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Thread: 34 Hour Restart & DOT Regs

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    danj_otr is offline Board Regular
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    Default 34 Hour Restart & DOT Regs

    The reason why I bring this topic up is because of the fact that there is a lot of chatter on the radio about issues such as the 34 hour reset rule.

    Some say, and it is what I was taught:
    If you take 34 hours off on either line 3 or 4 it is subject to a legal reset regardless of where you are located.

    Others say, and it is what I disagree with:
    You have to take your 34 hour reset at your home terminal.

    Now, as I have looked through the Regs book on HOS. I have read through a number of different issues and it appears, to me, that they are vague at best.

    Am I the only one who feels this way, and is there any publications that have the current regs that put it in a light that does not portray the law as having a gray area?
    I used to drive a Volvo 770, and I broke it. I used to drive a Volvo 780 and I broke it. I now drive a Peterbilt 379 and am trying not to break it

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    Uturn2001 is offline Senior Board Member
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    Well first off, taking 34 hours on lines 3 and 4 will get you into a bunch of trouble fast. :P :P

    Line 3 is driving and line 4 is On duty not driving. I think you meant lines 1 an 2. (at least on a standard US log book)

    (e)(2)(viii) Any period of 7 or 8 consecutive days may end with the beginning of any off-duty period of 34 or more consecutive hours.
    Not too sure what is vague about that. Says nothing about being at home or at your home terminal or anything.

    And then there is this from the FAQ's

    G-1. May a driver spend part of his or her 34-hours of consecutive off-duty time in a sleeper berth?

    Yes, provided the 34-hour period is consecutive and not broken by on-duty or driving activities.
    Seems pretty straight forward to me.

    The reason you hear so much disinformation on the Cb is two-fold. The first is people who never research anything for themselves and 2. Thos who do know better but delight in being idiots and leading everyone who will listen to them astray.

    Anyway, while I do agree that there are some FMCSA regs that can be a little confusing in and of themselves, if you take the time to look up the FAQ's and also the guidences provided for many of those regs things do become a lot more clear.
    Finding the right trucking company is like finding the right person to marry. I really comes down to finding one whose BS you can put up with and who can put up wih yours.

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    Well, first off you can't take 34 hours off on lines three or four, I'm assuming you're talking about lines 1 and 2 :wink:

    I have a book around here somewhere that I think shows it a little clearer, but I'm in the middle of packing, so god only knows which box it's in....

    But. I've taken many a 34-hour restart, and almost never has it been at a terminal, and I don't think I've ever taken it at my "home" terminal. I've had my logs looked at by DOT with no problems, and never carried a logbook violation for any company I've worked for.


    EDIT - Dangit man, I was sitting here clicking post when you said what I did :wink:
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but straps and chains excite me!" :lol: ~ Flatbedder's Credo

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    danj_otr is offline Board Regular
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    Sorry Had a blonde moment there It's been a while since I looked at a log book :?

    Yeah, all my point was to bring attention to some of the laws that are not as specific as they should be. I used the 34 hour rule because of the amount of time I hear chatter on the CB about it that's all

    Quote Originally Posted by Uturn2001
    Well first off, taking 34 hours on lines 3 and 4 will get you into a bunch of trouble fast. :P :P

    Line 3 is driving and line 4 is On duty not driving. I think you meant lines 1 an 2. (at least on a standard US log book)

    (e)(2)(viii) Any period of 7 or 8 consecutive days may end with the beginning of any off-duty period of 34 or more consecutive hours.
    Not too sure what is vague about that. Says nothing about being at home or at your home terminal or anything.

    And then there is this from the FAQ's

    G-1. May a driver spend part of his or her 34-hours of consecutive off-duty time in a sleeper berth?

    Yes, provided the 34-hour period is consecutive and not broken by on-duty or driving activities.
    Seems pretty straight forward to me.

    The reason you hear so much disinformation on the Cb is two-fold. The first is people who never research anything for themselves and 2. Thos who do know better but delight in being idiots and leading everyone who will listen to them astray.

    Anyway, while I do agree that there are some FMCSA regs that can be a little confusing in and of themselves, if you take the time to look up the FAQ's and also the guidences provided for many of those regs things do become a lot more clear.
    I used to drive a Volvo 770, and I broke it. I used to drive a Volvo 780 and I broke it. I now drive a Peterbilt 379 and am trying not to break it

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    Quote Originally Posted by danj_otr
    Yeah, all my point was to bring attention to some of the laws that are not as specific as they should be. I used the 34 hour rule because of the amount of time I hear chatter on the CB about it that's all
    Actually, if one reads the regulations without putting any personal inflection, interpretation, or opinions into the reading they are quite straight forward.

    Simply stated: 34 consecutive hours off duty, without or without sleeper berth periods....gets you a reset of your 70 hours. Doesn't matter where it occurs, you can even be hanging by your heels over a well.... :shock:

    There is an old saying that goes like this, and any military veteran will recognize it: Don't believe anything you hear, and only half of what you see with your own eyes.

    Turn the CB lawyers off.....99% haven't a clue, literally.

    What you need to do is get one of the FMCSR books that includes the "interpretations" and "guidance" sections that you do not have in the small pocketbook you have now. The book with the guidance and interpretations is what the DOT uses.... 8)
    Forrest Gump was right....and some people literally strive to prove it.....everyday. Strive not to be one of "them".... And "lemmings" are a dime a dozen!

    Remember: The "truth WILL set you free"! If it doesn't "set you free"....."it will trap you in the cesspool of your own design".

    They lost my original "avatar"....oh well.


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    danj_otr is offline Board Regular
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    Yeah, I keep the FMCSA Bible in the pocket in the drivers door for those occasional readings when I wasn't doing anything.

    You make a good point though. You have to read it for what it is. Sometimes, though, you have to wonder and that is what will get you in trouble at times!
    I used to drive a Volvo 770, and I broke it. I used to drive a Volvo 780 and I broke it. I now drive a Peterbilt 379 and am trying not to break it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skywalker
    What you need to do is get one of the FMCSR books that includes the "interpretations" and "guidance" sections that you do not have in the small pocketbook you have now. The book with the guidance and interpretations is what the DOT uses.... 8)
    I received this one in Arrow's orientation. While I like having the pocketbook sized one for ease of carry, the one with the interpretations are worth their weight in gold.



    Purchase it here
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but straps and chains excite me!" :lol: ~ Flatbedder's Credo

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    danj_otr is offline Board Regular
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    Perfect! I will get one along with the standard reading material
    I used to drive a Volvo 770, and I broke it. I used to drive a Volvo 780 and I broke it. I now drive a Peterbilt 379 and am trying not to break it

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    Quote Originally Posted by tndieselgrl
    Quote Originally Posted by Skywalker
    What you need to do is get one of the FMCSR books that includes the "interpretations" and "guidance" sections that you do not have in the small pocketbook you have now. The book with the guidance and interpretations is what the DOT uses.... 8)
    I received this one in Arrow's orientation. While I like having the pocketbook sized one for ease of carry, the one with the interpretations are worth their weight in gold.



    Purchase it here
    Hey, Thanks for posting the picture and the link!! I tried to remember the link and couldn't. It was on my old laptop that crashed :sad: I'm going through some tanker training up here in Kingsport, TN and Superior gave us all the new copy that you show in the picture here.

    These things are worth their weight in gold no doubt!! Any driver who doesn't have one leaves themselves open to being misguided or taken advantage of.

    And the beauty of this book is that it is not written in "legalese", but written in standard english.
    Forrest Gump was right....and some people literally strive to prove it.....everyday. Strive not to be one of "them".... And "lemmings" are a dime a dozen!

    Remember: The "truth WILL set you free"! If it doesn't "set you free"....."it will trap you in the cesspool of your own design".

    They lost my original "avatar"....oh well.


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    No problem! If more drivers actually understood the laws, more of us would stop making silly errors that could be easily avoided. :wink:
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but straps and chains excite me!" :lol: ~ Flatbedder's Credo

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    danj_otr is offline Board Regular
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    That is the whole point I was trying to make

    Alot of the laws that are there are not always the written the best. I have to do more looking into the laws so I can get a better understanding and so that if I run into a log violation that I know is farse, then I can have a better chance at fighting it.

    I had a 14 hour violation when I was with Swift that I was never able to clear. I had gotten stuck on 140 heading to Klamath Falls, when I had ignorantly pulled my chains off BEFORE climbing the final hill before heading into town. Of the chains I had, I had 3 break on me, and I ended up chaining up one drive and one trailer tire (2 is better than none).

    I then was towed up the hill and was told by OSP to get to the Wagon Wheel truck stop in Klamath Falls. So, under their direction, I did just that. Swift was aware of that, and after fighting with them over the issue, they still pinned me with it citing that I did not get a business card from the OSP Trooper that was there with me.

    I went over my 14 by 1 hour (I spent 3 hours stuck), and still was legal, and it was stated as so on my logs... If I would have really pushed the issue and read up on the legalities, I would not have had this issue.
    I used to drive a Volvo 770, and I broke it. I used to drive a Volvo 780 and I broke it. I now drive a Peterbilt 379 and am trying not to break it

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    NevadaJim is offline Board Regular
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    I haven't started yet but trying to bone up on the reg and logging, so bear with me on this. Can someone give a quickie explanation on what the 60/70 and 7/8 mean. I'm having a problem understanding when the 34 hours has to start. Does this mean that I'm sitting on my ass for 34 hours every week, at some point? I guess what I'm asking is what has to happen for me to be forced to sit on my thumb for 34 hours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NevadaJim
    I haven't started yet but trying to bone up on the reg and logging, so bear with me on this. Can someone give a quickie explanation on what the 60/70 and 7/8 mean.
    You cannot drive after you have accumulated 60 hours in 7 days (if the carrier does not operate 7 days a week), or 70 hours in 8 days (if the carrier operates every day of the week). This means that, even if YOU don't run every day of the week, but the carrier has trucks on the road every day of the week, you go by the 70/8 rule.

    I'm having a problem understanding when the 34 hours has to start.
    It can start whenever you want it to. It is not mandatory, but must consist of Sleeper Berth, Off Duty, or any combination of the two.

    Does this mean that I'm sitting on my ass for 34 hours every week, at some point? I guess what I'm asking is what has to happen for me to be forced to sit on my thumb for 34 hours.
    It is not mandatory, but is a way to reset your 60/70 hour clock to zero.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago
    Quote Originally Posted by NevadaJim
    I haven't started yet but trying to bone up on the reg and logging, so bear with me on this. Can someone give a quickie explanation on what the 60/70 and 7/8 mean.
    You cannot drive after you have accumulated 60 hours in 7 days (if the carrier does not operate 7 days a week), or 70 hours in 8 days (if the carrier operates every day of the week). This means that, even if YOU don't run every day of the week, but the carrier has trucks on the road every day of the week, you go by the 70/8 rule.
    That's funny, listening to the BBR's one would think 60/70 is the average speed you log going through any big city and 7/8 is what you log on line 1 or 2 when you sit in the dock for that long. :P

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    NevadaJim is offline Board Regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago
    Quote Originally Posted by NevadaJim
    I haven't started yet but trying to bone up on the reg and logging, so bear with me on this. Can someone give a quickie explanation on what the 60/70 and 7/8 mean.
    You cannot drive after you have accumulated 60 hours in 7 days (if the carrier does not operate 7 days a week), or 70 hours in 8 days (if the carrier operates every day of the week). This means that, even if YOU don't run every day of the week, but the carrier has trucks on the road every day of the week, you go by the 70/8 rule.

    I'm having a problem understanding when the 34 hours has to start.
    It can start whenever you want it to. It is not mandatory, but must consist of Sleeper Berth, Off Duty, or any combination of the two.

    Does this mean that I'm sitting on my ass for 34 hours every week, at some point? I guess what I'm asking is what has to happen for me to be forced to sit on my thumb for 34 hours.
    It is not mandatory, but is a way to reset your 60/70 hour clock to zero.
    So if I drive 69 hours in 8 days then I don't need a 34 restart? Or is there a restart every 8 days regardless. Can the restart be avoided or is it mandatory every 70 hours? I'm assuming the 70 hours means 70 hours of driving time.

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    A 34 hour reset is optional, you can take it any time. I used to take a 34 every weekend at home, regardless if I had 40 hours or 70 hours on duty time for the week.

    The 70 hour rule is a combination of all time on line 3 and 4.

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    NevadaJim wrote:

    So if I drive 69 hours in 8 days then I don't need a 34 restart?

    Might NOT, if you have hours from the first of those 8 days to carry over.

    Or is there a restart every 8 days regardless.

    NO. There is not.

    Can the restart be avoided or is it mandatory every 70 hours?

    Yes. It can be avoided by not "burning" up all your hours in less than 8 days. i.e. having some to add back into the pot.

    I'm assuming the 70 hours means 70 hours of driving time.

    NO. It is a total of lines 3 and 4 (as was said) but a violation ONLY occurs if you DRIVE past the 70 hour point.
    Now... let's start OVER, shall we?

    You cannot DRIVE if you exceed 70 hours of ON DUTY (3 & 4) in 8 days.

    There are TWO ways to get hours back. The "rolling" method is this:

    At the end of seven days, add your TOTAL hours worked 3 & 4. Let's say that comes to 65 hours. Subtract from 70, and you have 5 hours that you can DRIVE on your 8th day. You MAY work more on line 4, but then you have to add both lines together to show how much you have WORKED in 8 days.

    If this total exceeds 70, you cannot DRIVE the next day, until you get more hours back at midnight of that day.

    However, if you've NOT exceeded 70, at midnight of the 8th day, you count your total hours worked for the past 7 days including today. That means you get BACK the hours you worked on the 8th day back! Take this NEW total of 7 days worked, and subtract from 70. That is how many hours you can DRIVE the next day, provided you have not exceeded 70 hours INCLUDING all 8 days. (the 8th day back STILL counts against your 70 rule.)

    Okay.... THAT's clear as MUD! :shock: :lol: I'll come back to that!

    The RESET method is this:

    When you have come close to, or exceeded 70 hours TOTAL worktime in 8 days or LESS, you can - at anytime- begin a 34 hour reset to get ALL 70 of your hours back! Your NEW 8 day period and 70 hours begins as soon as your reset is over. [This can OFTEN be gotten by adding your 10 hour break following a day of driving/working to a 24 hour "layover."]

    Now, back to the difficult "rolling" method: You are allowed to drive 11 hours/day, right? But, NOT indefinitely! Let's use 10 hours a day. If you drive/work TOTAL 10 hours a day for 7 days.... you are maxed out. On the 8th day, you cannot DRIVE. Might as well take a 34 hour reset as to sit for 24 just to get ONE day's hours back. [And... if that day happened to be sitting waiting for a load, you might get ZERO hours back.]

    Now, if you use the method given to us by Crackaces some time ago, you can LIMIT your activities (or AVERAGE them out) to 8.75 hours TOTAL work per day. 8.75 X 8 days = 70 hours in 8 days. At midnight you will get back 8.75 hours to work or drive the next day. If you can manage your time well enough, you could keep this up INDEFINITELY without having to take a reset OR sit for a day. [MY luck, the day I get back 3 piddly hours, my dispatcher would want me to drive 11!]

    Personally, I wouldn't want to tell my dispatch that I can't make a Thursday delivery because I will ONLY work 8.75 hours a day! I THINK he will want you to "burn asphalt" and get 'er done..... THEN tell him you are out of hours and must take a reset before he dispatches you another load.

    I HOPE I have cleared this up for you. In short.... you CAN manage your time and keep running 365 days a year.... but it is not usually feasible. More likely, you will be taking 34 hour resets whenever you can get one, to get ALL your hours back.

    Just remember: 11 hours / day = 70 hours in JUST over 6 days! 14 hours / day = 70 hours in 5 days! What you gonna do for the other 3 days?
    Remember... friends are few and far between.

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    allan5oh is offline Senior Board Member
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    It's even worse for Canadian drivers, we're allowed 13 hours of driving time in Canada!

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    Quote Originally Posted by allan5oh
    It's even worse for Canadian drivers, we're allowed 13 hours of driving time in Canada!
    And the SAME 70/8 rules???? :shock:

    FINALLY!!!!

    I'm gettin SICK of getting the "banned" message that YOOPR says isn't happening!!! I posted that 6 times before I got it through!!!

    Thank GOD I didn't lose another of my LONG posts!!!! :roll: :roll:
    Remember... friends are few and far between.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golfhobo
    Quote Originally Posted by allan5oh
    It's even worse for Canadian drivers, we're allowed 13 hours of driving time in Canada!
    And the SAME 70/8 rules???? :shock:

    FINALLY!!!!

    I'm gettin SICK of getting the "banned" message that YOOPR says isn't happening!!! I posted that 6 times before I got it through!!!

    Thank GOD I didn't lose another of my LONG posts!!!! :roll: :roll:
    I have started copying my post before submitting them.
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