper berth with no driving would give me 11hrs driving time,leaving now before you know who shows up and really screws it up.

At least I only partially screwed it up.

[Bicycle Bob]

Golfhobo is correct, and to quote the regs:

395.1(g)(1)(ii)(B) Calculation of the 11-hour driving limit includes all driving time; compliance must be re-calculated from the end of the first of the two periods used to comply with paragraph (g)(1)(ii)(A) of this section.

(g)(1)(ii)(C) Calculation of the 14-hour limit includes all time except any sleeper-berth period of at least 8 but less than 10 consecutive hours; compliance must be re-calculated from the end of the first of the two periods used to comply with the requirements of paragraph (g)(1)(ii)(A) of this section.

In other words, your time available after the 2nd qualifying break (the 8 hours in the bunk) is calculated by counting forward from the end of the 2-hour break and excluding the 8-hour period.

[Dawn]

Paging dawn...you have a cleanup in aisle 5!

We have 3 different views here.

Bandit I already pm'd him. I gave him a reply that should help him understand. He was correct in his own statement he made!
He had 11 hours to drive!
His 14 would restart from the end of the 2 as Golf stated, however he had an 8 hour sleeper break so that would extend the 14 hour.

So if his 2 hour break ENDED @ 12:00 am his original 14 was up @ 2:00 pm.
Now he had the 8 hour sleeper break so now his 14 hour is up @ 10:00 pm. (the 8 hour break extended the 14 hour)
The 14 hour is just as important as the 11 hour. They both need to be figured before driving!

His driving time from 12:00 am to 10:00 pm can not total more than 11 hours until he gets a 2 hour break!

I didn't even read half the comments I just saw you begging for my answer!

3 simple steps to figuring out when the 14 hour is up and how much driving time is available.
Always add driving time in between the 8 & 2 breaks subtract from 11 and that is how many hours you have available to drive.

[Rev.Vassago]

Paging dawn...you have a cleanup in aisle 5!

We have 3 different views here.

Bandit I already pm'd him. I gave him a reply that should help him understand. He was correct in his own statement he made!
He had 11 hours to drive!
His 14 would restart from the end of the 2 as Golf stated, however he had an 8 hour sleeper break so that would extend the 14 hour.

The question has already been answered quite competenly by golfhobo, Dawn. You can go away.

I didn't even read half the comments I just saw you begging for my answer!

Apparently, you don't understand SARCASM.

3 simple steps to figuring out when the 14 hour is up and how much driving time is available.
Always add driving time in between the 8 & 2 breaks subtract from 11 and that is how many hours you have available to drive.

That is not only poor advice, but it is also HORRIBLY INCORRECT.

[Dawn]

Rev, he went into the sleeper for 2 hrs waiting (I'm assuming he logged it in the sleeper). He did spend 2 hrs "on duty" during the load (which I assume is logged as on-duty).

5 hrs (driving)
2 hrs (loading-on duty)
2 hrs (sleeper berth-waiting to be loaded)
___________________
7 hrs worked

remaining hours- 14 -7 = 7hrs (6 can be used for driving)

If he "trimmed" the load time on duty, he could free up some more time, or bank it for the rest of the week :wink:

edit: he does not have 9 more hours, as stated originally stated. I dunno where or how i got that figure

The 14 hour clock DOES NOT STOP for that 2 hours he spent in the sleeper berth. The only thing that stops the 14 hour clock is 8 hours or more in the sleeper berth. Therefore, it must be counted in the 14 hour clock:

5 driving
2 sleeper
2 unloading
_________
9 hours used up on the 14 hour clock.

After the 8 hours in the sleeper berth, he has 5 hours remaining before the 14 hour clock expires, which can be spent driving. At that point, he must stop for 2 hours:

5 driving
2 sleeper
_______
7 hours used up on the 14 hour clock.

At that point, he can drive an additional 6 hours, at which point the 11 hour clock is used up. He must then stop for AT LEAST 8 hours before he can drive again.

Your mistake, BC, is that you aren't counting the 2 hours sleeper berth in the 14 hour clock. ANYTHING under 8 hours counts towards the 14 hour clock.

Rev: The 2 hour does not extend the 14 hour clock, but he had the 8 hour break to complete the split 10! Therefore his 14 hour clock resets from the end of the 2 hour break, therefor he as an 8 hour sleeper break started within his "new" 14 hour period and has not used up any driving time. He has 11 hours to drive!

5 driving
2 sleeper
2 onduty
8 sleeper
14 resets from the end of the 2! count 14 hours after than!
Look forward from the end of the 2; if you have 8 hours in the sleeper you can extend the 14 hour by the # of hours in the sleeper.
He used no driving time in between the 8 & 2 therefore he has 11 to drive.

[Dawn]

I drive for 5 hours after a 10 hour break,get to shipper and go into sleeper berth for 2 hours waiting for appt.,on duty not driving for 2 hrs loading and then go into sleeper berth for 8 more hours,how many hours can I drive?

Here is my thoughts,since you usually take the time driving between the split sleeper berths and subtract from 11 and that gives you what you can drive I think I have the full 11hrs available,thoughts?

Mike3fan: I KNOW that everyone else who has posted here will argue with me, but YOU ARE RIGHT!

You still have your full 11 hours driving time. However, the 2 hours loading time WILL count against your 14 hour clock, so you only have 12 hours left to drive the 11.

I will NOT defend my position tonight, those who THINK they know the rules better than I, can assail me all they want. But, as usual, they are NOT listening to the facts as you've posted them, and are bent on "quoting" regs, instead of "understanding" them!

Since you didn't DRIVE between your two breaks, you still have all 11 hours left to drive. Your most recent clock started AFTER your initial 2 hour break in the sleeper waiting to get loaded. The 2 hours loading are on line 4, followed by the 8 hour sleeper break. You now have only 12 hours left within which to drive ALL 11 HOURS, if you want. However, if you do so, you'll need to take a full 10 hour break to get hours back, because you will have driven the full 11. Got it?

Golf you are correct! I will stand by when someone is correct We both come up with the same answer, only I would state after the 8 hour sleeper break you have 12 hours to get the 11 of driving in. Your math and my math does make the answers come out the same @ least in this scenerio. In this one if he stops for 1 hour 30 minutes he will not be able to finish the 11 hours and if he isn't aware how to figure the 14 hour it can cause him to get a 14 hour violation. Many drivers focus on the driving time available not the 14 hour! Both need to be figured!