Preventable or Non Preventable? Help!

[bmw]

Major accident here in Atlanta last week. 2 trucks collided, flames, 285 shut down and traffic diverted. Husband was driving. Went to cross some tracks and did not hit tracks or anything. Here is the problem. He had a lift gate on the back of his truck which has some sort of box under the rear by the gate. The road surface itself was graded improperly. I know this sounds weird but the best way to describe it is like the road came up and hit the box. It was the road surface itself. He did not hit a fixed object. There was not a pothole or anything. It was the grading of the asphalt. Some trucks made it fine. Right after his box hit a bed bugger got stuck there and he had nothing hanging down like my husband did. It wasn't even like a huge visible lump in the road or anything. Just weird grading. Anyway, now the company is saying the accident was preventable. My husband talked to a Georgia DOT training officer afterward and he said it was non preventable. Is it? How can my husband prove it? They want to put this on his record and suspend him for it.

[yoopr]

Sounds like something that happened to me once in Nogales, Az. when I went there to pick up produce.
To get into the Whse. you have to cross tracks and it was a pretty big inverted V to cross them. I had my Dollies cranked up as far as they would go and my dollies hit the tracks and I was going Super Slow.

If I'm understanding you correctly if I was Safety Officer with the Company I wouldn't give him a chargeable for sure and Preventable would be Doubtful.

[bmw]

Well I guess it had something to do with the level of the road. When you approached the crossing you were fine and your landing gear wouldn't hit. The way the road after was sloped and with the length of a truck, it would cause your underside to hit. If it were a four wheeler, it wouldn't have hit. It was like the truck bottomed out.

[yoopr]

Those are the types of Crossings I'm talking about.
Not engineered with Trucks in Mind

[Uturn2001]

There may be no way to prove it was non preventable in the company's eyes. Some companies take the view that all accidents are preventable unless you are legally parked and out of the truck when it occurs.

Your only hope would be to find out if the road taken was a legitimate truck route and if it was not then get a police statement saying trucks were made to take the detour. Another possible way would be to get a statement from the city saying the road is/was not graded properly at that crossing and that it was not marked for low clearance trucks to use caution.

I would not hold your breath either way.

Also if this is the only incident your husband has had in the last 3 years I would not worry too much about it. Just be sure to list it on any future driving job applications.

[Rev.Vassago]

I'm a bedbugger, and if I got stuck on a railroad crossing, you better believe it would be considered a preventable. It is up to the driver to know how his equipment is positioned in relation to the road, and where it is at all times.

[yoopr]

I'm a bedbugger, and if I got stuck on a railroad crossing, you better believe it would be considered a preventable. It is up to the driver to know how his equipment is positioned in relation to the road, and where it is at all times.

That's a pretty flip and Holier than Thou answer and She NEVER said he got Stuck on the Crossing.
Some of the Crossings in the Western States are like this one-Also one in Ohio at a "Former" Mead Corp. Plant. I think it was Chillicothe(sp).

[bmw]

Well thank you for coming to my defense on that one. In hindsight, isn't it always easy to say what we would have done in someone else's shoes?

I am talking about a major truck accident (my husband isn't the only one out there having them) between 2 trucks that set a major fire, killing several people. He was diverted and wasn't familiar with that road. As well, he only knocked off his lift box or whatever. The bed-bugger got stuck and many others prior to and after apparently had similar problems and all without seeing the situation.

I have seen many accidents where the drivers simply weren't paying attention (like 2 swiftys in a head on in a truck stop parking lot at low speed). However, I think his company is just screwing him here. All accidents can't be preventable or the words non preventable wouldn't exist. I am just wondering what constitutes non preventable and is there anything in writing anywhere that I can get my hands on that deals with grading of asphalt or road grading and preventability. I know that had he hit the rails it would have been preventable but this is crap.

Also, just found out the safety is on vacation and he got the paper today saying preventable. Well how did he go to the location and make the determination (supposedly their policy) while he is on the beach or wherever?

[yoopr]

Well thank you for coming to my defense on that one. In hindsight, isn't it always easy to say what we would have done in someone else's shoes?

I am talking about a major truck accident (my husband isn't the only one out there having them) between 2 trucks that set a major fire, killing several people. He was diverted and wasn't familiar with that road. As well, he only knocked off his lift box or whatever. The bed-bugger got stuck and many others prior to and after apparently had similar problems and all without seeing the situation.

I have seen many accidents where the drivers simply weren't paying attention (like 2 swiftys in a head on in a truck stop parking lot at low speed). However, I think his company is just screwing him here. All accidents can't be preventable or the words non preventable wouldn't exist. I am just wondering what constitutes non preventable and is there anything in writing anywhere that I can get my hands on that deals with grading of asphalt or road grading and preventability. I know that had he hit the rails it would have been preventable but this is crap.

Also, just found out the safety is on vacation and he got the paper today saying preventable. Well how did he go to the location and make the determination (supposedly their policy) while he is on the beach or wherever?

Sorry to hear that-But Unfortunately some companies like to throw stuff like that at them without Investigating.
Not telling you what to do but if it was ME I'd ask for a Face to Face with the Head of your Safety Dept.

[Rev.Vassago]

That's a pretty flip and Holier than Thou answer

No, I was just quoting the company policy for the carrier I pull for.

If I get my belly box stuck on ANY crossing, that is grounds for immediate cancellation of my contract.

Just like if I lose a trailer off my 5th wheel, no matter what the reason.

What it sounds like to me is your carrier rather than stepping up to the plate and eating this one is trying to make you eat this one. I would call OOIDA or contact your atty fast at let them send them a note to them stateing 1 multiple trucks had the same problem at the same time at this one location that day and 2 since your saftey director is mailing his job in from the beach we will request a formal hearing on this matter. I had a accident in 1998 at first ruled preventable applkeaded it then ruled non preventable due to the fact that the NY state trooper commader stated that if you presist in calling this a preventable I WILL MAKE LIFE HELL FOR YOU COMPANIES TRUCKS. I hit a end loader tore filled with cement that had been put in the middle of the road sucker weighed 3000 lbs easy.

[Myth_Buster]

(d) Disqualification for railroad-highway grade crossing offenses. Table 3 to ?383.51 contains a list of the offenses and the periods for which a driver must be disqualified, when the driver is operating a CMV at the time of the violation, as follows:

Table 3 to ?383.51

(6) The driver fails to negotiate a crossing because of insufficient undercarriage clearance.

No less than 60 days

No less than 120 days

No less than 1 year.

Part 383.51

Better see an attorney, if the conviction holds up he may be out of work for a while.

Be safe.

[yoopr]

Well that Statement of Yours makes me Really Wonder about your Truck driving Experience or Knowledge.

A "preventable" is NOT a "Conviction"

PS-The Majority of us have the "Book" so you don't have to keep on Reciteing chapter and verse with your Copy and Paste jobs.

[Myth_Buster]

Went to cross some tracks and did not hit tracks or anything. Here is the problem. He had a lift gate on the back of his truck which has some sort of box under the rear by the gate. The road surface itself was graded improperly.

Near the tracks?

I know this sounds weird but the best way to describe it is like the road came up and hit the box. It was the road surface itself. He did not hit a fixed object. There was not a pothole or anything. It was the grading of the asphalt. Some trucks made it fine. Right after his box hit a bed bugger got stuck there and he had nothing hanging down like my husband did. It wasn't even like a huge visible lump in the road or anything. Just weird grading. Anyway, now the company is saying the accident was preventable. My husband talked to a Georgia DOT training officer afterward and he said it was non preventable. Is it? How can my husband prove it? They want to put this on his record and suspend him for it.

Not real clear on details, however, it sounds like it happened near the tracks and there is talk of a suspension. Sounds like a portion of the truck hit near the RR crossing.

Feel free to edit my post, I'm sure as a moderator you can do so.

Be safe.

[yoopr]

I don't "Edit" any posts.
If the Officer at the Scene described the Incident as Non-Preventable I think he has a Pretty good case when He goes to the Safety officer of the Company he drives for.
Many companies have Review Boards consisting of Drivers and Officers within the Company and it's a bit like a Kangaroo court.
Sorry if I mis-interpreted what you're trying to say but you're making it sound like a Criminal Offense.

[bmw]

ok, i will try to clear it up. the best way to describe it is some idiot in an attempt to protect the rails graded the highway really high up around it. the way it is sloped a car can clear. a trucks length though causes it to bottom out. when you steers and drives are far past the tracks the grade is low but somewhere in the middle they made a hump. now imagine the front of your truck is low and your rear hasn't gone over the hump yet so it is the way your truck being so long is now sitting at a weird angle that causes the underbelly to scrape. like the other driver said kind of an inverted v.

[Myth_Buster]

I know of the kangaroo courts motor carriers hold regarding accident prevent-ability. I also know some carriers try and disqualify a driver from driving

Question 2: a. A motor carrier recently found a driver who had a detectable presence of alcohol, placed him off-duty in accordance with ?392.5, and ordered a blood test which disclosed a blood alcohol concentration of 0.05 percent. Is the carrier obligated to place the driver out of service for 24 hours as prescribed by ?392.5(c)?

b. Is the carrier obligated to disqualify the driver for a period of one year as prescribed by ?383.51(b) and 391.15(c)(3)(i) of the FMCSRs?

Guidance: a. Only a State or Federal official can place a driver out of service. Instead, the carrier is obligated to place the driver off-duty and prevent him/her from operating or being in control of a CMV until he/she is no longer in violation of ?392.5.

b. No. A motor carrier has no authority to disqualify a driver. Disqualification for such an offense only occurs upon a conviction.

Conviction refers to traffic citations. If a driver receives a ticket for going 65 mph in a 55 mph zone and pays the ticket via the US Mail the driver was convicted of driving 65 mph in a 55 mph zone.

Be safe.

[yoopr]

how and the world did you make the Leap to Traffic Citations when the Thread was about Scraping the Box going over railroad tracks when the Driver was Re-Routed?
MANY so-called "Preventables" aren't even worthy of a Ticket from the Police which this woman said her husband didn't even get. In Fact the Driver said the Police concerned it "Non-Preventable".

[Myth_Buster]

Right after his box hit a bed bugger got stuck there and he had nothing hanging down like my husband did.

Plus:

I am talking about a major truck accident (my husband isn't the only one out there having them) between 2 trucks that set a major fire, killing several people. He was diverted and wasn't familiar with that road. As well, he only knocked off his lift box or whatever. The bed-bugger got stuck and many others prior to and after apparently had similar problems and all without seeing the situation.

Sounds like an incident to me, one truck looses a portion of a box and another truck gets stuck. There would have to been some kind of traffic control.

yoopr says:

If the Officer at the Scene described the Incident as Non-Preventable I think he has a Pretty good case when He goes to the Safety officer of the Company he drives for.

Whereas bmw said

It wasn't even like a huge visible lump in the road or anything. Just weird grading. Anyway, now the company is saying the accident was preventable. My husband talked to a Georgia DOT training officer afterward and he said it was non preventable.

Doesn?t mean there wasn?t a citation issued at the scene.

Is it? How can my husband prove it? They want to put this on his record and suspend him for it.

Never did specify They.

yoopr says:

how and the world did you make the Leap to Traffic Citations when the Thread was about Scraping the Box going over railroad tracks when the Driver was Re-Routed?

Some people have short memories:

(d) [b]Disqualification for railroad-highway grade crossing offenses.]/b] Table 3 to ?383.51 contains a list of the offenses and the periods for which a driver must be disqualified, when the driver is operating a CMV at the time of the violation, as follows:

Table 3 to ?383.51

(6) The driver fails to negotiate a crossing because of insufficient undercarriage clearance.

No less than 60 days

No less than 120 days

No less than 1 year.

The provided section applies to disqualification for railroad crossing incidents.

MANY so-called "Preventables" aren't even worthy of a Ticket from the Police which this woman said her husband didn't even get.

Seems to me the question was is this preventable or non-preventable.

In Fact the Driver said the Police concerned it "Non-Preventable".

No, she said a Georgia Training DOT officer said afterwards it was non-preventable. If the officer wasn?t there he could have made a comment based on insufficient facts.

My husband talked to a Georgia DOT training officer afterward and he said it was non preventable.

Believe me, sometime it is necessary to make folks stop talking, and ask a few pointed questions before providing an answer. Photographs taken by drivers at accident scenes fail to have measurements and other relevant data that?s necessary to make a good judgment call.

FYI, unless a truck is rear ended, there are very few exceptions where an accident is non-preventable. Defensive driving works wonders.

Be safe.

[yoopr]

Defensive driving works wonders.

yeah I know-I've got over 3 million miles without a "Chargeable"
Not exactly talking to a kid new to the Block

You're splitting hairs with this woman's husband's Incident.
b]The driver fails to negotiate a crossing because of insufficient undercarriage clearance
You're citing chapter and verse of Regs. that don't even pertain. Who Said her Husband "Failed to Negotiate the Crossing"??

He scratched the damn box