Log Trucks using different Logs

[yoopr]

I don't know of very many logging companies that own the property and havest the lumber.

obviously you know nothing about Logging up here or anyplace else i'm guessing even though you CLAIM(like you do on So many things) that you were a choke Setter(woopee)-You've never heard of Besse Forest Products which own many 100's of THOUSANDS of Acres-They Log it-Cut it-Haul it to mills. Nothing to do with paper mills other than they receive it.

There are many others up here like that in Timber Country, and In AK, that do this.
In AK there is Ketchikan Pulp, subsidiary of Louisiana Pacfic not to count native Indian Holdings.

I do know of logging operations that are hired by mills to haul harvested lumber from the hill to the mill.

Because yoopr and others are still on the 150 air mile radius for non-CDL drivers!

Wrong again Mr. Know it all-ALL logging truck operators are CDL holders.
Where in the world do you come up with this garbage when you know nothing about Log Hauling and then try to tell someone about it?
That's disgraceful

Being a "Choke-setter" in your "Younger days" you learned nothing except how to wrap cable around timber. Obviously nothing about the trucking aspect of it.


Wrong again "Myth-Buster"
Logging companies pay a "Stumpage Fee" and Mills have absolutely NOTHING to do with "Harvesting" it.
Once the Stumpage Bid is made the Trees are under ownership of the outfit winning the Bid.

But I always say I can hang with the big dogs and the little dogs!

Sure you can-Many things you've posted to other drivers so you are wrong more than right.

You might "Hang with the Big Dogs" but if you're not the Lead dog the view remains the Same.

[yoopr]

you have no clue on Trucking and logging operations and hauling.
Give it up
Here you go again with your "Emails"
You're more of a hindrance with you talking about things you know nothing about and get the new people on here getting their start in trouble if they listen to you.
You've probably haven't even SEEN a log truck
You're a Poser-Nothing more-nothing less

[Dawn]

Dawn.... it's all good, both you and GMAN ( and a few others ) helped me understand a couple of things today, and it's much appreciated.

Thanks glasman2. I will e-mail you the stuff on Tuesday and if you don't get it then remind me through "PM" and I will for sure Wednesday. Sunday is New Years and I may have a whapping good time and forget the anything I did this year .

HAPPY NEW YEAR

[glasman2]

Dawn.... it's all good, both you and GMAN ( and a few others ) helped me understand a couple of things today, and it's much appreciated.

Thanks glasman2. I will e-mail you the stuff on Tuesday and if you don't get it then remind me through "PM" and I will for sure Wednesday. Sunday is New Years and I may have a whapping good time and forget the anything I did this year .

HAPPY NEW YEAR

Thank You.... Pictures are worth a thousand words.
Happy New Year to you too

[Myth_Buster]

I guess good free help is hard to find. Yoopr, if you would learn how to separate previous posts from your posts it would make things easier to understand:

MB said:

I don't know of very many logging companies that own the property and havest the lumber.

With a rapid response from yoopr of:

obviously you know nothing about Logging up here or anyplace else i'm guessing even though you CLAIM(like you do on So many things) that you were a choke Setter(woopee)-You've never heard of Besse Forest Products which own many 100's of THOUSANDS of Acres-They Log it-Cut it-Haul it to mills. Nothing to do with paper mills other than they receive it.

Yes yoopr the mills cut the lumber and send the lumber out to different customers based on the grade of the lumber. Yes and how many outside companies are hired to haul the lumber when Besse's fleet cannot handle all of the work?

yoopr continues:

There are many others up here like that in Timber Country, and In AK, that do this.
In AK there is Ketchikan Pulp, subsidiary of Louisiana Pacfic not to count native Indian Holdings.

Native Americans have sovereign nations and are considered a government entity. Therefore, Native Americans don't count. :wink:

Question 20: Do the FMCSRs apply to Indian Tribal Governments?

Guidance: Under §390.3(f)(2), transportation performed by the Federal Government, States, or political subdivisions of a State is generally exempt from the FMCSRs. Indian Tribal Governments are considered equivalent to a State governmental entity for purposes of this exemption. Thus, when a driver is employed by and is operating a CMV owned by a governmental entity, neither the driver, the vehicle, nor the entity is subject to the FMCSRs, with the following exceptions:

(1) The requirements of part 383 relating to CMV driver licensing standards;

(2) The drug testing requirements in part 382;

(3) Alcohol testing when an employee is performing, about to perform, or just performed safety-sensitive functions. For the purposes of alcohol testing, safety-sensitive functions are defined in §382.107 as any of those on-duty functions set forth in §395.2 On-Duty time, paragraphs (1) through (6), (generally, driving and related activities) and;

(4) The accident report retention requirements of §390.15 are applicable when the governmental entity is performing interstate charter transportation of passengers.

MB says:

I do know of logging operations that are hired by mills to haul harvested lumber from the hill to the mill.

Because yoopr and others are still on the 150 air mile radius for non-CDL drivers!

yoopr not understanding the posts replys:

Wrong again Mr. Know it all-ALL logging truck operators are CDL holders.

Yes yoopr, that's why the 150 air-mile radius for logs DOES NOT APPLY.

yoopr continues:

Where in the world do you come up with this garbage when you know nothing about Log Hauling and then try to tell someone about it?
That's disgraceful

I know enough to question whether or not each driver qualifies for any farm exemption from the safety regulations. I know the topic was on interstate commerce and you discussed intrastate commerce. I know you fail to read the questions and look up the rules instead of firing from the hip on your limited knowledge of the situation. :wink:

Being a "Choke-setter" in your "Younger days" you learned nothing except how to wrap cable around timber. Obviously nothing about the trucking aspect of it.

Working for trucking companies that operated logging trucks I know that the trucking companies were paid ton mile for the logs or were paid to harvest the logs and transport them to the mill. The trees are harvested from dense forest owned by the National Park Service or harvested from burnt forest owned by the National Park Service. I know some logging operation called the NPS employee "Piss Willy" because they often allowed logger to only cut the smallest trees.

The trucking aspect is not different than any other operation. Either the carrier is a private not for hire, authorized for hire transporting exempt commodities, or maybe a farmer. But on a national level I'm not convinced that is the case.

yoopr continues:

Wrong again "Myth-Buster"
Logging companies pay a "Stumpage Fee" and Mills have absolutely NOTHING to do with "Harvesting" it.
Once the Stumpage Bid is made the Trees are under ownership of the outfit winning the Bid.

Then depending on how state law is written they may or may not be farmers:

Question 27: Are custom harvesters who harvest trees for tree farmers eligible to be considered "custom harvesters" for purposes of the FRSI waiver from selected CDL requirements?

Guidance: If the State considers a firm that harvests trees for tree farmers to be a custom harvesting operation, then its employees could qualify for the FRSI-restricted CDLs, subject to the stringent conditions and limitations of the waiver provisions in §383.3(f).

As always be safe.

[yoopr]

again-you have no clue and what you may have learned choke setting Really makes you a expert on Intra-state logging rules and regs doesn't it?

Question 27: Are custom harvesters who harvest trees for tree farmers eligible to be considered "custom harvesters" for purposes of the FRSI waiver from selected CDL requirements?

Guidance: If the State considers a firm that harvests trees for tree farmers to be a custom harvesting operation, then its employees could qualify for the FRSI-restricted CDLs, subject to the stringent conditions and limitations of the waiver provisions in §383.3(f).

Doesn't even apply to the arguement-nice try though

"Custom harvesters" :P

You know nothing about logging or log hauling other than your "Guidance" book :P

[Papa Rick]

Man I tell you what, getting hold of the D.O.T. office in Alabama is harder than getting on American Idol.

Every time I could call them during the day all I got was the answering machine.

I called the Alabama Forestry Association and spoke with a gentleman about the 150 air mile radius, and he told me that it was in fact a 120 air mile radius.

I asked him about crossing state lines with this, and he told me that you needed to carry the FMCSA, and show them the reg in there about the 120 air mile radius.

Now for the crazy part, just when I was going to ask him where this was at, I lost contact with him, (my cell phone), and could not get back in touch with him, as it was quitting time when I lost contact.

So, now I have a question:

Does anyone know where I might find this at.

[Papa Rick]

The only thing so far that I have been able to find is this:

e) Short-haul operations.

(e)(1) 100 air-mile radius driver. A driver is exempt from the requirements of §395.8 if:

(e)(1)(i) The driver operates within a 100 air-mile radius of the normal work reporting location;

(e)(1)(ii) The driver, except a driver-salesperson, returns to the work reporting location and is released from work within 12 consecutive hours;

[yoopr]

The only thing so far that I have been able to find is this:

e) Short-haul operations.

(e)(1) 100 air-mile radius driver. A driver is exempt from the requirements of §395.8 if:

(e)(1)(i) The driver operates within a 100 air-mile radius of the normal work reporting location;

(e)(1)(ii) The driver, except a driver-salesperson, returns to the work reporting location and is released from work within 12 consecutive hours;

like I said-If you stay within the State(and like I said before check with YOUR state rules and Regs cuz states differ) record when you picked up your logs-Where you picked them up and Where you delivered them to and at what time.
You'll be fine.

[Papa Rick]

Doesn't FMCSA take authority over state rules and regs? Not for sure so that is why I am asking.

[yoopr]

Let me give you an Example for my State(Michigan).
We're allowed(Intrastate) to haul 160,000 Pounds of Logs(This includes I-75 but all roads in my area are 2 lane but I could, if there was a reason, to haul a load Downstate on I-75.

If we were to stay strictly with Federal Rules and Regs we couldn't do that.
That is the reason I suggested you contact your state(Alabama) because all states are different on Intra-state Regs.

I suppose that's clear as mud eh? :P

[Papa Rick]

Thanks, I understand what you were saying to start with. Sometimes it takes me a little longer to get it. I appreciate it.

[yoopr]

PS-I used to run LA(Lower Alabama alot at one time-not logs) but there were alot of log haulers on Highway 43, which I ran, going to the mills at Jackson, Alabama.

[Papa Rick]

Well I still have not talked to DOT yet, but did talk to a firm who specializes in initial DOT audit and the 120 mile rule for Alabama.

They are putting the information in the mail today, and will post more when I get it and figure it out.

[yoopr]

Well I still have not talked to DOT yet, but did talk to a firm who specializes in initial DOT audit and the 120 mile rule for Alabama.

They are putting the information in the mail today, and will post more when I get it and figure it out.

Are you anywhere near Hwy 43 or Jackson or you up by Huntsville? There's alot of Log haulers on that road-Why don't you talk to them? There's alot of signs along that highway where they come out to the main road(43). Just drive in and ask them.

[Papa Rick]

I live in Northeast Alabama, Dekalb County which borders Jackson County to the west, TN to the North, & GA to the East. The reason I am not asking other log drivers yoopr is the 5 that I have talked to all have different ways of doing the Time Sheet.

One guy told me that he has to send his to Montgomery every 3 months, and the other 4 know nothing about this?

How they do their fuel is also different. 2 log it, and 3 don't even log it at all.

2 Have the same kind of time sheet, and the other 3 were made on the computer using a spreadsheet.

When asked about what happens if DOT pulled them over to check, finally got a uniform answer: (Heck they never ask for our time sheet, they want to weigh us and check our Truck and Trailer out).

This is the reason for me trying to find out the right way to do this. I am not saying these 5 were all doing it wrong, I just don't want to find out I was doing it wrong either during a DOT Audit, or check on the side of the road.

[Dawn]

I live in Northeast Alabama, Dekalb County which borders Jackson County to the west, TN to the North, & GA to the East. The reason I am not asking other log drivers yoopr is the 5 that I have talked to all have different ways of doing the Time Sheet.

One guy told me that he has to send his to Montgomery every 3 months, and the other 4 know nothing about this?

How they do their fuel is also different. 2 log it, and 3 don't even log it at all.

2 Have the same kind of time sheet, and the other 3 were made on the computer using a spreadsheet.

When asked about what happens if DOT pulled them over to check, finally got a uniform answer: (Heck they never ask for our time sheet, they want to weigh us and check our Truck and Trailer out).

This is the reason for me trying to find out the right way to do this. I am not saying these 5 were all doing it wrong, I just don't want to find out I was doing it wrong either during a DOT Audit, or check on the side of the road.

You can't go wrong in the mean time by logging it! MHO

[Papa Rick]

Finally got the answer from the Alabama DOT!

I do not have to use a log book as long as I don't go over 100 air mile radius (118 regular miles) from my Headquarters (Home). I will use a time sheet that has:

Start Time, End Time, Total Hours, Driving Hours, Truck Number and Headquarters on it that I have to fill out.

On any given day if I go over 100 air mile radius, then I must use the log book for that day, and then go back to the time sheet when I go under 100 air mile radius.

I asked the Alabama DOT about crossing into GA & TN, as far as the reg goes, and he told me this was not a State Law, but Federal and that most all DOT and State Troopers knew this one well, especially for loggers.

I really appreciate all of the advice and information concerning this matter.

[Jumbo]

I will put in my two cents in. I have been pulled over on the state line between MI and WI (50 miles from home base) going to Michigan and coming from Michigan and BOTH the Wi and Mi dot wanted to see drivers license, registration, medical card and log book, since I was transporting a commodity across state lines.